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    Jonah

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    Re: Grace Cathedral

    Post  Jonah on Sun Nov 28, 2010 11:48 am

    DiVineEnvy wrote:Not to diminish either of your paths orthodoxymoron and Raven, but I would tend to agree that tantric stained glass would not fly very well at Chartres. It is my experience that we live in an age of excess. The temple, whether external or inner, is too often overwhelmed by a non-stop barrage of forms, ideas and images. A voluntary fast of the senses might be the preferred prelude to inner work.

    Dont forget sounds....

    I often dislike the music involved with meditation circles.... I can be very picky when it comes to what I would consider relaxing music... I often become distracted by how awful i think the sound of an ocean is in the middle of a room.... but thats just me....

    A fast of the senses would be ideal for some....

    But what about those who are on the other side of the coin.... For a Christian life say, how often is it that an image of the sacred feminine could become so clear in ones mind, and yet so forbidden.... Is it not a sin to feel bad about ones thoughts simply because were not supposed to...???
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    orthodoxymoron

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    Re: Grace Cathedral

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Wed Dec 01, 2010 2:51 pm

    Thank-you Jonah. I quite agree. There is a time and a place for everything - including the sound of the sea.

    So - is anything happening in San Francisco? Perhaps the United Nations cannot be reformed - and must be replaced. Or - would San Francisco be a better location for a Reformed United Nations aka The United States of the Solar System (Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom Solar System)? How would Roman Catholics react to having St. Mary's Cathedral converted into the headquarters of a new Solar System Government? How would they react to sharing Grace Cathedral with the Episcopalians? Would they fight with each other? Who would wear the pants in this proposed ecumenical experiment? Would they just stay out of each other's way? My guess is that the leadership and congregations are already pretty well acquainted with each other. If my speculations regarding the Queen of Heaven are correct (or even close) - I would guess that she would be LIVID - to say the least!! I think that ultimately, things would work out well for her, as well - but it might take a few centuries for her to calm down!!! What would Raven say?
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    orthodoxymoron

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    Re: Grace Cathedral

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:46 pm

    Winchester Cathedral http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fOIxwLUSNQ

    Six o' clock
    In the morning I feel pretty good
    So I dropped into the luxury of the Lords
    Fighting dragons and crossing swords
    With the people against the hordes who came to conquer

    Seven o'clock
    In the morning here it comes I taste the warning
    And I'm so amazed I'm here today
    Seeing things so clear this way
    In the car and on my way to Stonehenge

    I'm flying in Winchester cathedral
    Sunlight pouring through the break of day
    Stumbled through the door and into the chamber
    There's a lady setting flowers on a table covered lace
    And a cleaner in the distance finds a cobweb on a face
    And a feeling deep inside of me
    Tells me this can't be the place

    I'm flying in Winchester cathedral
    All religion has to have its day
    Expressions on the face of the Savior
    Made me say
    I can't stay

    Open up the gates of the church and let me out of here
    Too many people have lied in the name of Christ
    For anyone to heed the call
    So many people have died in the name of Christ
    That I can't believe it all

    Now I'm standing on the grave of a soldier that died in 1799
    And the day he died it was a birthday
    And I noticed it was mine
    And my head didn't know just who I was
    And I went spinning back in time
    And I am high upon the altar
    High upon the altar, high

    I'm flying in Winchester cathedral
    It's hard enough to drink the wine
    The air inside just hangs in delusion
    But given time
    I'll be fine

    Open up the gates of the church and let me out of here
    Too many people have lied in the name of Christ
    For anyone to heed the call
    Too many people have died in the name of Christ
    That I can't believe it all

    And now I'm standing on the grave of a soldier that died in 1799
    And the day he died it was a birthday
    And I noticed it was mine
    And my head didn't know just who I was
    And I went spinning back in time
    And I am high upon the altar
    High upon the altar, high
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    orthodoxymoron

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    Re: Grace Cathedral

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:13 pm

    Jesus taught mostly in nature. The most inspirational environment is nature! I believe that the Holy Spirit can best get through to us when we contemplate eternal things in nature. The best place to have church is not in church! The best church is no church! And didn’t Jesus tell us, in essence, not to go to church, in Matthew 6:5,6? He told us to pray privately, didn’t He?

    Having said that, I am torn! I love architecturally and acoustically inspiring churches! Especially while experiencing sacred music in these vast spaces! Singing the great hymns of the church with congregation, choir, organ and orchestra…as the sunlight streams through the stained glass windows is truly a mountain top experience! I believe that artistic expression and creativity are hugely important parts of life and Christianity! They lift us up!

    However, I am often troubled by the price and the pride! Is Jesus impressed? I sometimes imagine the stained glass Jesus with tears streaming down His face because of being ignored, despised and rejected by His professed followers! Would those in Darfur be impressed? Should we build more orphanages than churches? I once stood at the altar (or was it the lectern?) of a magnificent Gothic cathedral (Grace Cathedral - by the way), reading the story of the rich young ruler from a large leather-bound Bible on a golden pedestal. For a moment, I thought the Word of God clashed with the House of God! Are churches sometimes places where there is a form of godliness without the power? Where people stand, sit, bend, nod, and are politely kind to God? Also, the message and music are often determined by those with the dough…not by those in the know!

    Obviously, when it's cold, dark and rainy, it's nearly impossible to have a religious service outside! I guess we need church buildings, but we don't need jeweled, gold plated shrines, bedeviled with hideous gargoyles! We need the grand and glorious, but with sound and simple construction, so as not to become slaves to buildings and bills. Think minimalist cathedral! Was that an oxymoron? Perhaps…but sometimes I'm an oxymoron! And don't forget the soup kitchen! And please…pretty please…don’t forget to pray!

    Also, church is not for everyone! The church is not the very gate of Heaven! The Christian Church is not Salvation4Sale! At least it shouldn't be! Church may, or may not, be necessary for balanced psychology, ethics and spirituality. Sometimes church can even make things worse! On the other hand, those who have left the church have often jumped out of the frying pan and into the fire…and had their fingers burnt right up to their arm pits!

    Finally, remember what Jesus said to the disciples when they were admiring a church building...
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    DiVineEnvy

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    Re: Grace Cathedral

    Post  DiVineEnvy on Sat Dec 04, 2010 2:48 am

    orthodoxymoron wrote:...I am rewatching 'Contact'. Please watch this, and notice the philosophical and theological connection. Palmer Joss = Jesus Christ? Rachel = Mary? Mr. Haddon = Aldebaran / Gizeh Intelligence / Nazi / ?????...
    Just watched Contact again with new eyes. Thanks for the recommendation! For me, more questions than answers. Palmer's faith is possibly as profound as Rachel's contact experience, although he did not need a half trillion dollar machine for verification. I can only guess at the author's intent for Haddon's role - to me, he is more of a Daedalus figure. Overall, I am sorely disappointed that so much emphasis was placed on a mere machine as the vehicle of Rachel's epiphany. She might have gotten better mileage at Grace Cathedral(!), but perhaps it would not have resulted in as rich a cinematic experience for the masses!!

    orthodoxymoron wrote:Jesus taught mostly in nature. The most inspirational environment is nature! I believe that the Holy Spirit can best get through to us when we contemplate eternal things in nature. The best place to have church is not in church! The best church is no church! And didn’t Jesus tell us, in essence, not to go to church, in Matthew 6:5,6? He told us to pray privately, didn’t He?

    Having said that, I am torn! I love architecturally and acoustically inspiring churches! Especially while experiencing sacred music in these vast spaces! Singing the great hymns of the church with congregation, choir, organ and orchestra…as the sunlight streams through the stained glass windows is truly a mountain top experience! I believe that artistic expression and creativity are hugely important parts of life and Christianity! They lift us up! ...Obviously, when it's cold, dark and rainy, it's nearly impossible to have a religious service outside! I guess we need church buildings, but we don't need jeweled, gold plated shrines, bedeviled with hideous gargoyles! We need the grand and glorious, but with sound and simple construction, so as not to become slaves to buildings and bills. Think minimalist cathedral!...
    I am also more impressed by unpretentious, well built structures that 'sing'. Virgin nature is celebrated, but at the same time shunned by civilization. Civilization's answer is to create artifacts and rituals that mimic those mountain top experiences we freely encounter in Nature. Sometimes this can result in Art with a capital 'A'. Frank Lloyd Wright famously said, "I believe in God, only I spell it Nature."
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    lindabaker

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    Re: Grace Cathedral

    Post  lindabaker on Sat Dec 04, 2010 4:54 am

    Very interesting thread, thank you everyone!
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    orthodoxymoron

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    Re: Grace Cathedral

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Sat Dec 04, 2010 9:21 am

    Once again - I have a love/hate relationship with religion. I'm looking for a church and state situation where the two are minimalist and in harmony with each other. I just want a unified yet free solar system at peace. Unfortunately - I don't know how much baggage and karmic debt the human race really has - and who might show up here to get even - and then some. We could be on the verge of a golden age of peace and enlightenment - or we could be on the verge of a horrible extermination and enslavement. The churches and state-houses are already built - and in many cases the architecture is magnificent. I don't think we need much new construction of churches and state houses. I really wish to see this world become much more rural. I wish to see a lot of underground living, in order to help create a pristine surface environment. This is all about trying to turn this solar system into a paradise.
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    orthodoxymoron

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    Re: Grace Cathedral

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Sun Dec 12, 2010 1:35 pm

    Perhaps I need to reconsider Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom. Perhaps the true Creator God of the Universe should rule this solar system, and the rest of the universe, as he or she sees fit. I have merely been trying to determine what went wrong in this solar system, and how to fix it. Aristocracy and Theocracy really didn't seem to work historically, and it seems that powerful entities, who are not the Creator God of the Universe, are attempting to play god here in this solar system. I simply didn't want Crusades, Inquisitions, Wars, and Atrocities to keep occurring. I simply wanted the madness to end - and for this solar system to be run properly. But judging from the response I have received - this solar system - and probably the rest of the universe - really does need a God to tell them what to do. But the Creator God of the Universe seems to be excluded from this solar system. Perhaps this is what needs to change. Perhaps the Creator God of the Universe needs to be invited back into this solar system. I continue to fly blind - without proper information - and this really isn't fair. How can I make proper decisions without proper information. So I'm going to stop pushing a Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom Solar System - until I have better information upon which to make any kind of a determination regarding Solar System Governance. I'm sorry to have bothered all of you. God help us.
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    lindabaker

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    Re: Grace Cathedral

    Post  lindabaker on Sun Dec 12, 2010 2:38 pm

    ODM: you have never bothered me. I have enjoyed your personal expression of your journey. We all have ours, as well. Please do not ever consider your expression a bother to us. We would not respond if we were not interested.
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    orthodoxymoron

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    Re: Grace Cathedral

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:48 pm

    Thank-you Linda. Perhaps I should take the blue pill instead of the red pill! http://www.themistsofavalon.net/occult-societies-esoteric-groups-f30/egyptian-folklore-and-the-red-pill-t791-750.htm?highlight=red+pill

    Has anyone been listening to the Grace Cathedral services? I often do so when I lay down to go to sleep. Now, isn't that a glowing endorsement! I continue to think that we should consider what an ideal church might be like. I think Dr. Robert H. Schuller tried to do this - with great success - but, at some point, I think he lost his way. I would suggest reading his books and printed copies of his sermons - but cross out all of the self-aggrandizement. When I spoke to Dr. Walter Martin - he spoke of Dr. Schuller's 'corrupt theology'. I didn't question him on this - but just let me say - there is a good-side and a bad-side to that ministry. I hope that the Crystal Cathedral continues to be a beacon of hope in a broken world.



    Last edited by orthodoxymoron on Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    orthodoxymoron

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    Re: Grace Cathedral

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:16 pm

    This is just a bump of some cool pictures. Is anyone playing any of the mindgames referred to in this thread? I'm trying to - but I'm seeing problems everywhere I turn. A lot of things seem better conceptually, than they actually become in reality. So - we need to do the right thing - but don't expect too much in the way of joy and bliss. This may be all about simple survival. I don't mean to be negative - but the history of the world is filled with false-hopes and broken-promises. This is just one perspective - which might be of some benefit to someone who is trying to solve the world's problems. The more I think about all of this - the more I realize how incompetent I really am. I will not try to build myself up. I will call a fool - a fool. And yes - Raven was right - I am a completely ignorant fool. But having said that - I will continue to watch videos, read books, talk to people online, and go for long walks with my dog. But really - the deeper I get into all of this madness - the more mad I will probably become. It probably goes with the territory. Right, Lucifer? Try listening to this as you look at the pretty pictures. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCsnSXRpXug&feature=related

    Carol wrote:

    Grace Cathedral - San Francisco










    St Mary's Cathedral - San Francisco

    Agreed Oxy..



    cheers
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    orthodoxymoron

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    Re: Grace Cathedral

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:34 am

    DiVineEnvy wrote:Not to diminish either of your paths orthodoxymoron and Raven, but I would tend to agree that tantric stained glass would not fly very well at Chartres. It is my experience that we live in an age of excess. The temple, whether external or inner, is too often overwhelmed by a non-stop barrage of forms, ideas and images. A voluntary fast of the senses might be the preferred prelude to inner work.

    Tantric Stained Glass Windows would complement the Flying Buttresses at La Cathedrale Notre-Dame de Chartres. What would Raven say? #$$*(@)(@)%&*???!!! http://www.galenfrysinger.com/france_chartres.htm
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    orthodoxymoron

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    Re: Grace Cathedral

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:35 pm

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    orthodoxymoron

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    Re: Grace Cathedral

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Tue Dec 21, 2010 12:23 pm

    Is anyone listening to any of the Grace Cathedral services? I would highly recommend doing so - even if you don't believe in Christianity or God. It helps one to be a well-rounded researcher. This church is better than most. They have a new dean who is quite interesting and profound. I love her English accent and Oxford training. The music is quite inspiring, as well. Give it a try, at least once. Namaste. http://www.gracecathedral.org/church/overview/
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    orthodoxymoron

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    Re: Grace Cathedral

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Mon Jan 03, 2011 7:08 pm

    Just another bump. I do think that listening to Grace Cathedral services http://www.gracecathedral.org/church/overview/ makes for a well-rounded and grounded conspiracy and esoteric researcher. Also - listening to cathedral music, in general, while researching - lifts one to unimaginable heights. I'm really looking for minimalist integration and resolution - rather than stand-offs, god-offs, and trench-warfare. Enjoy!!

    Saint Ouen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basilica_of_St._Ouen,_Rouen

    1. Images http://www.google.com/images?rlz=1T4GGIR_enUS216US217&q=st+ouen+church+images&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&ei=jAb2TOXQGoT0tgPg_anlCw&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CCYQsAQwAA

    2. Boellmann http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueU4CDjn3v0

    3. Widor http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmjpkvXbyII&feature=related

    4. Saint Saens http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pny-Ily4SbE&feature=related

    5. Vierne http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCsnSXRpXug&feature=related

    6. Widor http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWsDk77nBwg&feature=related

    7. Mulet http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq8i69-L-Fs&feature=related

    8. Vierne http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AE2aC8Vefjw&feature=related

    9. Widor http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsyR40G2BeU&feature=related

    10. Widor http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BxHcPcTyTU&feature=related

    Saint Sulpice http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89glise_Saint-Sulpice,_Paris

    1. Images http://www.google.com/images?rlz=1T4GGIR_enUS216US217&q=st+sulpice+images&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&ei=xgn2TPfxBYGCsQOU_LDwAQ&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CCgQsAQwAA

    2. Vierne http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmZE2bEzeVw&feature=related

    3. Dupre http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qBxZQfrTTQ&feature=related

    4. Dupre http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOnr5uhoPlE&feature=related

    5. Dupre http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRcMtB27z7E&feature=related

    6. Dupre http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxBjqrPAUg8&feature=related

    7. Dupre http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mHOfP4MEfc&feature=related

    8. Dupre http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9X6cZfy9uR0

    9. Dupre http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjqbee8cRyw&feature=related

    10. Dupre http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tmnWhaQC4c&feature=related

    The time of the cathedrals may have arrived. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L24vaxNH91w&feature=related

    Latin Masses:

    1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enWiFcsBqIE

    2. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1872714663680800365#docid=-4310737114054240867

    3. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1872714663680800365#docid=7583090662971128459

    4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uXURX5y4eE

    5. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qtk7D1pcwZY&feature=related

    6. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94sa1Byb7fw

    7. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSxVO3EoCRM&feature=related

    8. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueU4CDjn3v0

    Latin Mass Society of England and Wales http://www.latin-mass-society.org/

    LatinMass.org http://www.latinmass.org/

    Latin Mass Magazine http://www.latinmassmagazine.com/

    Latin Mass Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tridentine_Mass
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    orthodoxymoron

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    Re: Grace Cathedral

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:08 am

    Something I should mention about Grace Cathedral is that there is a Masonic Temple across the street! Is this significant? As with most things - I tend to think that the Masons are a mixture of good and evil - but that at the highest levels, they are working for the wrong boss. Reports of creepy rituals continue to concern me. Anyway - here's a picture. How many Masons does it take to change a lightbulb? It's a secret...

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    orthodoxymoron

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    Re: Grace Cathedral

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:11 pm

    If you don't like Grace Cathedral - you can always attend this church: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAo3Nefox2w&NR=1&feature=fvwp Don't laugh. Your daughter might be a member...

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    Re: Grace Cathedral

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