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    Complexity, Technology, Competition, Greed, Power-Hunger, Self-Exaltation, and the Quickening.

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    orthodoxymoron

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    Complexity, Technology, Competition, Greed, Power-Hunger, Self-Exaltation, and the Quickening.

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:32 am

    Is Greed Good? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vscG3k91s58&feature=related Greed may be good - but Responsibility Rocks!

    Here is a thread on "Healthy Competition?" from AV1: http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=13299

    This thread is sort of related to my 'Lucifer' thread, and my 'Tibet, Kali, and the Trinity Goddess' thread. If one was in a perfect Garden of Eden or a Harmonious Heaven - with a Kind and Loving God in charge - what more could one want? But what if one wished to exercise their creativity, curiosity, and ambition - in forbidden ways? Something has been bothering me a lot for a long time. It has to do with why we seem to be killing ourselves with industrialization, high-technology surveillance and warfare, designer diseases, massive pollution, bitter science vs religion battles, acute-care drugs and surgery medicine instead of prevention, and running around like chickens with our heads cut off instead of smelling the roses and savoring the creation. There's a lot more to it than what I just said - and I will try to elaborate on this in subsequent posts. I'm really trying to get at why Lucifer rebelled against God (assuming that this actually did occur in some way, shape, or form). I seem to be enamored with Lucifer - to an unhealthy degree. My speculations are causing me a significant amount of mental anguish - but I'm beginning to think that a Lucifer Centered Search for Truth - might yield the clearest view of the way things really are. I have no particular animosity toward Lucifer (assuming that Lucifer actually exists) - and I simply want to try to figure things out - and eventually try to find some peace of mind. I have very little presently - and I feel a bit like Elvis Presley - who wished for a single day of peace. Sometimes I wonder if I might even be Lucifer with amnesia - or a potential Lucifer of the future. Thinking about Lucifer related subjects and issues is scaring the hell out of me. I love it in one way - but I seem to keep sliding down the slippery slope - into I know not what. The horror.

    If you can - get DVD's of 'Contact' and 'Avatar' - and watch them several times - noting especially the philosophical and theological aspects. Also - Google 'The Lucifer Effect - MIT Lecture'. This is just a start. I continue to think that unconventional and heretical theological pursuits will provide many solutions - possibly even disclosure. I continue to contemplate a harmonization of the Teachings of Jesus, the U.S. Constitution, and the Latin Mass. This may be a dead-end, and we may need to move way beyond such a historical approach, but I think there is merit in exploring this possibility - as a mental and spiritual exercise - if nothing else. I'm just rambling now. I'm concerned that society may be on the verge of getting a lot meaner and nastier. If half of what I have speculated about is true - this could cause a lot of societal problems - some of them possibly violent. Waking people up could backfire - if we're not very careful. Are we creating mass-hysteria? Should maybe 10% of the key people of the world be properly woken-up? I think I might be trying to do this in my various postings and threads. I wonder who really reads them? I do not wish to yell 'FIRE!!!' in a crowded theater. I continue to seek a top-down non-revolution - to make the world and solar system a better place. I'm too lazy, stupid, and squeamish to run in the streets with torches and pitchforks. I much prefer armchair blogging. Born to blog. The incredible blog.

    Has technology and industrialization made us better and happier people? Have any wars in the history of the universe really done anyone any real good? Why do we compete with each other? What if we stopped competing with each other? Would we have a greater or lesser chance of survival? Would the breed improve if we ceased to compete? Was it John D. Rockefeller who said 'Competition is a Sin'? I will pursue a lot of what I just said - in my other threads - but I wanted to extensively explore the words in the title of this thread - in this separate thread. Why do we need jets, trains, busses, nukes, cities, cathedrals, mansions, space-travel, etc, etc? Why can't we live in teepees or grass huts? We seem to be killing ourselves in very sophisticated and clever ways. If we destroy ourselves - then what?

    Are love and pity really signs of weakness? Are positive-thinking and self-esteem really delusions? Would a focus on responsibility result in appropriate levels of love, pity, positive-thinking, and self-esteem? A long, long time ago - I proposed a Religion of Responsibility to a well-known theologian - and he liked the idea - but I never followed-through - until now, that is.

    This general subject may be more important than you can imagine. How did a pristine solar system get so screwed-up? How do we make this solar system pristine again? How do we keep it that way? This gets right at the core of Solar System Governance and my pet Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom Solar System aka The United States of the Solar System. Once again, I don't really know if this is the correct approach, but I do know that the subject needs to be discussed extensively - rather than gravitating to the latest fad, sensation, guru, or freak-show.

    "In that vast throng are multitudes of the long-lived race that existed before the Flood; men of lofty stature and giant intellect, who, yielding to the control of fallen angels, devoted all their skill and knowledge to the exaltation of themselves; men whose wonderful works of art led the world to idolize their genius, but whose cruelty and evil inventions, defiling the earth and defacing the image of God, caused Him to blot them from the face of His creation."- 'The Great Controversy' by Ellen White.

    Did these beings, spoken of above, survive the Deluge (in Tibet perhaps?) and proceed to rule over us? Think of Ancient Babylon, Ancient Egypt, Ancient Greece, Ancient Rome, Papal Rome, the Nazi Party, and the New World Order - as being ruled over by this race. Does the shoe fit? If so - what can be constructively done? Might they be sort of like the Ori and the Goa'uld in Stargate SG-1? Could they be the equivalent of the Reptilians which Alex Collier describes? Or could they be in league with the Reptilians? Or did they CREATE the Reptilians in a Hybridization Program? Might Reptilians be the Ultimate Human/Reptile Super-Soldiers? Hallowed Be the Ori?

    How Much Philosophical, Spiritual, and Technological Trouble Might We Really Be In? Talk to Me Lucifer.


    Last edited by orthodoxymoron on Sat Oct 16, 2010 9:50 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Complexity, Technology, Competition, Greed, Power-Hunger, Self-Exaltation, and the Quickening.

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:01 pm

    Where should I post this sort of thing? Should I post this sort of thing? I posted this thread over two weeks ago - and no comments so far. It was the same way in Avalon 1 - but there are fewer people here in the Mists. My concern is not so much with the faithful folks from AV1 and MOA - but where are the other researchers from across the world? There is a fleeting window of opportunity to get this thing right - and I'm just not seeing it happen. Is there a site somewhere on the internet with tens of thousands of regular posters - who are interested in what we discuss? I'm thinking that Kali, the Jesuits, and the Alphabet Agents have me all figured out (knowing more about me than I know about myself) - and on the proper lists (probably including the Red-List) - but that very few others really notice - in a world of seven billion human beings - and goddess knows how many hybrid humanoids. The subjects are driving me crazy - but the lack of interest and response is driving me even crazier. The cumulative effect is not positive - and there really does not seem to be a bright future in whipping a dead horse (or whipping a live Whore of Babylon). I wonder if Kali is into that sort of thing? Sticks and stones may break my bones - but whips and chains excite me! What about that debate-date Kali? You bring the whips - and I'll bring the chains!
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    Re: Complexity, Technology, Competition, Greed, Power-Hunger, Self-Exaltation, and the Quickening.

    Post  TRANCOSO on Fri Oct 15, 2010 10:27 pm

    orthodoxymoron wrote:Where should I post this sort of thing? Should I post this sort of thing? I posted this thread over two weeks ago - and no comments so far. It was the same way in Avalon 1 - but there are fewer people here in the Mists. My concern is not so much with the faithful folks from AV1 and MOA - but where are the other researchers from across the world? There is a fleeting window of opportunity to get this thing right - and I'm just not seeing it happen. Is there a site somewhere on the internet with tens of thousands of regular posters - who are interested in what we discuss?
    If you want a bigger 'audience', you might try ATS (Above Top Secret), but there are an awfull lot of 'wannabe know-it-alls' posting there, & I doubt you'll get the response you're hoping for.

    Those who speak, do not know & those who know, do not speak.

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    Re: Complexity, Technology, Competition, Greed, Power-Hunger, Self-Exaltation, and the Quickening.

    Post  Carol on Fri Oct 15, 2010 10:52 pm

    OXY, I love your posts and just have been swamped as I have a self-imposed deadline to get my book completed by the end of the month so a lot of time is writing.. your information is invaluable as you have done a lot of excellent research which is important.. I think our numbers will continue to increase but if you are looking for numbers.. you can always post at www.godlikeproductions.com Personally, I don't post there anymore because this forum is like the cream of the crop of what one would have to wade through at GLP to find good info. Our numbers are small and I see us growing. It's not like AV but we do have a very nice international membership so the word does go out. I have friends in South America, New Zealand, Australia, Japan, all throughout Europe and the US who visit here. Many people prefer reading as they are in the learning mode. You are the expert with what you know because you are the one who did the research. Please don't get discourage.. although I've been feeling that way myself this week as if I'm just dropping info into a black hole with no feedback myself. This tends to happen when others are busy... and this is a very busy time of year for many.

    I also remember when AV1 went subscription and with a membership of over 6000 only 20 or 30 people were online posting if that many for a very long time, months. I know other sites that the same thing has happened where there membership is in the thousands and only a handfull of people post. I think there is another trend FACEBOOK that has taken these people away from forums so you may want to consider getting your info out via that outlet as well.

    Hang in there bro. I love you

    I would also like to add that Lucifer has dominion over earth and the goal was to gather as many souls away from god to himself that he could. This in part is the reason for the industrializaton of nations and the loss of connectedness to one's soul where money becomes god. A false god. Much of humanity that is conditioned by the media are subjected the messages of Lucifer where murder is okay, pollution is okay, chaos is okay, proverty is okay, being greedy is okay and it is illegal to even post the 10 commandments or have prayer in schools. What you see are numerous situations being provide by the Luciferien element to divert souls into his camp. Lucifer is in competition with god. God is not in comptition with anyone ... so what happened here.

    Other issues also have to do with mixed starseed DNA with human DNA and what the super wave will do once it gets here.. which will have a massive positive effect as it will activate the junk DNA along with the jump in intelligence by humans among other things. Lucifer wants to keep people asleep so he can continue his gathering of souls while the sons of light (which also include extraterrestrials from other places step in to help humanity make this leap in consciousness. Yet one must keep in mind it is an individual choice as each person will choose for him or herself to go with the lambs or go with the goats. This is very complex.


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    With deepest respect ~ Aloha & Mahalo, Carol
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    Re: Complexity, Technology, Competition, Greed, Power-Hunger, Self-Exaltation, and the Quickening.

    Post  TRANCOSO on Sat Oct 16, 2010 4:36 am

    Carol wrote: Lucifer wants to keep people asleep...
    Carol, people keep themselves asleep.

    We live in an age where all the information you can think of, is available on the WWW.

    Every individual makes his own choises in life.
    Some choose to use their pc to watch porn, play games, or chat, others learn to develop, start digging & the deeper they dig, the more confused they become.

    Life is about asking questions,
    not about knowing the answer.

    It's about integrity - first, & loyalty.
    It's about trust.

    It's about what happens, not about what should have happened.
    What should have happened, tens of thousands of years ago,
    didn't happen by chance, but by design.

    In the movie 'Highlander 1', the Immortals chopped eachothers head off, at every chance they were offered.
    Everywhere, except in a church.
    That was neutral ground.

    Earth is to aliens, what the church was for the Immortals.
    Neutral ground.

    And we are an ongoing experiment.
    And when the experiment tends to go seriously & dangerously wrong, it is descided to wipe us - humans - off, of the earth and start from scratch.

    Any human being who thinks s(he) can escape that 'destiny' by collaborating with alien fractions, is braindead & deluded.

    At best they see us as chimpansees.

    Look how humans deal with the animal world, & you get the picture of how much contemt 'they' have for us.

    And yes, some are benevolent - 'the park rangers', but we don't play a serious role in the socio-political structure of the planetairy universe.

    We are pets as best & cattle if you happen to be in the wrong place, at the wrong time.

    Heaven is not a 'place' ("where nothing ever happens").
    In the beginning 'heaven' was spelled like this: havefun.

    The meaning of life?
    To go to havefun.

    "Havefun? HAVEFUN?! No f#cking way. You think it's fun to duplicate a bible by hand? No sir! And if we have no fun, nobody will!" the Church decided.
    (Monks were the only ones who could write, in the 'Middle Ages'.)

    From then on, 'havefun' was spelled 'heaven', which was an abstract place where the sun always shines & everyting is perfect.

    And if you want to go to 'heaven', you have to kneel & bowe & obey all sorts of ridiculous laws & rules, designed to make life miserable.


    To Be & not 2b, that's the answer to all your questions, Oxy.
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    Re: Complexity, Technology, Competition, Greed, Power-Hunger, Self-Exaltation, and the Quickening.

    Post  Mercuriel on Sat Oct 16, 2010 8:54 am

    Ortho - I'm back so once I've read this Thread - I'll begin to contribute...

    My apologies Bro - The "Cancer" was designed and intended to take Me and My Wife away from Y'all...

    With that said - Not until this Avatar has moved down into Destruction and Decay will I leave My Brethren. As Hadriel (My Wife) recuperates - We are with Thee My Friend...

    Like Carol has said - Please give Me a couple more days to get comfortable again and You and I (At Least) will carry this forward.

    Wink


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    Re: Complexity, Technology, Competition, Greed, Power-Hunger, Self-Exaltation, and the Quickening.

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Sat Oct 16, 2010 9:36 am

    Thank-you Carol, Mercuriel, and TRANCOSO. You are all quite perceptive. I just keep imagining what it might be like to be a fly on the wall when people who REALLY know what's going on are deep into a several hour long discussion/debate regarding the most sensitive issues in the solar system - which is completely off the record - with no recordings or minutes kept. THAT would be completely different than anything we have been exposed to (I think). This might sound hokey - but I'm trying to look at things through the hypothetical eyes of the goddess who I think MIGHT have been at the center of things in this solar system - going back tens of thousands of years - with complete reincarnational recall - and massive learning. It's easy to get very lost in the process of doing this - and I don't necessarily recommend it. I think theology is central - but that the sacred texts, visions, preachers, scholars, gurus, and channeling cannot be trusted. If I wasn't so afraid of them - I would love to study with renegade Jesuits and Alphabet Agents - who I think - know more than just about anyone else. But I really don't want to venture away from the illusory security of my own home and my spyware laden PC. I once attended a lecture given by a black Jesuit from San Francisco. He was a very eloquent scholar. I just think these people are ultimately working for the wrong boss. Unfortunately, this boss may really be in the driver's seat in this solar system - whether anyone likes it or not. I used to be Christocentric - but I am toying with the possibility that a goddess created virtually all of the sacred texts and religions. This is just more speculation, of course - but thinking this way might provide insights, unobtainable in any other way. Obviously, I don't worship or venerate this hypothetical minor deity. In fact, I am down-right irreverent. I keep asking this hypothetical goddess out on a debate-date - but so far, I have received no response - and I doubt that I ever will - even if they do actually exist.

    Back to the subject at hand - the words in the title of this thread are so central and far-reaching - but It takes a lot of hard mental work to really get some productive thought processes going which involve all of these words. I think that RESPONSIBILITY tempers and qualifies each word - such that they all become constructive in nature. Art Bell has said a lot about 'The Quickening'. IRRESPONSIBILITY seems to be the major culprit in the melt-down and destruction of our civilization. Once again - the movie 'Contact' contains a lot of food for thought regarding the words under consideration.

    I think we may have to be hard-driving Illuminati-types - but without the corruption and creepy ritual rubbish. Are touchy-feely types going to save the world? I've been way, way too easy-going, accomodating, and gullible in my life - and I have paid a terrible price for not being more aggressive. If we sing kumbaya - the rich and powerful are going to keep right on observing the golden-rule (He who has the gold - RULES). How do we achieve a proper balance of exoteric/esoteric, cooperation/competition, etc/etc?


    Last edited by orthodoxymoron on Sun Oct 17, 2010 2:21 pm; edited 4 times in total
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    Re: Complexity, Technology, Competition, Greed, Power-Hunger, Self-Exaltation, and the Quickening.

    Post  Mercuriel on Sun Oct 17, 2010 11:59 am

    Oxy - I love the Questions You ask because as You ask - You fulfill a Cosmic Law - The Law of Allowance - And through that I AM able to answer It in this Format without Violating another's Free-will in doing so (This I can explain later as in the Law Of Allowance and the Law Of Confusion). All can then see It and the Knowledge moves outward in Expansion as It was meant to do.

    The Thing is that Your Questions are Encyclopedial in nature and require a great deal of explanation so as to flesh out the Answer and display It properly for Discernment. This is Awesome and I would not have You be any other way but due to that and the fact that You ask so many questions in Your Threads that Its like a machine gun of Questions - I have to take them one at a time and tackle them for You that way. Again do not change or see that I am deriding this facet of You as an Aspect - I Love It. I merely point It out and so with that said in order to respect You and give You the Answers You seek - I MUST answer Your Questions one at a time.

    So - Lets look at the first Question You've asked above...

    Q - I'm really trying to get at why Lucifer rebelled against God (assuming that this actually did occur in some way, shape, or form). I seem to be enamored with Lucifer - to an unhealthy degree. My speculations are causing me a significant amount of mental anguish - but I'm beginning to think that a Lucifer Centered Search for Truth - might yield the clearest view of the way things really are. I have no particular animosity toward Lucifer (assuming that Lucifer actually exists) - and I simply want to try to figure things out - and eventually try to find some peace of mind.

    A - Lucifer (Lucifer has many Names (Mehabone and Jabulon to name two but Lucifer will suffice)) was created Perfect and by being created Perfect - Was thought to be Infallible. Not only by others - But also by Lucifer as well. As Free-will is something that All Beings have - So too does Lucifer have Free-will.

    Lucifer thought Mind to be Infallible and this was a trait that Lucifer was reknowned for - That being acute Intelligence. He centered on that as a Mantra if You will - That being that "Mind is Infallible" - And this is where Lucifer and the rest of the Fallen (The 72 Powers and Principlaties / The 72 Ineffable Names of God) began Their long descent through the Densities.

    Simply put - The Rebellion began in the Mind of Lucifer. It was a pride of "Self" that fed Itself to the point of Self-deception. So much so that Lucifer was for a time - Actually persuaded by Self that contemplation of Rebellion was actually for the good of the System - If not for the good of the whole Universe. Once Lucifer's plans had developed to the point of Self-deception - Lucifer had gone too far to stop. At some point in this experience, Lucifer became insincere as It was realized that the Free-will of others had been Violated.

    This Evil evolved into deliberate and willful Sin (Evil is to Violate another's Free-will and Sin is to do It knowingly). That said - Lucifer has long been offered opportunity for Repentance - But alas - Only some of the Subordinate Fallen have ever accepted the proffered Mercy. In any event - We still try to bring Our Brethren Home.

    The rest fell with Lucifer simply due to this one fact. Lucifer had never been known to Lie or Deceive before the Rebellion. Now - Theologians insist and state that there were three reasons behind the Rebellion but I would say there were four.

    Reason Number One - The reality of the Prime Creator.

    Lucifer charged that the Prime Creator did not really exist and that physical Gravity and Space-Time were inherent in the Universe, and that the Prime Creator was a myth invented by the Paradise Sons to enable Them to maintain the Administration of the Universes as Viceregents for a fictitious Prime Creator in Paradise.

    Lucifer denied that Personality was a gift of the Prime Creator and Lucifer even intimated that the "Finaliters" were in collusion with the Paradise / Creator Sons so as to lay Fraud upon all of Creation since They'd never brought back a clear-cut idea of the Prime Creator’s actual Personality as it was discernible in Paradise (Havona). This is to say that Lucifer was not satisfied by Reverent desciptions of the Prime Creator as given by "Finaliters" returning from Paradise. Lucifer traded on the "Finaliter's" Reverence for Prime Creator as plain Ignorance and outright Fraud of Deception. The charge was Sweeping, Terrible, and Blasphemous coming from such a "Perfect" & Luminous Being.

    Reason Number Two - The Local System Government of the Prime Creator's Viceregent Creator Son — Michael.

    Lucifer stated that the local Systems within the Universes should be Autonomous. Lucifer railed against the right of Michael, the Prime Creator's Viceregent Creator Son in this Local System - To assume Sovereignty of this local System in the name of a "hypothetical" and or fictitious Prime Creator requiring ALL Personalities / Awarnesses to acknowledge Alignment / Connection to this unseen Prime Creator.

    Lucifer went on to further assert that the whole plan of Allegiance to a Prime Creator was a clever ruse to increase the power of the Paradise / Creator Sons as it regards Their holds on the Galaxies and Universes. Due to this Self-deception - Lucifer was only willing to acknowledge Michael as his Father but not as a Sovereign and rightful Ruler over the Local System Lucifer had been placed in Charged with and which was under Michael's purview as Viceregent Sovereign.

    Reason Number Three - The Sovereignty of the "Ancients of Days".

    Lucifer savagely denied the Sovereignty of the "Ancients of Days" - Whom Lucifer called "Foreign Potentates" - To meddle in the Adminstration of the local Systems, Galaxies and Universes.

    Lucifer denounced these "Foreign Potentates" as Tyrants and Usurpers and Lucifer vigourously urged All Subordinates to believe that the "Ancients of Days" could do nothing to meddle with the operation of complete and utter local System Rulership if only Incarnates and Angelics had the Self-determination to boldly claim Their Rights.

    Lucifer further stated that the Executioners of the "Ancients of Days" (The Supernaphim) could easily be prevented from operating in the local Systems, Galaxies and Universes if only the native Beings of these Systems would demand Their Independence. This would create a quarantine. No One in and No One out once Imposed.

    Lucifer also contended that Immortality was inherent in the System Administration - That Resurrection was natural and automatic for all Awarenesses - And that All beings would live on Eternally if not only for the arbitrary and unjust acts of the Executioners of the "Ancients of Days" (The Supernaphim = Angelics able to travel from Paradise to the Outer Creation and thereby - Anywhere else necessary to carry out Their Duties).

    Reason Number Four - The Universal plan of Ascendant Mortal training.

    Lucifer contended that way too much resources were expended upon the scheme of so intensely training Ascendant Mortals in the principles of Universe Administration. These were principles which Lucifer stated were unethical and unsound to train to Ascendant Mortals.

    Lucifer argued against the Aeons long process of preparing the Mortals of Space-time for some unknown and likley fictitious future Destiny. Lucifer described the presence of the "Corps of the Finality" as evidence that these Mortals had spent Aeons of preparation for some future Destiny of pure fiction.

    With disdain - Lucifer stated that the "Finaliters" had ended up being given a Destiny no better than to be returned to the very same humble Spheres of Influence as those of Their origins. Lucifer further maintained that the "Finaliters" had been corrupted by too much Discipline and Training and that the "Finaliters" were in Truth - Deceivers of Their Mortal fellows as They were now co-opted into the plan of enslaving all of Creation to the fables of a mythical Eternal Fate for Ascendant Mortals.

    Lucifer believed and stated as such that Ascenders should enjoy the liberty of Individual Self-determination as He had in choosing to Rebel. Lucifer just didn't beleive in the entire plan of Mortal Ascension as It was sponsored by the Paradise / Creator Sons of the Prime Creator as supported by the Infinite Spirit.

    With this Declaration of Liberty - Lucifer and the 72 Fallen launched Their orgy of Darkness and Death and here We are...

    Now onto Your Second Question...

    Harp


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    Re: Complexity, Technology, Competition, Greed, Power-Hunger, Self-Exaltation, and the Quickening.

    Post  Carol on Sun Oct 17, 2010 1:46 pm

    Does anyone have any objections if I include this thread in my book?

    As for the goddess element... I recall reading that the galactic wave is the goddess energy returning to the earth and solar system. On a more personal note.. I've seen both the Blessed Mother and Quan Yin while living on the islands. Quan Yin was at The Wood Valley Buddhist retreat center. I suspect with Quan Yin I was having reincarnational flash backs as her presence was palpable. Our Lady also appeared at another spiritual healing workshop I was at. Of course these were inner visions - however quite real to me. These are the two female entities I'm most drawn to and feel no real connection to the others, although I do have a fondness for Kali as well whose energy feels somewhat ancient to me. Both Quan Yin and Our Lady generate compassion. During one of my earlier initiations onto a spiritual meditational practice I was given the name of "Karuna" which I was told means, ocean of compassion. This was the name/word I was to use in meditation and did so for years until I experience my own heart opening. When studying the eight limbs of yoga I intuitively knew that the only doorway that fit for me to walk though was Bakti Yoga, yoga of the heart. It would stand to reason the spiritual entities I resonate with the most are Quan Yin and Our Lady.

    I also recall making a commitment to Christ as a child so the masculine element, the side showing compassion, was also something that I drawn to then.


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    With deepest respect ~ Aloha & Mahalo, Carol
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    Re: Complexity, Technology, Competition, Greed, Power-Hunger, Self-Exaltation, and the Quickening.

    Post  Mercuriel on Sun Oct 17, 2010 2:04 pm

    I'm OK with It but as Oxy is the Originator of the Thread - Its His call I guess. As far as I'm concerned however about what I've put down so far - I've no problem with It.

    sunny


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    Re: Complexity, Technology, Competition, Greed, Power-Hunger, Self-Exaltation, and the Quickening.

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Sun Oct 17, 2010 3:24 pm

    Thank-you Mercuriel and Carol for a couple of amazing posts. You can use any of my threads, Carol. I'm just casting them into the nether worlds of cyberspace. Who knows, a Pluto-Dude might be using them on a local website called plutocrat.plu! Your experiences are quite interesting. I remain conflicted regarding visions and supernatural experiences. I tend to be wary, and to distrust my own. I just add them to all of the other data. Your fondness for Kali is fascinating. I know someone who studies this sort of thing, and they also have a fondness for Kali. They had no idea that Kali is known as a goddess of destruction - which is often depicted in the artwork devoted to Kali. I am thinking of Kali as being a mixture of good and evil. I think this of all of the gods and goddesses. All of the gods and goddesses might be various expressions of a single minor deity. This is my theory - and I'm sticking to it - for now.

    Mercuriel, parts of your post seem to parallel the following 'Urantia Book' material:

    PAPER 53: THE LUCIFER REBELLION - from The Urantia Book http://www.urantia.org/en/urantia-book-standardized/paper-53-lucifer-rebellion

    53:0.1 Lucifer was a brilliant primary Lanonandek Son of Nebadon. He had experienced service in many systems, had been a high counselor of his group, and was distinguished for wisdom, sagacity, and efficiency. Lucifer was number 37 of his order, and when commissioned by the Melchizedeks, he was designated as one of the one hundred most able and brilliant personalities in more than seven hundred thousand of his kind. From such a magnificent beginning, through evil and error, he embraced sin and now is numbered as one of three System Sovereigns in Nebadon who have succumbed to the urge of self and surrendered to the sophistry of spurious personal liberty—rejection of universe allegiance and disregard of fraternal obligations, blindness to cosmic relationships.
    53:0.2 In the universe of Nebadon, the domain of Christ Michael, there are ten thousand systems of inhabited worlds. In all the history of Lanonandek Sons, in all their work throughout these thousands of systems and at the universe headquarters, only three System Sovereigns have ever been found in contempt of the government of the Creator Son.
    053:1 THE LEADERS OF REBELLION
    53:1.1 Lucifer was not an ascendant being; he was a created Son of the local universe, and of him it was said: " You were perfect in all your ways from the day you were created till unrighteousness was found in you. " Many times had he been in counsel with the Most Highs of Edentia. And Lucifer reigned " upon the holy mountain of God, " the administrative mount of Jerusem, for he was the chief executive of a great system of 607 inhabited worlds.
    53:1.2 Lucifer was a magnificent being, a brilliant personality; he stood next to the Most High Fathers of the constellations in the direct line of universe authority. Notwithstanding Lucifer's transgression, subordinate intelligences refrained from showing him disrespect and disdain prior to Michael's bestowal on Urantia. Even the archangel of Michael, at the time of Moses' resurrection, " did not bring against him an accusing judgment but simply said, `the Judge rebuke you.' " Judgment in such matters belongs to the Ancients of Days, the rulers of the superuniverse.
    53:1.3 Lucifer is now the fallen and deposed Sovereign of Satania. Self-contemplation is most disastrous, even to the exalted personalities of the celestial world. Of Lucifer it was said: " Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; you corrupted your wisdom because of your brightness. " Your olden prophet saw his sad estate when he wrote: " How are you fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How are you cast down, you who dared to confuse the worlds! "
    53:1.4 Very little was heard of Lucifer on Urantia owing to the fact that he assigned his first lieutenant, Satan, to advocate his cause on your planet. Satan was a member of the same primary group of Lanonandeks but had never functioned as a System Sovereign; he entered fully into the Lucifer insurrection. The " devil " is none other than Caligastia, the deposed Planetary Prince of Urantia and a Son of the secondary order of Lanonandeks. At the time Michael was on Urantia in the flesh, Lucifer, Satan, and Caligastia were leagued together to effect the miscarriage of his bestowal mission. But they signally failed.
    53:1.5 Abaddon was the chief of the staff of Caligastia. He followed his master into rebellion and has ever since acted as chief executive of the Urantia rebels. Beelzebub was the leader of the disloyal midway creatures who allied themselves with the forces of the traitorous Caligastia.
    53:1.6 The dragon eventually became the symbolic representation of all these evil personages. Upon the triumph of Michael, " Gabriel came down from Salvington and bound the dragon (all the rebel leaders) for an age. " Of the Jerusem seraphic rebels it is written: " And the angels who kept not their first estate but left their own habitation, he has reserved in sure chains of darkness to the judgment of the great day. "

    53:2 THE CAUSES OF REBELLION
    53:2.1 Lucifer and his first assistant, Satan, had reigned on Jerusem for more than five hundred thousand years when in their hearts they began to array themselves against the Universal Father and his then vicegerent Son, Michael.
    53:2.2 There were no peculiar or special conditions in the system of Satania which suggested or favored rebellion. It is our belief that the idea took origin and form in Lucifer's mind, and that he might have instigated such a rebellion no matter where he might have been stationed. Lucifer first announced his plans to Satan, but it required several months to corrupt the mind of his able and brilliant associate. However, when once converted to the rebel theories, he became a bold and earnest advocate of " self-assertion and liberty. "
    53:2.3 No one ever suggested rebellion to Lucifer. The idea of self-assertion in opposition to the will of Michael and to the plans of the Universal Father, as they are represented in Michael, had its origin in his own mind. His relations with the Creator Son had been intimate and always cordial. At no time prior to the exaltation of his own mind did Lucifer openly express dissatisfaction about the universe administration. Notwithstanding his silence, for more than one hundred years of standard time the Union of Days on Salvington had been reflectivating to Uversa that all was not at peace in Lucifer's mind. This information was also communicated to the Creator Son and the Constellation Fathers of Norlatiadek.
    53:2.4 Throughout this period Lucifer became increasingly critical of the entire plan of universe administration but always professed wholehearted loyalty to the Supreme Rulers. His first outspoken disloyalty was manifested on the occasion of a visit of Gabriel to Jerusem just a few days before the open proclamation of the Lucifer Declaration of Liberty. Gabriel was so profoundly impressed with the certainty of the impending outbreak that he went direct to Edentia to confer with the Constellation Fathers regarding the measures to be employed in case of open rebellion.
    53:2.5 It is very difficult to point out the exact cause or causes which finally culminated in the Lucifer rebellion. We are certain of only one thing, and that is: Whatever these first beginnings were, they had their origin in Lucifer's mind. There must have been a pride of self that nourished itself to the point of self-deception, so that Lucifer for a time really persuaded himself that his contemplation of rebellion was actually for the good of the system, if not of the universe. By the time his plans had developed to the point of disillusionment, no doubt he had gone too far for his original and mischief-making pride to permit him to stop. At some point in this experience he became insincere, and evil evolved into deliberate and willful sin. That this happened is proved by the subsequent conduct of this brilliant executive. He was long offered opportunity for repentance, but only some of his subordinates ever accepted the proffered mercy. The Faithful of Days of Edentia, on the request of the Constellation Fathers, in person presented the plan of Michael for the saving of these flagrant rebels, but always was the mercy of the Creator Son rejected and rejected with increasing contempt and disdain.
    Bible References

    53:3 THE LUCIFER MANIFESTO
    53:3.1 Whatever the early origins of trouble in the hearts of Lucifer and Satan, the final outbreak took form as the Lucifer Declaration of Liberty. The cause of the rebels was stated under three heads:
    53:3.2 1. The reality of the Universal Father. Lucifer charged that the Universal Father did not really exist, that physical gravity and space-energy were inherent in the universe, and that the Father was a myth invented by the Paradise Sons to enable them to maintain the rule of the universes in the Father's name. He denied that personality was a gift of the Universal Father. He even intimated that the finaliters were in collusion with the Paradise Sons to foist fraud upon all creation since they never brought back a very clear-cut idea of the Father's actual personality as it is discernible on Paradise. He traded on reverence as ignorance. The charge was sweeping, terrible, and blasphemous. It was this veiled attack upon the finaliters that no doubt influenced the ascendant citizens then on Jerusem to stand firm and remain steadfast in resistance to all the rebel's proposals.
    53:3.3 2. The universe government of the Creator Son—Michael. Lucifer contended that the local systems should be autonomous. He protested against the right of Michael, the Creator Son, to assume sovereignty of Nebadon in the name of a hypothetical Paradise Father and require all personalities to acknowledge allegiance to this unseen Father. He asserted that the whole plan of worship was a clever scheme to aggrandize the Paradise Sons. He was willing to acknowledge Michael as his Creator-father but not as his God and rightful ruler.
    53:3.4 Most bitterly did he attack the right of the Ancients of Days—" foreign potentates "—to interfere in the affairs of the local systems and universes. These rulers he denounced as tyrants and usurpers. He exhorted his followers to believe that none of these rulers could do aught to interfere with the operation of complete home rule if men and angels only had the courage to assert themselves and boldly claim their rights.
    53:3.5 He contended that the executioners of the Ancients of Days could be debarred from functioning in the local systems if the native beings would only assert their independence. He maintained that immortality was inherent in the system personalities, that resurrection was natural and automatic, and that all beings would live eternally except for the arbitrary and unjust acts of the executioners of the Ancients of Days.
    53:3.6 3. The attack upon the universal plan of ascendant mortal training. Lucifer maintained that far too much time and energy were expended upon the scheme of so thoroughly training ascending mortals in the principles of universe administration, principles which he alleged were unethical and unsound. He protested against the agelong program for preparing the mortals of space for some unknown destiny and pointed to the presence of the finaliter corps on Jerusem as proof that these mortals had spent ages of preparation for some destiny of pure fiction. With derision he pointed out that the finaliters had encountered a destiny no more glorious than to be returned to humble spheres similar to those of their origin. He intimated that they had been debauched by overmuch discipline and prolonged training, and that they were in reality traitors to their mortal fellows since they were now co-operating with the scheme of enslaving all creation to the fictions of a mythical eternal destiny for ascending mortals. He advocated that ascenders should enjoy the liberty of individual self-determination. He challenged and condemned the entire plan of mortal ascension as sponsored by the Paradise Sons of God and supported by the Infinite Spirit.
    53:3.7 And it was with such a Declaration of Liberty that Lucifer launched his orgy of darkness and death.
    Bible References

    53:4 OUTBREAK OF THE REBELLION
    53:4.1 The Lucifer manifesto was issued at the annual conclave of Satania on the sea of glass, in the presence of the assembled hosts of Jerusem, on the last day of the year, about two hundred thousand years ago, Urantia time. Satan proclaimed that worship could be accorded the universal forces—physical, intellectual, and spiritual—but that allegiance could be acknowledged only to the actual and present ruler, Lucifer, the " friend of men and angels " and the " God of liberty. "
    53:4.2 Self-assertion was the battle cry of the Lucifer rebellion. One of his chief arguments was that, if self-government was good and right for the Melchizedeks and other groups, it was equally good for all orders of intelligence. He was bold and persistent in the advocacy of the " equality of mind " and " the brotherhood of intelligence. " He maintained that all government should be limited to the local planets and their voluntary confederation into the local systems. All other supervision he disallowed. He promised the Planetary Princes that they should rule the worlds as supreme executives. He denounced the location of legislative activities on the constellation headquarters and the conduct of judicial affairs on the universe capital. He contended that all these functions of government should be concentrated on the system capitals and proceeded to set up his own legislative assembly and organized his own tribunals under the jurisdiction of Satan. And he directed that the princes on the apostate worlds do the same.
    53:4.3 The entire administrative cabinet of Lucifer went over in a body and were sworn in publicly as the officers of the administration of the new head of " the liberated worlds and systems. "
    53:4.4 While there had been two previous rebellions in Nebadon, they were in distant constellations. Lucifer held that these insurrections were unsuccessful because the majority of the intelligences failed to follow their leaders. He contended that " majorities rule, " that " mind is infallible. " The freedom allowed him by the universe rulers apparently sustained many of his nefarious contentions. He defied all his superiors; yet they apparently took no note of his doings. He was given a free hand to prosecute his seductive plan without let or hindrance.
    53:4.5 All the merciful delays of justice Lucifer pointed to as evidence of the inability of the government of the Paradise Sons to stop the rebellion. He would openly defy and arrogantly challenge Michael, Immanuel, and the Ancients of Days and then point to the fact that no action ensued as positive evidence of the impotency of the universe and the superuniverse governments.
    53:4.6 Gabriel was personally present throughout all these disloyal proceedings and only announced that he would, in due time, speak for Michael, and that all beings would be left free and unmolested in their choice; that the " government of the Sons for the Father desired only that loyalty and devotion which was voluntary, wholehearted, and sophistry-proof. "
    53:4.7 Lucifer was permitted fully to establish and thoroughly to organize his rebel government before Gabriel made any effort to contest the right of secession or to counterwork the rebel propaganda. But the Constellation Fathers immediately confined the action of these disloyal personalities to the system of Satania. Nevertheless, this period of delay was a time of great trial and testing to the loyal beings of all Satania. All was chaotic for a few years, and there was great confusion on the mansion worlds.
    Bible References

    53:5 NATURE OF THE CONFLICT
    53:5.1 Upon the outbreak of the Satania rebellion, Michael took counsel of his Paradise brother, Immanuel. Following this momentous conference, Michael announced that he would pursue the same policy which had characterized his dealings with similar upheavals in the past, an attitude of noninterference.
    53:5.2 At the time of this rebellion and the two which preceded it there was no absolute and personal sovereign authority in the universe of Nebadon. Michael ruled by divine right, as vicegerent of the Universal Father, but not yet in his own personal right. He had not completed his bestowal career; he had not yet been vested with " all power in heaven and on earth. "
    53:5.3 From the outbreak of rebellion to the day of his enthronement as sovereign ruler of Nebadon, Michael never interfered with the rebel forces of Lucifer; they were allowed to run a free course for almost two hundred thousand years of Urantia time. Christ Michael now has ample power and authority to deal promptly, even summarily, with such outbreaks of disloyalty, but we doubt that this sovereign authority would lead him to act differently if another such upheaval should occur.
    53:5.4 Since Michael elected to remain aloof from the actual warfare of the Lucifer rebellion, Gabriel called his personal staff together on Edentia and, in counsel with the Most Highs, elected to assume command of the loyal hosts of Satania. Michael remained on Salvington while Gabriel proceeded to Jerusem, and establishing himself on the sphere dedicated to the Father—the same Universal Father whose personality Lucifer and Satan had questioned—in the presence of the forgathered hosts of loyal personalities, he displayed the banner of Michael, the material emblem of the Trinity government of all creation, the three azure blue concentric circles on a white background.
    53:5.5 The Lucifer emblem was a banner of white with one red circle, in the center of which a black solid circle appeared.
    53:5.6 " There was war in heaven; Michael's commander and his angels fought against the dragon (Lucifer, Satan, and the apostate princes); and the dragon and his rebellious angels fought but prevailed not. " This " war in heaven " was not a physical battle as such a conflict might be conceived on Urantia. In the early days of the struggle Lucifer held forth continuously in the planetary amphitheater. Gabriel conducted an unceasing exposure of the rebel sophistries from his headquarters taken up near at hand. The various personalities present on the sphere who were in doubt as to their attitude would journey back and forth between these discussions until they arrived at a final decision.
    53:5.7 But this war in heaven was very terrible and very real. While displaying none of the barbarities so characteristic of physical warfare on the immature worlds, this conflict was far more deadly; material life is in jeopardy in material combat, but the war in heaven was fought in terms of life eternal.
    Bible References

    53:6 A LOYAL SERAPHIC COMMANDER
    53:6.1 There were many noble and inspiring acts of devotion and loyalty which were performed by numerous personalities during the interim between the outbreak of hostilities and the arrival of the new system ruler and his staff. But the most thrilling of all these daring feats of devotion was the courageous conduct of Manotia, the second in command of the Satania headquarters' seraphim.
    53:6.2 At the outbreak of rebellion on Jerusem the head of the seraphic hosts joined the Lucifer cause. This no doubt explains why such a large number of the fourth order, the system administrator seraphim, went astray. The seraphic leader was spiritually blinded by the brilliant personality of Lucifer; his charming ways fascinated the lower orders of celestial beings. They simply could not comprehend that it was possible for such a dazzling personality to go wrong.
    53:6.3 Not long since, in describing the experiences associated with the onset of the Lucifer rebellion, Manotia said: " But my most exhilarating moment was the thrilling adventure connected with the Lucifer rebellion when, as second seraphic commander, I refused to participate in the projected insult to Michael; and the powerful rebels sought my destruction by means of the liaison forces they had arranged. There was a tremendous upheaval on Jerusem, but not a single loyal seraphim was harmed.
    53:6.4 " Upon the default of my immediate superior it devolved upon me to assume command of the angelic hosts of Jerusem as the titular director of the confused seraphic affairs of the system. I was morally upheld by the Melchizedeks, ably assisted by a majority of the Material Sons, deserted by a tremendous group of my own order, but magnificently supported by the ascendant mortals on Jerusem.
    53:6.5 " Having been automatically thrown out of the constellation circuits by the secession of Lucifer, we were dependent on the loyalty of our intelligence corps, who forwarded calls for help to Edentia from the near-by system of Rantulia; and we found that the kingdom of order, the intellect of loyalty, and the spirit of truth were inherently triumphant over rebellion, self-assertion, and so-called personal liberty; we were able to carry on until the arrival of the new System Sovereign, the worthy successor of Lucifer. And immediately thereafter I was assigned to the corps of the Melchizedek receivership of Urantia, assuming jurisdiction over the loyal seraphic orders on the world of the traitorous Caligastia, who had proclaimed his sphere a member of the newly projected system of `liberated worlds and emancipated personalities' proposed in the infamous Declaration of Liberty issued by Lucifer in his call to the `liberty-loving, free-thinking, and forward-looking intelligences of the misruled and maladministered worlds of Satania.' "
    53:6.6 This angel is still in service on Urantia, functioning as associate chief of seraphim.

    53:7 HISTORY OF THE REBELLION
    53:7.1 The Lucifer rebellion was system wide. Thirty-seven seceding Planetary Princes swung their world administrations largely to the side of the archrebel. Only on Panoptia did the Planetary Prince fail to carry his people with him. On this world, under the guidance of the Melchizedeks, the people rallied to the support of Michael. Ellanora, a young woman of that mortal realm, grasped the leadership of the human races, and not a single soul on that strife-torn world enlisted under the Lucifer banner. And ever since have these loyal Panoptians served on the seventh Jerusem transition world as the caretakers and builders on the Father's sphere and its surrounding seven detention worlds. The Panoptians not only act as the literal custodians of these worlds, but they also execute the personal orders of Michael for the embellishment of these spheres for some future and unknown use. They do this work as they tarry en route to Edentia.
    53:7.2 Throughout this period Caligastia was advocating the cause of Lucifer on Urantia. The Melchizedeks ably opposed the apostate Planetary Prince, but the sophistries of unbridled liberty and the delusions of self-assertion had every opportunity for deceiving the primitive peoples of a young and undeveloped world.
    53:7.3 All secession propaganda had to be carried on by personal effort because the broadcast service and all other avenues of interplanetary communication were suspended by the action of the system circuit supervisors. Upon the actual outbreak of the insurrection the entire system of Satania was isolated in both the constellation and the universe circuits. During this time all incoming and outgoing messages were dispatched by seraphic agents and Solitary Messengers. The circuits to the fallen worlds were also cut off, so that Lucifer could not utilize this avenue for the furtherance of his nefarious scheme. And these circuits will not be restored so long as the archrebel lives within the confines of Satania.
    53:7.4 This was a Lanonandek rebellion. The higher orders of local universe sonship did not join the Lucifer secession, although a few of the Life Carriers stationed on the rebel planets were somewhat influenced by the rebellion of the disloyal princes. None of the Trinitized Sons went astray. The Melchizedeks, archangels, and the Brilliant Evening Stars were all loyal to Michael and, with Gabriel, valiantly contended for the Father's will and the Son's rule.
    53:7.5 No beings of Paradise origin were involved in disloyalty. Together with the Solitary Messengers they took up headquarters on the world of the Spirit and remained under the leadership of the Faithful of Days of Edentia. None of the conciliators apostatized, nor did a single one of the Celestial Recorders go astray. But a heavy toll was taken of the Morontia Companions and the Mansion World Teachers.
    53:7.6 Of the supreme order of seraphim, not an angel was lost, but a considerable group of the next order, the superior, were deceived and ensnared. Likewise a few of the third or supervisor order of angels were misled. But the terrible breakdown came in the fourth group, the administrator angels, those seraphim who are normally assigned to the duties of the system capitals. Manotia saved almost two thirds of them, but slightly over one third followed their chief into the rebel ranks. One third of all the Jerusem cherubim attached to the administrator angels were lost with their disloyal seraphim.
    53:7.7 Of the planetary angelic helpers, those assigned to the Material Sons, about one third were deceived, and almost ten per cent of the transition ministers were ensnared. In symbol John saw this when he wrote of the great red dragon, saying: " And his tail drew a third part of the stars of heaven and cast them down in darkness. "
    53:7.8 The greatest loss occurred in the angelic ranks, but most of the lower orders of intelligence were involved in disloyalty. Of the 681,227 Material Sons lost in Satania, ninety-five per cent were casualties of the Lucifer rebellion. Large numbers of midway creatures were lost on those individual planets whose Planetary Princes joined the Lucifer cause.
    53:7.9 In many respects this rebellion was the most widespread and disastrous of all such occurrences in Nebadon. More personalities were involved in this insurrection than in both of the others. And it is to their everlasting dishonor that the emissaries of Lucifer and Satan spared not the infant-training schools on the finaliter cultural planet but rather sought to corrupt these developing minds in mercy salvaged from the evolutionary worlds.
    53:7.10 The ascending mortals were vulnerable, but they withstood the sophistries of rebellion better than the lower spirits. While many on the lower mansion worlds, those who had not attained final fusion with their Adjusters, fell, it is recorded to the glory of the wisdom of the ascension scheme that not a single member of the Satania ascendant citizenship resident on Jerusem participated in the Lucifer rebellion.
    53:7.11 Hour by hour and day by day the broadcast stations of all Nebadon were thronged by the anxious watchers of every imaginable class of celestial intelligence, who intently perused the bulletins of the Satania rebellion and rejoiced as the reports continuously narrated the unswerving loyalty of the ascending mortals who, under their Melchizedek leadership, successfully withstood the combined and protracted efforts of all the subtle evil forces which so swiftly gathered around the banners of secession and sin.
    53:7.12 It was over two years of system time from the beginning of the " war in heaven " until the installation of Lucifer's successor. But at last the new Sovereign came, landing on the sea of glass with his staff. I was among the reserves mobilized on Edentia by Gabriel, and I well remember the first message of Lanaforge to the Constellation Father of Norlatiadek. It read: " Not a single Jerusem citizen was lost. Every ascendant mortal survived the fiery trial and emerged from the crucial test triumphant and altogether victorious. " And on to Salvington, Uversa, and Paradise went this message of assurance that the survival experience of mortal ascension is the greatest security against rebellion and the surest safeguard against sin. This noble Jerusem band of faithful mortals numbered just 187,432,811.
    53:7.13 With the arrival of Lanaforge the archrebels were dethroned and shorn of all governing powers, though they were permitted freely to go about Jerusem, the morontia spheres, and even to the individual inhabited worlds. They continued their deceptive and seductive efforts to confuse and mislead the minds of men and angels. But as concerned their work on the administrative mount of Jerusem, " their place was found no more. "
    53:7.14 While Lucifer was deprived of all administrative authority in Satania, there then existed no local universe power nor tribunal which could detain or destroy this wicked rebel; at that time Michael was not a sovereign ruler. The Ancients of Days sustained the Constellation Fathers in their seizure of the system government, but they have never handed down any subsequent decisions in the many appeals still pending with regard to the present status and future disposition of Lucifer, Satan, and their associates.
    53:7.15 Thus were these archrebels allowed to roam the entire system to seek further penetration for their doctrines of discontent and self-assertion. But in almost two hundred thousand Urantia years they have been unable to deceive another world. No Satania worlds have been lost since the fall of the thirty-seven, not even those younger worlds peopled since that day of rebellion.
    Bible References

    53:8 THE SON OF MAN ON URANTIA
    53:8.1 Lucifer and Satan freely roamed the Satania system until the completion of the bestowal mission of Michael on Urantia. They were last on your world together during the time of their combined assault upon the Son of Man.
    53:8.2 Formerly, when the Planetary Princes, the " Sons of God, " were periodically assembled, " Satan came also, " claiming that he represented all of the isolated worlds of the fallen Planetary Princes. But he has not been accorded such liberty on Jerusem since Michael's terminal bestowal. Subsequent to their effort to corrupt Michael when in the bestowal flesh, all sympathy for Lucifer and Satan has perished throughout all Satania, that is, outside the isolated worlds of sin.
    53:8.3 The bestowal of Michael terminated the Lucifer rebellion in all Satania aside from the planets of the apostate Planetary Princes. And this was the significance of Jesus' personal experience, just before his death in the flesh, when he one day exclaimed to his disciples, " And I beheld Satan fall as lightning from heaven. " He had come with Lucifer to Urantia for the last crucial struggle.
    53:8.4 The Son of Man was confident of success, and he knew that his triumph on your world would forever settle the status of his agelong enemies, not only in Satania but also in the other two systems where sin had entered. There was survival for mortals and security for angels when your Master, in reply to the Lucifer proposals, calmly and with divine assurance replied, " Get you behind me, Satan. " That was, in principle, the real end of the Lucifer rebellion. True, the Uversa tribunals have not yet rendered the executive decision regarding the appeal of Gabriel praying for the destruction of the rebels, but such a decree will, no doubt, be forthcoming in the fullness of time since the first step in the hearing of this case has already been taken.
    53:8.5 Caligastia was recognized by the Son of Man as the technical Prince of Urantia up to near the time of his death. Said Jesus: " Now is the judgment of this world; now shall the prince of this world be cast down. " And then still nearer the completion of his lifework he announced, " The prince of this world is judged. " And it is this same dethroned and discredited Prince who was once termed " God of Urantia. "
    53:8.6 The last act of Michael before leaving Urantia was to offer mercy to Caligastia and Daligastia, but they spurned his tender proffer. Caligastia, your apostate Planetary Prince, is still free on Urantia to prosecute his nefarious designs, but he has absolutely no power to enter the minds of men, neither can he draw near to their souls to tempt or corrupt them unless they really desire to be cursed with his wicked presence.
    53:8.7 Before the bestowal of Michael these rulers of darkness sought to maintain their authority on Urantia, and they persistently withstood the minor and subordinate celestial personalities. But since the day of Pentecost this traitorous Caligastia and his equally contemptible associate, Daligastia, are servile before the divine majesty of the Paradise Thought Adjusters and the protective Spirit of Truth, the spirit of Michael, which has been poured out upon all flesh.
    53:8.8 But even so, no fallen spirit ever did have the power to invade the minds or to harass the souls of the children of God. Neither Satan nor Caligastia could ever touch or approach the faith sons of God; faith is an effective armor against sin and iniquity. It is true: " He who is born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one touches him not. "
    53:8.9 In general, when weak and dissolute mortals are supposed to be under the influence of devils and demons, they are merely being dominated by their own inherent and debased tendencies, being led away by their own natural propensities. The devil has been given a great deal of credit for evil which does not belong to him. Caligastia has been comparatively impotent since the cross of Christ.
    Bible References

    53:9 PRESENT STATUS OF THE REBELLION
    53:9.1 Early in the days of the Lucifer rebellion, salvation was offered all rebels by Michael. To all who would show proof of sincere repentance, he offered, upon his attainment of complete universe sovereignty, forgiveness and reinstatement in some form of universe service. None of the leaders accepted this merciful proffer. But thousands of the angels and the lower orders of celestial beings, including hundreds of the Material Sons and Daughters, accepted the mercy proclaimed by the Panoptians and were given rehabilitation at the time of Jesus' resurrection nineteen hundred years ago. These beings have since been transferred to the Father's world of Jerusem, where they must be held, technically, until the Uversa courts hand down a decision in the matter of Gabriel vs. Lucifer. But no one doubts that, when the annihilation verdict is issued, these repentant and salvaged personalities will be exempted from the decree of extinction. These probationary souls now labor with the Panoptians in the work of caring for the Father's world.
    53:9.2 The archdeceiver has never been on Urantia since the days when he sought to turn back Michael from the purpose to complete the bestowal and to establish himself finally and securely as the unqualified ruler of Nebadon. Upon Michael's becoming the settled head of the universe of Nebadon, Lucifer was taken into custody by the agents of the Uversa Ancients of Days and has since been a prisoner on satellite number one of the Father's group of the transition spheres of Jerusem. And here the rulers of other worlds and systems behold the end of the unfaithful Sovereign of Satania. Paul knew of the status of these rebellious leaders following Michael's bestowal, for he wrote of Caligastia' s chiefs as " spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. "
    53:9.3 Michael, upon assuming the supreme sovereignty of Nebadon, petitioned the Ancients of Days for authority to intern all personalities concerned in the Lucifer rebellion pending the rulings of the superuniverse tribunals in the case of Gabriel vs. Lucifer, placed on the records of the Uversa supreme court almost two hundred thousand years ago, as you reckon time. Concerning the system capital group, the Ancients of Days granted the Michael petition with but a single exception: Satan was allowed to make periodic visits to the apostate princes on the fallen worlds until another Son of God should be accepted by such apostate worlds, or until such time as the courts of Uversa should begin the adjudication of the case of Gabriel vs. Lucifer.
    53:9.4 Satan could come to Urantia because you had no Son of standing in residence—neither Planetary Prince nor Material Son. Machiventa Melchizedek has since been proclaimed vicegerent Planetary Prince of Urantia, and the opening of the case of Gabriel vs. Lucifer has signalized the inauguration of temporary planetary regimes on all the isolated worlds. It is true that Satan did periodically visit Caligastia and others of the fallen princes right up to the time of the presentation of these revelations, when there occurred the first hearing of Gabriel's plea for the annihilation of the archrebels. Satan is now unqualifiedly detained on the Jerusem prison worlds.
    53:9.5 Since Michael's final bestowal no one in all Satania has desired to go to the prison worlds to minister to the interned rebels. And no more beings have been won to the deceiver's cause. For nineteen hundred years the status has been unchanged.
    53:9.6 We do not look for a removal of the present Satania restrictions until the Ancients of Days make final disposition of the archrebels. The system circuits will not be reinstated so long as Lucifer lives. Meantime, he is wholly inactive.
    53:9.7 The rebellion has ended on Jerusem. It ends on the fallen worlds as fast as divine Sons arrive. We believe that all rebels who will ever accept mercy have done so. We await the flashing broadcast that will deprive these traitors of personality existence. We anticipate the verdict of Uversa will be announced by the executionary broadcast which will effect the annihilation of these interned rebels. Then will you look for their places, but they shall not be found. " And they who know you among the worlds will be astonished at you; you have been a terror, but never shall you be any more. " And thus shall all of these unworthy traitors " become as though they had not been. " All await the Uversa decree.
    53:9.8 But for ages the seven prison worlds of spiritual darkness in Satania have constituted a solemn warning to all Nebadon, eloquently and effectively proclaiming the great truth " that the way of the transgressor is hard "; " that within every sin is concealed the seed of its own destruction "; that " the wages of sin is death. "
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    Re: Complexity, Technology, Competition, Greed, Power-Hunger, Self-Exaltation, and the Quickening.

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Sun Oct 17, 2010 3:34 pm

    Carol wrote:Does anyone have any objections if I include this thread in my book?

    As for the goddess element... I recall reading that the galactic wave is the goddess energy returning to the earth and solar system. On a more personal note.. I've seen both the Blessed Mother and Quan Yin while living on the islands. Quan Yin was at The Wood Valley Buddhist retreat center. I suspect with Quan Yin I was having reincarnational flash backs as her presence was palpable. Our Lady also appeared at another spiritual healing workshop I was at. Of course these were inner visions - however quite real to me. These are the two female entities I'm most drawn to and feel no real connection to the others, although I do have a fondness for Kali as well whose energy feels somewhat ancient to me. Both Quan Yin and Our Lady generate compassion. During one of my earlier initiations onto a spiritual meditational practice I was given the name of "Karuna" which I was told means, ocean of compassion. This was the name/word I was to use in meditation and did so for years until I experience my own heart opening. When studying the eight limbs of yoga I intuitively knew that the only doorway that fit for me to walk though was Bakti Yoga, yoga of the heart. It would stand to reason the spiritual entities I resonate with the most are Quan Yin and Our Lady.

    I also recall making a commitment to Christ as a child so the masculine element, the side showing compassion, was also something that I drawn to then.

    I have been somewhat skeptical regarding the 'galactic wave', 'crossing the galactic plane', 'earth changes', 'global warming', '2012', etc. I fear that they are distractions, covers, or red-herrings designed to enable a hidden-agenda. There are aspects of the goddess concept which I adore - and there are aspects which I despise. I found the 'eight limbs of yoga' to be intriguing. Doesn't Kali have at least eight limbs? Jesus seems to be a perfect blend of masculine and feminine, humanity and divinity.
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    Re: Complexity, Technology, Competition, Greed, Power-Hunger, Self-Exaltation, and the Quickening.

    Post  Mercuriel on Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:13 pm

    orthodoxymoron wrote:Mercuriel, parts of your post seem to parallel the following 'Urantia Book' material

    Yes Indeed It does but the Info I posted also comes from looking at the Mahabrata and other Esoteric or Apocryphal Works (Lesser Key of Solomon and the Legemeton - Kabbalism - Etc.).

    Are You more interested in portraying Me as a regurgitator rather than One who has thought It out after connecting all of the Dots over 30 Years of not only research but also being brought up in a Hegelian System ?

    My Answer to You was not Plagarism. Those are My Words - Not the Urantia Books'. That answer was from My Mind. Have I read the whole Urantia Book as well - Yeah - But that doesn't mean I didn't pull the above answer I gave from My Mind. Geesh - I worked for a few Hours to reply to You thoughtfully about this...

    Hmmm...

    scratch

    Simply put - I've read so much It would bore You to Tears for Me to recite the All of It. With that said - From what should I draw My answer for You if not that which I have come to know and understand ?

    I was hoping You'd have been more curious and asked further about what I'd answered but perhaps this is not Your Thrust anymore.

    So I will say this - Continue ? What is Your desire ?

    Question


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    Re: Complexity, Technology, Competition, Greed, Power-Hunger, Self-Exaltation, and the Quickening.

    Post  Carol on Sun Oct 17, 2010 5:06 pm

    Hi OXY, the dance of Kali is one of death and destruction... but without death there would be no rebirth. Death is neither good or evil, it just is. Like the seed planted in the ground, when it matures and is no longer fruitful, it dies. So I look upon Kali as an escape door from 3d and reprieve from what has gone thanatos.. staganat and decaying.

    Mercuriel, I thought what Oxy posted was something he thought similar to what you wrote that he was reminded of. You have so much detailed information that most folks have no clue about because of their own ignorance of such topics. Being a teacher of this information, as you really are, is a HUGE responsibility because it also means that the student has a long ways to go in order to catch up with you. If OXY isn't interested, I am. So please continue as I'm interested in learning about what you have to share.

    OXY, neti, neti, neti. When all is striped away, what is left?








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    With deepest respect ~ Aloha & Mahalo, Carol
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    Re: Complexity, Technology, Competition, Greed, Power-Hunger, Self-Exaltation, and the Quickening.

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Sun Oct 17, 2010 5:31 pm

    Mercuriel, parallel does not equal plagiarism. My original comment stands. Upon further examination - I do see parallels in style and content - but I don't object. I posted the Urantia material to provide somewhat of a context for this thread, and your comments. I may have to reflect on all of this for a while - before I ask specific questions regarding your answers to my questions. Your obviously hard and meticulous work is greatly appreciated.

    Carol, did you watch that video series linked in the first post of the Kali thread? It was a real eye-opener for me - and I intend to go completely through it again. I listened to George's lecture - but I was really sleepy - so I need to give it my undivided attention - before I can really evaluate it properly.

    Are the combined words in the title of this thread - a recipe for disaster? Are they a perfect storm of destruction? "Knowledge increases. Men run to and fro."
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    Re: Complexity, Technology, Competition, Greed, Power-Hunger, Self-Exaltation, and the Quickening.

    Post  Mercuriel on Sun Oct 17, 2010 6:45 pm

    Affirmative Oxy. I just wanted to be clear.

    I will stand by to answer ANY of those questions as best as I am able but I'll still work on the Second Question for tomorrow My Friend...

    Wink

    Q - Are We creating mass-hysteria ? Should maybe 10% of the key people of the world be properly woken-up ?


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    Re: Complexity, Technology, Competition, Greed, Power-Hunger, Self-Exaltation, and the Quickening.

    Post  Anchor on Mon Oct 18, 2010 7:46 am

    There are two questions there :)

    > Are we creating mass-hysteria?

    This is a bit of a loaded question. Will need to unload it.

    We create it all, but I doubt that I would characterize it has hysteria. The word Illusion would better fits my purpose - if you wont budge on that the answer is no, if you will, then it is yes :)

    > Should maybe 10% of the key people of the world be properly woken-up ?

    People don't get woken up, they wake themselves up. Many are called, but few respond.

    John..

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    Re: Complexity, Technology, Competition, Greed, Power-Hunger, Self-Exaltation, and the Quickening.

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:59 am

    Anchor wrote:There are two questions there :)

    > Are we creating mass-hysteria?

    This is a bit of a loaded question. Will need to unload it.

    We create it all, but I doubt that I would characterize it has hysteria. The word Illusion would better fits my purpose - if you wont budge on that the answer is no, if you will, then it is yes :)

    > Should maybe 10% of the key people of the world be properly woken-up ?

    People don't get woken up, they wake themselves up. Many are called, but few respond.

    John..


    Thank-you for your response Anchor. I wondered when I was going to hear from you. I guess I was thinking in terms of scaring people, rushing to judgement, making people angry, creating hatred, etc. - as opposed to informing people through entertainment, or in a round about way - without pressuring them to make major changes or sacrifices. I have seen religious leaders speak authoritatively about the immanent Second Coming of Christ - and that only those who believe and live in certain ways will be saved and rewarded - while the other unlucky souls will be punished and lost. People come forward in altar calls (many of them in tears) to receive salvation. I used to think this was a good thing - but now I think that it is sort of a mass hysteria or mind control phenomenon. We seem to be emotional and irrational in counter-productive and destructive ways. I've recently considered that it is more blessed to learn how to think, and to teach people to think - than it is to coerce them or convince them regarding anything. At this point - I think I just want to become more responsible and more response-able - and then to encourage others to do the same - and just leave it at that. Then they can wake themselves up - in their own way - and in their own time. Eventually the 100th monkey will wake-up - and a positive paradigm-shift will occur.
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    Re: Complexity, Technology, Competition, Greed, Power-Hunger, Self-Exaltation, and the Quickening.

    Post  Mercuriel on Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:54 am

    Well I have said this before and I will say it again.

    We have already achieved the 100th Monkey Syndrome (The 3 - 5% necessary for a Species Shift (2005)) and as We sit here today discussing this We are at a Positive Harvest Level of 25 to 30% and Climbing...

    The Quickening is upon Us now.

    Hyperversals are therefore ensuring We have an Opportunity to Evolve (As We have finally chosen to) and Negatives will not be able to stop It even though They are trying Their hardest.

    Now We say what Proof is there of this right ?

    Let Me just say this...

    When One is in Control and everything is going well - Does One seek more Control - Or is It rather that as One Controls things They see It slipping and try to institute more Control ?

    So with that in mind I say - What do You see TPTB doing ? Instituting more Control - Or leaving things as They are as everything is fine ?

    I see Them instituting more Control so in essence We're freeing Ourselves and They're loosing Their Grip on Us as a Species. The more Control They lose - The more They try to Control...

    sunny


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    Re: Complexity, Technology, Competition, Greed, Power-Hunger, Self-Exaltation, and the Quickening.

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Mon Oct 18, 2010 8:32 pm

    Thank-you Mercuriel. I largely agree with you - but I am uneasy with the term 'harvest'. Does this term imply that not everyone will survive or make it? I insist that everyone survives and makes it - even if some have to exist in sort of an isolated state for a while. Are the PTB tightening the noose by their own free will - or are they being commanded to do so by those who are not human as we know human to be? Are there executive orders stating that the human race shall not gain their freedom - regardless of whether they are responsible or not? Are we serving a life-sentence, with an eventual final-judgment and a final harvest/execution/sacrifice? Do the orders still stand? What would Dick Cheney say?


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    Re: Complexity, Technology, Competition, Greed, Power-Hunger, Self-Exaltation, and the Quickening.

    Post  Mercuriel on Tue Oct 19, 2010 12:29 pm

    It is more that as We approach the Shift - All Awarenesses will get Their chosen experience based on where They are as a Consciousness at that moment.

    In every great Cycle Shift - Those ready to move on are Gathered together and leap as a Soul Group to Their next experience at the Choicepoint. Those not ready to move on either by Their own choices or by remaining "Asleep" and Unawares - Will remain in that Sphere until the next great Cycle - Reincarnating and moving to the next Choicepoint then - If they are ready.

    Now in terms of a Harvest - That either being Positive or Negative - The Term is meant to be used in the sense that if there are more People "Asleep" or Unawares than Aware and Awake as the Shift hits - It would be termed a Negative Harvest as The Negatives - After the Shift would still have a great deal of Humans to suck Energy from or downright eat as food.

    A Positive Harvest means that They will have less Humans than the last Shift and If We do Our Jobs right - Hopefully They'll have none...

    Hence the Biblical reference to this time being a "Separation of the Wheat from the Chaff" and while I have some serious Issues with the current Bible and It's interpretations - It is also an Esoteric Work no doubt and should be given some considerations in reference to the discussion of Soul Harvest...

    sunny


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    Re: Complexity, Technology, Competition, Greed, Power-Hunger, Self-Exaltation, and the Quickening.

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:58 pm

    Thank-you Mercuriel. I'm working hard to reject traditional religion - and I'm working hard to reject the new age. I really don't know which way to jump at this point. Your clarifications are appreciated. Definitions and perceptions are very important. I simply do not wish to be exclusive or to exclude anyone as we journey into the future.

    Has anyone considered the distinction between 'pure science' and 'applied science'? I think 'pure science' is a good thing - but often 'applied science' is a bad thing. But how does one pay the bills with 'pure science'? Are we happier with all of our technology and industrialization? I am trying very hard to get back to my childhood scientific experience. I really enjoy going through all of the forbidden knowledge on the internet - and openly discussing it - even if it puts me on lists - and places several more interdimensional beings on my case. Maybe I'll get to meet them someday - but not today - ok?

    There are approximately 20 words which we really need to spend a lot of time thinking about. The title of this thread includes some of these. I am very apprehensive regarding the low numbers of participants on MOA. This site should have thousands of members. I'm still very suspicious regarding the closure of AV1. I continue to be mystified as to whether the PTB want us to be researching and discussing forbidden information - or not. I really and truly don't know. I don't know if I'm helping or hurting. Perhaps the PTB could care less. Perhaps no one monitors this site. Everything is a big question mark for me.

    Is it really possible to make money without hurting someone in some way? Doing the right thing seems to get in the way of making money. How does this fit in with pure and applied science? Can we be so heavenly minded that we are of no earthly good? OK - what about pure and applied science? That's what I really wish to talk about.
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    Re: Complexity, Technology, Competition, Greed, Power-Hunger, Self-Exaltation, and the Quickening.

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Sun Jun 19, 2011 5:03 pm

    Are hatred, rebellion, and deception integral aspects of competition and freedom? Please think long and hard about this question. Was whoever rebelled against God in Heaven really on the right track? Is ruling humanity by secrecy and deception really a legitimate modality of governance? Should democracy rule? Should theocracy rule? Should a theocracy rule a democracy? Should a theocracy and democracy be intertwined? What would be the proper role of God in a United States of the Solar System? Once again, what was the Original Sin? Was the Original Sin also the Unforgivable Sin? Would an idealistic United States of the Solar System need to be theocratically implemented and maintained? Would Responsibility need to be enforced with an Iron Fist? Would Responsible Freedom need to be imposed upon the inhabitants of the Solar System - whether they like it, or not? I advocate maximizing Responsible Freedom in a Context of Legitimate Law and Order. How does a civilization keep all of this in a properly buffered balance??? I continue to think that we are running out of time to get this right. I continue to think that some very powerful eyes and minds are focused upon this solar system and the fate of humanity. All is not well in this neck of the woods...
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    Re: Complexity, Technology, Competition, Greed, Power-Hunger, Self-Exaltation, and the Quickening.

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:51 pm


    "Pride and Self-Exaltation > Absolute Power > Corruption and Insanity > Anger and Jealousy > Rebellion and Violence > Glorious Victory > Changing of the Guard > Pride and Self-Exaltation > Absolute Power > Corruption and Insanity > Anger and Jealousy > Rebellion and Violence > Glorious Victory > Changing of the Guard > Pride and Self-Exaltation > Absolute Power > Corruption and Insanity > Anger and Jealousy > Rebellion and Violence > Glorious Victory > Changing of the Guard > Pride and Self-Exaltation > Absolute Power > Corruption and Insanity > Anger and Jealousy > Rebellion and Violence > Glorious Victory > Changing of the Guard > Pride and Self-Exaltation > Absolute Power > Corruption and Insanity > Anger and Jealousy > Rebellion and Violence > Glorious Victory > Changing of the Guard > Pride and Self-Exaltation > Absolute Power > Corruption and Insanity > Anger and Jealousy > Rebellion and Violence > Glorious Victory > Changing of the Guard > Pride and Self-Exaltation > Absolute Power > Corruption and Insanity > Anger and Jealousy > Rebellion and Violence > Glorious Victory > Changing of the Guard > Pride and Self-Exaltation > Absolute Power > Corruption and Insanity > Anger and Jealousy > Rebellion and Violence > Glorious Victory > Changing of the Guard > Pride and Self-Exaltation > Absolute Power > Corruption and Insanity > Anger and Jealousy > Rebellion and Violence > Glorious Victory > Changing of the Guard > Pride and Self-Exaltation > Absolute Power > Corruption and Insanity > Anger and Jealousy > Rebellion and Violence > Glorious Victory > Changing of the Guard > Pride and Self-Exaltation > Absolute Power > Corruption and Insanity > Anger and Jealousy > Rebellion and Violence > Glorious Victory > Changing of the Guard > Pride and Self-Exaltation > Absolute Power > Corruption and Insanity > Anger and Jealousy > Rebellion and Violence > Glorious Victory > Changing of the Guard > Pride and Self-Exaltation > Absolute Power > Corruption and Insanity > Anger and Jealousy > Rebellion and Violence > Glorious Victory > Changing of the Guard > Pride and Self-Exaltation > Absolute Power > Corruption and Insanity > Anger and Jealousy > Rebellion and Violence > Glorious Victory > Changing of the Guard > Pride and Self-Exaltation > Absolute Power > Corruption and Insanity > Anger and Jealousy > Rebellion and Violence > Glorious Victory > Changing of the Guard > Pride and Self-Exaltation > Absolute Power > Corruption and Insanity > Anger and Jealousy > Rebellion and Violence > Glorious Victory > Changing of the Guard > Any Questions?"
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    Re: Complexity, Technology, Competition, Greed, Power-Hunger, Self-Exaltation, and the Quickening.

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:40 am

    Have the last one hundred years been good for the people of the world? Is the environment in better shape now than it was in 1911? How many people have suffered violent injury and death from purges, exterminations, warfare, murder, and mayhem in the past one hundred years? Do drugs and surgery really make us healthier and happier? Is acute-care drugs and surgery medicine better than preventive-medicine and natural-care? Have Weapons of Mass Destruction made humanity safer and happier? Are we on the brink of extinction? Has high-technology improved the quality of life for the majority of the people of the world? Is the human race presently more responsible than in 1911? How much money has the private Federal Reserve collected in the past one hundred years? How much gold has been stolen in the past one hundred years? What is the total world-wide debt in US Dollars? Was the per-capita debt-level higher in 1911 (with all relevant adjustments)? Is most of the 'modern' high-technology really stolen ancient technology? Who do the business, political, and religious leaders REALLY take their orders from? Who REALLY rules the world and solar system? Who should rule the world and solar system?

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