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    Truth Is A Pathless Land

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    SuiGeneris

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    Truth Is A Pathless Land

    Post  SuiGeneris on Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:42 pm

    Anchor, Mar 15 2010, 10:33 AM
    The order of the star was set up by the Theosophists as a vehicle for him to be thier "world teacher", but as its head he took a freewill decision to dissolve it and explains exactly why. All this happened nearly 80 years ago, but what he says today is as true as it ever was and always will be. Say what you will about him, the I am sure that following words (a masterpeice of language) will withstand all the tests.

    --
    Truth is a Pathless Land
    by J. Krishnamurti
    --

    We are going to discuss this morning the dissolution of the Order of the Star. Many will be delighted, and others will be rather sad. It is a question neither for rejoicing nor for sadness, because it is inevitable, as I am going to explain....

    I maintain that Truth is a pathless land, and you cannot approach it by any path whatsoever, by any religion, by any sect. That is my point of view, and I adhere to that absolutely and unconditionally. Truth, being limitless, unconditioned, unapproachable by any path whatsoever, cannot be organised; nor should any organisation be formed to lead or coerce people along any particular path. If you first understand that, then you will see how impossible it is to organise a belief. A belief is purely an individual matter, and you cannot and must not organise it. If you do, it becomes dead, crystallised; it becomes a creed, a sect, a religion, to be imposed on others.

    This is what everyone throughout the world is attempting to do. Truth is narrowed down and made a plaything for those who are weak, for those who are only momentarily discontented. Truth cannot be brought down, rather the individual must make the effort to ascend to it. You cannot bring the mountain-top to the valley....

    So that is the first reason, from my point of view, why the Order of the Star should be dissolved. In spite of this, you will probably form other Orders, you will continue to belong to other organisations searching for Truth. I do not want to belong to any organisation of a spiritual kind; please understand this....

    If an organisation be created for this purpose, it becomes a crutch, a weakness, a bondage, and must cripple the individual, and prevent him from growing, from establishing his uniqueness, which lies in the discovery for himself of that absolute, unconditioned Truth. So that is another reason why I have decided, as I happen to be the Head of the Order, to dissolve it.

    This is no magnificent deed, because I do not want followers, and I mean this. The moment you follow someone you cease to follow Truth. I am not concerned whether you pay attention to what I say or not. I want to do a certain thing in the world and I am going to do it with unwavering concentration. I am concerning myself with only one essential thing: to set man free. I desire to free him from all cages, from all fears, and not to found religions, new sects, nor to establish new theories and new philosophies. Then you will naturally ask me why I go the world over, continually speaking. I will tell you for what reason I do this; not because I desire a following, not because I desire a special group of special disciples. (How men love to be different from their fellow-men, however ridiculous, absurd and trivial their distinctions, may be! I do not want to encourage that absurdity.) I have no disciples, no apostles, either on earth or in the realm of spirituality.

    Nor is it the lure of money, nor the desire to live a comfortable life, which attracts me. If I wanted to lead a comfortable life I would not come to a Camp or live in a damp country! I am speaking frankly because I want this settled once and for all. I do not want these childish discussion year after year.

    A newspaper reporter, who interviewed me, considered it a magnificent act to dissolve an organisation in which there were thousands and thousands of members. To him it was a great act because he said: "What will you do afterwards, how will you live? You will have no following, people will no longer listen to you." If there are only five people who will listen, who will live, who have their faces turned towards eternity, it will be sufficient. Of what use is it to have thousands who do not understand, who are fully embalmed in prejudice, who do not want the new, but would rather translate the new to suit their own sterile, stagnant selves?....

    Because I am free, unconditioned, whole, not the part, not the relative, but the whole Truth that is eternal, I desire those, who seek to understand me, to be free, not to follow me, not to make out of me a cage which will become a religion, a sect. Rather should they be free from all fears - from the fear of religion, from the fear of salvation, from the fear of spirituality, from the fear of love, from the fear of death, from the fear of life itself. As an artist paints a picture because he takes delight in that painting, because it is his self-expression, his glory, his well-being, so I do this and not because I want any thing from anyone. You are accustomed to authority, or to the atmosphere of authority which you think will lead you to spirituality. You think and hope that another can, by his extraordinary powers - a miracle - transport you to this realm of eternal freedom which is Happiness. Your whole outlook on life is based on that authority.

    You have listened to me for three years now, without any change taking place except in the few. Now analyse what I am saying, be critical, so that you may understand thoroughly, fundamentally....

    For eighteen years you have been preparing for this event, for the Coming of the World Teacher. For eighteen years you have organised, you have looked for someone who would give a new delight to your hearts and minds, who would transform your whole life, who would give you a new understanding; for someone who would raise you to a new plane of life, who would give you new encouragement, who would set you free - and now look what is happening! Consider, reason with yourselves, and discover in what way that belief has made you different - not with the superficial difference of the wearing of a badge, which is trivial, absurd. In what manner has such a belief swept away all unessential things of life? That is the only way to judge: in what way are you freer, greater, more dangerous to every society which is based on the false and the unessential? In what way have the members of this organisation of the Star become different?....

    You are all depending for your spirituality on someone else, for your happiness on someone else, for your enlightenment on someone else.... when I say look within yourselves for the enlightenment, for the glory, for the purification, and for the incorruptibility of the self, not one of you is willing to do it. There may be a few, but very, very few. So why have an organisation?....

    No man from outside can make you free; nor can organised worship, nor the immolation of yourselves for a cause, make you free; nor can forming yourselves into an organisation, nor throwing yourselves into work, make you free. You use a typewriter to write letters, but you do not put it on an alter and worship it. But that is what you are doing when organisations become your chief concern. "How many members are there in it?" That is the first question I am asked by all newspaper reporters. "How many followers have you? By their number we shall judge whether what you say is true or false." I do not know how many there are. I am not concerned with that. If there were even one man who had been set free, that were enough....

    Again, you have the idea that only certain people hold the key to the Kingdom of Happiness. No one holds it. No one has the authority to hold that key. That key is your own self, and in the development and the purification and in the incorruptibility of that self alone is the Kingdom of Eternity....

    You have been accustomed to being told how far you have advanced, what is your spiritual status. How childish! Who but yourself can tell you if you are incorruptible?....

    But those who really desire to understand, who are looking to find that which is eternal, without a beginning and without an end, will walk together with greater intensity, will be a danger to everything that is unessential, to unrealities, to shadows. And they will concentrate, they will become the flame, because they understand. Such a body we must create, and that is my purpose. Because of that true friendship - which you do not seem to know - there will be real co-operation on the part of each one. And this not because of authority, not because of salvation, but because you really understand, and hence are capable of living in the eternal. This is a greater thing than all pleasure, than all sacrifice.

    So those are some of the reasons why, after careful consideration for two years, I have made this decision. It is not from a momentary impulse. I have not been persuaded to it by anyone - I am not persuaded in such things. For two years I have been thinking about this, slowly, carefully, patiently, and I have now decided to disband the Order, as I happen to be its Head. You can form other organisations and expect someone else. With that I am not concerned, nor with creating new cages, new decorations for those cages. My only concern is to set men absolutely, unconditionally free.
    --
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    SuiGeneris

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    Re: Truth Is A Pathless Land

    Post  SuiGeneris on Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:43 pm

    Kulapops, Mar 15 2010, 10:48 AM
    Great speech and great post.

    Thank you Anchor,

    I always thought that speech in the Life of Brian was equally eloquent..."You're all individuals.. you don't need me or anyone to tell you how to live. . . "

    And so I think, the dissolution going on at Avalon (if one can call it that) is because, that kind of structure is not inherently healthy long term. People get comfortable, spiritually, and then they are not being the people they need to be.

    For that reason, I don't know how long this forum will exist, if it's not the main 'pathway' to truth (oh.. there are no pathways... dang!) that life and the universe seems to be guiding us just now. But I applaud the caring motivation and attempt at creating a community for all that is not exclusive.

    Thanks for an enlightnening read.

    K
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    Re: Truth Is A Pathless Land

    Post  SuiGeneris on Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:44 pm

    Adv, Mar 15 2010, 01:52 PM
    Anchor,

    I'm not sure if my reference to this in the bigger thread caused you to research this and post it, or you were thinking the same thing ( synchronicity ).

    I agree it's a masterpiece. I hope to share my thoughts on this thread this week.

    Later.


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    Re: Truth Is A Pathless Land

    Post  SuiGeneris on Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:45 pm

    Realitty=Check, Mar 15 2010, 01:55 PM

    As an aside. Although I have never researched the family tree my Grandfather insisted we are related to one his patriarchs. Nuff said.


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    SuiGeneris

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    Re: Truth Is A Pathless Land

    Post  SuiGeneris on Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:46 pm

    Bigmo, Mar 15 2010, 02:44 PM

    That was beautiful and a very interesting read Anchor thanks for posting.

    Peace
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    Re: Truth Is A Pathless Land

    Post  SuiGeneris on Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:46 pm

    Blacklight43, Mar 15 2010, 03:05 PM

    I thank you all so much. I am finding so much high vibration and inspiration here this morning.
    Blessings to all.
    It's all good.


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    "In your struggle with Duality...us vs. them... just know, there is only us"
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    Re: Truth Is A Pathless Land

    Post  SuiGeneris on Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:47 pm

    MP3, Mar 15 2010, 04:32 PM

    I love that little Krishnamurti guy. Talk about time traveller!!

    One of the guys on St Clair's forum encoded the 18 hour video set of interviews between Krishnamurti and A Theology professor (I think) named Anderson, into digital format, and made them available.

    I further converted to mp3 only so I could spend my days with him while working, for a time.

    I have the MP3's (feel like I'm talking about myself. Shut up you. No, you shut up...why I ought to. nyuk nyuk.) available, and may upload them for sharing at some point, if enough interest.
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    Re: Truth Is A Pathless Land

    Post  SuiGeneris on Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:48 pm

    Adv, Mar 15 2010, 04:38 PM

    QUOTE (MP3 @ Mar 15 2010, 04:32 PM)
    I love that little Krishnamurti guy. Talk about time traveller!!

    One of the guys on St Clair's forum encoded the 18 hour video set of interviews between Krishnamurti and A Theology professor (I think) named Anderson, into digital format, and made them available.

    I further converted to mp3 only so I could spend my days with him while working, for a time.

    I have the MP3's (feel like I'm talking about myself. Shut up you. No, you shut up...why I ought to. nyuk nyuk.) available, and may upload them for sharing at some point, if enough interest.

    MP3,

    I just finished reading his biography back in December. the man went through a lot of roller coasters in his life.

    In my opinion, he conquered one of the most basic yet dangerous aspects of our existence, the human ego.

    That's a thread in itself too.

    Unless ... Anchor starts one before me .... tongue.gif


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    Re: Truth Is A Pathless Land

    Post  SuiGeneris on Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:50 pm

    Mar 15 2010, 06:20 PM

    Jiddu Krishnamurti is indeed a great teacher. An extraordinary teacher!

    I say is because his energy is very much alive. I love the way he teaches children in this series of videos:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSqzkGyxpmc
    All teaching/learning environment should be like this. What do you want to learn today? There's so much love in him. Never imposing anything to a child or to anyone for that matter. Not only that, but telling them: It's ok to be "nothing"; It's ok to be whatever their hearts' desire. Of course if people would want to fit into today's society this advise would sound ludicrous/unrealistic, ...Oh but he knew that "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society"

    Absolutely marvelous! Big Grin 3


    Love,

    SuiG♥️
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    Re: Truth Is A Pathless Land

    Post  SuiGeneris on Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:50 pm

    Carmen, Mar 15 2010, 06:49 PM

    This is a great speech Anchor, thankyou for posting it. I have read some of Krishnamurti's work over the years but never read that speech before. I knew he had been groomed from quite a young age to take over the leadership of the Theosophical Society. This speech was his stepping down from that? I never understand a lot of what Krishnamurti wrote years ago when I read (or attempted to read) his work, but now I do. What he writes is soo true and so relevant to what has been happening on Avalon and also in the world at large. Spiritual truths can never be organised or contained in any way. They have to be free and openended. Spirituality and therefore spiritually minded people demand this. Our inner guidance, our inner authority is our standard. Our truth, our integrity, our honour is the touchstone, the Godself, within us.

    Love
    smile.gif

    Carmen
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    Re: Truth Is A Pathless Land

    Post  SuiGeneris on Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:51 pm

    Nebula, Mar 15 2010, 08:20 PM

    Anchor thanks, for posting this. I love Krishnamurti's thoughts and perspectives, he is truly one of a kind. I would recommend him to everyone smile.gif Infact we should have a thread just dedicated to Krishnamurti! what do you guys think?

    MP3, i'm down.. make it happen.


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    Accepting the truth is hard.
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    Re: Truth Is A Pathless Land

    Post  SuiGeneris on Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:51 pm

    Anchor, Mar 15 2010, 10:33 PM

    QUOTE (MP3 @ Mar 15 2010, 04:32 PM)
    I love that little Krishnamurti guy. Talk about time traveller!!

    One of the guys on St Clair's forum encoded the 18 hour video set of interviews between Krishnamurti and A Theology professor (I think) named Anderson, into digital format, and made them available.

    I further converted to mp3 only so I could spend my days with him while working, for a time.

    I have the MP3's (feel like I'm talking about myself. Shut up you. No, you shut up...why I ought to. nyuk nyuk.) available, and may upload them for sharing at some point, if enough interest.

    I watched some on you tube, but I would love the audio on my iPod.
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    Re: Truth Is A Pathless Land

    Post  SuiGeneris on Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:52 pm

    Anchor, Mar 15 2010, 10:35 PM

    QUOTE (Adv @ Mar 15 2010, 01:52 PM)
    Anchor,

    I'm not sure if my reference to this in the bigger thread caused you to research this and post it, or you were thinking the same thing ( synchronicity ).

    I agree it's a masterpiece. I hope to share my thoughts on this thread this week.

    Later.

    I saw your reference, but I had saved many of my own favourite posts from Avalon.

    This post was posted on avalon in 2008 and was read a lot but received no comments. Eventually someone moved it to the Archived Threads subforum where it rotted.

    I am pleased to see it resonates well here.
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    Re: Truth Is A Pathless Land

    Post  SuiGeneris on Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:52 pm

    Mp3, Mar 16 2010, 03:29 AM

    QUOTE (Anchor @ Mar 15 2010, 10:33 PM)
    QUOTE (MP3 @ Mar 15 2010, 04:32 PM)
    I love that little Krishnamurti guy. Talk about time traveller!!

    One of the guys on St Clair's forum encoded the 18 hour video set of interviews between Krishnamurti and A Theology professor (I think) named Anderson, into digital format, and made them available.

    I further converted to mp3 only so I could spend my days with him while working, for a time.

    I have the MP3's (feel like I'm talking about myself. Shut up you. No, you shut up...why I ought to. nyuk nyuk.) available, and may upload them for sharing at some point, if enough interest.

    I watched some on you tube, but I would love the audio on my iPod.

    Will it to be so and so it will be, and I forget the rest. so here's the first installment.

    One of eighteen.

    mediafire.com ?z2wiynmzkdy
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    Re: Truth Is A Pathless Land

    Post  SuiGeneris on Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:53 pm

    Nebula, Mar 16 2010, 03:45 AM

    QUOTE (MP3 @ Mar 15 2010, 08:29 PM)
    QUOTE (Anchor @ Mar 15 2010, 10:33 PM)
    QUOTE (MP3 @ Mar 15 2010, 04:32 PM)
    I love that little Krishnamurti guy. Talk about time traveller!!

    One of the guys on St Clair's forum encoded the 18 hour video set of interviews between Krishnamurti and A Theology professor (I think) named Anderson, into digital format, and made them available.

    I further converted to mp3 only so I could spend my days with him while working, for a time.

    I have the MP3's (feel like I'm talking about myself. Shut up you. No, you shut up...why I ought to. nyuk nyuk.) available, and may upload them for sharing at some point, if enough interest.

    I watched some on you tube, but I would love the audio on my iPod.

    Will it to be so and so it will be, and I forget the rest. so here's the first installment.

    One of eighteen.

    mediafire.com ?z2wiynmzkdy

    I'm already downloading. Thanks so much MP3.


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    Re: Truth Is A Pathless Land

    Post  SuiGeneris on Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:53 pm

    Mp3, Mar 16 2010, 03:53 AM

    You're welcome. I just started uploading the second one and noticed the title. "Knowledge and Conflict in Human Relationships."

    coincidence, no doubt.
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    Re: Truth Is A Pathless Land

    Post  SuiGeneris on Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:54 pm

    Mp3, Mar 16 2010, 04:00 AM

    Here's part 2 of 18

    mediafire.com ?y1mjewjd0gt
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    Re: Truth Is A Pathless Land

    Post  SuiGeneris on Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:54 pm

    Nebula, Mar 16 2010, 04:30 AM

    QUOTE (MP3 @ Mar 15 2010, 08:53 PM)
    You're welcome. I just started uploading the second one and noticed the title. "Knowledge and Conflict in Human Relationships."

    coincidence, no doubt.

    biggrin.gif No coincidence there my friend. Will dwld pt2 shortly. Much thanks again.


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    Re: Truth Is A Pathless Land

    Post  SuiGeneris on Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:55 pm

    MP3, Mar 16 2010, 12:58 PM


    Part 3 of 18 is called "What is communication with others?"

    Looking through this collection again is showing me how synchronistic this thread is. Thanks Anchor. Listening in again a bit as I check files, I'm struck by something that stuck in my craw a bit on first listen. Krishnamurti is being interviewed by a theology professor. OMG!!!!! It's hilarious watching him move through that intellectual maze tossed at him, and stay on point. And if you follow through to the end of the series, just watch at the harmony Krishnamurti is able to create between the most Black and White sides of nearly everything discussed.

    What a master.

    mediafire.com ?dy0jettwde0
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    Re: Truth Is A Pathless Land

    Post  SuiGeneris on Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:56 pm

    MP3, Mar 16 2010, 01:15 PM

    #4 of 18 is called "What is a responsible Human Being?"

    mediafire.com ?ymd12m0igjt
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    Re: Truth Is A Pathless Land

    Post  SuiGeneris on Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:57 pm

    MP3, Mar 16 2010, 01:29 PM

    #5 of 18 "Order comes from Understanding".

    mediafire.com ?qamnycdddyz
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    Re: Truth Is A Pathless Land

    Post  SuiGeneris on Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:57 pm

    MP3, Mar 16 2010, 01:39 PM

    #6 of 18. "The Nature and the eradication of Fear".

    mediafire.com ?jmw0h2lcd5m
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    Re: Truth Is A Pathless Land

    Post  SuiGeneris on Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:58 pm

    MP3, Mar 16 2010, 01:52 PM

    #7 of 18. "Understanding, not controlling, desire".

    mediafire.com ?zkmojoxdtgn
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    Re: Truth Is A Pathless Land

    Post  SuiGeneris on Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:59 pm

    MP3, Mar 16 2010, 02:05 PM

    #8 of 18. "Does pleasure bring happiness?"

    mediafire.com ?mdke1dmy0mb
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    Re: Truth Is A Pathless Land

    Post  SuiGeneris on Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:59 pm

    MP3, Mar 16 2010, 02:22 PM

    #9 of 18. "Sorrow, Passion, and Beauty".

    mediafire.com ?tvkzhngzzim

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