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    orthodoxymoron

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    Very Interesting Jordan Maxwell Interview

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Fri May 13, 2011 2:05 am

    I haven't started a new thread for a long time, but I found this interview to be quite interesting. Please watch it, and tell me what you think. I mostly point to the work of other people. Why reinvent the wheel? Besides, I really am a completely ignorant fool, who just happens to have enough sense, to point people in the right direction! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5p_rrTs_WfQ&feature=related

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    enemyofNWO

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    Re: Very Interesting Jordan Maxwell Interview

    Post  enemyofNWO on Fri May 13, 2011 6:53 am

    Excellent interview . I am still watching it but i am in agreement with Jordan about the intrinsic evil of christianity . Living in Italy I see every day constant interference in Italian internal affairs by the pope and his bishop . The shocking part is that no politicians has got the balls to tell those jokers to mind their pedophilia business . Watching how many brainwashed followers are prepared to travel to see this pseudo holy man i realize that there is no hope for mankind . I will offer you a couple of recent pearls of wisdom from the idiots in the vatican .
    Last week on visiting the North East corner of Italy ( where I live ) , the pope urged the citizens to welcome the refugees from North Africa , the one displaced by the artificial war to rob libya of it's oil ! But , unfortunately this character did not offer to accommodate them in the Vatican or offer money for their support ... . I am not trying to be racist but this illegal immigration story is continuing for a long time ....
    Pearl of wisdom number two . A bishop called Crepaldi urged the voters at election time to consider voting for political parties aligned to the philosophy of the church ! http://www.catholic.net/index.php?option=zenit&id=32512
    That's a great philosophy that includes pedophilia , secret societies , secret rites , laundering money , organizing wars and assassinations , corrupting politicians etc.etc .

    One of my hopes is that a nuke will exterminate the vatican city . Exterminate is the operative word used by the fictitious Daleks in the Dr WHO series . I know that I have been on this bandwagon for a while , but I know there is no god , no jesus , no nothing and behaving cruelly towards the church is an act of kindness for mankind . Visiting a bookshop just yesterday i came to the conclusion that there are more and more books written in Italian that are very critical of the Ratzinger persona and the church .This realization has given me a bit of hope I bought a book yesterday called " SEX and the Vatican " by Carmelo Abbate .
    If there is going to be a popular uprising to get rid of the vatican parasites , a lot more people must wake up and frankly ,I don't know whether it will ever happen .
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    orthodoxymoron

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    Re: Very Interesting Jordan Maxwell Interview

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Fri May 13, 2011 8:03 am

    Thank-you enemyofNWO. I'm glad you liked the interview. They cover a lot of territory, don't they. I remain schizophrenic regarding religion, Christianity, and the Vatican. I think we might be dealing with gods and goddesses, angels and demons, rather than God - at least in this solar system. I think theology is very important, as does Jordan Maxwell. I've recently become fascinated with the life and times of Pope Pius XII - for a variety of reasons. I'd still like to somehow hijack the Vatican with my little Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom United States of the Solar System - and mostly replace Canon Law with the Teachings of Jesus. I doubt the details of the Historical Jesus - even though it's a terrific story. But I do reverence the actual Teachings of Jesus - even though there are some perplexing 'hard-sayings' of Jesus. These teachings might not have been spoken by Christ 2,000 years ago, but regardless of their source, I find them to be inspiring and profound. What if the Vatican were based upon the Red-Letter Teachings of Jesus and the U.S. Constitution? I love the art, architecture, music, panache, etc. of the Vatican and the Roman Catholic Church, but the history and theology are hugely problematic - and the form of governance lends itself to evil and corruption. There seems to be too much power at the top, and too much secrecy. This is just my impression. The Vatican seems to be a huge part of the problem - and potentially a huge part of the solution. Hope springs eternal.
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    Mercuriel
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    Re: Very Interesting Jordan Maxwell Interview

    Post  Mercuriel on Fri May 13, 2011 9:48 am

    enemyofNWO wrote:but I know there is no god

    Alas My Brother - I feel deep sadness for You...

    You deny Yourself. You are God living a Life in this Reality as eNWO...

    An Aspect of that as All of Us are.

    I suspect You will rail against what I have said and say to Me - "No Mercuriel - There is no God."

    Heh heh

    You may think this as that is Your Perogative - It is Anyone's if They so wish but I would say this and please do not take offense to It...

    The Dark have been successful in that They have made You turn away from Yourself. They have been successful in that You seem to see no other course of action but further Violence, Death and the Destruction of Others. To Negatives albeit - But Its still a Paradigm of Force versus Force nonetheless...

    In the Future - Perhaps not in this Lifetime though - You will see the Truth of It minus the need for Retribution...

    Again - I say this with nothing but Love for You even though You may say "Bahhh" to that, and to Me...

    Go easy Brother - Go easy...

    JT


    _________________
    Namaste...

    Peace, Light, Love, Harmony and Unity...
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    enemyofNWO

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    Re: Very Interesting Jordan Maxwell Interview

    Post  enemyofNWO on Fri May 13, 2011 11:12 am

    orthodoxymoron wrote:Thank-you enemyofNWO. I'm glad you liked the interview. They cover a lot of territory, don't they. I remain schizophrenic regarding religion, Christianity, and the Vatican. I think we might be dealing with gods and goddesses, angels and demons, rather than God - at least in this solar system. I think theology is very important, as does Jordan Maxwell. I've recently become fascinated with the life and times of Pope Pius XII - for a variety of reasons. I'd still like to somehow hijack the Vatican with my little Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom United States of the Solar System - and mostly replace Canon Law with the Teachings of Jesus. I doubt the details of the Historical Jesus - even though it's a terrific story. But I do reverence the actual Teachings of Jesus - even though there are some perplexing 'hard-sayings' of Jesus. These teachings might not have been spoken by Christ 2,000 years ago, but regardless of their source, I find them to be inspiring and profound. What if the Vatican were based upon the Red-Letter Teachings of Jesus and the U.S. Constitution? I love the art, architecture, music, panache, etc. of the Vatican and the Roman Catholic Church, but the history and theology are hugely problematic - and the form of governance lends itself to evil and corruption. There seems to be too much power at the top, and too much secrecy. This is just my impression. The Vatican seems to be a huge part of the problem - and potentially a huge part of the solution. Hope springs eternal.



    Orthy ,

    On principle I like most of what you write above. It does not matter at all whether Christ existed or is manufactured character , also it doesn't matter whether the whole rites and symbolism of modern religions have been lifted form previous ones . There are some positive concepts from most religions , but those concepts are ignored by most of the followers of those religions . The problem is that religions have been used to control the minds of people for thousands of years and the ones in charge of those religions have used their position to enrich their organization and exercise control over nations . Even the art , the architecture and the music have been obtained by exploiting the artists . Having been educated here , I could see as I was growing up successive examples of crass hypocrisy displayed by the church and that did not sit well with me . People also put up with every day overbearing behavior by the clergy . 60 years later i can see that I am no longer one of the very few that despise that criminal organization . The numbers of the skeptics and outright haters of this octopus are growing . There are issues attached to this malevolent octopus . The church is part of the international agreement to keep the population ignorant about the Alien problem . Bill Cooper in " Behold a pale horse " wrote that a representative of the pope was present when President Eisenhower had the first meeting with the Aliens . Then there are the restrictions about access to the Vatican library . Some restrictions are understandable due to the age of certain manuscripts , but some of them are in place to maintain the secrets of the church and keep people ignorant . I suggest you rent the Movie AGORA about the sacking of the legendary Alexandria's library .
    On Pius X12 and his reign , I refer you to the website below . It's in Italian but the article is about a concentration camp run by francescan monks in wartime Croatia (Jugoslavia ) .The Vatican knowingly eliminated 500,000 Serbs and 40,000 Jews .

    http://www.luogocomune.net/site/modules/sections/index.php?op=viewarticle&artid=136

    If you are interested in reading the article use Google translate , alternatively I would translate it and paste it here on this thread .
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    orthodoxymoron

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    Re: Very Interesting Jordan Maxwell Interview

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Fri May 13, 2011 12:34 pm

    Thank-you enemyofNWO. There is only so much of the bloody history that I can handle. I have to shield myself from a lot of it. I really am much too sensitive and idealistic. The same goes for nasty, faith-shattering harangues. I have to take that sort of thing in small doses. If one really wishes to become disillusioned, they can read 'Foxe's Book of Martyrs'. This world has been, and is, a Bloody and Stupid Insane Asylum. It has so much potential - but I hate the reality. On the other hand, I used to love to practice the pipe-organ in a small Roman Catholic church - and watch people praying as I practiced. To me, this is church at it's best.


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    enemyofNWO

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    Re: Very Interesting Jordan Maxwell Interview

    Post  enemyofNWO on Fri May 13, 2011 1:46 pm

    Mercuriel wrote:
    enemyofNWO wrote:but I know there is no god

    Alas My Brother - I feel deep sadness for You...

    You deny Yourself. You are God living a Life in this Reality as eNWO...

    An Aspect of that as All of Us are.

    I suspect You will rail against what I have said and say to Me - "No Mercuriel - There is no God."

    Heh heh

    You may think this as that is Your Perogative - It is Anyone's if They so wish but I would say this and please do not take offense to It...

    The Dark have been successful in that They have made You turn away from Yourself. They have been successful in that You seem to see no other course of action but further Violence, Death and the Destruction of Others. To Negatives albeit - But Its still a Paradigm of Force versus Force nonetheless...

    In the Future - Perhaps not in this Lifetime though - You will see the Truth of It minus the need for Retribution...

    Again - I say this with nothing but Love for You even though You may say "Bahhh" to that, and to Me...

    Go easy Brother - Go easy...

    JT


    Greetings Merc.

    No I will not rail against you . There is a thing called freedom of thought and freedom of choice . You exercise your freedom . Thanks for saying I am a god .There are 7 billion of us on this Earth and we all exercise our freedom of choice . I choose not to forgive the bastards we are talking about , actually I wish them all the worst that can happen to them including total destruction . You mention another lifetime .... sorry I don't plan to have another lifetime in this hell hole .
    Either free forever or if that is not possible, I will work for the " dark side , if it exist . There are no rewards trying to do the right thing in this planet .


    Last edited by enemyofNWO on Sat May 21, 2011 8:45 am; edited 1 time in total
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    orthodoxymoron

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    Re: Very Interesting Jordan Maxwell Interview

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Fri May 13, 2011 2:45 pm

    enemyofNWO - I think a lot of beings - human and otherwise - have chosen to work for the darkside - because the system of rewards and punishments is backasswards. This needs to be corrected, or this world will remain the hell-hole that it is, until it's pulverized into one big asteroid-belt. I'll keep reincarnating in this solar system - trying to make it better.
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    enemyofNWO

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    Re: Very Interesting Jordan Maxwell Interview

    Post  enemyofNWO on Fri May 13, 2011 4:29 pm

    orthodoxymoron wrote:enemyofNWO - I think a lot of beings - human and otherwise - have chosen to work for the darkside - because the system of rewards and punishments is backasswards. This needs to be corrected, or this world will remain the hell-hole that it is, until it's pulverized into one big asteroid-belt. I'll keep reincarnating in this solar system - trying to make it better.


    May be the system is designed like this on purpose so that humans fail on Earth over and over and over . We are basically guessing and we do not know the rules of the game . We have been told confusing BS for thousands of years . As I said before , imagine you go to Las Vegas to play a game in which the rules are complicated and unknown . This is why I don't want to play ball any longer . It's a stupid game .
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    orthodoxymoron

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    Re: Very Interesting Jordan Maxwell Interview

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Fri May 13, 2011 4:53 pm

    enemyofNWO wrote:
    orthodoxymoron wrote:enemyofNWO - I think a lot of beings - human and otherwise - have chosen to work for the darkside - because the system of rewards and punishments is backasswards. This needs to be corrected, or this world will remain the hell-hole that it is, until it's pulverized into one big asteroid-belt. I'll keep reincarnating in this solar system - trying to make it better.


    May be the system is designed like this on purpose so that humans fail on Earth over and over and over . We are basically guessing and we do not know the rules of the game . We have been told confusing BS for thousands of years . As I said before , imagine you go to Las Vegas to play a game in which the rules are complicated and unknown . This is why I don't want to play ball any longer . It's a stupid game .

    I'd love to offer a clever solution to what you just said - but I can't. I agree completely. I don't want to play this stupid game any longer - but I feel obligated to do so. I'm trying to change the damn game - but the galactic powers that be seem to have other ideas...
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    starninja
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    Re: Very Interesting Jordan Maxwell Interview

    Post  starninja on Fri May 20, 2011 2:47 pm

    Ortho,

    You may find on internet an interview with Jordan Maxwell where he said that he was fascinated with Madame Blavatsky and M. P. Hall. BTW, I was laughing at Jordan interpretation of language. It works in English. Jordan assumed that Americans don't speak any foreign language to.....see BS. Insanely Happy


    Pan was a composite creature, the upper part–with the exception of his horns–being human, and the lower part in the form of a goat. (…)The pipes of Pan signify the natural harmony of the spheres, and the god himself is a symbol of Saturn because this planet is enthroned in Capricorn, whose emblem is a goat” -Manly P. Hall, Secret Teachings of All Ages


    Let's look "the natural harmony of the spheres" Lolerz
















    Jupiter and Antiope



    In Greek mythology, Antiope (pronounced /ænˈtaɪ.əpiː/) was the name of the daughter of the Boeotian river god Asopus, according to Homer;[1] in later sources[2] she is called the daughter of the "nocturnal" king Nycteus of Thebes or, in the Cypria, of Lycurgus, but for Homer her site is purely Boeotian. Her beauty attracted Zeus, who, assuming the form of a satyr, took her by force.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiope_(mother_of_Amphion)






    Music, Franz von Stuck






    Diana and her Nymphs Surprised by the Fauns, Peter Paul Rubens








    Cupid and Psyche by Giulio Romano


    I guess, Hall loved art. Insanely Happy
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    orthodoxymoron

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    Re: Very Interesting Jordan Maxwell Interview

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Fri May 20, 2011 3:06 pm

    Thank-you starninja. I don't take Jordan as gospel - but I think he's on the right track, in many ways. He is very good at pointing out problems, but not very good at providing solutions. He is quite skeptical about the future - and not without reason. Once again, I'm just trying to listen to everyone, and then ask a lot of questions. I like considering Jordan Maxwell, Manley Hall, Helena Blavatsky, et al - without getting too close to their material. I wish that I had visited the Philosophical Research Society in Los Angeles. I drove right past it for years. I like listening to researchers, such as Dr. Obediah Harris. I think we need to encourage people to become skilled researchers - in all subjects. I'd rather have people become researchers, than have them listen to my opinions and biases. We need a critical mass of responsible researchers if we wish to have an enlightend solar system representative republic. I'm planning on doing less internet work, and more textbook work. I might not even notice when they shut down the internet. I want my next life to be like that last painting - except I'd like to have a research library and a Cray!



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    Re: Very Interesting Jordan Maxwell Interview

    Post  starninja on Fri May 20, 2011 3:21 pm

    enemyofNWO wrote:

    Excellent interview . I am still watching it but i am in agreement with Jordan about the intrinsic evil of christianity . Living in Italy I see every day constant interference in Italian internal affairs by the pope and his bishop . The shocking part is that no politicians has got the balls to tell those jokers to mind their pedophilia business . Watching how many brainwashed followers are prepared to travel to see this pseudo holy man i realize that there is no hope for mankind . I will offer you a couple of recent pearls of wisdom from the idiots in the vatican .
    Last week on visiting the North East corner of Italy ( where I live ) , the pope urged the citizens to welcome the refugees from North Africa , the one displaced by the artificial war to rob libya of it's oil ! But , unfortunately this character did not offer to accommodate them in the Vatican or offer money for their support ... . I am not trying to be racist but this illegal immigration story is continuing for a long time ....
    Pearl of wisdom number two . A bishop called Crepaldi urged the voters at election time to consider voting for political parties aligned to the philosophy of the church ! http://www.catholic.net/index.php?option=zenit&id=32512
    That's a great philosophy that includes pedophilia , secret societies , secret rites , laundering money , organizing wars and assassinations , corrupting politicians etc.etc .

    One of my hopes is that a nuke will exterminate the vatican city . Exterminate is the operative word used by the fictitious Daleks in the Dr WHO series . I know that I have been on this bandwagon for a while , but I know there is no god , no jesus , no nothing and behaving cruelly towards the church is an act of kindness for mankind . Visiting a bookshop just yesterday i came to the conclusion that there are more and more books written in Italian that are very critical of the Ratzinger persona and the church .This realization has given me a bit of hope I bought a book yesterday called " SEX and the Vatican " by Carmelo Abbate .
    If there is going to be a popular uprising to get rid of the vatican parasites , a lot more people must wake up and frankly ,I don't know whether it will ever happen .

    Hm......you need to go to the bottom.

    For over three hundred years the rulers of the Roman Empire worshipped the god Mithras. Known throughout Europe and Asia by the names Mithra, Mitra, Meitros, Mihr, Mehr, and Meher, the veneration of this god began some 4000 years ago in Persia, where it was soon imbedded with Babylonian doctrines.

    Mithras is the same god Mitra in Vedic teachings, the oldest teachings. Mithras resembles Christ teachings and it is a mind blowing. Nothing has changed.......only the name of gods who rule us. Naughty Today, we are pushed to believe in neo pagan religions with shamans, elementals and all gods in Greek and Egyptian mythology, particularly, god Pan and his companion….lustful Satyr busy seducing women with his music. They also want us to believe in Balvatsky and her ascended masters. Many religions to control and enslaved us. But everybody can find religion that may “resonates” with him or her. Lolerz
    I hope that nuke will exterminate all religions and we will be free. Insanely Happy

    More about Mithras and Christianity.


    The faith spread east through India to China, and reached west throughout the entire length of the Roman frontier; from Scotland to the Sahara Desert, and from Spain to the Black Sea. Sites of Mithraic worship have been found in Britain, Italy, Romania, Germany, Hungary, Bulgaria, Turkey, Persia, Armenia, Syria, Israel, and North Africa.

    In Rome, more than a hundred inscriptions dedicated to Mithras have been found, in addition to 75 sculpture fragments, and a series of Mithraic temples situated in all parts of the city.

    One of the largest Mithraic temples built in Italy now lies under the present site of the Church of St. Clemente, near the Colosseum in Rome.

    The widespread popularity and appeal of Mithraism as the final and most refined form of pre-Christian paganism was discussed by the Greek historian Herodotus, the Greek biographer Plutarch, the neoplatonic philosopher Porphyry, the Gnostic heretic Origen, and St. Jerome the church Father. Mithraism was quite often noted by many historians for its many astonishing similarities to Christianity.

    Have You Heard This Before?

    The faithful referred to Mithras (REMEMBER, 4000 years ago!) as "the Light of the World", symbol of truth, justice, and loyalty. He was mediator between heaven and earth and was a member of a Holy Trinity. According to Persian mythology, Mithras was born of a virgin given the title 'Mother of God'. The god remained celibate throughout his life, and valued self-control, renunciation and resistance to sensuality among his worshippers. Mithras represented a system of ethics in which brotherhood was encouraged in order to unify against the forces of evil.

    The worshippers of Mithras held strong beliefs in a celestial heaven and an infernal hell. They believed that the benevolent powers of the god would sympathize with their suffering and grant them the final justice of immortality and eternal salvation in the world to come. They looked forward to a final day of judgement in which the dead would resurrect, and to a final conflict that would destroy the existing order of all things to bring about the triumph of light over darkness.

    Purification through a ritualistic baptism was required of the faithful, who also took part in a ceremony in which they drank wine and ate bread to symbolize the body and blood of the god. Sundays were held sacred, and the birth of the god was celebrated annually on December the 25th. After the earthly mission of this god had been accomplished, he took part in a Last Supper with his companions before ascending to heaven, to forever protect the faithful from above.

    However, it would be a vast oversimplification to suggest that Mithraism was the single fore-runner of early Christianity. Aside from Christ and Mithras, there were plenty of other deities (such as Osiris, Tammuz, Adonis, Balder, Attis, and Dionysus) said to have died and resurrected. Many classical heroic figures, such as Hercules, Perseus, and Theseus, were said to have been born through the union of a virgin mother and divine father. Virtually every pagan religious practice and festivity that couldn't be suppressed or driven underground was eventually incorporated into the rites of Gentile Christianity as it spread across Europe and throughout the world.

    The Lord's supper was not invented by Paul, but was borrowed by him from Mithraism, the mystery religion that existed long before Christianity and was Christianity's chief competitor up until the time of Constantine. Paul's "home-town" was Tarsus, from where Mithraism began. In Mithraism, the central figure is the mythical Mithras, who died for the sins of mankind and was resurrected.

    Believers in Mithras were rewarded with eternal life. Part of the Mithraic communion liturgy included the words, "He who will not eat of my body and drink of my blood, so that he will be made one with me and I with him, the same shall not know salvation."

    Originally Mithra was one of the lesser gods of the ancient Persian pantheon, but he came to be regarded as the spiritual Sun, the heavenly Light, and the chief and also the embodiment of the seven divine spirits of goodness; and already in the time of Jesus he had risen to be co-equal with, though created by, Ormuzd (Ahura-Mazda), the Supreme Being [J.M. Robertson, /Pagan Christs/, p. 290.], and Mediator between him and man [Plutarch, /Isis et Osiris/, ch. 46; Julian, /In regem solem/, chs. 9, 10, 21.]. He appears to have lived an incarnate life on earth, and in some unknown manner to have suffered death for the good of mankind, an image symbolizing his resurrection being employed in his ceremonies [Tertullian, /Praescr/., ch. 40.]. Tarsus, the home of Paul, was one of the great centers of his worship, being the chief city of the Cilicians; and, as will presently appear, there is a decided tinge of Mithraism in the Epistles and Gospels. Thus the designations of Jesus as the Dayspring from on High [Luke, i. 78.], the Light [2 Cor. iv. 6; Eph. v. 13, 14; I. Thess. v. 5; etc.], the Sun of Righteousness [Malachi iv. 2]; and much used in Christianity, and similar expressions, are borrowed from or related to Mithraic phraseology.

    Mithra was born from a rock [Firmicus, /De errore/, xxi.; etc.], as shown in Mithraic sculptures, being sometimes termed ''the god out of the rock'', and his worship was always conducted in a cave; and the general belief in the early Church that Jesus was born in a cave is a direct instance of the taking over of Mithraic ideas. The words of Paul, "They drank of that spiritual rock ... and that rock was Christ'' [I Corinthians x. 4.] are borrowed from the Mithraic scriptures; for not only was Mithra "the Rock'', but one of his mythological acts, which also appears in the acts of Moses, was the striking of the rock and the producing of water from it which his followers eagerly drank. Justin Martyr [Justin Martyr, /Dial. with Trypho/, ch. 70.] complains that the prophetic words in the Book of Daniel [Daniel ii. 34.] regarding a stone which was cut out of the rock without hands were also used in the Mithraic ritual; and it is apparent that the great importance attached by the early Church to the supposed words of Jesus in regard to Peter -- "Upon this rock I will build my church" [Matthew xvi. 18.] -- was due to their approximation to the Mithraic idea of the /Theos ek Petras/, the "God from the Rock''. Indeed, it may be that the reason of the Vatican hill at Rome being regarded as sacred to Peter, the Christian "Rock'', was that it was already sacred to Mithra, for Mithraic remains have been found there.

    The chief incident of Mithra's life was his struggle with a symbolical bull, which he overpowered and sacrificed, and from the blood of the sacrifice came the world's peace and plenty, typified by ears of corn. The bull appears to signify the earth or mankind, and the implication is that Mithra, like Jesus, overcame the world; but in the early Persian writings Mithra is himself the bull [J.M. Robertson, /Pagan Christs/, p. 298.], the god thus sacrificing himself, which is a close approximation to the Christian idea. In later times the bull is interchangeable with a ram; but the zodiacal ram, Aries, which is associated with Mithra, was replaced by a lamb in the Persian zodiac [Bundahish, ii. 2.], so that it is a lamb which is sacrificed [Garucci, /Les Myste`res du Syn. Phrygien/, p. 34.], as in Easter concept of Jesus. That this sacrifice had originally a human victim, and that it later involved the idea of the sacramental death of a human being, is clear from the fact that the Church historian, Socrates, believed that human victims were still sacrificed in the Mithraic mysteries down to some period before A.D. 360 [Socrates, /Eccles. Hist., bk. iii., ch. 2.].

    Thus the paramount Christian idea of the sacrifice of the lamb of God was one with which every worshipper of Mithra was familiar; and just as Mithra was an embodiment of the seven spirits of God, so the slain Lamb in the Book of Revelation has seven horns and seven eyes "which are the seven spirits of God'' [Revelation v. 6.]. Early writers say that a lamb was consecrated, killed, and eaten as an Easter rite in the Church; but Easter was a Mithraic festival [Macrobius, /Saturnalia/, i. 18.], presumably of the resurrection of their god, and the parallel is thus complete, in which regard it is to be noted that in the Seventh Century the Church endeavored without success to suppress the picturing of Jesus as a lamb, owing to the paganism involved in the idea [Bingham, /Christian Antiq./, viii. 8, sec. 11; xv. 2, sec. 3.].

    The ceremonies of purification by the sprinkling or drenching of the novice with the blood of bulls or rams were widespread, and were to be found in the rites of Mithra. By this purification a man was "born again" [Beugnot, /Hist. de la Dest. Du Paganisme/, i. p. 334.], and the Christian expression "washed in the blood of the Lamb" is undoubtedly a reflection of this idea, the reference thus being clear in the words of the Epistle to the Hebrews: "It is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins". In this passage the writer goes on to say: "Having boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way which he hath consecrated for us through the veil, that is to say his flesh ... let us draw near ... having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water" [Hebrews x. 19.]. But when we learn that the Mithraic initiation ceremony consisted in entering boldly into a mysterious underground "holy of holies", with the eyes veiled, and there being sprinkled with blood, and washed with water, it is clear that the author of the Epistle was thinking of those Mithraic rites with which everybody at that time must have been so familiar.

    Another ceremony in the religion of Mithra was that of stepping across a channel of water, the hands being entangled in the entrails of a bird, signifying sin, and of being "liberated" on the other side; and this seems to be referred to by Paul when he says: "Stand fast in the liberty wherewith Christ has made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage" [Galatians v. 1.].

    Tertullian [Tertullian, /Praescr./, ch. 40.] states that the worshippers of Mithra practiced baptism by water, through which they were thought to be redeemed from sin, and that the priest made a sign upon the forehead of the person baptized; but as this was also a Christian rite, Tertullian declares that the Devil must have effected the coincidence for his wicked ends. "The Devil'', he also writes, "imitates even the main parts of our divine mysteries", and "has gone about to apply to the worship of idols those very things of which the administration of Christ's sacraments consists".

    In this rite he must be referring both to the baptismal rite and also to the Mithraic eucharist, of which Justin Martyr [Justin Martyr, /1 Apol./, ch. 66.] had already complained when he declared that it was Satan who had plagiarized the ceremony, causing the worshippers of Mithra to receive the consecrated bread and cup of water. The ceremony of eating an incarnate god's body and drinking his blood is, of course, of very ancient and originally cannibalistic inception, and there are several sources from which the Christian rite may be derived, if, as most critics think, it was not instituted as an actual ceremony by Jesus; but its connection with the Mithraic rite is the most apparent.

    The worshippers of Mithra were called "Soldiers of Mithra", which is probably the origin of the term "Soldiers of Christ'' and of the exhortation to Christians to "put on the armour of light" [Romans xiii. 12. Compare also Ephesians vi. 11, 13.], Mithra being the god of Light. As in Christianity, they recognized no social distinctions, both rich and poor, freemen and slaves, being admitted into the Army of the Lord. Mithraism had its austerities, typified in the severe initiation rites endured by a "Soldier of Mithra"; and the Epistle to Timothy, similarly, exhorts the Christian to "endure hardness as a good soldier of Jesus Christ" [2 Timothy ii. 3.]. It also had its nuns and its male celibates [Tertullian, /Prascr./, ch. 40.]; and one of its main tenets was the control of the flesh and the repudiation of the world, this being symbolized in the initiation ceremony, whereat a crown was offered to the novice, who had to reject it, saying, as did the Christians, that it was to a heavenly crown that he looked. We hear, too, of hymns which could be used with equal propriety by Christians and Mithraists alike [/Rev. Arch./, vol. xvii. (1911), p. 397.]. The Mithraic worship always took place in caves, these being either natural or artificial. Now the early Christians, openly and for no reasons of secrecy or security, employed those subterranean rock chambers known as catacombs both for their burials and for public worship. Like the Mithraic caves, these catacombs were decorated with paintings, amongst which the subject of Moses striking the rock, which, as I have said above, has a Mithraic parallel, is often represented. The most frequent theme is that of Jesus as the Good Shepherd; and although it is generally agreed that the figure of Jesus carrying a lamb is taken from the statues of Hermes Kriophoros [Pausanias, iv. 33.], the kid-carrying god, Mithra is sometimes shown carrying a bull across his shoulders, and Apollo, who, in his solar aspect and as the patron of the rocks [/Hymn to the Delian Apollo./], is to be identified with Mithra, is often called "The Good Shepherd". At the birth of Mithra the child was adored by shepherds, who brought gifts to him [/Encyc. Brit./, 11th ed., vol. xvii., p. 623.].

    The Hebrew Sabbath having been abolished by Christians, the Church made a sacred day of Sunday, partly because it was the day of the resurrection, but largely because it was the weekly festival of the sun; for it was a definite Christian policy to take over the pagan festivals endeared to the people by tradition, and to give them a Christian significance. But, as a solar festival, Sunday was the sacred day of Mithra; and it is interesting to notice that since Mithra was addressed as /Dominus/, "Lord'', Sunday must have been "the Lord's Day" long before Christian times. December 25th was the birthday of the sun-god, and particularly of Mithra, and was only taken over in the Fourth Century as the date, actually unknown, of the birth of Jesus.

    The head of the Mithraic faith was called /Pater Patrum/, "Father of the Fathers", and was seated at Rome; and similarly the head of the Church was the /Papa/, or "Father", now known as the Pope, who was also seated at Rome. The Pope's crown is called a tiara, but a tiara is a Persian, and hence perhaps a Mithraic, headdress. The ancient chair preserved in the Vatican and supposed to have been the pontifical throne used by St. Peter, is in reality of pagan origin, and may possibly be Mithraic also, for it has upon it certain pagan carvings which are thought to be connected with Mithra [J.M. Robertson, /Pagan Christs/, p. 336.].

    http://www.innvista.com/culture/religion/deities/mithra.htm



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    Re: Very Interesting Jordan Maxwell Interview

    Post  starninja on Fri May 20, 2011 3:32 pm

    orthodoxymoron wrote:

    Thank-you starninja. I don't take Jordan as gospel - but I think he's on the right track, in many ways. He is very good at pointing out problems, but not very good at providing solutions. He is quite skeptical about the future - and not without reason. Once again, I'm just trying to listen to everyone, and then ask a lot of questions. I like considering Jordan Maxwell, Manley Hall, Helena Blavatsky, et al - without getting too close to their material. I wish that I had visited the Philosophical Research Society in Los Angeles. I drove right past it for years. I like listening to researchers, such as Dr. Obediah Harris. I think we need to encourage people to become skilled researchers - in all subjects. I'd rather have people become researchers, than have them listen to my opinions and biases. We need a critical mass of responsible researchers if we wish to have an enlightend solar system representative republic. I'm planning on doing less internet work, and more textbook work. I might not even notice when they shut down the internet. I want my next life to be like that last painting - except I'd like to have a research library and a Cray!


    I strongly disagree that Maxwell is on right track. When you go to the mythology and the original sources you will find tons of lies that he is spreading. Hm....he believes that people are too stupid or totally mind controlled to even think or to do own research. Annoyed

    You want to have life to be like on the last painting. You are a male. I don’t. When you study mythology you would be shocked how many rapes of women were going on. Shocked
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    Re: Very Interesting Jordan Maxwell Interview

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Sat May 21, 2011 10:55 am

    starninja wrote:
    orthodoxymoron wrote:

    Thank-you starninja. I don't take Jordan as gospel - but I think he's on the right track, in many ways. He is very good at pointing out problems, but not very good at providing solutions. He is quite skeptical about the future - and not without reason. Once again, I'm just trying to listen to everyone, and then ask a lot of questions. I like considering Jordan Maxwell, Manley Hall, Helena Blavatsky, et al - without getting too close to their material. I wish that I had visited the Philosophical Research Society in Los Angeles. I drove right past it for years. I like listening to researchers, such as Dr. Obediah Harris. I think we need to encourage people to become skilled researchers - in all subjects. I'd rather have people become researchers, than have them listen to my opinions and biases. We need a critical mass of responsible researchers if we wish to have an enlightend solar system representative republic. I'm planning on doing less internet work, and more textbook work. I might not even notice when they shut down the internet. I want my next life to be like that last painting - except I'd like to have a research library and a Cray!

    I strongly disagree that Maxwell is on right track. When you go to the mythology and the original sources you will find tons of lies that he is spreading. Hm....he believes that people are too stupid or totally mind controlled to even think or to do own research. Annoyed

    You want to have life to be like on the last painting. You are a male. I don’t. When you study mythology you would be shocked how many rapes of women were going on. Shocked

    Where did Jordan get it wrong in this interview? Your quoted information on Mithras was very interesting. Do you think that the Teachings of Jesus are a part of all of this - or are they somehow isolated from the paganism? Also, if reincarnation is a valid concept, might the Horus/Jesus story have repeated in some sort of a cyclical ritual? I'm trying to figure out the best next step for Christianity. I'm continuing to consider 1. The Red-Letter Teachings of Jesus. 2. The U.S. Constitution. 3. The Latin Mass. 4. Sacred Classical Music. 5. Dropping the BS. The Protestants are more Roman Catholic than they realize - and all of Christendom is indebted to Pre-Christian Paganism. But this doesn't mean that there isn't right and wrong - and that there is no afterlife or reincarnation. I simply expect to get recycled back into the madness in this solar system - which is why I am trying to make it a better place for all concerned. BTW - that pretty lady seems to be quite happy with the situation - as does the little child in the middle! The sheep, goats, and rams were being raped right and left. It was really baaaaaaaad!
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    Re: Very Interesting Jordan Maxwell Interview

    Post  starninja on Sat May 21, 2011 1:54 pm

    Orthodoxymoron wrote:

    Where did Jordan get it wrong in this interview? Your quoted information on Mithras was very interesting. Do you think that the Teachings of Jesus are a part of all of this - or are they somehow isolated from the paganism? Also, if reincarnation is a valid concept, might the Horus/Jesus story have repeated in some sort of a cyclical ritual? I'm trying to figure out the best next step for Christianity. I'm continuing to consider 1. The Red-Letter Teachings of Jesus. 2. The U.S. Constitution. 3. The Latin Mass. 4. Sacred Classical Music. 5. Dropping the BS. The Protestants are more Roman Catholic than they realize - and all of Christendom is indebted to Pre-Christian Paganism. But this doesn't mean that there isn't right and wrong - and that there is no afterlife or reincarnation. I simply expect to get recycled back into the madness in this solar system - which is why I am trying to make it a better place for all concerned. BTW - that pretty lady seems to be quite happy with the situation - as does the little child in the middle! The sheep, goats, and rams were being raped right and left. It was really baaaaaaaad!

    Hey, you have more consideration for sheep, goats, and rams being raped than for women who have been raped and mythology is full of it. It makes me think. Shocked

    As I said earlier, you need to go to mythology and the original sources to find out where Maxwell is wrong. We got minds for a reason. Heh heh

    You still want to be stuck with religions and religious myths rather than looking for truth. Insanely Happy It is your choice but I am not interested in that kind of discussion as you may clearly see on my tread The Horns of Moses. I have also given some clue where to look further about reincarnation. But I am not interested in influencing people what I think but stimulate them through mythology and art to think for themselves and to do own research. Art is the best as it helps to access the right brain where the emotions and insights originate.
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    Re: Very Interesting Jordan Maxwell Interview

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Sat May 21, 2011 2:18 pm

    starninja wrote:
    Orthodoxymoron wrote:

    Where did Jordan get it wrong in this interview? Your quoted information on Mithras was very interesting. Do you think that the Teachings of Jesus are a part of all of this - or are they somehow isolated from the paganism? Also, if reincarnation is a valid concept, might the Horus/Jesus story have repeated in some sort of a cyclical ritual? I'm trying to figure out the best next step for Christianity. I'm continuing to consider 1. The Red-Letter Teachings of Jesus. 2. The U.S. Constitution. 3. The Latin Mass. 4. Sacred Classical Music. 5. Dropping the BS. The Protestants are more Roman Catholic than they realize - and all of Christendom is indebted to Pre-Christian Paganism. But this doesn't mean that there isn't right and wrong - and that there is no afterlife or reincarnation. I simply expect to get recycled back into the madness in this solar system - which is why I am trying to make it a better place for all concerned. BTW - that pretty lady seems to be quite happy with the situation - as does the little child in the middle! The sheep, goats, and rams were being raped right and left. It was really baaaaaaaad!

    Hey, you have more consideration for sheep, goats, and rams being raped than for women who have been raped and mythology is full of it. It makes me think. Shocked

    As I said earlier, you need to go to mythology and the original sources to find out where Maxwell is wrong. We got minds for a reason. Heh heh

    You still want to be stuck with religions and religious myths rather than looking for truth. Insanely Happy It is your choice but I am not interested in that kind of discussion as you may clearly see on my tread The Horns of Moses. I have also given some clue where to look further about reincarnation. But I am not interested in influencing people what I think but stimulate them through mythology and art to think for themselves and to do own research. Art is the best as it helps to access the right brain where the emotions and insights originate.

    Are we talking reality or mythology? How seriously should we take mythology? No specifics regarding Maxwell? Which Teaching of Christ do you wish to take issue with? Is reincarnation real? What happens when we die? I have more interest in Roman Catholic art, architecture, and music than I do in their church councils and pontifications. I'm thinking of the Latin Mass more as an artistic expression - than as a theological milestone. The Teachings Attributed to Jesus Christ make a helluva lot of sense - regardless of their source. And even if they turn out to be mostly untrue - they would still be an excellent mental and spiritual exercise. People will run from one perceived House of Refuge to another. When religion is destroyed - one should make damn sure that they have something better to put in it's place...
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    Re: Very Interesting Jordan Maxwell Interview

    Post  starninja on Sat May 21, 2011 4:06 pm

    orthodoxymoron wrote:

    Are we talking reality or mythology? How seriously should we take mythology? No specifics regarding Maxwell? Which Teaching of Christ do you wish to take issue with? Is reincarnation real? What happens when we die? I have more interest in Roman Catholic art, architecture, and music than I do in their church councils and pontifications. I'm thinking of the Latin Mass more as an artistic expression - than as a theological milestone. The Teachings Attributed to Jesus Christ make a helluva lot of sense - regardless of their source. And even if they turn out to be mostly untrue - they would still be an excellent mental and spiritual exercise. People will run from one perceived House of Refuge to another. When religion is destroyed - one should make damn sure that they have something better to put in it's place...

    How seriously we can take mythology? Well, it is truth to the same degree as any religion. Big Grin 2 You may choose blindly believe in any religion whether it is Christianity, Eastern religion, or ascended masters. Or you may start asking questions and search. But it sounds that my post about Mithra, Vedic Mitra and Christanity didn't help you. Insanely Happy BTW, if you are not interested where Maxwell is wrong and search by yourself, it is your choice and I am not going to do your homework. Don’t you think that going to the original sources and finding by yourself is more reliable that trusting me. Bleh You still haven’t answered why you are more interested in raping goats and sheep rather than raping women. Shocked

    I ask very different questions than you. I have many questions but let's ask a few.

    Why saints have black aureoles.







    Birth of St. Francis, Prophecy of the Birth by a Pilgrim, Homage of the Simple Man. 1452. Fresco. San Francesco, Montefalco, Italy.







    Renunciation of Worldly Goods and The Bishop of Assisi Dresses St. Francis. 1452. Fresco, San Francesco, Montefalco, Italy.







    Stigmatization of St. Francis. 1452. Fresco. San Francesco, Montefalco, Italy.



    What bull does in chapel? Oooyeah 1




    St. Luke.The Four Evangelists. 1464/65. Fresco. Vault of Apsidal Chapel of Sant' Agostino, San Gimignano, Italy








    Mithra, Vatican






    Hermes Kriophoros






    Hermes Kriophoros



    I have many more questions that I have been trying to address at the Horns of Moses.

    I am not interested in meaningless discussion that goes nowhere. Insanely Happy if you are really interested in seeking truth you may meet me at my tread. But not with empty words but research. lol!
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    Re: Very Interesting Jordan Maxwell Interview

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Sat May 21, 2011 11:20 pm

    I am interested in contemporary thinking, so when I ask you questions, this is part of an ongoing research project. I'd love to chat, but it's time to separate the sheep from the goats...
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    Re: Very Interesting Jordan Maxwell Interview

    Post  starninja on Sun May 22, 2011 4:10 pm

    orthodoxymoron wrote:

    I am interested in contemporary thinking, so when I ask you questions, this is part of an ongoing research project. I'd love to chat, but it's time to separate the sheep from the goats...

    I don't like chat when I look for the truth. Chat may turn into exchange of....brain farts. Insanely Happy

    Time to separate sheep from the goats....... Time to separate women from the goats...ops.... I mean god Pan and satyr. Big Grin 2


    Venus and Satyr, Sebastiano Ricci

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    Re: Very Interesting Jordan Maxwell Interview

    Post  starninja on Sun May 22, 2011 10:32 pm

    Orthodoxymoron wrote:

    When religion is destroyed - one should make damn sure that they have something better to put in it's place...

    Your words made me think. I have looked at Etymology of the word "Religion"


    By Gary Amirault

    Webster's Collegiate Dictionary traces the word back to an old Latin word religio meaning "taboo, restraint." A deeper study discovers the word comes from the two words re and ligare. Re is a prefix meaning "return," and ligare means "to bind;" in other words, "return to bondage." Do you still want some of that "old-time religion"?
    http://www.tentmaker.org/Dew/Dew1/D1-EtymologyOfReligion.html


    Bondage means: the state of being under the control of another person
    Synonyms: slavery, thrall, thralldom, thraldom


    So, replacing religion with something better as you said means keeping us in bondage, slavery, or controlled. It would only change the name of our state of being controlled or a slave. We need to free our minds from any bondage whether it is Christianity, Eastern religion, or neo pagan religions. But many "spiritual teachers" don't call neo pagan religions as religion but... spirituality. But it is religion and it binds people back like any other religious system. Naughty
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    Re: Very Interesting Jordan Maxwell Interview

    Post  Carol on Sun May 22, 2011 10:46 pm

    While I have given up on religion - faith and walking the spiritual path IMPO supersedes religious doctrine. Sorry Oxy, but politics is corrupt at every level and religion is no different. Take away ego and power structures - and one might discover the spiritual path within.

    I've listend to Jorden Maxwell over the years and think him very knowledgable but is his knowledge based on truth? I'm sure he believes what he knows - I just don't buy his brand of structure. Enlightenment means letting structures fall away and is a direct experience of essence sans ego and even intellect. Jordan doesn't strike me as a happy person. With everything he knows.. does it really serve him and help him along his spiritual path or does it hinder him?



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    Re: Very Interesting Jordan Maxwell Interview

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Mon May 23, 2011 9:30 am

    OK - no politics, no religion, no Jordan Maxwell. The total breakdown of societal structure - including the legal system - should lead us to Nirvana! Anarchy = Paradise! I'm feeling better already! Very Happy Seriously - when one stops trying to improve politics and religion - I think there is a euphoric exhilaration. Unfortunately, I think we need some form of politics and religion. I favor positively reinforcing the best of the past, with a Minimalist Traditionalist approach, as an evolutionary methodology of reforming admittedly corrupt societal structures. Letting go of politics and religion, on an individual basis, probably works, at least for a while - but on a global level, I think we're stuck with politics and religion. I will continue to contemplate idealistic conceptualizations of church and state - and the proper relationship between church and state. I will also continue to contemplate a perfected humanity, living in a perfected solar system. I doubt that this is going to happen anytime soon. In fact, we might be very lucky to simply survive...


    Last edited by orthodoxymoron on Mon May 23, 2011 10:05 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Very Interesting Jordan Maxwell Interview

    Post  Carol on Mon May 23, 2011 9:56 am

    Well there you go. Just proves that when the caterpillar has transformed, the chrysalis (structure) is no longer needed and the butterfly is truly free to spread its wings. What is important (kindness to others and the earth and all of the earths creatures) is something that must be internalized before one is ready to break free.


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    Re: Very Interesting Jordan Maxwell Interview

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Mon May 23, 2011 10:23 am

    As the general public learns more of the horrible historical abuses of church and state - and as they find out more and more about the New World Order - and as they are adversely affected by it - there may very well be anarchy - complete with running in the streets. Then the noose might get a lot tighter. I have been doing a lot of dreaming on another thread - and I feel quite comfortable with many of my conclusions - but I don't have a clue regarding how and when to implement them. Great ideas can be horribly botched. It seems as though the New World Order is being installed in a very sloppy and shoddy manner. I have huge problems with the Old World Order and the New World Order - but I think we need some sort of a World Order. In fact, I think we need a Solar System Order or a New Solar System. But as we all know, the road to hell is paved with good intentions...

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