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    The United States of the Solar System: A.D. 2133 (Book One)


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    Re: The United States of the Solar System: A.D. 2133 (Book One)

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Thu Mar 26, 2015 10:42 pm

    What if people carried a 1928 Book of Common Prayer with them (most of the time) and read it whenever and wherever possible?? What if people rarely attended church (while reading daily from the BCP)?? What if church attendance stifles and smothers spirituality?? Am I a Godless or Satanic Heretic because of my internet posting and lack of regular church attendance?? Is considering as many possibilities as possible a mortal sin (or just a venial sin)?? Shouldn't people benefit spiritually and socially from nearly all reasonable and responsible activities?? Is it really possible to pray without ceasing?? Has anyone gone the extra-mile with me on this thread?? Is this thread the Road to Utopia or the Highway to Hell?? If we came from the monkeys and the snakes -- is it really THAT much worse than just coming from the monkeys?? If God is what we were before we became Human -- is that really such a crisis?? Is creative-thinking a threat to national-security?? Why do so many churches seem so irreverent?? Why are so many religious people so defensive when they are asked questions about what they say they believe?? Why is this thread 'Dead in the Water'?? Don't worry -- I've pledged to end this thread by the end of August. Actually, I intend to finish the reposting and most of the editing by the end of July. I plan to spend August applying the finishing-touches. Remember -- this is not a definitive work. It is a work in progress. It is an experiment and a study-guide. BTW -- I went to a car-race today -- and discovered that someone I know personally is a damn-good race-car driver -- and I had NO idea!! I talked to them in the pits. There were even a Porsche 917K and a couple of Ford GT40's racing today!! If I had the time and money I would do Live-Steam and Vintage Auto-Racing. Siriusly. Saving the Solar System and the Human Race are SO Overrated!! Work out your OWN salvation with fear and trembling. I need to take another look at Alex Collier. I like him -- and I think he reveals a lot of forbidden-stuff -- but I think the "good-stuff" is mixed with "utter-bullshit" -- but that's just my bias. I keep wondering if the "Bad-Guys" somehow got removed after 9/11 -- and if so -- I wonder if the "New-Guys" are any better??!! Doesn't it take "Bad-Guys" and/or "Bad-Gals" to remove and/or replace "Bad-Guys" and/or "Bad-Gals"??!! "Good-Guys" and/or "Good-Gals" might not survive for long as "Guardians of the Galaxy"!! I keep wondering if this is a Nasty and Violent Universe (but I so hope that it's not).

    Aquaries1111 wrote:
    orthodoxymoron wrote:
    Aquaries1111 wrote:Oxy wrote:  I'd really like to meet with people who are experts in Solar System Governance -- especially pertaining to International, Interplanetary, and Intergalactic Law. Extensive knowledge of Solar System Security and Unconventional Weapons Systems would be of great value. In case you haven't noticed -- a lot of this thread involves bluffing and role-playing. This is sort of a most-dangerous game. I wonder if there is anyone who has been tasked with studying this thread?? I'm not very bright (in this incarnation anyway) -- but the subjects and concepts I have introduced are quite involved, and very deep. My own thread is WAY over my head. I have no idea whether I'm making things better -- or making things worse. I have no idea if I'm a reincarnational good-guy -- or bad-guy. I really don't.

    I'd really like you to meet people (Human and otherwise) who are experts in Solar System Governance -- A mind like yours really does need to be connected with if to reach full creative potential.. No feedback can also mean no growth.. and I do agree with Mall in that this place wouldn't be the same without you, but I know your frustrations.. I have my own.. I'd like to connect with people (human and otherwise) who I can communicate with on other issues of understanding.. I never was one for coming up with systems.. I personally like to knock them all down..  

    I asked Frank O'Collins how OBE's fit into the Ucadia system and he led me to Cognitive Law, article 55 which was titled "Remote Viewing".. I didn't find much information there at all and left that article more frustrated than when I arrived.. I don't think anyone has the answers for us.. I realized, unless a person walks a day in our shoes, maybe they'll never really know what is going on with us.. why at times it does get so lonely on this planet.. I consider myself an energetic healer and do much work in the dream states.. Am I purely living in my own imagination? Perhaps.. but it's all real to me nonetheless and when I am faced to perform exorcisms, healings and manifest limbs back onto people who have had them removed (i.e. a left hand), without the knowledge of knowing what the heck I am doing.. just knowing that I can and I do.. makes me ask "myself" questions I cannot pose to others here.. and so I go on day to day, like you Oxy, wondering if the spinning of my mind is creating more chaos or more clarity.. I don't know what I am doing either.. but I still wake up in the morning, brush my teeth, comb my hair and smile once in a while.. and if I feel motivated I'll go to the beach.. Today I'm going to the beach and plan on having a superb day in the Sun and with my Son..

    I've been on Frank O'Collins call for the last 3 weeks now and had questions.  He has answered me or directed me in the right direction to every one of my questions.. I think he might be at least one of these people you could have some mental stimulating fun with in finding answers or helping you contemplate more questions.. Personally, I'd rather not contemplate anymore unless I at least get "some answers", "somewhere" from "someone" but then again we wouldn't need answers if we didn't have questions, and where is somewhere? and someone? another ourself? So what is this all about.. ?  Thoughts create energy and where does this energy go? I'm going to stop thinking a little today and lay in the sand, wiggle my toes, find some shells, swim in the water and eat some icecream.. Oh yeh.. It's time to have some jolly fun again.. Happy Day to you Oxy..

    magamud wrote:

    Once again, this is mostly a guessing-game. I am too tired to do proper research. This is mostly intuitive-catharsis. There's Heinz 57 varieties  of claims regarding the 'way things are' -- so spin the bottle. I just thought of a cool sign!! Instead of 'Beware of the Dog' -- how about 'Beware of the Kraken'?! I just thought of something else. Imagine the Psalms, Proverbs, and Gospels in the context of Ancient Babylon and Egypt OR the Garden of Eden. Look for the Ten-Commandments in the Psalms, Proverbs, and Gospels. Look for the Sacrificial-System and the Substitutionary-Atonement in the Psalms, Proverbs, and Gospels. Imagine Joseph, Moses, David, and Jesus as being the same character (with Isis lurking in the shadows) in the context of Ancient Egypt. Is the Torah really "To Ra"?? I enjoy reading the Scriptures -- but I think we're just being given what 'They' want us to have -- which is a distorted and deceptive version of the REAL story behind the Bible and the Biblical Characters and Events. I can hardly stand dealing with this madness any longer. I talked to a Seminarian yesterday regarding a Cliff-Notes version of my milder ideas -- and they did not resonate with what I was talking about. We were on completely different frequencies. I have NO idea which might've been the "Right" Frequency. I guess that's one reason why I don't go to church anymore. I really do not wish to be a 'Problem'. I'll continue dealing with a lot of the madness after I quit posting -- but it will be My Solitary Vice. What Would Onan the Barbarian Say?? What Would Oedipus Do?? I should stop. I'm silly-tired because I went to that car-race instead of sleeping yesterday. I'm on the verge of becoming a "There's no problem -- everything is fine" kind of guy.

    magamud wrote:

    Malletzky wrote:

    Oxy, I can only encourage you to stop listening to what other people have to say about you, especially when it comes to "think within certain limits". Do not even think about to think within limits please. Nor should any human being ever limit itself in any particular fragment of their lifes, as we're limitless. It's only their fears and ignorance when some people tell you to think within certain limits. And don't worry about your perceptions: it's only perceptions halt. Nothing more and nothing less. You know that basicly, we all tend to have our own perceptions of what and who we realy are, but when we ask about or hear the perceptions of others towards us, we're surprised to see that actually, these are prety different. I may tell you only this: I was traveling these last 3-4 weeks and spoken to some people (some very dear friends of mine) and you might be surprised (as I was) that there are people "out there" in the real world that realy read and somehow appreciate what you write here. Without you, this place would not be the same. Much respect as allways to you dear freind. Mall...
    Thank-you Malletzky. It just seems as if there are vast areas of research and thought which are 'off-limits' -- or which cause everyone to become VERY nervous. I understand 'reasonable limits' -- but often the limits are not reasonable. Bad things are often permitted (really sick porn for example) -- while good things are restricted or censored (the truth about various individuals, topics, and events -- which might go a long way toward cleaning-up the mess we're in).
    Aquaries1111 wrote:I never was one for coming up with systems.. I personally like to knock them all down..I asked Frank O'Collins how OBE's fit into the Ucadia system and he led me to Cognitive Law, article 55 which was titled "Remote Viewing".. I didn't find much information there at all and left that article more frustrated than when I arrived.. I don't think anyone has the answers for us.. I realized, unless a person walks a day in our shoes, maybe they'll never really know what is going on with us.. why at times it does get so lonely on this planet.. I consider myself an energetic healer and do much work in the dream states.. Am I purely living in my own imagination? Perhaps.. but it's all real to me nonetheless and when I am faced to perform exorcisms, healings and manifest limbs back onto people who have had them removed (i.e. a left hand), without the knowledge of knowing what the heck I am doing.. just knowing that I can and I do.. makes me ask "myself" questions I cannot pose to others here.. and so I go on day to day, like you Oxy, wondering if the spinning of my mind is creating more chaos or more clarity.. I don't know what I am doing either.. but I still wake up in the morning, brush my teeth, comb my hair and smile once in a while.. and if I feel motivated I'll go to the beach.. Today I'm going to the beach and plan on having a superb day in the Sun and with my Son..
    A1, what you said about manifesting limbs back onto people who have had them removed REALLY got my attention! This actually occurred?! What were the circumstances?? An exorcism is one thing -- but manifesting limbs is quite another! I understand that miracles occur -- but the how and why allude me. If one can be miraculously healed -- why not everyone?? I prayed for my father's healing (mostly back, neck, and heart) for years -- with no results -- and this left me a bit bitter -- because I kept reading about miracles and an 'All Powerful God' in the Bible. It also seemed as if the Shouting and Strutting Television Faith-Healers got all the results and glory. This was a bit confusing and frustrating for a sincere teenager -- seeking to do God's Will -- with great devotion. I gradually came to the conclusion that I was not liked by Divinity or Humanity -- and actually hated by both when I was open and honest. Is there somewhere in the Universe which will embrace me when I'm open and honest?? I doubt it.

    Thank-you for that EXCELLENT music video, A1. Notice the videos on the right-side of the screen! I keep trying to stop this quest -- and just let everything sink-in and settle. I think I might need to just spend a year with the territory already covered. I just keep moving on and on and on -- without properly absorbing everything. That can't be good. Spending a lot of time with children and nature are probably a couple of the best things anyone can do. Sun! Fun! Stay! Play! Namaste and Have a Nice Day!!

    I once attended a lecture by Uri Geller -- in which is was very upset with James Randi!! We can argue about fraudulent whistleblowers, disinfo-agents, Nibiru hoaxes, Photoshopping, fearmongering, deception, problem>reaction>solution, corrupt politicians, ET, the PTB -- ect and et al -- but what about just thinking of the solar system as being filled with unconventional spacecraft, unconventional WMD's, strange beings, tunnels, mag-lev trains, subsurface bases, secret laboratories, conflicting agendas, power struggles, etc, etc, etc??? Welcome to my Sci-Fi Solar System. I truly do not know where the facts end -- and the fiction begins -- but I just mix it all together -- and try to make sense out of the resulting mess. I just treat all of this madness as Sci-Fi which MIGHT approximate reality.

    OK, someone didn't like my posting -- and shut-off my Wi-Fi access. Now I'm back to using the library computer. Could someone tell me what they didn't like?? How can I be THAT much of a problem, that I have to be shut-down??? I am a VERY passive researcher -- with NO insider contacts. I don't sneak around -- looking for forbidden knowledge. I really don't. I don't do ANYTHING creepy. I ONLY post on this little website -- in a rather restrained and tactful manner. I have promised NO surprises. I have requested that 'those in the know' turn appropriate aspects of this thread into something suitable for a broader audience -- if, and when, that might be helpful -- as I don't know what's REALLY going on. I have requested some sort of appropriate compensation -- with most of the profits (if any) going to worthy charity (such as ADRA). I have stated that I MIGHT write some Positive Science-Fiction which might be quite different than this thread -- but given my track-record -- this is VERY unlikely to occur. I am neither angry or fearful (although I am VERY concerned) -- and I am merely seeking a more sane version of that which presently exists. So what's the problem??

    Sorry. My Bad. I pressed the wrong button (f12) on my laptop -- and shut myself down. There I go again -- shooting myself in the foot. That's my specialty. Anyway, I'll leave the previous paragraph, for the record. I've mostly left this thread unedited -- even though I could improve it -- and remove numerous contradictions and possible errors. This is a journey which I wish to have properly and accurately documented -- warts and all.

    Back to business. Once again, consider watching 'Cleopatra', 'Stargate Continuum', and 'V' -- with the United States of the Solar System clearly in mind. Should various ET Races share this Solar System with Humanity -- or should it be mostly (or completely) Human?? Without knowing the Whole Story -- it's next to impossible to properly answer that question. I have included the 'Declaration of Human Sovereignty' in this thread -- but this mostly deals with keeping Hostile and Regressive Extraterrestrials out of this Solar System. It does not mandate 'Human Only'. It would sure be nice if someone actually discussed these issues with me. I am VERY disillusioned by the lack of meaningful conversation over the past couple of years. Why the silence?? Was I NOT supposed to begin figuring things out?? Did I spoil someone's plans -- or am I just shooting myself in the foot -- one more time???

    If I were younger and smarter -- I would aspire to emerge from this exercise as a combination of Dr. Who and James Bond. Do you understand why I am attempting to combine Extraterrestrials, Egypt, Rome, England, and Germany in this thread? I think we might be seeing the Sinister Side of a Noble Grand Plan. This is just a sneaking suspicion. Once again, where did we REALLY get all of the fancy technology, architecture, and music?? Do you see why I am trying to think in terms of a Reformed Roman Empire and Church??? The Protestants probably hate me for giving so much attention to the Catholics. The Catholics probably hate me for meddling with their religion. The Non-Christians probably hate me for seeming to side with the Christians. The Christians probably hate me for embracing Pagan Concepts -- and for criticizing Historical Christianity. Everyone has a Damn Good Reason to Hate Me. But I will continue to be Friend and Foe of Everyone -- Whether Anyone Likes It -- Or Not. It's a Nasty Task -- But Someone Must Do It. Or Must They???

    Once again -- this thread (and the links) are not intended to make you happy, give you what you want, or tell you what you wish to hear. All of this madness is intended to make all of us think. Don't look now -- but the Sirians Are Coming!!! I should sell "I Survived the Orthodoxymoron Threads!!" T-shirts -- but I'd probably have to sell them for a couple of bucks -- to a couple of humans -- and a couple of other-than-humans. I could wear my special T-shirt with my special Fedora (blessed or cursed by the Ancient Egyptian Deity).

    Who is the Apostle (Apostate?) Paul -- reincarnationally?? Who is Jesus -- reincarnationally?? Who is Amen Ra -- reincarnationally?? How might Moses, Aaron, and the God of the Old-Testament relate to these questions?? What about David and Solomon?? These are not rhetorical questions. I really don't know. We might be VERY surprised by "Who's Who in the Reincarnational Zoo". What would Adolph Hitler and Pope Pius XII say?? Nuff Said.  

    "The Sirians Are Coming!!! The Sirians Are Coming!!!"

    Last edited by orthodoxymoron on Fri Nov 13, 2015 4:14 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: The United States of the Solar System: A.D. 2133 (Book One)

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Fri Mar 27, 2015 4:40 pm

    Aquaries1111 wrote:Okay Orthodoxymoron!

    Enough is enough! What the hell is going on with you! You are like a Hamster on a repetitive wheel bout to fall off! Ground Hog Day! Have you seen that? Seriously I am beginning to wonder if you are in need of some external release in activities! Take a guess! Why are you repeating the past to the present to create a future? Are you? What is the intent of the past quotes? I am seriously worried about who I am even talking to? Have you seen this video clip? Seriously take a looky and a listen.. it may shed some light here for ALL in the Matrix of lies and illusions and filling the brain with garbage! Seriously, I am over your tick tocking of ancient ideas.. They hold no place in my space!

    Let's not forget this one from long time ago!

    A-1, I'm simply refining the territory I've already covered. I'm winding this thread down. Call it repetition. Call it closure. Call it catharsis. It matters not. I plan to move-on soon -- in a very private manner. This Hamster Dance is nearly over -- so things are looking up!! More Sherry Shriner!! I might even stop listening to Sherry. I plan to proceed in a very different direction -- but this will all be internal (rather than internet). Who knows?? I might even join a secret-society. So anyway, I'm nearing the end of this blast from the past, and I hope to mostly wrap things up by the end of July. BTW -- didn't Ernest Hemingway endlessly rewrite his work??

    A-1, It would be nice to know who you REALLY are!! I try to be neutral with most everyone I encounter in connection with the 'alternative-madness'. I never know who I'm REALLY dealing with. I don't say a lot of things that I could say -- and I'm sorry if this approach fails to meet expectations. It seems as if many whom I have encountered over the past several years start out almost too nice -- and then, at some point, they swing in the other direction, and actually become rather nasty. I think I'm being tested (possibly in more ways than I can imagine). Once again, I have very bad feelings about myself, humanity, and divinity. This solar system seems to be a war-zone. I think you might already know the whole story, A-1, but I certainly don't, and the people I'm attempting to educate probably don't either. I am merely presenting remote possibilities and roads less traveled.
    Aquaries1111 wrote:
    orthodoxymoron wrote:A1, what you said about manifesting limbs back onto people who have had them removed REALLY got my attention! This actually occurred?! What were the circumstances?? An exorcism is one thing -- but reattaching limbs is quite another! I understand that miracles occur -- but the how and why allude me. If one can be miraculously healed -- why not everyone?? I prayed for my father's healing (mostly back, neck, and heart) for years -- with no results -- and this left me a bit bitter -- because I kept reading about miracles and an 'All Powerful God' in the Bible. It also seemed as if the Shouting and Strutting Television Faith-Healers got all the results and glory. This was a bit confusing and frustrating for a sincere teenager -- seeking to do God's Will -- with great devotion. I gradually came to the conclusion that I was not liked by Divinity or Humanity -- and actually hated by both when I was open and honest. Is there somewhere in the Universe which will embrace me when I'm open and honest?? I doubt it.
    Yes Oxy this actually occurred, in the dream state OBE.. I remember being led to a room and there was a man facing me with his left hand gone.. I remember seeing blood but I was not repulsed, nor judgmental.  There was absolutely no verbal communication between us, nor telepathic. I just knew what I had to do and so I went up to the man and placed his wrist section in between my hands, my right hand on top, his in the middle and my left hand underneath.. There was no touch to his wrist and the next thing that happened - his hand literally grew back.. of course there was intention behind the healing, there always is.  I know this is impossible to do in this 3D reality and yet it all seems so easy to do in those other places.  I really don't think healing is a miracle.. some people need to go through illnesses to appreciate life more. Usually they return healthier if they have the desire to live and the appreciation of life to continue on.. yes I did say healthier, for it is when one falls ill that one comes out the other end usually healthier than ever before. Now why is this? Well each one has their own story to tell and share - if they want to, or not.  I remember going into a deep depression for 6 full months and I was only 22 years old.  I did not fight it, nor did I take any prescriptions.. actually, I truly didn't know any better - maybe sometimes this is the best way.. but I will say, when I came out of that depression I felt totally different, totally new, as if my entire perspective on life had changed.. I could see beauty in everything.

    Some people do not want to be healed Oxy.. some check out before they even fall ill because they do not want to go on in this reality and so their decision becomes manifest.. When one understands there is no death, only transition, then the passing of a loved one becomes one "in honor" of their life and "in honor" of their decisions.. there truly are no victims, even though at times past I would have disagreed.. I see NOW more angles.. and less of a victim than before.. Actually now I know I am not a victim.. Being responsible requires one to disrobe all thoughts of victimhood.. It's a big job to be responsible but if we cannot or will not be responsible then who will?  One Planet, Many Worlds.. why I could travel to Texas and visit a friend and wonder why their life is so different? Could it be the space they live in is the space they have created.. after all, we are our environment..

    I do not believe in "faith healers" Oxy.. The ones that you see on T.V. are usually fake.. True Healers you will never know about.. and you certainly won't see them on the telly. They work their gift in mysterious ways, always being in the right place at the right time when needed.. and they will never ever charge a penny for their gift.  Everyone has a gift.. not every gift is the same as the neighbors.. Each persons gift is to be respected and never ever compared.. This is why I think every person is important for the other's survival in some way.. We don't realize what the whole loses when a singular one is lost.. or when the singular one doesn't have the support to grow due to lack of community.

    Oxy says: Is there somewhere in the Universe which will embrace me when I'm open and honest?? I doubt it.

    Aquaries1111 asks: Is there someone you will embrace in the Universe when they are open and honest?
                                     **To embrace or not to embrace**
    Thank-you for your thoughtful and detailed reply, A1. I don't always say much in response to your posts -- but I always consider them carefully. My subsequent posts might reflect something I learned from your posts and links -- even if I don't specifically refer to them. With sophisticated holographic-technology -- a limb manifestation could be faked. A lot of things can be faked -- including Alien Invasions and the Second Coming of Christ. This doesn't mean that limbs can't be miraculously reattached, or that there won't be an Alien Invasion or the Second Coming of Christ. It simply means that we should be VERY discerning. I think I know which of the three you didn't like -- but my links are not recommendations or endorsements. They merely present a cross-section of what's out-there. I present a lot of things which I don't necessarily agree with. I don't necessarily like my style of writing or the language I sometimes use -- but remember, this thread is a Theatrical Science-Fictional Presentation -- rather than being a Revelation of My True Self. This is all about making all of us Think.
    lawlessline wrote:
    orthodoxymoron wrote:Floyd, you do an excellent job of spoiling all the fun -- but where should I go to find the 'truth'? I think I might've asked you this question previously -- but I can't remember.
    Floyd wrote:Im not sure fear mongering is fun. But the answers  may well be in inserting cheezie wotsits up your nostrils then telling you friends that you are starting a new fashion.
    That was funny, Floyd -- but you didn't answer my question.

    First things first Wotsits cause chaffing within the nostril I would suggest Nic Naks easier on the hair follicles and kinder to the skin.

    Oxy, Floyd didn't answer because I not sure he knows the answer to that one. I think that starting with yourself would be a good start. What you think and feel is the most important part. The truth will never come in a yes/No answer. But I prefer to find the answer in living my life. You can never go far wrong with that, and there is sooooooooo much BS from New age Jesus wannabes in the states and UK that it is very refreshing from time to time to be in france where they have their heads truely in the sand for everything. Peace bliss of ignorance, thats the french.

    But good lock with the truth and come back and tell us what you found.

    But in the mean time just be my friend.


    If I spoke French, and had lots of money, I think I might like to live in France. On the other hand, if I just sold what little I have, got new teeth, and rented a room in Paris, things might finally start looking up for me. I'd probably spend most of my time in the big Catholic Churches and Cathedrals -- writing Positive Science-Fiction. With all of the confusion and trouble in the world -- the French Cathedrals and Countryside are looking better all the time. What Would Lynne Davis Say?? (I spoke with her at Grace Cathedral regarding Hymn-Improvisation). I understand Floyd's cynicism and frustration -- and my threads reflect some of this emotion. I am NOT a happy-camper regarding the State of the World. However, I think it is important to at least attempt to point toward the 'Truth and the Light' -- rather than merely cursing the darkness. Namaste.

    orthodoxymoron wrote:
    Floyd wrote:
    orthodoxymoron wrote:I understand Floyd's cynicism and frustration -- and my threads reflect some of this emotion. .

    The thing is Oxy im not being cynical. Just rational. Niburu simply is not there period. Game Over

    I suggest watching this video by the author mentioned above which helps to take apart Sitchen's poorly researched, erratic and fabricated theories concerning Niburu.

    That is in addition to the total absence of any astronomical proof of Niburu.

    Its pretty straight forward stuff really.
    There is Constructive Rationalism and Cynical Rationalism. I tend to lean toward Liberals who know how to get along with Conservatives. Even if 'Nibiru' doesn't exist (and I don't know this to be the case) the solar system could contain thousands of hollowed-out asteroids, planetoids, and moons. This possibility really isn't that far-fetched. I keep getting the feeling that Sirius-Orion-Aldebaran-????? is VERY concerned with the situation in this solar system. I have no proof -- but that doesn't mean that possibilities can't be realities -- and I try to approximate reality.
    I keep getting the sinking feeling that Humanity has not ultimately been managed by Humans for thousands of years -- for whatever reasons (legitimate or otherwise) -- and that Banking and Taxation have been at the center of this Hypothetical Management System. Whoever and Whatever is behind this probably does NOT wish to be exposed and deposed. I worry about poison-pills and scorched-earth policies. I also worry about whether Humanity is capable of ruling Humanity -- despite my calls for Human-Sovereignty and a United States of the Solar System. I really do NOT wish to be stubborn and stupid in this matter.
    Aquaries1111 wrote:How much do we really know about the Dogon Tribe, their secrets and the secrets of Sirius?... I would also like to point out that 9etheruniverse youtube channel has some other great videos you might wish to check out..

    A1, I side-stepped your 'limb-reattachment' experience -- because I don't know enough about it to pass judgment. You might have to purchase D'V'D's (get it?). It seems as if the PTB got very nervous when Robert Temple starting poking and prodding the Sirius-Dogon Mystery. Sirius and Africa seem to be at the center of a lot of things. What Would Credo Mutwa Say? BTW -- the Ancient Egyptian Deity was NOT Happy with Credo!! But the way they expressed their displeasure made me laugh!! I once laughed at the AED while they were in the middle of a difficult phone-call!! I just couldn't resist!! I once joked with the AED about a non-existent website called !!

    "Three T!t$?! That's Awesome!! Is This Somehow Related to the 'Third-Eye'?!"
    "Perhaps It's a 'T!t for Tat' (the little-guy)!!"
    Aquaries1111 wrote:Oxy you are way out of control. Not only have you hijacked my threads here to you but you insist on posting past tense. I seriously wonder why you look to "confuse" a "healthy mind" seriously! Come visit me in Florida! Are you able to talk?
    B.B.Baghor wrote:ortho's words: "I keep wondering if this is a Nasty and Violent Universe (but I so hope that it's not)"

    I like it that you join other discussions and threads here, ortho. Talking with each other. You seem less "up and away.....from earth" in that USSS, that way. I hope I haven't grown more towards "up and away" creating an illusion, of you being more down to earth. Ahem, I'm just being silly I guess.
    Also, as I pointed out in blue in my former post here, I think you deserve not to be alone, surfing the United States of the Solar System. I've never found such a great definition and title before, ortho

    The beauty and value of support and compassion nowadays, to me, is in this condition, one thing we have in common: it's the shared condition that we live in "times they are a changing" now showing up with strong evidence and signs. The intensity of it all, including the virtual world called internet, an instrument also supporting consciousness, by choice, creates such awareness, that it can't be ignored by our senses, without any exception. And in that condition the dawning of our interdependancy shows up, if we step on that path. Surrendering to a phase of great vulnerability

    It's not so bad, when we're not alone, surfing the USSS in this way. I do hope you're noticing the Misty companionship around you, here, ortho.
    orthodoxymoron wrote:Thank-you B.B. I appreciate what you said. On the other hand -- I think I'm sadly and rudely beginning to understand why the "Secret-Government" is secretive -- and doesn't post their minutes on the internet. Do you really think anyone would be understanding and appreciative?? I tend to doubt it. I've been picking up the pace of my reposting project -- so as to finish in a timely manner -- at which point, I probably really will cease and desist. The experiment is really over -- and I'm honestly just tidying up the loose-ends -- before I go completely incognito. I wish I were kidding. I really do.

    Last edited by orthodoxymoron on Fri Nov 13, 2015 4:22 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: The United States of the Solar System: A.D. 2133 (Book One)

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Fri Mar 27, 2015 8:39 pm

    I've created several 'Study Lists' within this thread -- and this is a slight variation on a couple of these lists:

    1. Deuteronomy (King James Version).
    2. The Psalms (KJV).
    3. The Gospel According to Matthew (KJV).
    4. The Epistle to the Hebrews (KJV).
    5. The 1928 'Book of Common Prayer'.
    6. 'The Desire of Ages' (EG White).
    7. The Traditional Latin Mass (infused with the meaning and interpretation of the above references).
    8. Sacred Classical Music.
    9. All of the Above in the Context of a Traditional Gothic Cathedral.

    This is NOT intended as a 'Last Word' or as an 'Exclusive Line in the Sand'. It is intended as a Mental and Spiritual Exercise -- and as a Point of Reference. What possible understandings might emerge from a Devotional and Scholarly study and participation in All of the Above??? If one were a Biblical and Musical Scholar -- the Latin Mass might take on a whole new meaning. One benefit of Latin is that one might feel 'at home' throughout the world -- and one might be able to think their own devotional thoughts while in attendance. I have no qualifications to give any weight to my thoughts -- but I still think that at least a few individuals should give this matter their undivided attention. I am NOT opposed to alternative megachurches. I simply think that there should be some sort of a Legitimate Historical Point of Reference -- a Center Which Will Hold -- and Stand the Test of Time. I REALLY could use some feedback. None ever seems to materialize regarding the basic subject of this post. Please do not assume that this is just more Mumbo-Jumbo. I think this might be more important than most of you think. Read between the lines in all of the above -- and include as much esoteric study as possible. Imagine dealing with this while traveling throughout the solar system.

    Egypt seemed to be problematic. The Old Testament seemed to be problematic. The Teachings Attributed to Jesus seemed to be pretty good. Paul seemed to ignore these teachings -- and seemed to move in a completely different direction. Hebrews through Jude seemed to support the Teachings Attributed to Jesus. Revelation seems to be very different from the rest of the Bible (with the possible exception of Daniel). Roman Catholicism seemed to be an extension of the Roman Empire -- and has been rather harsh to both members and non-members. Protestantism seemed (and seems) to be a Chaotic Zoo of Conflicting Churches. The 'New Age' Madness makes Christianity look like a Sunday-School Picnic. The Anglican Communion retained the Form of Catholicism, but without a lot of the harshness and baggage. I learned a lot from my Adventist roots -- but I do NOT wish to make the world 'Adventist'. I enjoyed my years at the Crystal Cathedral -- but I do not wish to make Robert Schuller into a 'New Jesus' -- or to make his teachings a 'New Bible'. I am VERY troubled by ALL of the mythologies, theologies, and philosophies. I want something different -- but most days I don't know what I want. I am most miserable. Consider this interview one more time. This video is of a rather poor quality -- and it's not fast-paced -- but I think it might be worth watching and listening to -- repeatedly. I like listening to Graham Maxwell and reading Malachi Martin. I am attempting to be ecumenical -- in a rather principled manner. Unfortunately, this involves stepping on just about everyone's toes.
    Aquaries1111 wrote:Yes Oxy, thanks for the Credo link.. I did follow his work with David Icke as the host as well as Michael Tellinger as host at one point too.. It all got very messy Oxy.. yes it got messy when monies to Credo were involved and accountings of transactions were being demanded upon from Michael Tellinger.. Poor Michael, he would never do such a thing.  After that, I really don't know what happened to Credo.. It seems as if he just disappeared into the "shadows of the night".. It left a very very bad taste in my mouth when Michael Tellinger was being accused of not disbursing monies due to Credo but I will give this link of yours a "looky".. Michael and Kerry are still doing travels and work together.. The English are truly a "fine species".. As far as David Icke, I never could get myself "focused" too much on his messages.. His energetics always seemed to come across as "missing something".. I couldn't put my finger on it.. and I still can't.. so I just gave up.. I will listen to recommendations though Oxy.. yours is the first for me of Icke's work..
    Aquaries1111 wrote:
    orthodoxymoron wrote:Thank-you A1. I have learned a lot from David Icke and Alex Jones -- but I wish to move in a very different direction. My style is completely different. Perhaps I'm just not as smart and brave as they are. I don't know. All I wish to do is mumble and ramble on the internet. I could be a Rabble (Rebel?) Rouser. I really could -- but I don't want to. I'd rather be a VERY low-key questioner and facilitator.
    I'd rather be a VERY low-key questioner and facilitator too Oxy.. I'm not one for providing answers... I trust in the synchronicities and hopefully the answer will reveal itself.. I never had my own bible Oxy... I don't know very much about scriptures.. My grandmother took me to her meetings here and there in Edinburgh, Scotland to accompany her... I was 13 years old.. She was a Jehovah's Witness and I understood not a darn thing of anything she read to me... I preferred to be outside.. I found it quite strange that my Grandmother (Nana) became religious at the age of 60 years old.. I don't know if she truly knew what she was getting herself into.. I think maybe she became lonely after having 11 children and thus wanted to belong to an organization.. I preferred the times spent with her on the farm.. and chopping wood into kindles for the fireplace.. making her cups of tea in the morning and rubbing some very strong minty cream on her back... Oh and the rubber hot water bottle she would fill up at night to put in my bed and the Ovaltine night drink for supper.. Oh and let me not forget to tell you of all the long walks we took in the forest and ate fresh ripe rosehips when found.. She taught me where to find "Suckersouries".. A green leaf that grew near cow patties and water.. they were very sour.. but if I saw one today, I would know it was okay to eat.. My Nana taught me much and I miss her very much.. I wonder what she's thinking right now?
    Some people need religion -- and some people don't. No one should HAVE to participate in religion -- but a reasonable form of religion should be there if they need it. A hobby, job, or sport can be a form of 'religion'. Family life can be a form of 'religion'. I simply request that everyone be RESPONSIBLE in everything they do. That's 'Good Religion'.

    magamud wrote:
    Imagine dealing with this while traveling throughout the solar system.
    Sounds good Oxy.  A voyager golden disc?
    I really am attempting to be ecumenical -- in a rather principled manner. Unfortunately, this involves stepping on just about everyone's toes.
    I will listen to the Maxwell video to try and get better reference of your thinking Oxy.

    Thank-you magamud. I attended Dr. A. Graham Maxwell's classes for several years -- and I grew-up reading his father's stories ('Uncle Arthur's Bedtime Stories'). He is an example of an Ecumenical Theologian. I'm trying to do this sort of thing -- but in a very different way. I just wish that I had Dr. Maxwell's brains and education.

    Aquaries1111 wrote:Oh Oxy, you give yourself never enough credit for anything.. You have a beautiful mind.. and no I am not just sending you fluffy marshmallows to make you feel good.. You are weaving invisible webs even far beyond your own imagination.. I'm going to the beach again tomorrow.. this time, I was actually "invited".. by my ex-husband.. What changed? Not much except my vibratory field which his sub-conscious is picking up on.. If I can't verbally be nice to him, I surely can be psychically nice to him..
    Thank-you A1. Perhaps it takes one to know one. (I try to give credit where credit is due.) Enjoy. Watch 'A Beautiful Mind' (at 34:45--36:45) and notice the ANGEL in the office of 'Big-Brother' (William Parcher) -- who supervised Robert Oppenheimer and the Manhatten Project (which one?). I liked his Fedora. That office-scene reminded me of my late-night meetings with the 'Ancient Egyptian Deity' (including the personality contrast). "Pinky and the Brain"??!! I REALLY wonder what sort of madness I might've been involved with during my last two or three incarnations??!! I have a VERY BAD feeling about this matter -- and very little would surprise me at this point. Remember that 'Astronomica' reference I previously referred to (1955 conference with Herman Oberth, et al)?? I can't remember the page -- which might be just as well. Read between the lines on THAT one!! Nuff said.

    Thank-you magamud. I found it interesting that one of Maxwell's books is titled 'You Can Trust the Bible' -- while another is titled 'Can God be Trusted?'. He seems very definite and confident with the first -- but he leaves the second very indefinite and open-ended. What if the Bible accurately describes a God who isn't very nice -- and who routinely breaks His own Commandments and commands His followers to do the same???!!! What if Saul-Paul-Josephus pretty much wrote the whole Bible (or at least most of the New Testament)??? What if the Bible is a Galactic IQ Test -- which must be passed with flying-colors -- before Humanity will be allowed to move-on to bigger and better things??? What if a Pre-Human Reptilian Universe was considered to be 'Perfect' -- with the Renegade Creation of Humanity and Freedom deemed 'Sin'. This might present HUGE problems for both the Traditional Reptilian God AND the Renegade Human God. What if God is considered to be 'Perfect' no matter what they do or don't do??? What if the Perfection and Righteousness of God is not based upon an External Objective Standard??? Consider the implications of a Perfect God with Absolute Authority and Unlimited Power!! What if this God somehow became Corrupt and Insane??? Would they remain 'Perfect' and retain Absolute Authority??? What if someone had a 'Better Idea'? Would this be considered Rebellious Heresy if this innovation were condemned by God?? I'm sorry, but I have to ask these questions -- even though it makes me feel like dying.

    magamud wrote:It sounds like you are at the Crux of things Ortho.  What is the devil and what is god?  Your faith will tell you this...
    I hate thinking about this. What if we are dealing with Ancient Reptilian Queen (loyal to Reptilian Tradition) v Ancient Reptilian Queen (loyal to Humanity and Responsible-Freedom)? Some say that the Queen is somehow Reptilian. My present theory is that all of us might have souls which are more reptilian than human -- but this is just a hypothesis. My guess is that people like the Pope, the Queen, the Rothschilds, the Rockefellers, George Soros, the President, et al -- deal with the Hypothetical Reptilian Phenomenon on a regular basis -- and some of them MIGHT have a higher Reptilian to Human Percentage -- but I don't know. I really don't. I don't hate any of these people -- but I think they might have to deal with things which would make our hair stand on end. One of my goals with this thread is to make the top levels of governance much more happy and sane. I think things might be quite bad at the top -- despite the trappings of wealth and privilege.
    magamud wrote:Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own. Matthew 6:34
    I know I'm out of control, A-1. That's why I'm trying to pull-over to the side of the Information Super-Highway -- and get stopped. BTW -- the quotes are mostly (95%) from 'my' threads (and I always give proper credit). I have been accused of ignoring others (and not working with the group) -- but probably 85% of this thread (and all of 'my' threads) are the work of others (including you). If all of my posts were different and conflicting -- I would be accused of being indecisive and inconsistent. If all of my posts were the same -- I would be accused of being boring and stuck in a rut. Actually, my posts are diverse (while remaining consistent) -- so I get accused of all of the above. Every answer is the 'wrong answer'. Every approach is the 'wrong approach'. If I'm intelligent, intuitive, innovative, and sensitive -- I am called rebellious and effeminate (and even 'demon-possessed'). If I am conformist, conservative, consistent, and unimaginative -- I am called a 'Completely Ignorant Fool'. Anyway, I suspect that the bottom-line will be 'You Screwed-Up -- and You're Going to Burn in Hell' -- regardless of how good or bad I've been -- and regardless of whether I've laid hold of the Merits of the Crucified Christ -- or not. There's always a loophole to screw whoever one wishes to screw -- in whichever style they choose. While I agree that living in the NOW is optimal -- I am aware that when one fails to plan -- they are planning to fail. I prefer the concept of Responsible Comprehensive Concentration -- which is consistent with your quote from the Sermon on the Mount, magamud.
    Eartheart wrote: Rolling Eyes What if this God somehow became Corrupt and Insane?

    As this is certainnotonlyforour planet it seems not so bad, more of a creative and farsight-effort on Her/His side, while only concerned observers can judge some acts they cannot comprehend as corrupted insanety... How we had to do insanethings to bridge some lifetimes in the dark ages for instance!!!
    Would they remain 'Perfect' and retain Absolute Authority??

    Again a implied judgement of underdog observers - if iam in divine unity such questions and speculations are avoided...
    What if someone had a 'Better Idea'? Would this be considered Rebellious Heresy if this innovation were condemned by God?

    Better implies innovative intelligence from the One applied, using source would be considered obidient, even if you had a reptile Boss watching over your quadrant...
    What if we are dealing with Ancient Reptilian Queen (loyal to Reptilian Tradition) v Ancient Reptilian Queen (loyal to Humanity and Responsible-Freedom)?

    The ARQ's will alllways be programmed by reverse coding, so there wont be one loyal to Humans & Responsible Freedom! Even if it may be true, that the Orion Mothers signed the "Anchara Peace Treaty", there are their own prophecys of reaching this crowning and closing of their circle of borgism,
    and there are certain multilayered purposes in that. (Just remember that many stupid and lower programmed war-borgs couldnt believe or tune to the new (1996-2004) intergalactic peace treaty - and keep to wrack heavoc, same like those around An's warparty, wholeft orion to travel through the montauck timerift so 5000years back to start the sumerian deception and play the "Weown you"-game, importing 20million killersouls onto Gea and ursurping all Looverkingdoms and blood/timelines... But we will extract this bubble and unmake this false godless creation with the help of Allthatis...
    Thank-you Eartheart. As usual, I'll have to read your post several times -- and let it gradually sink in. I seem to be presently obsessed with a Pre-Human Traditional-Reptilian Galactic-Civilization -- a Recent-Renegade Freedom-Seeking Human-Civilization -- and the Problems Arising from Differences in Physicality and Governance. I feel as if I'm on the verge of Something Big -- yet I feel as if this might be a Bad Thing. The Truth Might Utterly Destroy Me -- Rather Than Setting Me Free.

    My questions about God have to do with Divine Accountability. What is a proper methodology for evaluating Divine Performance?? I am NOT advocating Insubordination or Rebellion -- yet I am wondering how we can properly apply a Rear-View Mirror Evaluation to God(s)?? If beings Just Follow Orders -- does this not open the door to possible misuse and abuse?? What if a Good God is overthrown by a Bad God?? Do the Obedient Sheep obey the New Bad God with the same devotion as they exhibited toward the Old Good God?? What if the Pope, the Queen, and the President get infiltrated, subverted, corrupted, blackmailed, etc, etc??? At what point does humanity legitimately cry "FOUL!!" and seek to remedy the Crisis Situation???

    We often seem to desire Strong Leadership -- yet we often resent being told what to do.

    Could someone please discuss 'Jesus: Last of the Pharaohs' by Ralph Ellis -- and 'The Gods of Eden' by William Bramley?? I have no idea how close to the mark they are -- but these two books are extremely thought-provoking -- especially when combined.

    I'm considering doing a verse by verse study of Deuteronomy, Psalms, Matthew, and Hebrews -- within this thread -- with a special emphasis on the Kingdom of God -- and the Governance Modus Operandi of God. Pre-Human Reptilian Physicality, Psychology, Ethics, Law, Religion, and Governance -- are of special interest to me -- relative to Recent-Human Physicality, Psychology, Ethics, Religion, Law, and Governance. I'm beginning to imagine myself in Pre-Human Reptilian and Recent-Human Management Roles -- to attempt to understand all of the above from BOTH perspectives. But Siriusly, this is a disorienting mind-game, to say the least!! I've come to the conclusion that LAW and RESPONSIBILITY are central to fixing the problems. I'm thinking that I need to think more like a Lawyer as I seek to make my case.

    I'll probably get myself into deeper and deeper trouble as I continue to model a possible Reptilian-Reptilian v Human-Reptilian power-struggle. I've even been trying to imagine what it might be like to be a Draconian-Reptilian -- so as to see things from their point of view. What if all of us were Draconian-Reptilians thousands (or even millions) of years ago?? I want things to be happy and peaceful -- but I keep getting the sinking feeling that things are too screwed-up for there to be true peace and happiness for all -- anytime soon. I think I might not have another life -- or that I will be facing hell-on-earth for hundreds (or thousands) of years. Whatever the hypothetical galactic civil-war is all about -- I doubt that it will be resolved anytime soon. A regime-change would probably NOT be the end of hostilities. Whoever got the short-end of the deal would undoubtedly vow to get even -- and then some. I continue to think that this universe is NOT a nice place, which is inhabited by nice beings. I used to think just the opposite -- and I wish I still felt that way. I HATE the way I presently think. But where does the evidence lead???

    I must point-out that my modeling within this thread does not necessarily represent the way I think. I Don't Know What's Really Going On. I tend to think that the TRUE state of affairs might remain hidden for a very long time. I also tend to think that I should become a lot more private regarding my speculations. I think I've placed quite enough on the table already. If I stop posting, this won't mean that I've stopped caring. I am just VERY uncomfortable with my present speculations and impressions. I don't think I'm crazy -- but it wouldn't surpise me if I became insane at some point. I think the Truth might push me over the edge. Perhaps ignorance really is bliss.

    You have NO idea what I REALLY think about. You really don't. I think the Ancient Egyptian Deity might have a pretty good idea though. A couple of others might know too. Perhaps they can even read my mind. That wouldn't surprise me one little bit. Once, when I was hesitant to answer a question, the Ancient Egyptian Deity said something like 'Don't make me go inside your head to get the answer'! Another time, when I was upset about something they said, they came to where I was, from another room, to find-out what was wrong! One dark night, we discussed 'They Live'! The last conversations (of any length) I had with said Deity (approximately one year ago), seemed VERY different than previous discussions. These seemed to be much more 'official' and 'tense' -- as if something of significance had occurred (or was in the process of occurring). Global finance was mentioned at one point. Nuff said.

    Financial stability seems to be very difficult to maintain in this computerized and sophisticated age. It seems to be too easy to move money around -- and to create financial collapses. It seems as if wealth can be created and destroyed much too easily and quickly. Perhaps I should study the FDIC, the GAO, and the SEC. Who knows?? I keep getting the feeling that some sort of a Physical, Mental, and Spiritual Time of Trouble is Coming to This World -- and Coming Soon -- and that Few Are Prepared for That Which is Almost Upon Us. I have tried to help prepare a critical mass of individuals for this possibility -- but the impact seems to have been minimal. I don't know that I'm prepared for what lies ahead -- but I still think that this thread is an excellent study-guide for what we might be facing in the near future. I think I need to review the territory I've already covered. I think I need to turn this thread into a Doctoral Dissertation -- without participating in a formal program -- although that might be nice. The problem is that I seem to be involved in some sort of an ongoing spiritual-war which is quite incapacitating -- and I doubt that I will ever achieve peace and resolution. I feel as if I am on the verge of shutting-down and completely withdrawing from just about everything. Game Over? Perhaps this thread will generate greater interest in a Post-Apocalyptic Solar System. Namaste and Godspeed.

    What the hell happened??? Why are we ruining this beautiful world??? How many people do we need???
    20 billion??? 40 billion??? Plus, we now have the technology to exterminate everyone!!! Aren't We Clever!!!

    Last edited by orthodoxymoron on Thu Nov 19, 2015 1:13 pm; edited 2 times in total

    Posts : 7824
    Join date : 2010-09-28

    Re: The United States of the Solar System: A.D. 2133 (Book One)

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:15 pm

    Consider the Lambeth Conferences. Just for the fun of it -- think of the United States of the Solar System -- in terms of a Year-Round Lambeth Conference -- Bilderberg Conference -- the United Nations -- and Washington D.C. (Senate and Congress) with 10,000 Representatives (4,000 at the Washington National Cathedral -- and 6,000 spread throughout the Solar System)!!! This would be a cool location -- but there are dozens of satisfactory possibilities -- including the St. Mary's Cathedral possibility I previously discussed (as long as the West-Coast does not undergo 'Earth-Changes'). I continue to have a VERY bad feeling regarding 'infiltration and subversion', 'poison-pills', and 'scorched-earth policies'. I continue to NOT know what we're REALLY dealing with -- and I am NOT in bed with anyone (other than my dog).

    10. (I used to love doing organ improvisations on 'Ash Grove'!!)
    12. (I like watching this video!!)
    16. (Is Honesty the Best Policy??)

    Shouldn't the most important decisions imaginable be made as if in the Very Presence of Almighty God??? Or would you rather decide the fate of the Solar System at the local McDonalds? Is there ANYONE in the Galaxy with whom I can discuss these matters in a detailed and ongoing manner??? ANYONE??? I get the distinct impression that NEITHER Humanity or Divinity wants what I'm hinting at in this thread. Will an Infiltrated and Subverted United States of the Solar System be used to further screw humanity for a thousand years -- prior to the final extermination of mankind??? Is this the Second Death??? If God be against us -- what chance do we have??? I have a VERY bad feeling about BOTH Divinity and Humanity -- but I SO hope that I'm wrong. I have never felt worse about our situation, than I feel right now. Perhaps listening to Sherry Shriner will calm me down. I certainly hope so. I tend to listen more closely to her description of the problems -- than I do to her recommended solutions. I'm going to request one more time that some of you use this thread as a study-guide. I'm a mess -- but I think this thread might be of significant value to the right researchers -- who are willing to give it their undivided attention. I have very little confidence in myself -- and I don't love myself -- even though that's what Robert Schuller said we should do. What I am going to do -- is get lost in documentaries. Is this finally over? I don't know.

    Someone walked around the side of my house, and looked in my window at me today -- and I told them I was calling the police. If this was anyone who might be reading this thread -- please knock next time. I've been told that I have been observed while showering and while walking my dog. I'm aware of the existence of VERY covert means of observing and terminating people -- so I'm a bit on-edge. Once again, I am much more interested in the next best steps for humanity -- than I am interested in historical condemnation. BTW -- I'm doing an FOIA -- but I will NOT say anything more about it. I think that BOTH Divinity and Humanity hate me -- and I'm going to try NOT to say anything about anything. I've probably said way too much already. I'll need to see evidence of support from BOTH Divinity and Humanity -- before I climb any farther out on a VERY high and thin limb. Evidence of completely understanding this thread might be nice. Are there any Adults in this Galaxy??? (Just Kidding!) I keep getting the feeling that I've somehow been tricked and trapped. If this is the case -- I wish to reverse any foolish decisions or statements I might've made, at any time, or on any level. I sought to do the right thing for all-concerned -- but I smell a rat (or is it a snake?). Are we safe now??? No.

    What are the chances of reintroducing the Concorde?? What about using improved engines, materials, design, and manufacturing methods?? What about an American-British-French-German-Russian-Chinese-Japanese Cooperative Effort?? Just get along, and build the damn plane!!! Get 100 major airports to agree to at least a couple of Concorde take-offs per day!!! Then, paint 'The United States of the Solar System' on one of these new Concordes!!! But really, Mag-Lev Trains and Unconventional Spacecraft might make this project unnecessary. Still, I really liked the Concorde -- and I would love to see an international cooperative project of massive proportions. How about a Concorde Spacecraft??!! BTW -- in 'Contact' was S.R. Haddon's 'Jet' really a 'Spacecraft'?? Watch and listen carefully!! You'll see!! I keep getting the feeling that I have spoken with a real 'S.R. Haddon' for several years!! I might be a Completely Ignorant Fool in this incarnation -- but once upon a time, I think I might've been a helluva Engineer!! Nuff Said!!

    The following quote from 'Windswept House' (page 266) by Malachi Martin is interesting -- but fictional: "Tell me this, Father." The Pope seemed at ease again. "Would your discomfort prevent your sincere help to us in building the New Jerusalem? In building anew the Body of Our Savior? We are few. But Christ is the Master Builder. And"--the Pontiff smiled just a little now--"His Mother is in charge of operations." How might this quote relate to the subject of this thread ('Archangelic Queens of Heaven and the United States of the Solar System')??? Are we dealing with two Archangelic Queens of Heaven -- at war with each other -- with another Archangelic Queen of Heaven mediating between the two -- and in charge of operations on Planet Earth?? Or -- are we only dealing with TWO Archangelic Queens of Heaven?? I have no idea. Well, actually I do, but I'm into this thing WAY too deeply already -- and I'm frankly tired of sticking my neck out -- with very little response. On the other hand -- if I had been effective -- I'd probably be dead -- but that might not be so bad. Perhaps I should've eaten the dinner the Ancient Egyptian Deity gave me. Might that have been 'The Last Supper'?? We never met again (that I know of). Nuff said. This isn't fun -- and I'm done. Consider Psalm 118 (KJV):

    1 Oh, give thanks to the Lord, for He is good! For His mercy endures forever. 2 Let Israel now say, "His mercy endures forever." 3 Let the house of Aaron now say, "His mercy endures forever." 4 Let those who fear the Lord now say, "His mercy endures forever." 5 I called on the Lord in distress; The Lord answered me and set me in a broad place. 6 The Lord is on my side; I will not fear. What can man do to me? 7 The Lord is for me among those who help me; Therefore I shall see my desire on those who hate me. 8 It is better to trust in the Lord Than to put confidence in man. 9 It is better to trust in the Lord Than to put confidence in princes. 10 All nations surrounded me, But in the name of the Lord I will destroy them. 11 They surrounded me, Yes, they surrounded me; But in the name of the Lord I will destroy them. 12 They surrounded me like bees; They were quenched like a fire of thorns; For in the name of the Lord I will destroy them. 13 You pushed me violently, that I might fall, But the Lord helped me. 14 The Lord is my strength and song, And He has become my salvation. 15 The voice of rejoicing and salvation Is in the tents of the righteous; The right hand of the Lord does valiantly. 16 The right hand of the Lord is exalted; The right hand of the Lord does valiantly. 17 I shall not die, but live, And declare the works of the Lord. 18 The Lord has chastened me severely, But He has not given me over to death. 19 Open to me the gates of righteousness; I will go through them, And I will praise the Lord. 20 This is the gate of the Lord, Through which the righteous shall enter. 21 I will praise You, For You have answered me, And have become my salvation. 22 The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief cornerstone. 23 This was the Lord's doing; It is marvelous in our eyes. 24 This is the day the Lord has made; We will rejoice and be glad in it. 25 Save now, I pray, O Lord; O Lord, I pray, send now prosperity. 26 Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord! We have blessed you from the house of the Lord. 27 God is the Lord, And He has given us light; Bind the sacrifice with cords to the horns of the altar. 28 You are my God, and I will praise You; You are my God, I will exalt You. 29 Oh, give thanks to the Lord, for He is good! For His mercy endures forever.

    I still think that we know very little about what's REALLY going on in the Solar System, Galaxy, and Universe. There are an infinite number of possibilities -- with huge challenges regarding proof and verification. I've been wondering if we really live in a rather hostile and nasty universe -- and if Earth is the wild, wild west -- with innovations in physicality, behavior, and governance -- which the rest of the universe considers to be rebellion and heresy??!! I get the picture of a VERY advanced ET Civilization in North Africa in antiquity (and presently??!!) which genetically engineered human physicality -- and got into a helluva lot of trouble for doing so. Then, it seems that the Hebrews jumped out of the frying-pan and into the fire -- by following a New God into the desert -- after being promised the Promised-Land -- as God's Chosen People. I'm seeing nasty factional fighting throughout history -- between Mighty Gods (who were not Almighty -- and certainly not pure and ethical by any current high-road ethical standards). I'm not judgemental in all of this -- but I certainly wish for things to dramatically improve -- at least within this particular solar system. It really wouldn't surprise me if (on a reincarnational basis) the rabbit-hole really does mostly go right up my @$$. This deeply frightens me. Once again, there is an aspect of the Thuban stuff that is attractive -- but I lean toward Christocentric-Egyptology, Jesus-Studies, and Astronomy -- all mixed together. However, at some point, I think I should completely read through that old Thuban Q&A on the old Project Avalon site. It tweaks my brain -- and makes me think about things in a new way (but not necessarily a good way). BTW -- what if all of us were Draconian Reptilians in antiquity??!! What if some of us became Humans (with Reptilian Souls)??!! What if the Reptilian God declared WAR on the New Humans??!! That would make "God" seem like "Satan" to the Humans -- wouldn't it??!! The Human Leader would be their "God" -- but certainly not the God of the Universe -- and probably relatively powerless compared to the Traditional Reptilian God. Does the Universe need to be governed by Absolute Power (on the part of God) -- with Absolute and Unquestioning Obedience (on the part of Everyone Else)??!! Can Responsible-Freedom be introduced into this equation -- without destroying Law and Order in the Universe??!!

    Once again, my 'Reptilian-Talk' is mostly speculative -- and it should probably be referred to as 'Other-Than-Human Possibilities'. I have no first-hand experience in this area of conjecture -- and I have no insider contacts -- although I think I have previously spoken with insiders (who were quite restrained). The subject of Pre-Human and Other-Than-Human Civilizations should NOT be ignored. The internet is forcing us to deal with subjects which have previously been hidden and forbidden. I generally assume that anyone who is anyone -- has been compromised in some way, shape, or form. I don't even trust myself. I feel VERY supernaturally attacked -- and I have no idea how badly I have been compromised by nefarious entities from the nether realms. BTW -- I will try to keep-up with this website -- but I'm going to try really hard to cut WAY back on my posting. This game is scaring the hell out of me -- and I think I need a change of scenery. I think I see the Nature of the Problems -- and I am fearful regarding what part I might've played in all of this. I think I need to stop this mental and spiritual torture -- and do something else -- at least for a while. What bothers me about the whole "God, Satan, Lucifer, Jesus, Angels, Demons, Heaven, Hell" thing -- is that so much of it is so obscure and mysterious -- leaving believers and unbelievers with very little of REAL substance to work with. I have been reduced to writing Pseudo-Intellectual Political and Theological Science-Fiction -- which is VERY unsatisfying and problematic.
    orthodoxymoron wrote:
    magamud wrote:Ortho,
    God is everywhere and part of his plan is to collapse the universe upon his workings in Eden.  This is the local solar systems destiny and anyone or anything working with our sphere will be subject to this.  Therefore everything flows from this wisdom, to all evil and all good. This is the foundations of consciousness. So what will concentrating on the Drama of another species bring you? Gods gift to us during this Grand plan is to only acknowledge his presence and ask for his help...
    How do you know this?? Have you Physically Observed God?? Have you spoken with God -- Face to Face?? You use mysterious language -- which supports what I previously said regarding obscurity and mystery. If we are the Children of Another Species -- or the Children of the Gods -- this might be of some importance to us -- regarding who we are -- where we came from -- and where we might be going. This might even be the Key to Understanding the Holy Bible. Who knows??
    magamud wrote:
    -"His Mother is in charge of operations."
    The hidden father is the creator.  His love manifests with his son in flesh and blood.  This is a straight line.  This is what Jesus is talking about that you have to go through him.
    You must put your faith into this and use this as prior.  Everything comes from this architecture..

    is that so much of it is so obscure and mysterious -
    I don't see this at all.  I see the evidence around everywhere.  Consider this saying.

    113. His disciples said to him, "When will the kingdom come?"
    "It will not come by watching for it. It will not be said, 'Look, here!' or 'Look, there!' Rather, the Father's kingdom is spread out upon the earth, and people don't see it."

    For His mercy endures forever.
    As it would since everything flows from God...:)  
    magamud wrote:Ortho the evidence is everywhere, but man cannot see it.  This is because it comes in the matter of portends or in other words a completely different paradigm.
    The universe has slipped through mans perception because man has chosen to worship other gods.  Our science and senses have been fooled.
    Our narcissism is so great we have created our own self creating matrix to separate us from the Truth.

    I have physically observed God but not in its fullness, I have spoken to god but not in its fullness.  This mystery you speak of is the process of Faith and following his whispers.  His whispers become words and his portends become physicalized.  

    I am not being vague or obscure on purpose, I am trying to connect as best as I can...
    I don't like what I've been doing on this website -- but what options exist for getting at the REAL truth of the matter??? I have to consider various possibilities -- in a somewhat irreverent manner. I feel as if I am attacked by BOTH Divinity and Humanity when I 'do theology' in such a provoking and blasphemous manner -- yet isn't it necessary to consider all of the possibilities before arriving at any conclusions in this matter?? I am quite drained and upset about this presently. This all seems like a no-win activity. It almost seems as if confusion and fighting are thrust upon us -- and that those who seek lasting and happy solutions are not welcome or appreciated. I've been requesting a detailed critique of the totality of my internet posting -- for several years now -- with zero results. I have not represented my work as being anything more than Pseudo-Intellectual Political and Theological Science-Fiction --  Which MIGHT Reflect Certain Aspects of Hidden Reality. I have been asking 'What is Truth?' in a very unorthodox manner -- as an orthodoxymoron. I am NOT an atheist or an agnostic -- but I am a VERY unorthodox believer -- often in a highly irreverent manner. I am presently modeling a particular 'God-Hypothesis' -- which I don't necessarily believe in. It's a nasty job -- but someone has to do it. Unfortunately, the salvation of my immortal soul hangs in the balance. Hey, wait a minute, I'm a backslidden SDA -- and we don't believe in the immortality of the soul. Most of us don't, anyway. I'm presently sensing that dealing with God might be highly problematic -- for legion reasons. The True-Believers and Hardened-Atheists will NEVER properly deal with this subject. It's those of us who thrash-about between faith and doubt -- who will probably make some of the greatest theological breakthroughs -- as we beat-upon the rocks of infidelity. Now, should I leave this solar system for all eternity?? Would THAT make all of you happy?? The 'Ancient Egyptian Deity' asked me if I would travel in a UFO?! I was non-committal at the time -- but who knows?? One more question, before I go:

    Is the Universe Governed by Responsibility-Based Righteous-Ethics -- by Absolute-Power, Might, Loyalty, Tradition, and Absolute-Obedience -- All of the Above -- Or Some Other Possibility??


    The Lambeth Conferences are decennial assemblies of bishops of the Anglican Communion convened by the Archbishop of Canterbury. The first such conference took place in 1867.

    As the Anglican Communion is an international association of autonomous national and regional churches and not a governing body, Lambeth Conferences serve a collaborative and consultative function, expressing "the mind of the communion" on issues of the day. Resolutions which a Lambeth Conference may pass are without legal effect, but they are nonetheless influential.

    These conferences form one of the communion's four "Instruments of Communion".


    The idea of these meetings was first suggested in a letter to the Archbishop of Canterbury by Bishop John Henry Hopkins of Vermont in 1851, but the immediate impulse came from the colonial Church in Canada. In 1865 the synod of that province, in an urgent letter to the Archbishop of Canterbury (Dr Longley), represented the unsettlement of members of the Canadian Church caused by recent legal decisions of the Privy Council, and their alarm lest the revived action of Convocation "should leave us governed by canons different from those in force in England and Ireland, and thus cause us to drift into the status of an independent branch of the Catholic Church".;[1] However, the possibility of such an international gathering of bishops had first emerged during the Jubilee of the Church Missionary Society in 1851 when a number of US bishops were present in London.[2]

    They therefore requested him to call a "national synod of the bishops of the Anglican Church at home and abroad",[3] to meet under his leadership. After consulting both houses of the Convocation of Canterbury, Archbishop Longley assented, and convened all the bishops of the Anglican Communion (then 144 in number) to meet at Lambeth in 1867.

    Many Anglican bishops (amongst them the Archbishop of York and most of his suffragans) felt so doubtful as to the wisdom of such an assembly that they refused to attend it, and Dean Stanley declined to allow Westminster Abbey to be used for the closing service, giving as his reasons the partial character of the assembly, uncertainty as to the effect of its measures and "the presence of prelates not belonging to our Church".[4]

    Archbishop Longley said in his opening address, however, that they had no desire to assume "the functions of a general synod of all the churches in full communion with the Church of England", but merely to "discuss matters of practical interest, and pronounce what we deem expedient in resolutions which may serve as safe guides to future action".[5]

    The resolutions of the Lambeth Conferences have never been regarded as synodical decrees, but their weight has increased with each conference.

    Seventy-six bishops accepted the primate’s invitation to the first conference, which met at Lambeth on 24 September 1867 and sat for four days, the sessions being in private. The archbishop opened the conference with an address: deliberation followed; committees were appointed to report on special questions; resolutions were adopted, and an encyclical letter was addressed to the faithful of the Anglican Communion. Each of the subsequent conferences has been first received in Canterbury Cathedral and addressed by the archbishop from the chair of St. Augustine.

    From the Second Conference, they have then met at Lambeth Palace, and after sitting for five days for deliberation upon the fixed subjects and appointment of committees, have adjourned, to meet again at the end of a fortnight and sit for five days more, to receive reports, adopt resolutions and to issue their encyclical letter.

    From 1978 onwards the conference has been held on the Canterbury campus of the University of Kent allowing the bishops to live and worship together on the same site for the first time. In 1978 the bishops spouses were accommodated at the nearby St Edmund's School (an Anglican private school); this separation of spouses was not felt helpful, indeed, the wife of Archbishop Desmond Tutu was famously observed climbing in through the window of her husband's room to visit him. Since 1988 the spouses have also lived at the university.


    First: 1867

    The first Lambeth Conference was presided over by: Charles Thomas Longley -- with 76 bishops present. The Conference began with a celebration of the Holy Communion at which Whitehouse of Illinois preached; Wilberforce of Oxford later described the sermon as 'wordy but not devoid of a certain impressiveness'. The first session convened in the upstairs Dining Room (known as the Guard Room); the remainder of the first day was spent debating the Preface to the Address which was intended to be issued after the conference. The second day was spent on a discussion of synodical authority concluding that the faith and unity of the Anglican Communion would be best maintained by there being a synod above those of the 'several branches'. Day 3 was given over to discussing the situation in the Diocese of Natal and its controversial bishop Colenso. Longley refused to accept a condemnatory resolution proposed by Hopkins, Presiding Bishop of the Americans, but they later voted to note 'the hurt done to the whole communion by the state of the church in Natal'. Of the 13 resolutions adopted by the conference, 2 have direct reference to the Natal situation. Day 4 saw the formal signing of the Address. There had been no plan for further debate but the bishops unexpectedly returned to the subject of Colenso, delaying the end of the conference. Other resolutions have to do with the creation of new sees and missionary jurisdictions, Commendatory Letters, and a voluntary spiritual tribunal in cases of doctrine and the due subordination of synods. It was agreed that the reports of the committees would be received at a final meeting on December 10 by those bishops still in England. On the final day, the bishops attended Holy Communion at Lambeth Parish Church at which Longley presided; Fulford of Montreal, one of the instigators of the original request, preached. No one session of the conference had all the bishops attending although all signed the Address and Longley was authorised to add the names of absent bishops who later subscribed to it. Attending bishops included 18 English, 5 Irish, 6 Scots, 19 American and 24 'Colonial'. The Latin and Greek texts of the Encyclical - as it rapidly became known - were produced by Wordsworth of Lincoln.

    Second: 1878
    Presided over by: Archibald Campbell Tait
    100 bishops present

    Tait was a friend of Colenso and shared Dean Stanley's Erastian views (that the conference should not have been called without some royal authority) but when the Canadians again requested a Conference in 1872, he concurred. The American bishops suggested a further conference in 1874, Kerfoot of Pittsburgh delivering the request in person. Importantly, the Convocation of the Province of York had changed its position and now supported the Conference idea. 108 of the 173 bishops accepted the invitation, although the actual attendance was a little smaller. The first gathering was in Canterbury Cathedral on St. Peter's Day, 29 June. The bishops then moved Lambeth for the First Session on 2 July, after Holy Communion at which Tait presided and Thomson of York preached, the bishops gathered in the Library. One half day was assigned to each of the six main agenda areas. The reports of the special committees (based in part upon those of the committee of 1867) were embodied in the encyclical letter, which described the best mode of maintaining union, voluntary boards of arbitration, the relationship between missionary bishops and missionaries (a particular problem in India), chaplains in continental Europe, modern forms of infidelity and the best way of dealing with them and the condition, progress and needs of the churches. A final service of thanksgiving took place in St. Paul's Cathedral on 27 July. Attending bishops included 35 English, 9 Irish, 7 Scots, 19 American and 30 'Colonial and Missionary'. One Bishop Suffragan and a number of former colonial bishops with commissions in England also attended as full members. The costs of the conference were met by the English bishops and a programme of excursions was organised by J. G. Talbot, M.P. The Latin and Greek texts of the Encyclical were again produced by Wordsworth of Lincoln.

    Third: 1888
    Presided over by: Edward White Benson
    145 bishops present

    The agenda of this conference was noticeable for its attention to matters beyond the internal organisation of the Anglican Communion and its attempts to engage with some of the major social issues that the member churches were encountering. In addition to the encyclical letter, nineteen resolutions were put forth, and the reports of twelve special committees are appended upon which they are based, the subjects being intemperance, purity, divorce, polygamy, observance of Sunday, socialism, care of emigrants, mutual relations of dioceses of the Anglican Communion, home reunion, Scandinavian Church, Old Catholics, etc., Eastern Churches, standards of doctrine and worship. Importantly, this was the first conference to make use of the "Chicago-Lambeth Quadrilateral" as a basis for Anglican self-description. The Quadrilateral laid down a fourfold basis for home reunion: that agreement should be sought concerning the Holy Scriptures, the Apostles’ and Nicene creeds, the two sacraments ordained by Christ himself and the historic episcopate.

    Fourth: 1897
    Presided over by: Frederick Temple (having been convened by Archbishop Benson)
    194 bishops present

    This conference was held a year early because of the thirteenth centennial celebrations of St. Augustine's arrival in Kent. The first event was a visit by the bishops to the Augustine monument at Ebbsfleet. A special train was run by the South Eastern Railway that stopped at Canterbury to collect the cathedral clergy and choir. A temporary platform was built at Ebbsfleet for first class passengers; second class passengers had to alight at Minster-in-Thanet and walk the remaining 2.3 miles. After an act of worship the party retrained and proceeded to Richborough to visit the Roman remains and take tea. There is no station at Richborough, perhaps a second temporary one was created. The bishops then travelled back to Canterbury to be ready for the opening service of the conference on the following day. The arrangements did not go well and the Dean of Canterbury complained of 'the appalling mismanagement by the railway authorities'.[6]

    One of the chief subjects for consideration was the creation of a tribunal of reference, but the resolutions on this subject were withdrawn due to opposition of the bishops of the Episcopal Church in the USA, and a more general resolution in favour of a "consultative body" was substituted. The encyclical letter is accompanied by sixty-three resolutions (which include careful provision for provincial organisation and the extension of the title archbishop "to all metropolitans, a thankful recognition of the revival of brotherhoods and sisterhoods, and of the office of deaconess," and a desire to promote friendly relations with the Eastern Churches and the various Old Catholic bodies), and the reports of the eleven committees are subjoined.

    Davidson chafed under the arrangements for the conference in which he had played no part and detirmined to write the final Encyclical himself. There were a number of unfortunate phrases in his draft to which many bishops objected but he refused to accept amendments on the day of its presentation. However, he reconsidered overnight and announced the following morning that he had changed the draft as requested. A bishop who rose to thank to express gratitude for his change of mind was rebuked with the words, 'Sir you may thank me all you wish, but you must thank me in silence'.[7]

    Fifth: 1908
    Presided over by: Randall Davidson
    242 bishops present

    The chief subjects of discussion were: the relations of faith and modern thought, the supply and training of the clergy, education, foreign missions, revision and "enrichment" of the Book of Common Prayer, the relation of the Church to "ministries of healing" (Christian Science, etc.), the questions of marriage and divorce, organisation of the Anglican Church, and reunion with other Churches. The results of the deliberations were embodied in seventy-eight resolutions, which were appended to the encyclical issued, in the name of the conference, by the Archbishop of Canterbury on August 8.

    Sixth: 1920
    Presided over by: Randall Davidson
    252 bishops present

    Rejected Christian Science, spiritualism, and theosophy. Supported political lobbying against "such incentives to vice as indecent literature, suggestive plays and films, the open or secret sale of contraceptives, and the continued existence of brothels." Affirmed the place of women as lay members of synods.

    The single most important action of this conference was to issue the "Appeal to all Christian People", which set out the basis on which Anglican churches would move towards visible union with churches of other traditions. The document repeated a slightly modified version of the Chicago-Lambeth Quadrilateral and then called on other Christians to accept it as a basis on which to discuss how they may move toward reunion. Interestingly, this proposal did not arise from the formal debates of the conference but amongst a group of bishops chatting over tea on the lawn of Lambeth Palace.

    The conference's uncompromising and unqualified rejection of all forms of artificial contraception, even within marriage, was contained in Resolution 68, which said, in part:

    We utter an emphatic warning against the use of unnatural means for the avoidance of conception, together with the grave dangers - physical, moral and religious - thereby incurred, and against the evils with which the extension of such use threatens the race. In opposition to the teaching which, under the name of science and religion, encourages married people in the deliberate cultivation of sexual union as an end in itself, we steadfastly uphold what must always be regarded as the governing considerations of Christian marriage. One is the primary purpose for which marriage exists, namely the continuation of the race through the gift and heritage of children; the other is the paramount importance in married life of deliberate and thoughtful self-control. [8]

    Seventh: 1930

    This section requires expansion. (April 2011)

    Presided over by: Cosmo Gordon Lang
    307 bishops attend

    Stressed abstinence and approved the use of birth control in limited circumstances, but did not specify contraceptives. Rejected war as a means of settling international disputes. Declared induced abortion "abhorrent". Opposed racial segregation in churches.

    Eighth: 1948
    Presided over by: Geoffrey Fisher
    349 bishops attend

    Advised that the ordination of Florence Li Tim-Oi "would be against the tradition and order...of the Anglican Communion" and dismissed the need for further examination of women's ordination. Welcomed full communion between the Anglican and Old Catholic churches. Affirmed that "discrimination between men on the grounds of race alone is inconsistent with the principles of Christ's religion".

    Ninth: 1958
    Presided over by: Geoffrey Fisher
    310 bishops attend

    Called for respect for the "consciences" of married couples who use birth control. Recommended considering the renewal of the permanent diaconate.

    Tenth: 1968
    Presided over by Michael Ramsey who famously dozed off during at least one debate.
    462 bishops attended

    This was the first conference not to take place in Lambeth Palace. This was because of the increase in the number of bishops attending, as well as the presence of almost 100 observers and consultants. Meetings were instead held at Church House, Westminster although the bishops, with their spouses, were invited to dinner at Lambeth by rotation.

    Recommended the ordination of women to the diaconate and the recognition of previously-appointed "deaconesses" as deacons. Found the arguments for and against women in the priesthood "inconclusive". Suggested that assent to the Thirty-Nine Articles no longer be required of clergy. Endorsed open communion.

    Eleventh: 1978
    Presided over by Donald Coggan
    440 bishops attended.[9]

    This conference "recognised the autonomy of each of its member right of each Church to make its own decision" about women priests. It also denounced the use of capital punishment and called for a common lectionary.

    This was the first conference to be held on the campus of the University of Kent at Canterbury where every subsequent conference has been held.

    This is sometimes said[who?] to be the first conference at which some assistant bishops were invited to attend,[10] although the record shows that this is not the case.

    Twelfth: 1988
    Presided over by Robert Runcie
    518 bishops present

    The conference dealt with the question of the inter-relations of Anglican international bodies and issues such as marriage and family, human rights, poverty and debt, environment, militarism, justice and peace. The conference decided that "each province respect the decision of other provinces in the ordination or consecration of women to the episcopate."

    At previous Lambeth Conferences, only bishops were invited to attend, but all members of the Anglican Consultative Council and representative bishops from the "Churches in Communion" (i.e. the Churches of Bangladesh, North and South India and Pakistan) were invited to attend.[11]

    Thirteenth: 1998
    Presided over by: George Carey
    749 bishops present including, for the first time, 11 women bishops

    The most hotly debated issue at this conference was homosexuality in the Anglican Communion. It was finally decided, by a vote of 526-70, to pass a resolution (1.10) calling for a "listening process" but stating (in a section passed by a much smaller majority on a separate vote) that "homosexual practice" (not necessarily orientation) is "incompatible with Scripture".[12] A subsequent public apology was issued to gay and lesbian Anglicans in a "Pastoral Statement" from 182 bishops worldwide, including eight primates (those of Brazil, Canada, Central Africa, Ireland, New Zealand, Scotland, South Africa and Wales).[13] Division and controversy centred on this motion and its application continued to the extent that, ten years later, in 2007, Giles Goddard of Inclusive Church suggested in published correspondence with Andrew Goddard across the liberal-evangelical divide: "It's possible to construct a perfectly coherent argument that the last 10 years have been preoccupied with undoing the damage Lambeth 1.10 caused to the Communion."[14]

    A controversial incident occurred during the conference when Bishop Emmanuel Chukwuma of Enugu, Nigeria attempted to exorcise the "homosexual demons" from the Reverend Richard Kirker, leader of the Lesbian and Gay Christian Movement, who was passing out leaflets. Chukwuma told Kirker that he was "killing the church"; Kirker's civil response to the attempted exorcism was "May God bless you, sir, and deliver you from your prejudice against homosexuality."[15][16][17]

    Discussions about a mission to fight poverty, create jobs and transform lives by empowering the poor in developing countries using innovative savings and microcredit programs, business training and spiritual development led to the formation of Five Talents. [18]

    Fourteenth: 2008
    Presided over by Rowan Williams
    Over 650 bishops present[19]

    The fourteenth conference took place from 16 July to 4 August 2008 at the University of Kent's Canterbury campus. In March 2006 the Archbishop of Canterbury, Rowan Williams, issued a pastoral letter[20] to the 38 primates of the Anglican Communion and moderators of the united churches setting out his thinking for the next Lambeth Conference.

    Williams indicated that the emphasis will be on training, "for really effective, truthful and prayerful mission". He ruled out (for the time being) reopening of the controversial resolution 1.10 on human sexuality from the previous Lambeth Conference, but emphasised the "listening process" in which diverse views and experiences of human sexuality were being collected and collated in accordance with that resolution and said it "will be important to allow time for this to be presented and reflected upon in 2008".

    Williams indicated that the traditional plenary sessions and resolutions would be reduced and that "We shall be looking at a bigger number of more focused groups, some of which may bring bishops and spouses together."

    Attendance at the Lambeth Conference is by invitation of the Archbishop of Canterbury. Invitations were sent to more than 880 bishops around the world for the Fourteenth Conference. Notably absent from the list of those invited are Gene Robinson and Martyn Minns. Robinson was the first Anglican bishop to exercise the office while in an acknowledged same-sex relationship. Minns, the former rector of Truro Episcopal Church in Fairfax, Virginia, is the head of the Convocation of Anglicans in North America, a splinter group of American Anglicans; the Church of Nigeria considers him a missionary bishop to the United States, despite protest from Canterbury and the U.S. Episcopal Church.

    In 2008, the seven martyred members of the Melanesian Brotherhood were honoured during the concluding Eucharist of the 2008 conference at Canterbury Cathedral. Their names were added to the book of contemporary martyrs and placed, along with an icon, on the altar of the "Chapel of the Saints and Martyrs of Our Times". When the Eucharist was over, bishops and others came to pray in front of the small altar in the chapel.[21] The icon stands in the cathedral as a reminder of their witness to peace and of the multi-ethnic character of global Anglicanism.[22]


    In 2008, four Anglican primates announced that they intended to boycott the Lambeth conference because of their opposition to the actions of Episcopal Church in the USA (the American branch of the Anglican church) in favour of homosexual clergy and same-sex unions.[23][24] These primates represent the Anglican provinces of Nigeria, Uganda, Kenya and Rwanda. In addition, Peter Jensen, Archbishop of Sydney, Australia and Michael Nazir-Ali, Bishop of Rochester, among others announced their intentions not to attend.

    The Global Anglican Future Conference, a meeting of conservative bishops held in Jerusalem in June 2008 (one month prior to Lambeth), was thought by some to be an "alternative Lambeth" for those who are opposed to the consecration of Robinson.[25] GAFCON involved Martyn Minns, Akinola and other dissenters who consider themselves to be in a state of impaired communion with Lambeth, ECUSA and Canterbury.[26] The June 2008 church blessing of Peter Cowell, an Anglican chaplain at The Royal London Hospital and priest at Westminster Abbey, and David Lord, an Anglican priest serving at a parish in Waikato, New Zealand, renewed the debate one month prior to the conference. The Reverend Martin Dudley who officiated at the ceremony at St Bartholomew-the-Great maintained that the ceremony was a "blessing" rather than a matrimonial ceremony.[27]


    1.^ Davidson, R.T., (1920)Five Lambeth Conferences, The London SPCK, p. 3
    2.^ Morgan, D. (1967, revised edition) Bishops Come to Lambeth, The; London, Mowbrays; p.49
    3.^ Davidson, op cit p.3
    4.^ Davidson, op cit.,p.12
    5.^ Davidson, op cit.,p.8
    6.^ The Times, July 3, 1897; issue 35246
    7.^ Stephenson, A.M.G. (1978) London SPCK;p.108
    8.^ "Resolution 68 – Problems of Marriage and Sexual Morality". Lambeth Conference Archives. 1920. Retrieved 2008-07-21.
    9.^ The New Encyclopædia Britannica, 1997 Edition, Volume 7: p120.
    11.^ "FACTBOX-What is the Lambeth Conference?". Reuters. 2008-07-21.
    12.^ "Lambeth Conference 1998: Resolution 1.10 Human Sexuality". Retrieved 2008-07-03.
    13.^ "A Pastoral Statement to Lesbian and Gay Anglicans". Retrieved 2008-07-03.
    14.^ "Giles to Andrew". Retrieved 2008-07-03.
    15.^ Kirkpatrick, Frank G. (2008). The Episcopal Church in crisis: how sex, the Bible, and authority are dividing the faithful. Greenwood Publishing Group. p. 5. ISBN 978-0-313-34662-0.
    16.^ Bates, Stephen (2004). A church at war: Anglicans and homosexuality. I.B. Tauris. p. 137. ISBN 978-1-85043-480-1.
    17.^ Harries, Richard; Michael W. Brierley (2006). Public life and the place of the church: reflections to honour the Bishop of Oxford. Ashgate Publishing Ltd.. p. 97. ISBN 978-0-7546-5301-1.
    18.^ "Archbishop Supports the Work of the Microfinance Charity Five Talents and the Role of the Church in Grassroots Development". Retrieved 2009-12-27.
    20.^ "Archbishop Sets Out Thinking on Lambeth Conference 2008". Lambeth Palace.
    21.^ "Lambeth bishops attend closing Eucharist; Martyred Melanesian brothers honored in Canterbury Cathedral". Episcopal Church. 2008-08-03. Retrieved 2009-12-03.
    22.^ "The Gathering". Canterbury Diocese. 2009-09-04. Retrieved 2009-12-03.[dead link]
    23.^ "GAFCON Response to Evangelical English Bishops". Anglican Church of Nigeria.
    24.^ Matthew Davies (2008-02-15). "Five primates announce Lambeth Conference boycott". Episcopal Church.
    25.^ Mark Hadley. "FutureAnglicans unite".
    27.^ Stated by Dudley in his article published by the New Statesman, 17 June 2008.
    Archbishop R.T. Davidson, The Lambeth Conferences of 1867, 1878 and 1888 (London, 1896)
    Conference of Bishops of the Anglican Communion, Encyclical Letter, etc. (London, 1897 and 1908).

    Last edited by orthodoxymoron on Thu Nov 19, 2015 1:24 pm; edited 1 time in total

    Posts : 7824
    Join date : 2010-09-28

    Re: The United States of the Solar System: A.D. 2133 (Book One)

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:31 pm

    I often sound stand-offish -- but I simply don't know who and what to believe and trust -- so I suppose I am in a moot-war with everyone and everything -- which I am trying to end. I've performed an experiment -- and my laboratory now seems to be in lockdown -- with sirens-wailing and lights-flashing. I simply think this thing is way too complex for me to properly deal with. I have mostly suspended judgment -- but now I think I need to suspend my experiment -- and move toward the mainstream -- for the remainder of this incarnation. This makes me very, very sad. One can get too far out on a very high limb. One can get so "above it all" that they lose touch. On the other hand -- my efforts to gel with even the "awake and aware" have failed to yield satisfactory results -- so I suppose, in a sense, I have lost confidence in those around me -- rather than necessarily losing confidence in myself (regarding meaningful and long-term dialogue). I mostly end-up talking to myself. It's easier that way. I just wish to cease being open and honest on the internet (or anywhere else, for that matter). I've been screwed-up for most of my life -- and attempts at enlightenment and honesty just seem to make things worse. Idealism seems to backfire on a regular basis. I'm not saying that I'll stop researching and reflecting. I'm simply saying that being vocal (on the internet and/or in real-life) doesn't seem to be working for me -- and I doubt that it ever will. I am a 'friend and foe' personality (with very little personality). I can be open and friendly -- but then I can turn right around and start asking difficult and provocative questions. I do this on the internet on a daily-basis -- but I usually keep my mouth shut in real-life. I am quite fatigued and stupid in real-life -- and things seem to be worsening. With every other person being a secret-agent (or related to someone who knows someone) -- with legion agencies and lists -- I'm really not enjoying being a 'marked-man'. I think I might like to write some sort of a book (which would be a very mild version of my internet stuff) -- and then just retire -- and disappear into a small mountain cabin (with a Deep Underground Civilian Basement) for the rest of my life. That's my story -- and I'm sticking to it.

    Last edited by orthodoxymoron on Thu Nov 19, 2015 1:35 pm; edited 4 times in total


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    Re: The United States of the Solar System: A.D. 2133 (Book One)

    Post  Seashore on Sat Mar 28, 2015 5:38 am

    orthodoxymoron wrote:

    I'm glad to see this one posted.  At the time of the conference, I purchased access to the archives of the conference, but Robert Morningstar's talk had technical difficulties and they didn't have his archive to offer but promised it at a later date.

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    Join date : 2010-09-28

    Re: The United States of the Solar System: A.D. 2133 (Book One)

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Sat Mar 28, 2015 2:14 pm

    Thank-you Seashore. This is the sort of thing I "like" to watch -- but it scares the hell out of me -- and I can only take so much at a time. I keep wondering if the Secret-Government and Secret Space-Program are somehow necessary -- but that both of them have gone "Rogue"??!! Once again -- I am gathering data -- while suspending judgment. I've tried to construct some type of "Big-Picture" with this thread -- but I'm NOT an "Insider". Not in this incarnation -- but who knows about other incarnations (if any)?? I've just created a "Road Less Traveled" for "Sirius-Researchers" -- as a Mental and Spiritual Exercise -- but I have no idea where this is going. I honestly don't. BTW -- Who is David Bowman?? What Would Sherry Say?? What Would Terry Say?? What Would HAL Say?? What Would COR Say?? That's all I'm going to say!! Sorry if I was rude to the two people who were snooping around the side of my house -- but that sort of thing sort of bothers me. A couple of days ago, I made my bi-monthly pilgrimage to a old Masonic-Cemetery. The oldest birth-date I could find was 1807!! There are literally dozens of birth and/or death dates prior to 1850!! That was almost a too primitive time. 1950 was probably about right. 2050 will probably be a Technological-Hell. I just walk through the cemetery while facing myself and thinking. It's sort of creepy to see the classic Masonic-Symbol side by side with the Upside-Down Five-Pointed Star!! There are a lot of war gravestones. I wonder about the stories of these people. It might be interesting to research the names on all of those markers!!

    I'm honestly winding this thread down -- even as I privately consider things I don't wish to discuss with anyone (publicly or privately). Compare the following "Two Bibles":

    1. Job through Luke (KJV).
    2. Genesis through Esther combined with John through Revelation (KJV).

    My primary mental and spiritual exercise involves quickly and aggressively reading Job through John (KJV) -- straight-through -- over and over -- while listening to the music of J.S. Bach. I imagine doing this activity in small office-apartments under the City of London -- and under the Dark-Side of the Moon!! The imagination is a wonderful thing!! Reality is often quite different!! Reality is SO Overrated!! Check this out!!

    My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials, 3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience. 4 But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing. 5 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him. 6 But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind. 7 For let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord; 8 he is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways. 9 Let the lowly brother glory in his exaltation, 10 but the rich in his humiliation, because as a flower of the field he will pass away. 11 For no sooner has the sun risen with a burning heat than it withers the grass; its flower falls, and its beautiful appearance perishes. So the rich man also will fade away in his pursuits. 12 Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. 13 Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. 14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death. 16 Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren. 17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning. 18 Of His own will He brought us forth by the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures. 19 So then, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath; 20 for the wrath of man does not produce the righteousness of God. 21 Therefore lay aside all filthiness and overflow of wickedness, and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls. 22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. 23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror; 24 for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was. 25 But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does. 26 If anyone among you thinks he is religious, and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this one's religion is useless. 27 Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.

    My brethren, do not hold the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with partiality. 2 For if there should come into your assembly a man with gold rings, in fine apparel, and there should also come in a poor man in filthy clothes, 3 and you pay attention to the one wearing the fine clothes and say to him, "You sit here in a good place," and say to the poor man, "You stand there," or, "Sit here at my footstool," 4 have you not shown partiality among yourselves, and become judges with evil thoughts? 5 Listen, my beloved brethren: Has God not chosen the poor of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him? 6 But you have dishonored the poor man. Do not the rich oppress you and drag you into the courts? 7 Do they not blaspheme that noble name by which you are called? 8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself," you do well; 9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, "Do not commit adultery," also said, "Do not murder." Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty. 13 For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment. 14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, "Depart in peace, be warmed and filled," but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. 18 But someone will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe--and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. 25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way? 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

    My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment. 2 For we all stumble in many things. If anyone does not stumble in word, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle the whole body. 3 Indeed, we put bits in horses' mouths that they may obey us, and we turn their whole body. 4 Look also at ships: although they are so large and are driven by fierce winds, they are turned by a very small rudder wherever the pilot desires. 5 Even so the tongue is a little member and boasts great things. See how great a forest a little fire kindles! 6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity. The tongue is so set among our members that it defiles the whole body, and sets on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire by hell. 7 For every kind of beast and bird, of reptile and creature of the sea, is tamed and has been tamed by mankind. 8 But no man can tame the tongue. It is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison. 9 With it we bless our God and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in the similitude of God. 10 Out of the same mouth proceed blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not to be so. 11 Does a spring send forth fresh water and bitter from the same opening? 12 Can a fig tree, my brethren, bear olives, or a grapevine bear figs? Thus no spring yields both salt water and fresh. 13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show by good conduct that his works are done in the meekness of wisdom. 14 But if you have bitter envy and self-seeking in your hearts, do not boast and lie against the truth. 15 This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic. 16 For where envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing are there. 17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy. 18 Now the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.

    Where do wars and fights come from among you? Do they not come from your desires for pleasure that war in your members? 2 You lust and do not have. You murder and covet and cannot obtain. You fight and war. Yet you do not have because you do not ask. 3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures. 4 Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. 5 Or do you think that the Scripture says in vain, "The Spirit who dwells in us yearns jealously"? 6 But He gives more grace. Therefore He says: "God resists the proud, But gives grace to the humble." 7 Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. 8 Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded. 9 Lament and mourn and weep! Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to gloom. 10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and He will lift you up. 11 Do not speak evil of one another, brethren. He who speaks evil of a brother and judges his brother, speaks evil of the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. 12 There is one Lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy. Who are you to judge another? 13 Come now, you who say, "Today or tomorrow we will go to such and such a city, spend a year there, buy and sell, and make a profit"; 14 whereas you do not know what will happen tomorrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapor that appears for a little time and then vanishes away. 15 Instead you ought to say, "If the Lord wills, we shall live and do this or that." 16 But now you boast in your arrogance. All such boasting is evil. 17 Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin.

    Come now, you rich, weep and howl for your miseries that are coming upon you! 2 Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are moth-eaten. 3 Your gold and silver are corroded, and their corrosion will be a witness against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have heaped up treasure in the last days. 4 Indeed the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, cry out; and the cries of the reapers have reached the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth. 5 You have lived on the earth in pleasure and luxury; you have fattened your hearts as in a day of slaughter. 6 You have condemned, you have murdered the just; he does not resist you. 7 Therefore be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. See how the farmer waits for the precious fruit of the earth, waiting patiently for it until it receives the early and latter rain. 8 You also be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand. 9 Do not grumble against one another, brethren, lest you be condemned. Behold, the Judge is standing at the door! 10 My brethren, take the prophets, who spoke in the name of the Lord, as an example of suffering and patience. 11 Indeed we count them blessed who endure. You have heard of the perseverance of Job and seen the end intended by the Lord--that the Lord is very compassionate and merciful. 12 But above all, my brethren, do not swear, either by heaven or by earth or with any other oath. But let your "Yes," be "Yes," and your "No," "No," lest you fall into judgment. 13 Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing psalms. 14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. 16 Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much. 17 Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed earnestly that it would not rain; and it did not rain on the land for three years and six months. 18 And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth produced its fruit. 19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

    Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD. 2 Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart. 3 They also do no iniquity: they walk in his ways. 4 Thou hast commanded us to keep thy precepts diligently. 5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes! 6 Then shall I not be ashamed , when I have respect unto all thy commandments. 7 I will praise thee with uprightness of heart, when I shall have learned thy righteous judgments. 8 I will keep thy statutes: O forsake me not utterly. 9 BETH. Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word. 10 With my whole heart have I sought thee: O let me not wander from thy commandments. 11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee. 12 Blessed art thou, O LORD: teach me thy statutes. 13 With my lips have I declared all the judgments of thy mouth. 14 I have rejoiced in the way of thy testimonies, as much as in all riches. 15 I will meditate in thy precepts, and have respect unto thy ways. 16 I will delight myself in thy statutes: I will not forget thy word. 17 GIMEL. Deal bountifully with thy servant, that I may live , and keep thy word. 18 Open thou mine eyes, that I may behold wondrous things out of thy law. 19 I am a stranger in the earth: hide not thy commandments from me. 20 My soul breaketh for the longing that it hath unto thy judgments at all times. 21 Thou hast rebuked the proud that are cursed , which do err from thy commandments. 22 Remove from me reproach and contempt; for I have kept thy testimonies. 23 Princes also did sit and speak against me: but thy servant did meditate in thy statutes. 24 Thy testimonies also are my delight and my counsellors . 25 DALETH. My soul cleaveth unto the dust: quicken thou me according to thy word. 26 I have declared my ways, and thou heardest me: teach me thy statutes. 27 Make me to understand the way of thy precepts: so shall I talk of thy wondrous works . 28 My soul melteth for heaviness: strengthen thou me according unto thy word. 29 Remove from me the way of lying: and grant me thy law graciously . 30 I have chosen the way of truth: thy judgments have I laid before me. 31 I have stuck unto thy testimonies: O LORD, put me not to shame . 32 I will run the way of thy commandments, when thou shalt enlarge my heart. 33 HE. Teach me, O LORD, the way of thy statutes; and I shall keep it unto the end. 34 Give me understanding , and I shall keep thy law; yea, I shall observe it with my whole heart. 35 Make me to go in the path of thy commandments; for therein do I delight . 36 Incline my heart unto thy testimonies, and not to covetousness. 37 Turn away mine eyes from beholding vanity; and quicken thou me in thy way. 38 Stablish thy word unto thy servant, who is devoted to thy fear. 39 Turn away my reproach which I fear : for thy judgments are good. 40 Behold, I have longed after thy precepts: quicken me in thy righteousness. 41 VAU. Let thy mercies come also unto me, O LORD, even thy salvation, according to thy word. 42 So shall I have wherewith to answer him that reproacheth me: for I trust in thy word. 43 And take not the word of truth utterly out of my mouth; for I have hoped in thy judgments. 44 So shall I keep thy law continually for ever and ever. 45 And I will walk at liberty: for I seek thy precepts. 46 I will speak of thy testimonies also before kings, and will not be ashamed . 47 And I will delight myself in thy commandments, which I have loved . 48 My hands also will I lift up unto thy commandments, which I have loved ; and I will meditate in thy statutes. 49 ZAIN. Remember the word unto thy servant, upon which thou hast caused me to hope . 50 This is my comfort in my affliction: for thy word hath quickened me. 51 The proud have had me greatly in derision : yet have I not declined from thy law. 52 I remembered thy judgments of old, O LORD; and have comforted myself. 53 Horror hath taken hold upon me because of the wicked that forsake thy law. 54 Thy statutes have been my songs in the house of my pilgrimage. 55 I have remembered thy name, O LORD, in the night, and have kept thy law. 56 This I had, because I kept thy precepts.

    Thou art my portion, O LORD: I have said that I would keep thy words. 58 I intreated thy favour with my whole heart: be merciful unto me according to thy word. 59 I thought on my ways, and turned my feet unto thy testimonies. 60 I made haste , and delayed not to keep thy commandments. 61 The bands of the wicked have robbed me: but I have not forgotten thy law. 62 At midnight I will rise to give thanks unto thee because of thy righteous judgments. 63 I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts. 64 The earth, O LORD, is full of thy mercy: teach me thy statutes. 65 TETH. Thou hast dealt well with thy servant, O LORD, according unto thy word. 66 Teach me good judgment and knowledge: for I have believed thy commandments. 67 Before I was afflicted I went astray : but now have I kept thy word. 68 Thou art good, and doest good ; teach me thy statutes. 69 The proud have forged a lie against me: but I will keep thy precepts with my whole heart. 70 Their heart is as fat as grease; but I delight in thy law. 71 It is good for me that I have been afflicted ; that I might learn thy statutes. 72 The law of thy mouth is better unto me than thousands of gold and silver. 73 JOD. Thy hands have made me and fashioned me: give me understanding , that I may learn thy commandments. 74 They that fear thee will be glad when they see me; because I have hoped in thy word. 75 I know , O LORD, that thy judgments are right, and that thou in faithfulness hast afflicted me. 76 Let, I pray thee, thy merciful kindness be for my comfort , according to thy word unto thy servant. 77 Let thy tender mercies come unto me, that I may live : for thy law is my delight. 78 Let the proud be ashamed ; for they dealt perversely with me without a cause: but I will meditate in thy precepts. 79 Let those that fear thee turn unto me, and those that have known thy testimonies. 80 Let my heart be sound in thy statutes; that I be not ashamed . 81 CAPH. My soul fainteth for thy salvation: but I hope in thy word. 82 Mine eyes fail for thy word, saying , When wilt thou comfort me? 83 For I am become like a bottle in the smoke; yet do I not forget thy statutes. 84 How many are the days of thy servant? when wilt thou execute judgment on them that persecute me? 85 The proud have digged pits for me, which are not after thy law. 86 All thy commandments are faithful: they persecute me wrongfully; help thou me. 87 They had almost consumed me upon earth; but I forsook not thy precepts. 88 Quicken me after thy lovingkindness; so shall I keep the testimony of thy mouth. 89 LAMED. For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. 90 Thy faithfulness is unto all generations: thou hast established the earth, and it abideth . 91 They continue this day according to thine ordinances: for all are thy servants. 92 Unless thy law had been my delights, I should then have perished in mine affliction. 93 I will never forget thy precepts: for with them thou hast quickened me. 94 I am thine, save me; for I have sought thy precepts. 95 The wicked have waited for me to destroy me: but I will consider thy testimonies. 96 I have seen an end of all perfection: but thy commandment is exceeding broad. 97 MEM. O how love I thy law! it is my meditation all the day. 98 Thou through thy commandments hast made me wiser than mine enemies : for they are ever with me. 99 I have more understanding than all my teachers : for thy testimonies are my meditation. 100 I understand more than the ancients, because I keep thy precepts. 101 I have refrained my feet from every evil way, that I might keep thy word. 102 I have not departed from thy judgments: for thou hast taught me. 103 How sweet are thy words unto my taste! yea, sweeter than honey to my mouth! 104 Through thy precepts I get understanding : therefore I hate every false way. 105 NUN. Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. 106 I have sworn , and I will perform it, that I will keep thy righteous judgments. 107 I am afflicted very much: quicken me, O LORD, according unto thy word. 108 Accept , I beseech thee, the freewill offerings of my mouth, O LORD, and teach me thy judgments. 109 My soul is continually in my hand: yet do I not forget thy law. 110 The wicked have laid a snare for me: yet I erred not from thy precepts. 111 Thy testimonies have I taken as an heritage for ever: for they are the rejoicing of my heart. 112 I have inclined mine heart to perform thy statutes alway, even unto the end. 113 SAMECH. I hate vain thoughts: but thy law do I love . 114 Thou art my hiding place and my shield: I hope in thy word. 115 Depart from me, ye evildoers : for I will keep the commandments of my God. 116 Uphold me according unto thy word, that I may live : and let me not be ashamed of my hope. 117 Hold thou me up , and I shall be safe : and I will have respect unto thy statutes continually. 118 Thou hast trodden down all them that err from thy statutes: for their deceit is falsehood. 119 Thou puttest away all the wicked of the earth like dross: therefore I love thy testimonies. 120 My flesh trembleth for fear of thee; and I am afraid of thy judgments.

    I have done judgment and justice: leave me not to mine oppressors . 122 Be surety for thy servant for good: let not the proud oppress me. 123 Mine eyes fail for thy salvation, and for the word of thy righteousness. 124 Deal with thy servant according unto thy mercy, and teach me thy statutes. 125 I am thy servant; give me understanding , that I may know thy testimonies. 126 It is time for thee, LORD, to work : for they have made void thy law. 127 Therefore I love thy commandments above gold; yea, above fine gold. 128 Therefore I esteem all thy precepts concerning all things to be right ; and I hate every false way. 129 PE. Thy testimonies are wonderful: therefore doth my soul keep them. 130 The entrance of thy words giveth light ; it giveth understanding unto the simple. 131 I opened my mouth, and panted : for I longed for thy commandments. 132 Look thou upon me, and be merciful unto me, as thou usest to do unto those that love thy name. 133 Order my steps in thy word: and let not any iniquity have dominion over me. 134 Deliver me from the oppression of man: so will I keep thy precepts. 135 Make thy face to shine upon thy servant; and teach me thy statutes. 136 Rivers of waters run down mine eyes, because they keep not thy law. 137 TZADDI. Righteous art thou, O LORD, and upright are thy judgments. 138 Thy testimonies that thou hast commanded are righteous and very faithful. 139 My zeal hath consumed me, because mine enemies have forgotten thy words. 140 Thy word is very pure : therefore thy servant loveth it. 141 I am small and despised : yet do not I forget thy precepts. 142 Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth. 143 Trouble and anguish have taken hold on me: yet thy commandments are my delights. 144 The righteousness of thy testimonies is everlasting: give me understanding , and I shall live . 145 KOPH. I cried with my whole heart; hear me, O LORD: I will keep thy statutes. 146 I cried unto thee; save me, and I shall keep thy testimonies. 147 I prevented the dawning of the morning, and cried : I hoped in thy word. 148 Mine eyes prevent the night watches, that I might meditate in thy word. 149 Hear my voice according unto thy lovingkindness: O LORD, quicken me according to thy judgment. 150 They draw nigh that follow after mischief: they are far from thy law. 151 Thou art near, O LORD; and all thy commandments are truth. 152 Concerning thy testimonies, I have known of old that thou hast founded them for ever. 153 RESH. Consider mine affliction, and deliver me: for I do not forget thy law. 154 Plead my cause, and deliver me: quicken me according to thy word. 155 Salvation is far from the wicked: for they seek not thy statutes. 156 Great are thy tender mercies, O LORD: quicken me according to thy judgments. 157 Many are my persecutors and mine enemies; yet do I not decline from thy testimonies. 158 I beheld the transgressors , and was grieved ; because they kept not thy word. 159 Consider how I love thy precepts: quicken me, O LORD, according to thy lovingkindness. 160 Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. 161 SCHIN. Princes have persecuted me without a cause: but my heart standeth in awe of thy word. 162 I rejoice at thy word, as one that findeth great spoil. 163 I hate and abhor lying: but thy law do I love . 164 Seven times a day do I praise thee because of thy righteous judgments. 165 Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them. 166 LORD, I have hoped for thy salvation, and done thy commandments. 167 My soul hath kept thy testimonies; and I love them exceedingly. 168 I have kept thy precepts and thy testimonies: for all my ways are before thee. 169 TAU. Let my cry come near before thee, O LORD: give me understanding according to thy word. 170 Let my supplication come before thee: deliver me according to thy word. 171 My lips shall utter praise, when thou hast taught me thy statutes. 172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness. 173 Let thine hand help me; for I have chosen thy precepts. 174 I have longed for thy salvation, O LORD; and thy law is my delight. 175 Let my soul live , and it shall praise thee; and let thy judgments help me. 176 I have gone astray like a lost sheep; seek thy servant; for I do not forget thy commandments.

    Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity. 3 What profit hath a man of all his labour which he taketh under the sun? 4 One generation passeth away , and another generation cometh : but the earth abideth for ever. 5 The sun also ariseth , and the sun goeth down , and hasteth to his place where he arose . 6 The wind goeth toward the south, and turneth about unto the north; it whirleth about continually , and the wind returneth again according to his circuits. 7 All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea is not full; unto the place from whence the rivers come , thither they return again . 8 All things are full of labour; man cannot utter it: the eye is not satisfied with seeing , nor the ear filled with hearing . 9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done : and there is no new thing under the sun. 10 Is there any thing whereof it may be said , See , this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us. 11 There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after. 12 I the Preacher was king over Israel in Jerusalem. 13 And I gave my heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all things that are done under heaven: this sore travail hath God given to the sons of man to be exercised therewith. 14 I have seen all the works that are done under the sun; and, behold, all is vanity and vexation of spirit. 15 That which is crooked cannot be made straight : and that which is wanting cannot be numbered . 16 I communed with mine own heart, saying , Lo, I am come to great estate , and have gotten more wisdom than all they that have been before me in Jerusalem: yea, my heart had great experience of wisdom and knowledge. 17 And I gave my heart to know wisdom, and to know madness and folly: I perceived that this also is vexation of spirit. 18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.

    I said in mine heart, Go to now , I will prove thee with mirth, therefore enjoy pleasure: and, behold, this also is vanity. 2 I said of laughter, It is mad : and of mirth, What doeth it? 3 I sought in mine heart to give myself unto wine, yet acquainting mine heart with wisdom; and to lay hold on folly, till I might see what was that good for the sons of men, which they should do under the heaven all the days of their life. 4 I made me great works; I builded me houses; I planted me vineyards: 5 I made me gardens and orchards, and I planted trees in them of all kind of fruits: 6 I made me pools of water, to water therewith the wood that bringeth forth trees: 7 I got me servants and maidens, and had servants born in my house; also I had great possessions of great and small cattle above all that were in Jerusalem before me: 8 I gathered me also silver and gold, and the peculiar treasure of kings and of the provinces: I gat me men singers and women singers , and the delights of the sons of men, as musical instruments , and that of all sorts. 9 So I was great , and increased more than all that were before me in Jerusalem: also my wisdom remained with me. 10 And whatsoever mine eyes desired I kept not from them, I withheld not my heart from any joy; for my heart rejoiced in all my labour: and this was my portion of all my labour. 11 Then I looked on all the works that my hands had wrought , and on the labour that I had laboured to do : and, behold, all was vanity and vexation of spirit, and there was no profit under the sun. 12 And I turned myself to behold wisdom, and madness, and folly: for what can the man do that cometh after the king? even that which hath been already done . 13 Then I saw that wisdom excelleth folly, as far as light excelleth darkness. 14 The wise man's eyes are in his head; but the fool walketh in darkness: and I myself perceived also that one event happeneth to them all. 15 Then said I in my heart, As it happeneth to the fool, so it happeneth even to me; and why was I then more wise ? Then I said in my heart, that this also is vanity. 16 For there is no remembrance of the wise more than of the fool for ever; seeing that which now is in the days to come shall all be forgotten . And how dieth the wise man? as the fool. 17 Therefore I hated life; because the work that is wrought under the sun is grievous unto me: for all is vanity and vexation of spirit. 18 Yea, I hated all my labour which I had taken under the sun: because I should leave it unto the man that shall be after me. 19 And who knoweth whether he shall be a wise man or a fool? yet shall he have rule over all my labour wherein I have laboured , and wherein I have shewed myself wise under the sun. This is also vanity. 20 Therefore I went about to cause my heart to despair of all the labour which I took under the sun. 21 For there is a man whose labour is in wisdom, and in knowledge, and in equity; yet to a man that hath not laboured therein shall he leave it for his portion. This also is vanity and a great evil. 22 For what hath man of all his labour, and of the vexation of his heart, wherein he hath laboured under the sun? 23 For all his days are sorrows, and his travail grief; yea, his heart taketh not rest in the night. This is also vanity. 24 There is nothing better for a man, than that he should eat and drink , and that he should make his soul enjoy good in his labour. This also I saw , that it was from the hand of God. 25 For who can eat , or who else can hasten hereunto, more than I? 26 For God giveth to a man that is good in his sight wisdom, and knowledge, and joy: but to the sinner he giveth travail, to gather and to heap up , that he may give to him that is good before God. This also is vanity and vexation of spirit.

    To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: 2 A time to be born , and a time to die ; a time to plant , and a time to pluck up that which is planted ; 3 A time to kill , and a time to heal ; a time to break down , and a time to build up ; 4 A time to weep , and a time to laugh ; a time to mourn , and a time to dance ; 5 A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together ; a time to embrace , and a time to refrain from embracing ; 6 A time to get , and a time to lose ; a time to keep , and a time to cast away ; 7 A time to rend , and a time to sew ; a time to keep silence , and a time to speak ; 8 A time to love , and a time to hate ; a time of war, and a time of peace. 9 What profit hath he that worketh in that wherein he laboureth? 10 I have seen the travail, which God hath given to the sons of men to be exercised in it. 11 He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end. 12 I know that there is no good in them, but for a man to rejoice , and to do good in his life. 13 And also that every man should eat and drink , and enjoy the good of all his labour, it is the gift of God. 14 I know that, whatsoever God doeth , it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him. 15 That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past . 16 And moreover I saw under the sun the place of judgment, that wickedness was there; and the place of righteousness, that iniquity was there. 17 I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work. 18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts. 19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. 20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again . 21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth? 22 Wherefore I perceive that there is nothing better, than that a man should rejoice in his own works; for that is his portion: for who shall bring him to see what shall be after him?

    So I returned , and considered all the oppressions that are done under the sun: and behold the tears of such as were oppressed , and they had no comforter ; and on the side of their oppressors there was power; but they had no comforter . 2 Wherefore I praised the dead which are already dead more than the living which are yet alive. 3 Yea, better is he than both they, which hath not yet been, who hath not seen the evil work that is done under the sun. 4 Again, I considered all travail, and every right work, that for this a man is envied of his neighbour. This is also vanity and vexation of spirit. 5 The fool foldeth his hands together , and eateth his own flesh. 6 Better is an handful with quietness, than both the hands full with travail and vexation of spirit. 7 Then I returned , and I saw vanity under the sun. 8 There is one alone, and there is not a second; yea, he hath neither child nor brother: yet is there no end of all his labour; neither is his eye satisfied with riches; neither saith he, For whom do I labour, and bereave my soul of good? This is also vanity, yea, it is a sore travail. 9 Two are better than one; because they have a good reward for their labour. 10 For if they fall , the one will lift up his fellow: but woe to him that is alone when he falleth ; for he hath not another to help him up . 11 Again, if two lie together , then they have heat : but how can one be warm alone? 12 And if one prevail against him, two shall withstand him; and a threefold cord is not quickly broken . 13 Better is a poor and a wise child than an old and foolish king, who will no more be admonished . 14 For out of prison he cometh to reign ; whereas also he that is born in his kingdom becometh poor . 15 I considered all the living which walk under the sun, with the second child that shall stand up in his stead. 16 There is no end of all the people, even of all that have been before them: they also that come after shall not rejoice in him. Surely this also is vanity and vexation of spirit.

    Keep thy foot when thou goest to the house of God, and be more ready to hear , than to give the sacrifice of fools: for they consider not that they do evil. 2 Be not rash with thy mouth, and let not thine heart be hasty to utter any thing before God: for God is in heaven, and thou upon earth: therefore let thy words be few. 3 For a dream cometh through the multitude of business; and a fool's voice is known by multitude of words. 4 When thou vowest a vow unto God, defer not to pay it; for he hath no pleasure in fools: pay that which thou hast vowed . 5 Better is it that thou shouldest not vow , than that thou shouldest vow and not pay . 6 Suffer not thy mouth to cause thy flesh to sin ; neither say thou before the angel, that it was an error: wherefore should God be angry at thy voice, and destroy the work of thine hands? 7 For in the multitude of dreams and many words there are also divers vanities: but fear thou God. 8 If thou seest the oppression of the poor , and violent perverting of judgment and justice in a province, marvel not at the matter: for he that is higher than the highest regardeth ; and there be higher than they. 9 Moreover the profit of the earth is for all: the king himself is served by the field. 10 He that loveth silver shall not be satisfied with silver; nor he that loveth abundance with increase: this is also vanity. 11 When goods increase , they are increased that eat them: and what good is there to the owners thereof, saving the beholding of them with their eyes? 12 The sleep of a labouring man is sweet, whether he eat little or much : but the abundance of the rich will not suffer him to sleep . 13 There is a sore evil which I have seen under the sun, namely, riches kept for the owners thereof to their hurt. 14 But those riches perish by evil travail: and he begetteth a son, and there is nothing in his hand. 15 As he came forth of his mother's womb, naked shall he return to go as he came , and shall take nothing of his labour, which he may carry away in his hand. 16 And this also is a sore evil, that in all points as he came , so shall he go : and what profit hath he that hath laboured for the wind? 17 All his days also he eateth in darkness, and he hath much sorrow and wrath with his sickness. 18 Behold that which I have seen : it is good and comely for one to eat and to drink , and to enjoy the good of all his labour that he taketh under the sun all the days of his life, which God giveth him: for it is his portion. 19 Every man also to whom God hath given riches and wealth, and hath given him power to eat thereof, and to take his portion, and to rejoice in his labour; this is the gift of God. 20 For he shall not much remember the days of his life; because God answereth him in the joy of his heart.

    There is an evil which I have seen under the sun, and it is common among men: 2 A man to whom God hath given riches, wealth, and honour, so that he wanteth nothing for his soul of all that he desireth , yet God giveth him not power to eat thereof, but a stranger eateth it: this is vanity, and it is an evil disease. 3 If a man beget an hundred children, and live many years, so that the days of his years be many, and his soul be not filled with good, and also that he have no burial; I say , that an untimely birth is better than he. 4 For he cometh in with vanity, and departeth in darkness, and his name shall be covered with darkness. 5 Moreover he hath not seen the sun, nor known any thing: this hath more rest than the other. 6 Yea, though he live a thousand years twice told, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place? 7 All the labour of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled . 8 For what hath the wise more than the fool? what hath the poor, that knoweth to walk before the living? 9 Better is the sight of the eyes than the wandering of the desire: this is also vanity and vexation of spirit. 10 That which hath been is named already, and it is known that it is man: neither may he contend with him that is mightier than he. 11 Seeing there be many things that increase vanity, what is man the better? 12 For who knoweth what is good for man in this life, all the days of his vain life which he spendeth as a shadow? for who can tell a man what shall be after him under the sun?

    A good name is better than precious ointment; and the day of death than the day of one's birth . 2 It is better to go to the house of mourning, than to go to the house of feasting: for that is the end of all men; and the living will lay it to his heart. 3 Sorrow is better than laughter: for by the sadness of the countenance the heart is made better . 4 The heart of the wise is in the house of mourning; but the heart of fools is in the house of mirth. 5 It is better to hear the rebuke of the wise, than for a man to hear the song of fools. 6 For as the crackling of thorns under a pot, so is the laughter of the fool: this also is vanity. 7 Surely oppression maketh a wise man mad ; and a gift destroyeth the heart. 8 Better is the end of a thing than the beginning thereof: and the patient in spirit is better than the proud in spirit. 9 Be not hasty in thy spirit to be angry : for anger resteth in the bosom of fools. 10 Say not thou, What is the cause that the former days were better than these? for thou dost not enquire wisely concerning this. 11 Wisdom is good with an inheritance: and by it there is profit to them that see the sun. 12 For wisdom is a defence, and money is a defence: but the excellency of knowledge is, that wisdom giveth life to them that have it. 13 Consider the work of God: for who can make that straight , which he hath made crooked ? 14 In the day of prosperity be joyful, but in the day of adversity consider : God also hath set the one over against the other, to the end that man should find nothing after him. 15 All things have I seen in the days of my vanity: there is a just man that perisheth in his righteousness, and there is a wicked man that prolongeth his life in his wickedness. 16 Be not righteous over much ; neither make thyself over wise : why shouldest thou destroy thyself? 17 Be not over much wicked , neither be thou foolish: why shouldest thou die before thy time? 18 It is good that thou shouldest take hold of this; yea, also from this withdraw not thine hand: for he that feareth God shall come forth of them all. 19 Wisdom strengtheneth the wise more than ten mighty men which are in the city. 20 For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not. 21 Also take no heed unto all words that are spoken ; lest thou hear thy servant curse thee: 22 For oftentimes also thine own heart knoweth that thou thyself likewise hast cursed others. 23 All this have I proved by wisdom: I said , I will be wise ; but it was far from me. 24 That which is far off, and exceeding deep, who can find it out ? 25 I applied mine heart to know , and to search , and to seek out wisdom, and the reason of things, and to know the wickedness of folly, even of foolishness and madness: 26 And I find more bitter than death the woman, whose heart is snares and nets, and her hands as bands: whoso pleaseth God shall escape from her; but the sinner shall be taken by her. 27 Behold , this have I found , saith the preacher, counting one by one, to find out the account: 28 Which yet my soul seeketh , but I find not: one man among a thousand have I found ; but a woman among all those have I not found . 29 Lo , this only have I found , that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.

    Who is as the wise man? and who knoweth the interpretation of a thing? a man's wisdom maketh his face to shine , and the boldness of his face shall be changed . 2 I counsel thee to keep the king's commandment, and that in regard of the oath of God. 3 Be not hasty to go out of his sight: stand not in an evil thing; for he doeth whatsoever pleaseth him. 4 Where the word of a king is, there is power: and who may say unto him, What doest thou? 5 Whoso keepeth the commandment shall feel no evil thing: and a wise man's heart discerneth both time and judgment. 6 Because to every purpose there is time and judgment, therefore the misery of man is great upon him. 7 For he knoweth not that which shall be: for who can tell him when it shall be? 8 There is no man that hath power over the spirit to retain the spirit; neither hath he power in the day of death: and there is no discharge in that war; neither shall wickedness deliver those that are given to it. 9 All this have I seen , and applied my heart unto every work that is done under the sun: there is a time wherein one man ruleth over another to his own hurt. 10 And so I saw the wicked buried , who had come and gone from the place of the holy, and they were forgotten in the city where they had so done : this is also vanity. 11 Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil. 12 Though a sinner do evil an hundred times, and his days be prolonged , yet surely I know that it shall be well with them that fear God, which fear before him: 13 But it shall not be well with the wicked, neither shall he prolong his days, which are as a shadow; because he feareth not before God. 14 There is a vanity which is done upon the earth; that there be just men, unto whom it happeneth according to the work of the wicked; again, there be wicked men, to whom it happeneth according to the work of the righteous: I said that this also is vanity. 15 Then I commended mirth, because a man hath no better thing under the sun, than to eat , and to drink , and to be merry : for that shall abide with him of his labour the days of his life, which God giveth him under the sun. 16 When I applied mine heart to know wisdom, and to see the business that is done upon the earth: (for also there is that neither day nor night seeth sleep with his eyes:) 17 Then I beheld all the work of God, that a man cannot find out the work that is done under the sun: because though a man labour to seek it out , yet he shall not find it; yea further; though a wise man think to know it, yet shall he not be able to find it.

    For all this I considered in my heart even to declare all this, that the righteous, and the wise, and their works, are in the hand of God: no man knoweth either love or hatred by all that is before them. 2 All things come alike to all: there is one event to the righteous, and to the wicked; to the good and to the clean, and to the unclean; to him that sacrificeth , and to him that sacrificeth not: as is the good, so is the sinner ; and he that sweareth , as he that feareth an oath. 3 This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead . 4 For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion. 5 For the living know that they shall die : but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten . 6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished ; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun. 7 Go thy way , eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works. 8 Let thy garments be always white; and let thy head lack no ointment. 9 Live joyfully with the wife whom thou lovest all the days of the life of thy vanity, which he hath given thee under the sun, all the days of thy vanity: for that is thy portion in this life, and in thy labour which thou takest under the sun. 10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do , do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest . 11 I returned , and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding , nor yet favour to men of skill ; but time and chance happeneth to them all. 12 For man also knoweth not his time: as the fishes that are taken in an evil net, and as the birds that are caught in the snare; so are the sons of men snared in an evil time, when it falleth suddenly upon them. 13 This wisdom have I seen also under the sun, and it seemed great unto me: 14 There was a little city, and few men within it; and there came a great king against it, and besieged it, and built great bulwarks against it: 15 Now there was found in it a poor wise man, and he by his wisdom delivered the city; yet no man remembered that same poor man. 16 Then said I, Wisdom is better than strength: nevertheless the poor man's wisdom is despised , and his words are not heard . 17 The words of wise men are heard in quiet more than the cry of him that ruleth among fools. 18 Wisdom is better than weapons of war: but one sinner destroyeth much good.

    Dead flies cause the ointment of the apothecary to send forth a stinking savour : so doth a little folly him that is in reputation for wisdom and honour. 2 A wise man's heart is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left. 3 Yea also, when he that is a fool walketh by the way, his wisdom faileth him, and he saith to every one that he is a fool. 4 If the spirit of the ruler rise up against thee, leave not thy place; for yielding pacifieth great offences. 5 There is an evil which I have seen under the sun, as an error which proceedeth from the ruler: 6 Folly is set in great dignity, and the rich sit in low place. 7 I have seen servants upon horses, and princes walking as servants upon the earth. 8 He that diggeth a pit shall fall into it; and whoso breaketh an hedge, a serpent shall bite him. 9 Whoso removeth stones shall be hurt therewith; and he that cleaveth wood shall be endangered thereby. 10 If the iron be blunt , and he do not whet the edge, then must he put to more strength: but wisdom is profitable to direct . 11 Surely the serpent will bite without enchantment; and a babbler is no better. 12 The words of a wise man's mouth are gracious; but the lips of a fool will swallow up himself. 13 The beginning of the words of his mouth is foolishness: and the end of his talk is mischievous madness. 14 A fool also is full of words: a man cannot tell what shall be; and what shall be after him, who can tell him? 15 The labour of the foolish wearieth every one of them, because he knoweth not how to go to the city. 16 Woe to thee, O land, when thy king is a child, and thy princes eat in the morning! 17 Blessed art thou, O land, when thy king is the son of nobles, and thy princes eat in due season, for strength, and not for drunkenness! 18 By much slothfulness the building decayeth ; and through idleness of the hands the house droppeth through . 19 A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry : but money answereth all things. 20 Curse not the king, no not in thy thought; and curse not the rich in thy bedchamber : for a bird of the air shall carry the voice, and that which hath wings shall tell the matter.

    Cast thy bread upon the waters: for thou shalt find it after many days. 2 Give a portion to seven, and also to eight; for thou knowest not what evil shall be upon the earth. 3 If the clouds be full of rain, they empty themselves upon the earth: and if the tree fall toward the south, or toward the north, in the place where the tree falleth , there it shall be . 4 He that observeth the wind shall not sow ; and he that regardeth the clouds shall not reap . 5 As thou knowest not what is the way of the spirit, nor how the bones do grow in the womb of her that is with child: even so thou knowest not the works of God who maketh all. 6 In the morning sow thy seed, and in the evening withhold not thine hand: for thou knowest not whether shall prosper , either this or that, or whether they both shall be alike good. 7 Truly the light is sweet, and a pleasant thing it is for the eyes to behold the sun: 8 But if a man live many years, and rejoice in them all; yet let him remember the days of darkness; for they shall be many . All that cometh is vanity. 9 Rejoice , O young man, in thy youth; and let thy heart cheer thee in the days of thy youth, and walk in the ways of thine heart, and in the sight of thine eyes: but know thou, that for all these things God will bring thee into judgment. 10 Therefore remove sorrow from thy heart, and put away evil from thy flesh: for childhood and youth are vanity.

    Remember now thy Creator in the days of thy youth, while the evil days come not, nor the years draw nigh , when thou shalt say , I have no pleasure in them; 2 While the sun, or the light, or the moon, or the stars, be not darkened , nor the clouds return after the rain: 3 In the day when the keepers of the house shall tremble , and the strong men shall bow themselves, and the grinders cease because they are few , and those that look out of the windows be darkened , 4 And the doors shall be shut in the streets, when the sound of the grinding is low, and he shall rise up at the voice of the bird, and all the daughters of musick shall be brought low ; 5 Also when they shall be afraid of that which is high, and fears shall be in the way, and the almond tree shall flourish , and the grasshopper shall be a burden , and desire shall fail : because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets: 6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed , or the golden bowl be broken , or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern. 7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. 8 Vanity of vanities, saith the preacher; all is vanity. 9 And moreover, because the preacher was wise, he still taught the people knowledge; yea, he gave good heed , and sought out , and set in order many proverbs. 10 The preacher sought to find out acceptable words: and that which was written was upright, even words of truth. 11 The words of the wise are as goads, and as nails fastened by the masters of assemblies, which are given from one shepherd . 12 And further, by these, my son, be admonished : of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh. 13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing , whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

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    Re: The United States of the Solar System: A.D. 2133 (Book One)

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Sat Mar 28, 2015 2:20 pm

    I hate to say it -- but theology has been a lifelong nightmare. It should've been just the opposite -- but I often wish I could just walk away from religion -- the Bible -- religious-people -- theological books -- etc. and et al. The Bible -- Religion -- and Theology have always been problematic -- but the last six years have been almost unbearable. The standard-answers stopped working -- and the new-answers created more problems than Carter has Pills. Remember "Carter's Little Farter-Starters"?! "He who farts in church -- sits in his own pew!!" I keep feeling as if the PTB (middle-management on-up) have gotten kicked where it counts over the past couple of decades -- and that the Empire is about to Strike Back with a vengeance. I think we've had a Secret Solar System Government for thousands of years -- but I think this SSSG might be in the process of Coming Out of the Closet (whether anyone likes it, or not). I keep thinking that no one will like the Emerging Brave New Universe. I keep wondering whether Job through Malachi will render the rest of the Bible obsolete (if anyone bothers to read it carefully). I think most people are not troubled by religion -- because they don't know and/or don't care. Ignorance and Apathy are Bliss. I wish to move-on to Clean Sheet of Stone Solutions -- but History must be properly handled -- so as to provide a Sustainable Foundation for New Theologies and Philosophies. For me -- studying theology is sort of like the guy who hits himself repeatedly over the head with a hammer -- because it feels so good when he quits!!

    Anyway -- try reading Job through Malachi (KJV) straight-through (over and over) while listening to the music of J.S. Bach. I'm not suggesting that this will make you happy. I'm not suggesting this in a stand-offish manner. I'm simply suggesting that some serious researchers give this approach their undivided-attention for a significant time-period. I consider this thread to be reformative and experimental -- rather than being normative and/or ready for prime-time. I continue to think that I'm majorly burned-out -- but I don't think I'm crazy in any way, shape, or form. The fact that you might not understand or be capable of keeping-up -- does not constitute craziness on my part. The universe might be stranger than any of us can think -- and if someone attempts to think God's thoughts after Him and/or Her -- this should not be construed as being some sort of a mental-illness which might require that they be placed on multiple agency lists -- and hounded like some sort of a dangerous animal. At this point -- I have very little inclination to go out of my way to intercede for humanity and/or divinity. I'm frankly disillusioned with both. One more thing. Is there really something to the concept of Genesis through Esther combined with Matthew through Revelation as being essentially two-sides of the same Covenantal-Coin -- and largely indivisible -- with little legitimate opportunity to pick and choose?? If one claims one or two portions (say the Decalogue or Righteousness by Faith) can most of the rest be relegated to the back of the bus -- or thrown under the bus?? Has Christianity become sort of a Santa Claus Story for the children?? What do the best and brightest theologians really think?? What do they say to each other behind closed-doors?? What is the Pope really thinking as he stands before the vast crowds in Rome?? We might be surprised...

    To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding;  3 To receive the instruction of wisdom , justice, and judgment, and equity;  4 To give subtilty to the simple, to the young man knowledge and discretion.  5 A wise man will hear , and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels:  6 To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings.  7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.  8 My son, hear the instruction of thy father, and forsake not the law of thy mother:  9 For they shall be an ornament of grace unto thy head, and chains about thy neck.  10 My son, if sinners entice thee, consent thou not.  11 If they say , Come with us, let us lay wait for blood, let us lurk privily for the innocent without cause:  12 Let us swallow them up alive as the grave; and whole, as those that go down into the pit:  13 We shall find all precious substance, we shall fill our houses with spoil:  14 Cast in thy lot among us; let us all have one purse:  15 My son, walk not thou in the way with them; refrain thy foot from their path:  16 For their feet run to evil, and make haste to shed blood.  17 Surely in vain the net is spread in the sight of any bird .  18 And they lay wait for their own blood; they lurk privily for their own lives.  19 So are the ways of every one that is greedy of gain; which taketh away the life of the owners thereof.  20 Wisdom crieth without; she uttereth her voice in the streets:  21 She crieth in the chief place of concourse , in the openings of the gates: in the city she uttereth her words, saying,  22 How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?  23 Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.  24 Because I have called , and ye refused ; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded ;  25 But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof:  26 I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh ;  27 When your fear cometh as desolation  , and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you.  28 Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer ; they shall seek me early , but they shall not find me:  29 For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:  30 They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof.  31 Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices.  32 For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, and the prosperity of fools shall destroy them.  33 But whoso hearkeneth unto me shall dwell safely, and shall be quiet from fear of evil.

    My son, if thou wilt receive my words, and hide my commandments with thee;  2 So that thou incline thine ear unto wisdom, and apply thine heart to understanding;  3 Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding;  4 If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as for hid treasures;  5 Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God.  6 For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding.  7 He layeth up sound wisdom for the righteous: he is a buckler to them that walk uprightly.  8 He keepeth the paths of judgment, and preserveth the way of his saints.  9 Then shalt thou understand righteousness, and judgment, and equity; yea, every good path.  10 When wisdom entereth into thine heart, and knowledge is pleasant unto thy soul;  11 Discretion shall preserve thee, understanding shall keep thee:  12 To deliver thee from the way of the evil man, from the man that speaketh froward things;  13 Who leave the paths of uprightness, to walk in the ways of darkness;  14 Who rejoice to do evil, and delight in the frowardness of the wicked;  15 Whose ways are crooked, and they froward in their paths:  16 To deliver thee from the strange woman, even from the stranger which flattereth with her words;  17 Which forsaketh the guide of her youth, and forgetteth the covenant of her God.  18 For her house inclineth unto death, and her paths unto the dead.  19 None that go unto her return again , neither take they hold of the paths of life.  20 That thou mayest walk in the way of good men, and keep the paths of the righteous.  21 For the upright shall dwell in the land, and the perfect shall remain in it.  22 But the wicked shall be cut off from the earth, and the transgressors shall be rooted out of it.

    My son, forget not my law; but let thine heart keep my commandments:  2 For length of days, and long life, and peace, shall they add to thee.  3 Let not mercy and truth forsake thee: bind them about thy neck; write them upon the table of thine heart:  4 So shalt thou find favour and good understanding in the sight of God and man.  5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.  6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.  7 Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.  8 It shall be health to thy navel, and marrow to thy bones.  9 Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase:  10 So shall thy barns be filled with plenty, and thy presses shall burst out with new wine.  11 My son, despise not the chastening of the LORD; neither be weary of his correction:  12 For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth ; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth .  13 Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding.  14 For the merchandise of it is better than the merchandise of silver, and the gain thereof than fine gold.  15 She is more precious than rubies: and all the things thou canst desire are not to be compared unto her.  16 Length of days is in her right hand; and in her left hand riches and honour.  17 Her ways are ways of pleasantness, and all her paths are peace.  18 She is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her: and happy is every one that retaineth her.  19 The LORD by wisdom hath founded the earth; by understanding hath he established the heavens.  20 By his knowledge the depths are broken up , and the clouds drop down the dew.  21 My son, let not them depart from thine eyes: keep sound wisdom and discretion:  22 So shall they be life unto thy soul, and grace to thy neck.  23 Then shalt thou walk in thy way safely, and thy foot shall not stumble .  24 When thou liest down , thou shalt not be afraid : yea, thou shalt lie down , and thy sleep shall be sweet .  25 Be not afraid of sudden fear, neither of the desolation of the wicked, when it cometh .  26 For the LORD shall be thy confidence, and shall keep thy foot from being taken.  27 Withhold not good from them to whom it is due, when it is in the power of thine hand to do it.  28 Say not unto thy neighbour, Go , and come again , and to morrow I will give ; when thou hast it by thee.  29 Devise not evil against thy neighbour, seeing he dwelleth securely by thee.  30 Strive not with a man without cause, if he have done thee no harm.  31 Envy thou not the oppressor , and choose none of his ways.  32 For the froward is abomination to the LORD: but his secret is with the righteous.  33 The curse of the LORD is in the house of the wicked: but he blesseth the habitation of the just.  34 Surely he scorneth the scorners : but he giveth grace unto the lowly  .  35 The wise shall inherit glory: but shame shall be the promotion of fools.

    Hear , ye children, the instruction of a father, and attend to know understanding.  2 For I give you good doctrine, forsake ye not my law.  3 For I was my father's son, tender and only beloved in the sight of my mother.  4 He taught me also, and said unto me, Let thine heart retain my words: keep my commandments, and live .  5 Get wisdom, get understanding: forget it not; neither decline from the words of my mouth.  6 Forsake her not, and she shall preserve thee: love her, and she shall keep thee.  7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.  8 Exalt her, and she shall promote thee: she shall bring thee to honour , when thou dost embrace her.  9 She shall give to thine head an ornament of grace: a crown of glory shall she deliver to thee.  10 Hear , O my son, and receive my sayings; and the years of thy life shall be many .  11 I have taught thee in the way of wisdom; I have led thee in right paths.  12 When thou goest , thy steps shall not be straitened ; and when thou runnest , thou shalt not stumble .  13 Take fast hold of instruction; let her not go : keep her; for she is thy life.  14 Enter not into the path of the wicked, and go not in the way of evil men.  15 Avoid it, pass not by it, turn from it, and pass away .  16 For they sleep not, except they have done mischief ; and their sleep is taken away , unless they cause some to fall .  17 For they eat the bread of wickedness, and drink the wine of violence.  18 But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.  19 The way of the wicked is as darkness: they know not at what they stumble .  20 My son, attend to my words; incline thine ear unto my sayings.  21 Let them not depart from thine eyes; keep them in the midst of thine heart.  22 For they are life unto those that find them, and health to all their flesh.  23 Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life.  24 Put away from thee a froward mouth, and perverse lips put far from thee.  25 Let thine eyes look right on, and let thine eyelids look straight before thee.  26 Ponder the path of thy feet, and let all thy ways be established .  27 Turn not to the right hand nor to the left: remove thy foot from evil.

    My son, attend unto my wisdom, and bow thine ear to my understanding:  2 That thou mayest regard discretion, and that thy lips may keep knowledge.  3 For the lips of a strange woman drop as an honeycomb, and her mouth is smoother than oil:  4 But her end is bitter as wormwood, sharp as a twoedged sword.  5 Her feet go down to death; her steps take hold on hell.  6 Lest thou shouldest ponder the path of life, her ways are moveable , that thou canst not know them.  7 Hear me now therefore, O ye children, and depart not from the words of my mouth.  8 Remove thy way far from her, and come not nigh the door of her house:  9 Lest thou give thine honour unto others, and thy years unto the cruel:  10 Lest strangers be filled with thy wealth; and thy labours be in the house of a stranger;  11 And thou mourn at the last, when thy flesh and thy body are consumed ,  12 And say , How have I hated instruction, and my heart despised reproof;  13 And have not obeyed the voice of my teachers , nor inclined mine ear to them that instructed me!  14 I was almost in all evil in the midst of the congregation and assembly.  15 Drink waters out of thine own cistern, and running waters out of thine own well.  16 Let thy fountains be dispersed abroad, and rivers of waters in the streets.  17 Let them be only thine own, and not strangers ' with thee.  18 Let thy fountain be blessed : and rejoice with the wife of thy youth.  19 Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant roe; let her breasts satisfy thee at all times; and be thou ravished always with her love.  20 And why wilt thou, my son, be ravished with a strange woman , and embrace the bosom of a stranger?  21 For the ways of man are before the eyes of the LORD, and he pondereth all his goings.  22 His own iniquities shall take the wicked himself, and he shall be holden with the cords of his sins.  23 He shall die without instruction; and in the greatness of his folly he shall go astray .

    My son, if thou be surety for thy friend, if thou hast stricken thy hand with a stranger ,  2 Thou art snared with the words of thy mouth, thou art taken with the words of thy mouth.  3 Do this now, my son, and deliver thyself, when thou art come into the hand of thy friend; go , humble thyself, and make sure thy friend.  4 Give not sleep to thine eyes, nor slumber to thine eyelids.  5 Deliver thyself as a roe from the hand of the hunter, and as a bird from the hand of the fowler.  6 Go to the ant, thou sluggard; consider her ways, and be wise :  7 Which having no guide, overseer , or ruler ,  8 Provideth her meat in the summer, and gathereth her food in the harvest.  9 How long wilt thou sleep , O sluggard? when wilt thou arise out of thy sleep?  10 Yet a little sleep, a little slumber, a little folding of the hands to sleep :  11 So shall thy poverty come as one that travelleth , and thy want as an armed man.  12 A naughty person, a wicked man, walketh with a froward mouth.  13 He winketh with his eyes, he speaketh with his feet, he teacheth with his fingers;  14 Frowardness is in his heart, he deviseth mischief continually; he soweth discord  .  15 Therefore shall his calamity come suddenly; suddenly shall he be broken without remedy.  16 These six things doth the LORD hate : yea, seven are an abomination unto him:  17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,  18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,  19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.  20 My son, keep thy father's commandment, and forsake not the law of thy mother:  21 Bind them continually upon thine heart, and tie them about thy neck.  22 When thou goest , it shall lead thee; when thou sleepest , it shall keep thee; and when thou awakest , it shall talk with thee.  23 For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:  24 To keep thee from the evil woman, from the flattery of the tongue of a strange woman.  25 Lust not after her beauty in thine heart; neither let her take thee with her eyelids.  26 For by means of a whorish woman a man is brought to a piece of bread: and the adulteress will hunt for the precious life.  27 Can a man take fire in his bosom, and his clothes not be burned ?  28 Can one go upon hot coals, and his feet not be burned ?  29 So he that goeth in to his neighbour's wife; whosoever toucheth her shall not be innocent .  30 Men do not despise a thief, if he steal to satisfy his soul when he is hungry ;  31 But if he be found , he shall restore sevenfold; he shall give all the substance of his house.  32 But whoso committeth adultery with a woman lacketh understanding: he that doeth it destroyeth his own soul.  33 A wound and dishonour shall he get ; and his reproach shall not be wiped away .  34 For jealousy is the rage of a man: therefore he will not spare in the day of vengeance.  35 He will not regard  any ransom; neither will he rest content , though thou givest many gifts.

    My son, keep my words, and lay up my commandments with thee.  2 Keep my commandments, and live ; and my law as the apple of thine eye.  3 Bind them upon thy fingers, write them upon the table of thine heart.  4 Say unto wisdom, Thou art my sister; and call understanding thy kinswoman:  5 That they may keep thee from the strange woman, from the stranger which flattereth with her words.  6 For at the window of my house I looked through my casement,  7 And beheld among the simple ones, I discerned among the youths, a young man void of understanding,  8 Passing through the street near her corner; and he went the way to her house,  9 In the twilight, in the evening , in the black and dark night:  10 And, behold, there met him a woman with the attire of an harlot , and subtil of heart.  11 (She is loud and stubborn ; her feet abide not in her house:  12 Now is she without, now in the streets, and lieth in wait at every corner.)  13 So she caught him, and kissed him, and with an impudent face said unto him,  14 I have peace offerings with me; this day have I payed my vows.  15 Therefore came I forth to meet thee, diligently to seek thy face, and I have found thee.  16 I have decked my bed with coverings of tapestry, with carved works, with fine linen of Egypt.  17 I have perfumed my bed with myrrh, aloes, and cinnamon.  18 Come , let us take our fill of love until the morning: let us solace ourselves with loves.  19 For the goodman is not at home, he is gone a long journey:  20 He hath taken a bag of money with him, and will come home at the day appointed.  21 With her much fair speech she caused him to yield , with the flattering of her lips she forced him.  22 He goeth after her straightway, as an ox goeth to the slaughter, or as a fool to the correction of the stocks;  23 Till a dart strike through his liver; as a bird hasteth to the snare, and knoweth not that it is for his life.  24 Hearken unto me now therefore, O ye children, and attend to the words of my mouth.  25 Let not thine heart decline to her ways, go not astray in her paths.  26 For she hath cast down many wounded: yea, many strong men have been slain by her.  27 Her house is the way to hell, going down to the chambers of death.

    Doth not wisdom cry ? and understanding put forth her voice?  2 She standeth in the top of high places, by the way in the places of the paths.  3 She crieth at the gates, at the entry of the city, at the coming in at the doors.  4 Unto you, O men, I call ; and my voice is to the sons of man.  5 O ye simple, understand wisdom: and, ye fools, be ye of an understanding heart.  6 Hear ; for I will speak of excellent things; and the opening of my lips shall be right things.  7 For my mouth shall speak truth; and wickedness is an abomination to my lips.  8 All the words of my mouth are in righteousness; there is nothing froward or perverse in them.  9 They are all plain to him that understandeth , and right to them that find knowledge.  10 Receive my instruction, and not silver; and knowledge rather than choice gold.  11 For wisdom is better than rubies; and all the things that may be desired are not to be compared to it.  12 I wisdom dwell with prudence, and find out knowledge of witty inventions.  13 The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate .  14 Counsel is mine, and sound wisdom: I am understanding; I have strength.  15 By me kings reign , and princes decree justice.  16 By me princes rule , and nobles, even all the judges of the earth.  17 I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.  18 Riches and honour are with me; yea, durable riches and righteousness.  19 My fruit is better than gold, yea, than fine gold; and my revenue than choice silver.  20 I lead in the way of righteousness, in the midst of the paths of judgment:  21 That I may cause those that love me to inherit substance; and I will fill their treasures.  22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.  23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.  24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth ; when there were no fountains abounding with water.  25 Before the mountains were settled , before the hills was I brought forth :  26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.  27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:  28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:  29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:  30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;  31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.  32 Now therefore hearken unto me, O ye children: for blessed are they that keep my ways.  33 Hear instruction, and be wise , and refuse it not.  34 Blessed is the man that heareth me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at the posts of my doors.  35 For whoso findeth me findeth life, and shall obtain favour of the LORD.  36 But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.

    Wisdom hath builded her house, she hath hewn out her seven pillars:  2 She hath killed her beasts; she hath mingled her wine; she hath also furnished her table.  3 She hath sent forth her maidens: she crieth upon the highest places of the city,  4 Whoso is simple, let him turn in hither: as for him that wanteth understanding, she saith to him,  5 Come , eat of my bread, and drink of the wine which I have mingled .  6 Forsake the foolish, and live ; and go in the way of understanding.  7 He that reproveth a scorner getteth to himself shame: and he that rebuketh a wicked man getteth himself a blot.  8 Reprove not a scorner , lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee.  9 Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be yet wiser : teach a just man, and he will increase in learning.  10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.  11 For by me thy days shall be multiplied , and the years of thy life shall be increased .  12 If thou be wise , thou shalt be wise for thyself: but if thou scornest , thou alone shalt bear it.  13 A foolish woman is clamorous : she is simple, and knoweth nothing.  14 For she sitteth at the door of her house, on a seat in the high places of the city,  15 To call passengers  who go right on their ways:  16 Whoso is simple, let him turn in hither: and as for him that wanteth understanding, she saith to him,  17 Stolen waters are sweet , and bread eaten in secret is pleasant .  18 But he knoweth not that the dead are there; and that her guests are in the depths of hell.

    A wise son maketh a glad father: but a foolish son is the heaviness of his mother.  2 Treasures of wickedness profit nothing: but righteousness delivereth from death.  3 The LORD will not suffer the soul of the righteous to famish : but he casteth away the substance of the wicked.  4 He becometh poor that dealeth with a slack hand: but the hand of the diligent maketh rich .  5 He that gathereth in summer is a wise son: but he that sleepeth in harvest is a son that causeth shame .  6 Blessings are upon the head of the just: but violence covereth the mouth of the wicked.  7 The memory of the just is blessed: but the name of the wicked shall rot .  8 The wise in heart will receive commandments: but a prating fool shall fall .  9 He that walketh uprightly walketh surely: but he that perverteth his ways shall be known .  10 He that winketh with the eye causeth sorrow: but a prating fool shall fall .  11 The mouth of a righteous man is a well of life: but violence covereth the mouth of the wicked.  12 Hatred stirreth up strifes: but love covereth all sins.  13 In the lips of him that hath understanding wisdom is found : but a rod is for the back of him that is void of understanding.  14 Wise men lay up knowledge: but the mouth of the foolish is near destruction.  15 The rich man's wealth is his strong city: the destruction of the poor is their poverty.  16 The labour of the righteous tendeth to life: the fruit of the wicked to sin.  17 He is in the way of life that keepeth instruction: but he that refuseth reproof erreth .  18 He that hideth hatred with lying lips, and he that uttereth a slander, is a fool.  19 In the multitude of words there wanteth not sin: but he that refraineth his lips is wise .  20 The tongue of the just is as choice silver: the heart of the wicked is little worth.  21 The lips of the righteous feed many: but fools die for want of wisdom.  22 The blessing of the LORD, it maketh rich , and he addeth no sorrow with it.  23 It is as sport to a fool to do mischief: but a man of understanding hath wisdom.  24 The fear of the wicked, it shall come upon him: but the desire of the righteous shall be granted .  25 As the whirlwind passeth , so is the wicked no more: but the righteous is an everlasting foundation.  26 As vinegar to the teeth, and as smoke to the eyes, so is the sluggard to them that send him.  27 The fear of the LORD prolongeth days: but the years of the wicked shall be shortened .  28 The hope of the righteous shall be gladness: but the expectation of the wicked shall perish .  29 The way of the LORD is strength to the upright: but destruction shall be to the workers of iniquity.  30 The righteous shall never be removed : but the wicked shall not inhabit the earth.  31 The mouth of the just bringeth forth wisdom: but the froward tongue shall be cut out .  32 The lips of the righteous know what is acceptable: but the mouth of the wicked speaketh frowardness.

    A false balance is abomination to the LORD: but a just weight is his delight.  2 When pride cometh , then cometh shame: but with the lowly is wisdom.  3 The integrity of the upright shall guide them: but the perverseness of transgressors shall destroy them.  4 Riches profit not in the day of wrath: but righteousness delivereth from death.  5 The righteousness of the perfect shall direct his way: but the wicked shall fall by his own wickedness.  6 The righteousness of the upright shall deliver them: but transgressors shall be taken in their own naughtiness.  7 When a wicked man dieth, his expectation shall perish : and the hope of unjust men perisheth .  8 The righteous is delivered out of trouble, and the wicked cometh in his stead.  9 An hypocrite with his mouth destroyeth his neighbour: but through knowledge shall the just be delivered .  10 When it goeth well with the righteous, the city rejoiceth : and when the wicked perish , there is shouting.  11 By the blessing of the upright the city is exalted : but it is overthrown by the mouth of the wicked.  12 He that is void of wisdom despiseth his neighbour: but a man of understanding holdeth his peace .  13 A talebearer  revealeth secrets: but he that is of a faithful spirit concealeth the matter.  14 Where no counsel is, the people fall : but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.  15 He that is surety for a stranger shall smart  for it: and he that hateth suretiship is sure .  16 A gracious woman retaineth honour: and strong men retain riches.  17 The merciful man doeth good to his own soul: but he that is cruel troubleth his own flesh.  18 The wicked worketh a deceitful work: but to him that soweth righteousness shall be a sure reward.  19 As righteousness tendeth to life: so he that pursueth evil pursueth it to his own death.  20 They that are of a froward heart are abomination to the LORD: but such as are upright in their way are his delight.  21 Though hand join in hand, the wicked shall not be unpunished : but the seed of the righteous shall be delivered .  22 As a jewel of gold in a swine's snout, so is a fair woman which is without discretion.  23 The desire of the righteous is only good: but the expectation of the wicked is wrath.  24 There is that scattereth , and yet increaseth ; and there is that withholdeth more than is meet, but it tendeth to poverty.  25 The liberal soul shall be made fat : and he that watereth shall be watered also himself.  26 He that withholdeth corn, the people shall curse him: but blessing shall be upon the head of him that selleth it.  27 He that diligently seeketh good procureth favour: but he that seeketh mischief, it shall come unto him.  28 He that trusteth in his riches shall fall : but the righteous shall flourish as a branch.  29 He that troubleth his own house shall inherit the wind: and the fool shall be servant to the wise of heart.  30 The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that winneth souls is wise.  31 Behold, the righteous shall be recompensed in the earth: much more the wicked and the sinner.

    Whoso loveth instruction loveth knowledge: but he that hateth reproof is brutish.  2 A good man obtaineth favour of the LORD: but a man of wicked devices will he condemn .  3 A man shall not be established by wickedness: but the root of the righteous shall not be moved .  4 A virtuous woman is a crown to her husband: but she that maketh ashamed is as rottenness in his bones.  5 The thoughts of the righteous are right: but the counsels of the wicked are deceit.  6 The words of the wicked are to lie in wait for blood: but the mouth of the upright shall deliver them.  7 The wicked are overthrown , and are not: but the house of the righteous shall stand .  8 A man shall be commended according to his wisdom: but he that is of a perverse heart shall be despised.  9 He that is despised , and hath a servant, is better than he that honoureth himself, and lacketh bread.  10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.  11 He that tilleth his land shall be satisfied with bread: but he that followeth vain persons is void of understanding.  12 The wicked desireth the net of evil men: but the root of the righteous yieldeth fruit.  13 The wicked is snared by the transgression of his lips: but the just shall come out of trouble.  14 A man shall be satisfied with good by the fruit of his mouth: and the recompence of a man's hands shall be rendered unto him.  15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.  16 A fool's wrath is presently known : but a prudent man covereth shame.  17 He that speaketh truth sheweth forth righteousness: but a false witness deceit.  18 There is that speaketh like the piercings of a sword: but the tongue of the wise is health.  19 The lip of truth shall be established for ever: but a lying tongue is but for a moment .  20 Deceit is in the heart of them that imagine evil: but to the counsellors of peace is joy.  21 There shall no evil happen to the just: but the wicked shall be filled with mischief.  22 Lying lips are abomination to the LORD: but they that deal truly are his delight.  23 A prudent man concealeth knowledge: but the heart of fools proclaimeth foolishness.  24 The hand of the diligent shall bear rule : but the slothful shall be under tribute.  25 Heaviness in the heart of man maketh it stoop : but a good word maketh it glad .  26 The righteous is more excellent than his neighbour: but the way of the wicked seduceth them.  27 The slothful man roasteth not that which he took in hunting: but the substance of a diligent man is precious.  28 In the way of righteousness is life; and in the pathway thereof there is no death.

    A wise son heareth his father's instruction: but a scorner heareth not rebuke.  2 A man shall eat good by the fruit of his mouth: but the soul of the transgressors shall eat violence.  3 He that keepeth his mouth keepeth his life: but he that openeth wide his lips shall have destruction.  4 The soul of the sluggard desireth , and hath nothing: but the soul of the diligent shall be made fat .  5 A righteous man hateth lying  : but a wicked man is loathsome , and cometh to shame .  6 Righteousness keepeth him that is upright in the way: but wickedness overthroweth the sinner.  7 There is that maketh himself rich , yet hath nothing: there is that maketh himself poor , yet hath great riches.  8 The ransom of a man's life are his riches: but the poor heareth not rebuke.  9 The light of the righteous rejoiceth : but the lamp of the wicked shall be put out .  10 Only by pride cometh contention: but with the well advised is wisdom.  11 Wealth gotten by vanity shall be diminished : but he that gathereth by labour shall increase .  12 Hope deferred maketh the heart sick : but when the desire cometh , it is a tree of life.  13 Whoso despiseth the word shall be destroyed : but he that feareth the commandment shall be rewarded .  14 The law of the wise is a fountain of life, to depart from the snares of death.  15 Good understanding giveth favour: but the way of transgressors is hard.  16 Every prudent man dealeth with knowledge: but a fool layeth open his folly.  17 A wicked messenger falleth into mischief: but a faithful ambassador is health.  18 Poverty and shame shall be to him that refuseth instruction: but he that regardeth reproof shall be honoured .  19 The desire accomplished is sweet to the soul: but it is abomination to fools to depart from evil.  20 He that walketh with wise men shall be wise : but a companion of fools shall be destroyed .  21 Evil pursueth sinners: but to the righteous good shall be repayed .  22 A good man leaveth an inheritance to his children's children: and the wealth of the sinner is laid up for the just.  23 Much food is in the tillage of the poor  : but there is that is destroyed for want of judgment.  24 He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes .  25 The righteous eateth to the satisfying of his soul: but the belly of the wicked shall want .

    Every wise woman buildeth her house: but the foolish plucketh it down with her hands.  2 He that walketh in his uprightness feareth the LORD: but he that is perverse in his ways despiseth him.  3 In the mouth of the foolish is a rod of pride: but the lips of the wise shall preserve them.  4 Where no oxen are, the crib is clean: but much increase is by the strength of the ox.  5 A faithful witness will not lie: but a false witness will utter lies .  6 A scorner seeketh wisdom, and findeth it not: but knowledge is easy unto him that understandeth .  7 Go from the presence of a foolish man, when thou perceivest not in him the lips of knowledge.  8 The wisdom of the prudent is to understand his way: but the folly of fools is deceit.  9 Fools make a mock at sin: but among the righteous there is favour.  10 The heart knoweth his own bitterness; and a stranger doth not intermeddle with his joy.  11 The house of the wicked shall be overthrown : but the tabernacle of the upright shall flourish .  12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.  13 Even in laughter the heart is sorrowful ; and the end of that mirth is heaviness.  14 The backslider in heart shall be filled with his own ways: and a good man shall be satisfied from himself.  15 The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going.  16 A wise man feareth, and departeth from evil: but the fool rageth , and is confident .  17 He that is soon angry dealeth foolishly: and a man of wicked devices is hated .  18 The simple inherit folly: but the prudent are crowned with knowledge.  19 The evil bow before the good; and the wicked at the gates of the righteous.  20 The poor is hated even of his own neighbour: but the rich hath many friends .  21 He that despiseth his neighbour sinneth : but he that hath mercy on the poor  , happy is he.  22 Do they not err that devise evil? but mercy and truth shall be to them that devise good.  23 In all labour there is profit: but the talk of the lips tendeth only to penury.  24 The crown of the wise is their riches: but the foolishness of fools is folly.  25 A true witness delivereth souls: but a deceitful witness speaketh lies.  26 In the fear of the LORD is strong confidence: and his children shall have a place of refuge.  27 The fear of the LORD is a fountain of life, to depart from the snares of death.  28 In the multitude of people is the king's honour: but in the want of people is the destruction of the prince.  29 He that is slow to wrath is of great understanding: but he that is hasty of spirit exalteth folly.  30 A sound heart is the life of the flesh: but envy the rottenness of the bones.  31 He that oppresseth the poor reproacheth his Maker : but he that honoureth him hath mercy on the poor.  32 The wicked is driven away in his wickedness: but the righteous hath hope in his death.  33 Wisdom resteth in the heart of him that hath understanding : but that which is in the midst of fools is made known .  34 Righteousness exalteth a nation: but sin is a reproach to any people.  35 The king's favour is toward a wise servant: but his wrath is against him that causeth shame .

    A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger.  2 The tongue of the wise useth knowledge aright : but the mouth of fools poureth out foolishness.  3 The eyes of the LORD are in every place, beholding the evil and the good.  4 A wholesome tongue is a tree of life: but perverseness therein is a breach in the spirit.  5 A fool despiseth his father's instruction: but he that regardeth reproof is prudent .  6 In the house of the righteous is much treasure: but in the revenues of the wicked is trouble .  7 The lips of the wise disperse knowledge: but the heart of the foolish doeth not so.  8 The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to the LORD: but the prayer of the upright is his delight.  9 The way of the wicked is an abomination unto the LORD: but he loveth him that followeth after righteousness.  10 Correction is grievous unto him that forsaketh the way: and he that hateth reproof shall die .  11 Hell and destruction are before the LORD: how much more then the hearts of the children of men?  12 A scorner loveth not one that reproveth him: neither will he go unto the wise.  13 A merry heart maketh a cheerful countenance: but by sorrow of the heart the spirit is broken.  14 The heart of him that hath understanding seeketh knowledge: but the mouth  of fools feedeth on foolishness.  15 All the days of the afflicted are evil: but he that is of a merry heart hath a continual feast.  16 Better is little with the fear of the LORD than great treasure and trouble therewith.  17 Better is a dinner of herbs where love is, than a stalled ox and hatred therewith.  18 A wrathful man stirreth up strife: but he that is slow to anger appeaseth strife.  19 The way of the slothful man is as an hedge of thorns: but the way of the righteous is made plain .  20 A wise son maketh a glad father: but a foolish man despiseth his mother.  21 Folly is joy to him that is destitute of wisdom: but a man of understanding walketh uprightly .  22 Without counsel purposes are disappointed : but in the multitude of counsellors they are established .  23 A man hath joy by the answer of his mouth: and a word spoken in due season, how good is it!  24 The way of life is above to the wise , that he may depart from hell beneath.  25 The LORD will destroy the house of the proud: but he will establish the border of the widow.  26 The thoughts of the wicked are an abomination to the LORD: but the words of the pure are pleasant words.  27 He that is greedy of gain troubleth his own house; but he that hateth gifts shall live .  28 The heart of the righteous studieth to answer : but the mouth of the wicked poureth out evil things.  29 The LORD is far from the wicked: but he heareth the prayer of the righteous.  30 The light of the eyes rejoiceth the heart: and a good report maketh the bones fat .  31 The ear that heareth the reproof of life abideth among the wise.  32 He that refuseth instruction despiseth his own soul: but he that heareth reproof getteth understanding.  33 The fear of the LORD is the instruction of wisdom; and before honour is humility.

    The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.  2 All the ways of a man are clean in his own eyes; but the LORD weigheth the spirits.  3 Commit thy works unto the LORD, and thy thoughts shall be established .  4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.  5 Every one that is proud in heart is an abomination to the LORD: though hand join in hand, he shall not be unpunished .  6 By mercy and truth iniquity is purged : and by the fear of the LORD men depart from evil.  7 When a man's ways please the LORD, he maketh even his enemies to be at peace with him.  8 Better is a little with righteousness than great revenues without right.  9 A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps.  10 A divine sentence is in the lips of the king: his mouth transgresseth not in judgment.  11 A just weight and balance are the LORD'S: all the weights of the bag are his work.  12 It is an abomination to kings to commit wickedness: for the throne is established by righteousness.  13 Righteous lips are the delight of kings; and they love him that speaketh right.  14 The wrath of a king is as messengers of death: but a wise man will pacify it.  15 In the light of the king's countenance is life; and his favour is as a cloud of the latter rain.  16 How much better is it to get wisdom than gold! and to get understanding rather to be chosen than silver!  17 The highway of the upright is to depart from evil: he that keepeth his way preserveth his soul.  18 Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.  19 Better it is to be of an humble spirit with the lowly  , than to divide the spoil with the proud.  20 He that handleth a matter wisely shall find good: and whoso trusteth in the LORD, happy is he.  21 The wise in heart shall be called prudent : and the sweetness of the lips increaseth learning.  22 Understanding is a wellspring of life unto him that hath it: but the instruction of fools is folly.  23 The heart of the wise teacheth his mouth, and addeth learning to his lips.  24 Pleasant words are as an honeycomb , sweet to the soul, and health to the bones.  25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.  26 He that laboureth laboureth for himself; for his mouth craveth it of him.  27 An ungodly man diggeth up evil: and in his lips there is as a burning fire.  28 A froward man soweth strife: and a whisperer separateth chief friends.  29 A violent man enticeth his neighbour, and leadeth him into the way that is not good.  30 He shutteth his eyes to devise froward things: moving his lips he bringeth evil to pass .  31 The hoary head is a crown of glory, if it be found in the way of righteousness.  32 He that is slow to anger is better than the mighty; and he that ruleth his spirit than he that taketh a city.  33 The lot is cast into the lap; but the whole disposing thereof is of the LORD.

    Better is a dry morsel, and quietness therewith, than an house full of sacrifices with strife.  2 A wise servant shall have rule over a son that causeth shame , and shall have part of the inheritance among the brethren.  3 The fining pot is for silver, and the furnace for gold: but the LORD trieth the hearts.  4 A wicked doer giveth heed to false lips; and a liar giveth ear to a naughty tongue.  5 Whoso mocketh the poor reproacheth his Maker : and he that is glad at calamities shall not be unpunished .  6 Children's children are the crown of old men; and the glory of children are their fathers.  7 Excellent speech becometh not a fool: much less do lying lips a prince.  8 A gift is as a precious stone in the eyes of him that hath it: whithersoever it turneth , it prospereth .  9 He that covereth a transgression seeketh love; but he that repeateth a matter separateth very friends.  10 A reproof entereth more into a wise man than an hundred stripes into a fool.  11 An evil man seeketh only rebellion: therefore a cruel messenger shall be sent against him.  12 Let a bear robbed of her whelps meet a man, rather than a fool in his folly.  13 Whoso rewardeth evil for good, evil shall not depart from his house.  14 The beginning of strife is as when one letteth out water: therefore leave off contention, before it be meddled with.  15 He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD.  16 Wherefore is there a price in the hand of a fool to get wisdom, seeing he hath no heart to it?  17 A friend loveth at all times, and a brother is born for adversity.  18 A man void of understanding striketh hands, and becometh surety in the presence of his friend.  19 He loveth transgression that loveth strife: and he that exalteth his gate seeketh destruction.  20 He that hath a froward heart findeth no good: and he that hath a perverse tongue falleth into mischief.  21 He that begetteth a fool doeth it to his sorrow: and the father of a fool hath no joy .  22 A merry heart doeth good like a medicine: but a broken spirit drieth the bones.  23 A wicked man taketh a gift out of the bosom to pervert the ways of judgment.  24 Wisdom is before him that hath understanding  ; but the eyes of a fool are in the ends of the earth.  25 A foolish son is a grief to his father, and bitterness to her that bare him.  26 Also to punish the just is not good, nor to strike princes for equity.  27 He that hath knowledge spareth his words: and a man of understanding is of an excellent  spirit.  28 Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace , is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding .

    Through desire a man, having separated himself, seeketh and intermeddleth with all wisdom.  2 A fool hath no delight in understanding, but that his heart may discover itself.  3 When the wicked cometh , then cometh also contempt, and with ignominy reproach.  4 The words of a man's mouth are as deep waters, and the wellspring of wisdom as a flowing brook.  5 It is not good to accept the person of the wicked, to overthrow the righteous in judgment.  6 A fool's lips enter into contention, and his mouth calleth for strokes.  7 A fool's mouth is his destruction, and his lips are the snare of his soul.  8 The words of a talebearer are as wounds , and they go down into the innermost parts of the belly.  9 He also that is slothful in his work is brother to him that is a great waster .  10 The name of the LORD is a strong tower: the righteous runneth into it, and is safe .  11 The rich man's wealth is his strong city, and as an high wall in his own conceit.  12 Before destruction the heart of man is haughty , and before honour is humility.  13 He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.  14 The spirit of a man will sustain his infirmity; but a wounded spirit who can bear ?  15 The heart of the prudent getteth knowledge; and the ear of the wise seeketh knowledge.  16 A man's gift maketh room for him, and bringeth him before great men.  17 He that is first in his own cause seemeth just; but his neighbour cometh and searcheth him.  18 The lot causeth contentions to cease , and parteth between the mighty.  19 A brother offended is harder to be won than a strong city: and their contentions  are like the bars of a castle.  20 A man's belly shall be satisfied with the fruit of his mouth; and with the increase of his lips shall he be filled .  21 Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof.  22 Whoso findeth a wife findeth a good thing, and obtaineth favour of the LORD.  23 The poor useth intreaties; but the rich answereth roughly.  24 A man that hath friends must shew himself friendly : and there is a friend that sticketh closer than a brother.

    Better is the poor that walketh in his integrity, than he that is perverse in his lips, and is a fool.  2 Also, that the soul be without knowledge, it is not good; and he that hasteth with his feet sinneth .  3 The foolishness of man perverteth his way: and his heart fretteth against the LORD.  4 Wealth maketh many friends; but the poor is separated from his neighbour.  5 A false witness shall not be unpunished , and he that speaketh lies shall not escape .  6 Many will intreat the favour of the prince: and every man is a friend to him that giveth gifts.  7 All the brethren of the poor do hate him: how much more do his friends go far from him? he pursueth them with words, yet they are wanting to him.  8 He that getteth wisdom loveth his own soul: he that keepeth understanding shall find good.  9 A false witness shall not be unpunished , and he that speaketh lies shall perish .  10 Delight is not seemly for a fool; much less for a servant to have rule over princes.  11 The discretion of a man deferreth his anger; and it is his glory to pass over a transgression.  12 The king's wrath is as the roaring of a lion; but his favour is as dew upon the grass.  13 A foolish son is the calamity of his father: and the contentions of a wife are a continual dropping.  14 House and riches are the inheritance of fathers: and a prudent wife is from the LORD.  15 Slothfulness casteth into a deep sleep; and an idle soul shall suffer hunger .  16 He that keepeth the commandment keepeth his own soul; but he that despiseth his ways shall die .  17 He that hath pity upon the poor lendeth unto the LORD; and that which he hath given will he pay him again .  18 Chasten thy son while there is hope, and let not thy soul spare for his crying .  19 A man of great wrath shall suffer punishment: for if thou deliver him, yet thou must do it again .  20 Hear counsel, and receive instruction, that thou mayest be wise in thy latter end.  21 There are many devices in a man's heart; nevertheless the counsel of the LORD, that shall stand .  22 The desire of a man is his kindness: and a poor man is better than a liar.  23 The fear of the LORD tendeth to life: and he that hath it shall abide satisfied; he shall not be visited with evil.  24 A slothful man hideth his hand in his bosom, and will not so much as bring it to his mouth again .  25 Smite a scorner , and the simple will beware : and reprove one that hath understanding , and he will understand knowledge.  26 He that wasteth his father, and chaseth away his mother, is a son that causeth shame , and bringeth reproach .  27 Cease , my son, to hear the instruction that causeth to err from the words of knowledge.  28 An ungodly witness scorneth judgment: and the mouth of the wicked devoureth iniquity.  29 Judgments are prepared for scorners , and stripes for the back of fools.

    Last edited by orthodoxymoron on Thu Nov 19, 2015 2:13 pm; edited 1 time in total

    Posts : 7824
    Join date : 2010-09-28

    Re: The United States of the Solar System: A.D. 2133 (Book One)

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Sat Mar 28, 2015 2:26 pm

    B.B.Baghor wrote: ortho's words: "I wish to move-on to Clean Sheet of Stone Solutions -- but History must be properly handled -- so as to provide a Sustainable Foundation for New Theologies and Philosophies. For me -- studying theology is sort of like the guy who hits himself over the head with a hammer -- because it feels so good when he quits!!"

    Some parts of your posts, like the last sentence in this one above, could well fit in the Humour thread, ortho, You keep hitting the nail on its head, it seems, in your view on studying theology and other statements you make about how you manage and maintain your thread. If I've understood your explanations in your thread, ortho, your intention is to invite members and visitors here and to discuss its content and find understanding and clarity due to that.

    Thank-you B.B. All of this involves a rarely achieved understanding of the world, solar system, and universe -- which I suspect "Top-People" understand very clearly. This is NOT a touchy-feely support-group. This is a royal-model walk on the wild-side!! It involves a lot of experience and experiences -- along with material provided by others. What people (and other than people) do with this is up to them.

    I keep coming back at my trying to understand, what it is that you're looking for in your thread. I'm having a go at it and move forward, by groping and trying, no hunt for an answer as if the end of this discussion should be near. The question mark may remain in it, if you get what I mean. To me it looks like this, that you show up in your thread in two different ways (or roles, deliberately chosen?)

    I guess I'm attempting to give substance to my suppositions. This discussion might never end. This is about Revelation and Mystery. A "Space-Cowboy" Individual of Interest spoke to me about "Mystery" in an approving manner. They also spoke about the "good-side" of Anna in "V" in an approving manner. They spoke to me about pre-cognition and remote-viewing (with military-applications). They spoke to me about who should "really run the world". They spoke to me about how UFO's work (something about gravity and always falling). They spoke of wishing to construct a UFO. They spoke of working with the Pentagon. They spoke to me about Orion. They reminded me of the "Cowboy" in Mulholland Drive.

    At times you're the observer looking at its content from without, which seems to be the intention of the initial plan, with your US of the SS-Final Cut. At other times you're the person actively present in your thread, sharing your observations and feelings on how you see yourself doing and the probable futility of it in the eyes of others, as you seem to perceive may be the case.

    I pretend to be someone I'm not -- to create a Science-Fictional Psycho-Drama -- to make points which could not otherwise be made. This mostly seems to have fallen on "deaf-ears". It's probably mostly a personal-exercise which I am sharing with a few alphabet-interns. I wonder how many of them have gone nuts? I'm actually being somewhat serious.

    This seems to come from within you, ortho, as if it's felt that way, real time. If this is what you call "modelling", I can't say I understand what you mean by that and what it's purpose is. And besides, I'm not sure if that's what it is, ortho. Is it with the intention to share your large amount of documentation and views, to see if they're appreciated as subjects for a discussion? Without the need to find understanding, for this is already material that is understood by you?

    It sometimes seems as if I am "Channeling-Myself". I sometimes imagine myself in important historical, contemporary, and prophetic roles -- so as to provide myself and others with rare-insights into the "Way Things Might've Been or Might Be" as the "Saddest Words That Fingers Can Type". I've actually found some remarkable evidences that I might be some sort of a "Significant Historical Soul" -- but I have no idea whether that would be a good-thing, or not. Some of my questions are rhetorical -- but most are inquisitive. I keep hoping that the right-individuals will systematically and exhaustively answer my many questions (here or in some other context).

    Or is your need of understanding, with the help of discussions, that you welcome here? I risk wrapping conclusions around my questioning here, due to a groping for my understanding. Forgive me if that's perceived that way, by you, ortho. This is the thing, you see, we always have to deal with being at risk in misunderstanding, for the difficulty of only exchanging views in this virtual way. I can imagine there must be some sort of strong drive in you, connected to an urge to find a way to a life with purpose. To me, it seems to be like this, that you feel the clarity for finding it is present outside of you.

    I doubt that I will find a "Purposeful-Life" in "Real-Life" so I am forced to construct a "Significant-Existence" in Cyberspace as some sort of a "Cyberspace-Cowboy". I am often forced to bring discussions from other threads into this thread -- so as to artificially manufacture conversation within this particular thread. I often seem to be "shunned" on this site -- and in "real-life".

    To me, at times, there seems to have happened a reversal of priorities, in the way you handle your thread, as if the exploring and research that you do, have moved to the first position, as a goal in itself. For I see you asking questions, asking questions about the asked questions, ignoring investigations by others sometimes due to the insistent questioning popping up in you. At times, reading parts of your posts, I wonder if there are answers that will satisfy you, if they're searched for.

    The Rare Responses by Others are often catalysts for further questioning and speculation. Most of the material on this thread is the work of others (ignored or otherwise). Responses are sometimes off-topic -- and I seek to stay on track -- which might appear to be ignoring various responders. Thinking deeply about the words of others does not always produce direct-responses from me. I'm sometimes a bit like a psychiatrist or psychologist asking leading questions. Jesus asked a lot of questions. Consider reading Jesus: An Interview Across Time by Dr. Andrew G. Hodges.

    I truly wonder what will happen if you at any given moment will find an answer or give up this quest, quieting that mind of yours. I don't mean to suggest that you should stop posting, ortho, I simply wonder in what way your arrival at the end of your quest, feeling that you've found the answers you need, will affect you. Do you expect to feel you will miss the ponder and wonder, the multifaceted way of reflecting on topics that you express in your thread here in the Mists? It's a genuine question, I hope you will perceive it that way Cheerful

    The quest will probably become so dark and controversial that I will be forced to not talk about it publicly or privately. This thing might honestly end in tragedy and great sorrow. I'm NOT expecting a happy-ending.

    Wine is a mocker , strong drink is raging : and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise . 2 The fear of a king is as the roaring of a lion: whoso provoketh him to anger sinneth against his own soul. 3 It is an honour for a man to cease from strife: but every fool will be meddling . 4 The sluggard will not plow by reason of the cold; therefore shall he beg in harvest, and have nothing. 5 Counsel in the heart of man is like deep water; but a man of understanding will draw it out . 6 Most men will proclaim every one his own goodness: but a faithful man who can find ? 7 The just man walketh in his integrity: his children are blessed after him. 8 A king that sitteth in the throne of judgment scattereth away all evil with his eyes. 9 Who can say , I have made my heart clean , I am pure from my sin? 10 Divers weights , and divers measures , both of them are alike abomination to the LORD. 11 Even a child is known by his doings, whether his work be pure, and whether it be right. 12 The hearing ear, and the seeing eye, the LORD hath made even both of them. 13 Love not sleep, lest thou come to poverty ; open thine eyes, and thou shalt be satisfied with bread. 14 It is naught, it is naught, saith the buyer : but when he is gone his way, then he boasteth . 15 There is gold, and a multitude of rubies: but the lips of knowledge are a precious jewel. 16 Take his garment that is surety for a stranger : and take a pledge of him for a strange woman. 17 Bread of deceit is sweet to a man; but afterwards his mouth shall be filled with gravel. 18 Every purpose is established by counsel: and with good advice make war. 19 He that goeth about as a talebearer revealeth secrets: therefore meddle not with him that flattereth with his lips. 20 Whoso curseth his father or his mother, his lamp shall be put out in obscure darkness. 21 An inheritance may be gotten hastily at the beginning; but the end thereof shall not be blessed . 22 Say not thou, I will recompense evil; but wait on the LORD, and he shall save thee. 23 Divers weights are an abomination unto the LORD; and a false balance is not good. 24 Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way? 25 It is a snare to the man who devoureth that which is holy, and after vows to make enquiry . 26 A wise king scattereth the wicked, and bringeth the wheel over them. 27 The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD, searching all the inward parts of the belly. 28 Mercy and truth preserve the king: and his throne is upholden by mercy. 29 The glory of young men is their strength: and the beauty of old men is the gray head. 30 The blueness of a wound cleanseth away evil: so do stripes the inward parts of the belly.

    The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will . 2 Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts. 3 To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice. 4 An high look, and a proud heart, and the plowing of the wicked, is sin. 5 The thoughts of the diligent tend only to plenteousness; but of every one that is hasty only to want. 6 The getting of treasures by a lying tongue is a vanity tossed to and fro of them that seek death. 7 The robbery of the wicked shall destroy them; because they refuse to do judgment. 8 The way of man is froward and strange: but as for the pure, his work is right. 9 It is better to dwell in a corner of the housetop, than with a brawling woman in a wide house. 10 The soul of the wicked desireth evil: his neighbour findeth no favour in his eyes. 11 When the scorner is punished , the simple is made wise : and when the wise is instructed , he receiveth knowledge. 12 The righteous man wisely considereth the house of the wicked: but God overthroweth the wicked for their wickedness. 13 Whoso stoppeth his ears at the cry of the poor, he also shall cry himself, but shall not be heard . 14 A gift in secret pacifieth anger: and a reward in the bosom strong wrath. 15 It is joy to the just to do judgment: but destruction shall be to the workers of iniquity. 16 The man that wandereth out of the way of understanding shall remain in the congregation of the dead. 17 He that loveth pleasure shall be a poor man: he that loveth wine and oil shall not be rich . 18 The wicked shall be a ransom for the righteous, and the transgressor for the upright. 19 It is better to dwell in the wilderness , than with a contentious and an angry woman. 20 There is treasure to be desired and oil in the dwelling of the wise; but a foolish man spendeth it up . 21 He that followeth after righteousness and mercy findeth life, righteousness, and honour. 22 A wise man scaleth the city of the mighty, and casteth down the strength of the confidence thereof. 23 Whoso keepeth his mouth and his tongue keepeth his soul from troubles. 24 Proud and haughty scorner is his name, who dealeth in proud wrath. 25 The desire of the slothful killeth him; for his hands refuse to labour . 26 He coveteth greedily all the day long: but the righteous giveth and spareth not. 27 The sacrifice of the wicked is abomination: how much more, when he bringeth it with a wicked mind? 28 A false witness shall perish : but the man that heareth speaketh constantly. 29 A wicked man hardeneth his face: but as for the upright, he directeth his way. 30 There is no wisdom nor understanding nor counsel against the LORD. 31 The horse is prepared against the day of battle: but safety is of the LORD.

    A good name is rather to be chosen than great riches, and loving favour rather than silver and gold. 2 The rich and poor meet together : the LORD is the maker of them all. 3 A prudent man foreseeth the evil, and hideth himself: but the simple pass on , and are punished . 4 By humility and the fear of the LORD are riches, and honour, and life. 5 Thorns and snares are in the way of the froward: he that doth keep his soul shall be far from them. 6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old , he will not depart from it. 7 The rich ruleth over the poor , and the borrower is servant to the lender . 8 He that soweth iniquity shall reap vanity: and the rod of his anger shall fail . 9 He that hath a bountiful eye shall be blessed ; for he giveth of his bread to the poor. 10 Cast out the scorner , and contention shall go out ; yea, strife and reproach shall cease . 11 He that loveth pureness of heart, for the grace of his lips the king shall be his friend. 12 The eyes of the LORD preserve knowledge, and he overthroweth the words of the transgressor . 13 The slothful man saith , There is a lion without, I shall be slain in the streets. 14 The mouth of strange women is a deep pit: he that is abhorred of the LORD shall fall therein. 15 Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him. 16 He that oppresseth the poor to increase his riches, and he that giveth to the rich, shall surely come to want. 17 Bow down thine ear, and hear the words of the wise, and apply thine heart unto my knowledge. 18 For it is a pleasant thing if thou keep them within thee; they shall withal be fitted in thy lips. 19 That thy trust may be in the LORD, I have made known to thee this day, even to thee. 20 Have not I written to thee excellent things in counsels and knowledge, 21 That I might make thee know the certainty of the words of truth; that thou mightest answer the words of truth to them that send unto thee? 22 Rob not the poor, because he is poor: neither oppress the afflicted in the gate: 23 For the LORD will plead their cause, and spoil the soul of those that spoiled them. 24 Make no friendship with an angry man; and with a furious man thou shalt not go : 25 Lest thou learn his ways, and get a snare to thy soul. 26 Be not thou one of them that strike hands, or of them that are sureties for debts. 27 If thou hast nothing to pay , why should he take away thy bed from under thee? 28 Remove not the ancient landmark, which thy fathers have set . 29 Seest thou a man diligent in his business? he shall stand before kings; he shall not stand before mean men.

    When thou sittest to eat with a ruler , consider diligently what is before thee: 2 And put a knife to thy throat, if thou be a man given to appetite. 3 Be not desirous of his dainties: for they are deceitful meat. 4 Labour not to be rich : cease from thine own wisdom. 5 Wilt thou set thine eyes upon that which is not? for riches certainly make themselves wings; they fly away as an eagle toward heaven. 6 Eat thou not the bread of him that hath an evil eye, neither desire thou his dainty meats: 7 For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: Eat and drink , saith he to thee; but his heart is not with thee. 8 The morsel which thou hast eaten shalt thou vomit up , and lose thy sweet words. 9 Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words. 10 Remove not the old landmark; and enter not into the fields of the fatherless: 11 For their redeemer is mighty; he shall plead their cause with thee. 12 Apply thine heart unto instruction, and thine ears to the words of knowledge. 13 Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die . 14 Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell. 15 My son, if thine heart be wise , my heart shall rejoice , even mine. 16 Yea, my reins shall rejoice , when thy lips speak right things. 17 Let not thine heart envy sinners: but be thou in the fear of the LORD all the day long. 18 For surely there is an end; and thine expectation shall not be cut off . 19 Hear thou, my son, and be wise , and guide thine heart in the way. 20 Be not among winebibbers ; among riotous eaters of flesh: 21 For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty : and drowsiness shall clothe a man with rags. 22 Hearken unto thy father that begat thee, and despise not thy mother when she is old . 23 Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding. 24 The father of the righteous shall greatly rejoice : and he that begetteth a wise child shall have joy of him. 25 Thy father and thy mother shall be glad , and she that bare thee shall rejoice . 26 My son, give me thine heart, and let thine eyes observe my ways. 27 For a whore is a deep ditch; and a strange woman is a narrow pit. 28 She also lieth in wait as for a prey, and increaseth the transgressors among men. 29 Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions ? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes? 30 They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine. 31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red , when it giveth his colour in the cup , when it moveth itself aright. 32 At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder. 33 Thine eyes shall behold strange women , and thine heart shall utter perverse things. 34 Yea, thou shalt be as he that lieth down in the midst of the sea, or as he that lieth upon the top of a mast. 35 They have stricken me, shalt thou say, and I was not sick ; they have beaten me, and I felt it not: when shall I awake ? I will seek it yet again.

    Be not thou envious against evil men, neither desire to be with them. 2 For their heart studieth destruction, and their lips talk of mischief. 3 Through wisdom is an house builded ; and by understanding it is established : 4 And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches. 5 A wise man is strong; yea, a man of knowledge increaseth strength. 6 For by wise counsel thou shalt make thy war: and in multitude of counsellors there is safety. 7 Wisdom is too high for a fool: he openeth not his mouth in the gate. 8 He that deviseth to do evil shall be called a mischievous person. 9 The thought of foolishness is sin: and the scorner is an abomination to men. 10 If thou faint in the day of adversity, thy strength is small. 11 If thou forbear to deliver them that are drawn unto death, and those that are ready to be slain; 12 If thou sayest , Behold, we knew it not; doth not he that pondereth the heart consider it? and he that keepeth thy soul, doth not he know it? and shall not he render to every man according to his works? 13 My son, eat thou honey, because it is good; and the honeycomb, which is sweet to thy taste: 14 So shall the knowledge of wisdom be unto thy soul: when thou hast found it, then there shall be a reward, and thy expectation shall not be cut off . 15 Lay not wait , O wicked man, against the dwelling of the righteous; spoil not his resting place: 16 For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again : but the wicked shall fall into mischief. 17 Rejoice not when thine enemy falleth , and let not thine heart be glad when he stumbleth : 18 Lest the LORD see it, and it displease him, and he turn away his wrath from him. 19 Fret not thyself because of evil men, neither be thou envious at the wicked; 20 For there shall be no reward to the evil man; the candle of the wicked shall be put out . 21 My son, fear thou the LORD and the king: and meddle not with them that are given to change : 22 For their calamity shall rise suddenly; and who knoweth the ruin of them both? 23 These things also belong to the wise. It is not good to have respect of persons in judgment. 24 He that saith unto the wicked, Thou art righteous; him shall the people curse , nations shall abhor him: 25 But to them that rebuke him shall be delight , and a good blessing shall come upon them. 26 Every man shall kiss his lips that giveth a right answer. 27 Prepare thy work without, and make it fit for thyself in the field; and afterwards build thine house. 28 Be not a witness against thy neighbour without cause; and deceive not with thy lips. 29 Say not, I will do so to him as he hath done to me: I will render to the man according to his work. 30 I went by the field of the slothful , and by the vineyard of the man void of understanding; 31 And, lo, it was all grown over with thorns, and nettles had covered the face thereof, and the stone wall thereof was broken down . 32 Then I saw , and considered it well : I looked upon it, and received instruction. 33 Yet a little sleep, a little slumber, a little folding of the hands to sleep : 34 So shall thy poverty come as one that travelleth ; and thy want as an armed man.

    These are also proverbs of Solomon, which the men of Hezekiah king of Judah copied out . 2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter. 3 The heaven for height, and the earth for depth, and the heart of kings is unsearchable. 4 Take away the dross from the silver, and there shall come forth a vessel for the finer . 5 Take away the wicked from before the king, and his throne shall be established in righteousness. 6 Put not forth thyself in the presence of the king, and stand not in the place of great men: 7 For better it is that it be said unto thee, Come up hither; than that thou shouldest be put lower in the presence of the prince whom thine eyes have seen . 8 Go not forth hastily to strive , lest thou know not what to do in the end thereof, when thy neighbour hath put thee to shame . 9 Debate thy cause with thy neighbour himself; and discover not a secret to another: 10 Lest he that heareth it put thee to shame , and thine infamy turn not away . 11 A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver. 12 As an earring of gold, and an ornament of fine gold, so is a wise reprover upon an obedient ear. 13 As the cold of snow in the time of harvest, so is a faithful messenger to them that send him: for he refresheth the soul of his masters. 14 Whoso boasteth himself of a false gift is like clouds and wind without rain. 15 By long forbearing is a prince persuaded , and a soft tongue breaketh the bone. 16 Hast thou found honey? eat so much as is sufficient for thee, lest thou be filled therewith, and vomit it. 17 Withdraw thy foot from thy neighbour's house; lest he be weary of thee, and so hate thee. 18 A man that beareth false witness against his neighbour is a maul, and a sword, and a sharp arrow. 19 Confidence in an unfaithful man in time of trouble is like a broken tooth, and a foot out of joint. 20 As he that taketh away a garment in cold weather, and as vinegar upon nitre, so is he that singeth songs to an heavy heart. 21 If thine enemy be hungry, give him bread to eat ; and if he be thirsty, give him water to drink : 22 For thou shalt heap coals of fire upon his head, and the LORD shall reward thee. 23 The north wind driveth away rain: so doth an angry countenance a backbiting tongue. 24 It is better to dwell in the corner of the housetop, than with a brawling woman and in a wide house. 25 As cold waters to a thirsty soul, so is good news from a far country. 26 A righteous man falling down before the wicked is as a troubled fountain, and a corrupt spring. 27 It is not good to eat much honey: so for men to search their own glory is not glory. 28 He that hath no rule over his own spirit is like a city that is broken down , and without walls.

    As snow in summer, and as rain in harvest, so honour is not seemly for a fool. 2 As the bird by wandering , as the swallow by flying , so the curse causeless shall not come . 3 A whip for the horse, a bridle for the ass, and a rod for the fool's back. 4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. 5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit. 6 He that sendeth a message by the hand of a fool cutteth off the feet, and drinketh damage. 7 The legs of the lame are not equal : so is a parable in the mouth of fools. 8 As he that bindeth a stone in a sling, so is he that giveth honour to a fool. 9 As a thorn goeth up into the hand of a drunkard, so is a parable in the mouth of fools. 10 The great God that formed all things both rewardeth the fool, and rewardeth transgressors . 11 As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly. 12 Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? there is more hope of a fool than of him. 13 The slothful man saith , There is a lion in the way; a lion is in the streets. 14 As the door turneth upon his hinges, so doth the slothful upon his bed. 15 The slothful hideth his hand in his bosom; it grieveth him to bring it again to his mouth. 16 The sluggard is wiser in his own conceit than seven men that can render a reason. 17 He that passeth by , and meddleth with strife belonging not to him, is like one that taketh a dog by the ears. 18 As a mad man who casteth firebrands, arrows, and death, 19 So is the man that deceiveth his neighbour, and saith , Am not I in sport ? 20 Where no wood is, there the fire goeth out : so where there is no talebearer, the strife ceaseth . 21 As coals are to burning coals, and wood to fire; so is a contentious man to kindle strife. 22 The words of a talebearer are as wounds , and they go down into the innermost parts of the belly. 23 Burning lips and a wicked heart are like a potsherd covered with silver dross. 24 He that hateth dissembleth with his lips, and layeth up deceit within him; 25 When he speaketh fair , believe him not: for there are seven abominations in his heart. 26 Whose hatred is covered by deceit, his wickedness shall be shewed before the whole congregation. 27 Whoso diggeth a pit shall fall therein: and he that rolleth a stone, it will return upon him. 28 A lying tongue hateth those that are afflicted by it; and a flattering mouth worketh ruin.

    Boast not thyself of to morrow; for thou knowest not what a day may bring forth . 2 Let another man praise thee, and not thine own mouth; a stranger, and not thine own lips. 3 A stone is heavy, and the sand weighty; but a fool's wrath is heavier than them both. 4 Wrath is cruel, and anger is outrageous; but who is able to stand before envy? 5 Open rebuke is better than secret love. 6 Faithful are the wounds of a friend ; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful . 7 The full soul loatheth an honeycomb; but to the hungry soul every bitter thing is sweet. 8 As a bird that wandereth from her nest, so is a man that wandereth from his place. 9 Ointment and perfume rejoice the heart: so doth the sweetness of a man's friend by hearty counsel. 10 Thine own friend, and thy father's friend, forsake not; neither go into thy brother's house in the day of thy calamity: for better is a neighbour that is near than a brother far off. 11 My son, be wise , and make my heart glad , that I may answer him that reproacheth me. 12 A prudent man foreseeth the evil, and hideth himself; but the simple pass on , and are punished . 13 Take his garment that is surety for a stranger , and take a pledge of him for a strange woman. 14 He that blesseth his friend with a loud voice, rising early in the morning, it shall be counted a curse to him. 15 A continual dropping in a very rainy day and a contentious woman are alike . 16 Whosoever hideth her hideth the wind, and the ointment of his right hand, which bewrayeth itself. 17 Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend. 18 Whoso keepeth the fig tree shall eat the fruit thereof: so he that waiteth on his master shall be honoured . 19 As in water face answereth to face, so the heart of man to man. 20 Hell and destruction are never full ; so the eyes of man are never satisfied . 21 As the fining pot for silver, and the furnace for gold; so is a man to his praise. 22 Though thou shouldest bray a fool in a mortar among wheat with a pestle, yet will not his foolishness depart from him. 23 Be thou diligent to know the state of thy flocks, and look well to thy herds. 24 For riches are not for ever: and doth the crown endure to every generation? 25 The hay appeareth , and the tender grass sheweth itself, and herbs of the mountains are gathered . 26 The lambs are for thy clothing, and the goats are the price of the field. 27 And thou shalt have goats' milk enough for thy food, for the food of thy household, and for the maintenance for thy maidens.

    The wicked flee when no man pursueth : but the righteous are bold as a lion. 2 For the transgression of a land many are the princes thereof: but by a man of understanding and knowledge the state thereof shall be prolonged . 3 A poor man that oppresseth the poor is like a sweeping rain which leaveth no food. 4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked: but such as keep the law contend with them. 5 Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the LORD understand all things. 6 Better is the poor that walketh in his uprightness, than he that is perverse in his ways, though he be rich. 7 Whoso keepeth the law is a wise son: but he that is a companion of riotous men shameth his father. 8 He that by usury and unjust gain increaseth his substance, he shall gather it for him that will pity the poor. 9 He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination. 10 Whoso causeth the righteous to go astray in an evil way, he shall fall himself into his own pit: but the upright shall have good things in possession . 11 The rich man is wise in his own conceit; but the poor that hath understanding searcheth him out . 12 When righteous men do rejoice , there is great glory: but when the wicked rise , a man is hidden . 13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper : but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy . 14 Happy is the man that feareth alway: but he that hardeneth his heart shall fall into mischief. 15 As a roaring lion, and a ranging bear; so is a wicked ruler over the poor people. 16 The prince that wanteth understanding is also a great oppressor: but he that hateth covetousness shall prolong his days. 17 A man that doeth violence to the blood of any person shall flee to the pit; let no man stay him. 18 Whoso walketh uprightly shall be saved : but he that is perverse in his ways shall fall at once. 19 He that tilleth his land shall have plenty of bread: but he that followeth after vain persons shall have poverty enough. 20 A faithful man shall abound with blessings: but he that maketh haste to be rich shall not be innocent . 21 To have respect of persons is not good: for for a piece of bread that man will transgress . 22 He that hasteth to be rich hath an evil eye, and considereth not that poverty shall come upon him. 23 He that rebuketh a man afterwards shall find more favour than he that flattereth with the tongue. 24 Whoso robbeth his father or his mother, and saith , It is no transgression; the same is the companion of a destroyer . 25 He that is of a proud heart stirreth up strife: but he that putteth his trust in the LORD shall be made fat . 26 He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool: but whoso walketh wisely, he shall be delivered . 27 He that giveth unto the poor shall not lack: but he that hideth his eyes shall have many a curse. 28 When the wicked rise , men hide themselves: but when they perish , the righteous increase .

    He, that being often reproved hardeneth his neck, shall suddenly be destroyed , and that without remedy. 2 When the righteous are in authority , the people rejoice : but when the wicked beareth rule , the people mourn . 3 Whoso loveth wisdom rejoiceth his father: but he that keepeth company with harlots spendeth his substance. 4 The king by judgment establisheth the land: but he that receiveth gifts overthroweth it. 5 A man that flattereth his neighbour spreadeth a net for his feet. 6 In the transgression of an evil man there is a snare: but the righteous doth sing and rejoice. 7 The righteous considereth the cause of the poor: but the wicked regardeth not to know it. 8 Scornful men bring a city into a snare : but wise men turn away wrath. 9 If a wise man contendeth with a foolish man, whether he rage or laugh , there is no rest. 10 The bloodthirsty hate the upright: but the just seek his soul. 11 A fool uttereth all his mind: but a wise man keepeth it in till afterwards. 12 If a ruler hearken to lies , all his servants are wicked. 13 The poor and the deceitful man meet together : the LORD lighteneth both their eyes. 14 The king that faithfully judgeth the poor, his throne shall be established for ever. 15 The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame . 16 When the wicked are multiplied , transgression increaseth : but the righteous shall see their fall. 17 Correct thy son, and he shall give thee rest ; yea, he shall give delight unto thy soul. 18 Where there is no vision, the people perish : but he that keepeth the law, happy is he. 19 A servant will not be corrected by words: for though he understand he will not answer. 20 Seest thou a man that is hasty in his words? there is more hope of a fool than of him. 21 He that delicately bringeth up his servant from a child shall have him become his son at the length. 22 An angry man stirreth up strife, and a furious man aboundeth in transgression. 23 A man's pride shall bring him low : but honour shall uphold the humble in spirit. 24 Whoso is partner with a thief hateth his own soul: he heareth cursing, and bewrayeth it not. 25 The fear of man bringeth a snare: but whoso putteth his trust in the LORD shall be safe . 26 Many seek the ruler's favour; but every man's judgment cometh from the LORD. 27 An unjust man is an abomination to the just: and he that is upright in the way is abomination to the wicked.

    I neither learned wisdom, nor have the knowledge of the holy. 4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended ? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell ? 5 Every word of God is pure : he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. 6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar . 7 Two things have I required of thee; deny me them not before I die : 8 Remove far from me vanity and lies : give me neither poverty nor riches; feed me with food convenient for me: 9 Lest I be full , and deny thee, and say , Who is the LORD? or lest I be poor , and steal , and take the name of my God in vain. 10 Accuse not a servant unto his master, lest he curse thee, and thou be found guilty . 11 There is a generation that curseth their father, and doth not bless their mother. 12 There is a generation that are pure in their own eyes, and yet is not washed from their filthiness. 13 There is a generation, O how lofty are their eyes! and their eyelids are lifted up . 14 There is a generation, whose teeth are as swords, and their jaw teeth as knives, to devour the poor from off the earth, and the needy from among men. 15 The horseleach hath two daughters, crying, Give , give . There are three things that are never satisfied , yea, four things say not, It is enough: 16 The grave; and the barren womb; the earth that is not filled with water; and the fire that saith not, It is enough. 17 The eye that mocketh at his father, and despiseth to obey his mother, the ravens of the valley shall pick it out , and the young eagles shall eat it. 18 There be three things which are too wonderful for me, yea, four which I know not: 19 The way of an eagle in the air; the way of a serpent upon a rock; the way of a ship in the midst of the sea; and the way of a man with a maid. 20 Such is the way of an adulterous woman; she eateth , and wipeth her mouth, and saith , I have done no wickedness. 21 For three things the earth is disquieted , and for four which it cannot bear : 22 For a servant when he reigneth ; and a fool when he is filled with meat; 23 For an odious woman when she is married ; and an handmaid that is heir to her mistress. 24 There be four things which are little upon the earth, but they are exceeding wise: 25 The ants are a people not strong, yet they prepare their meat in the summer; 26 The conies are but a feeble folk, yet make they their houses in the rocks; 27 The locusts have no king, yet go they forth all of them by bands ; 28 The spider taketh hold with her hands, and is in kings' palaces. 29 There be three things which go well , yea, four are comely in going : 30 A lion which is strongest among beasts, and turneth not away for any; 31 A greyhound ; an he goat also; and a king, against whom there is no rising up. 32 If thou hast done foolishly in lifting up thyself, or if thou hast thought evil , lay thine hand upon thy mouth. 33 Surely the churning of milk bringeth forth butter, and the wringing of the nose bringeth forth blood: so the forcing of wrath bringeth forth strife.

    What, my son? and what, the son of my womb? and what, the son of my vows? 3 Give not thy strength unto women, nor thy ways to that which destroyeth kings. 4 It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink: 5 Lest they drink , and forget the law , and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted . 6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish , and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts. 7 Let him drink , and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more. 8 Open thy mouth for the dumb in the cause of all such as are appointed to destruction. 9 Open thy mouth, judge righteously, and plead the cause of the poor and needy. 10 Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies. 11 The heart of her husband doth safely trust in her, so that he shall have no need of spoil. 12 She will do him good and not evil all the days of her life. 13 She seeketh wool, and flax, and worketh willingly with her hands. 14 She is like the merchants ' ships; she bringeth her food from afar. 15 She riseth also while it is yet night, and giveth meat to her household, and a portion to her maidens. 16 She considereth a field, and buyeth it: with the fruit of her hands she planteth a vineyard. 17 She girdeth her loins with strength, and strengtheneth her arms. 18 She perceiveth that her merchandise is good: her candle goeth not out by night. 19 She layeth her hands to the spindle, and her hands hold the distaff. 20 She stretcheth out her hand to the poor; yea, she reacheth forth her hands to the needy. 21 She is not afraid of the snow for her household: for all her household are clothed with scarlet. 22 She maketh herself coverings of tapestry; her clothing is silk and purple. 23 Her husband is known in the gates, when he sitteth among the elders of the land. 24 She maketh fine linen, and selleth it; and delivereth girdles unto the merchant. 25 Strength and honour are her clothing; and she shall rejoice in time to come. 26 She openeth her mouth with wisdom; and in her tongue is the law of kindness. 27 She looketh well to the ways of her household, and eateth not the bread of idleness. 28 Her children arise up , and call her blessed ; her husband also, and he praiseth her. 29 Many daughters have done virtuously, but thou excellest them all. 30 Favour is deceitful, and beauty is vain: but a woman that feareth the LORD, she shall be praised . 31 Give her of the fruit of her hands; and let her own works praise her in the gates.

    Posts : 7824
    Join date : 2010-09-28

    Re: The United States of the Solar System: A.D. 2133 (Book One)

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Sat Mar 28, 2015 2:30 pm

    B.B.Baghor wrote:Thank you for highlighting this SaLuSa material, ortho. Just to understand you better, is your encounter with the people who were followed by an UFO and had after-death encounters, in a way connected to the SaLuSa messages?

    There is no connection (as far as I know) -- other than being supernatural and otherworldly. This thread is just a big melting-pot of strange roads-less-traveled. There is a basic theme -- but I try not to get into harangue-mode. I just seem to make everyone angry with my irreverent and questioning approach -- as I search for solutions which might ultimately benefit everyone.

    I've always paid attention to those messages by SaLuSa, for I feel an energy of loving kindness in them. I'm, like you, no devotee or disciple, of beings or organizations. I fell in the cauldron of religion and had enough of the magic potion for the remaining part of my life  Bleh I found that the general view on our soul-purpose/journey, by SaLuSa, is similar to the one in the message by Jeshua, I posted today. In the Mercedes Kirkel thread.

    B.B.Baghor wrote:

    Christ's face in window Presbyteran Church Albany
    Photo by David Hinchen

    Received by Mercedes Kirkel  On February 5, 2015

    Yeshua: What I wish to bring forth is very simple, perhaps not easy, but nonetheless simple. It is about healing.

    There is really only ever one healing, which is the healing of separation from God. All other healing is a variation upon that, a certain frequency within that, which an individual may be more open to receiving in a particular moment. Ultimately, it does not matter if someone is healed physically or not. Certainly we care about others. Certainly our heart wishes others to be in their wellness, in their wholeness. Yet there are times, quite a few times, when it is pain that draws someone to God. So the healing is never about relieving pain or suffering. The healing is about relieving separation from God.

    You cannot necessarily tell this to people, unless they are ready to hear it, because they won’t understand. You may choose to offer healing of pain or suffering, and that may support someone in their path of coming closer to God. But ultimately, it is not your job to relieve anyone of pain. Your job is to fulfill your path of offering your gifts and service—to God and to the world—in the way that is most right for you. Then let go of the results because the results are divinely orchestrated. You are playing your part in this divine orchestra.

    This is what I wish to offer. Are there any questions you wish to ask?

    Question: In my particular case, is doing healing work one of the possible things that helps me to fully express my soul?

    Yeshua: You will always know what helps you to express your soul because the things your soul is choosing for its expression are the things that connect you to God. So this is the measure you can use to determine if something is your path. Ultimately, you do healing for yourself, because it is your path to do so and by following your path you are connecting to God. It is your connection to God that serves others, more than anything you do to alter their circumstance. Your connection to God helps them most directly to connect to God. If healing is the pathway through which you can offer that, then that is your path. If chewing bubble gum is the pathway through which you can offer that, that is your path. It does not matter.

    Questioner: I also feel close to God through gardening.

    Yeshua: Yes. And there are all sorts of ways that you bless the Earth and all the people on the Earth through every touch of the Earth. There are infinite ways to serve. It is all about your connection to God and what lights you up, what brings your joy, what brings you passion—which is simply the energy of God filling you.

    Questioner: (crying) That’s what I miss the most about my daughter [who died]. I felt like the love of God would shine through her eyes. Almost immediately after she died, I realized I’m left here on Earth to create that, without having it be for her.

    Yeshua: Yes, you are understanding perfectly.

    Questioner: The beauty that I saw in her was just God’s love shining through.

    Yeshua: Absolutely. That is all there is. That is all this realm consists of. Any being stays in this realm until they realize that and become God’s light themselves. Then they are ready to leave and continue in another realm.

    Questioner: My mother, in her dementia, has been screaming out that she was abused when she was younger. The doctors are wondering if this really happened, but I have no proof. Can you tell me if this actually happened?

    Yeshua: You are not understanding what’s happening correctly.

    The mind is a filter. The mind filters out the vast amount of information contained in your whole universe, which is the kind of information that exists in the Akashic Record—the information of everything. This would totally overwhelm beings and they would be nonfunctional if they received all this information. So the mind filters this out. When someone has dementia, they are losing their filter. So your mother is opening up to massive amounts of information that may be hers and may be others’.

    Ultimately, it does not matter if this happened to her or did not happen to her, if it happened to her in this lifetime or if it happened to her in another lifetime. It does not matter. It is her reality now. She is experiencing this now. So you should relate to her as though this is what’s happening now.
    Give her the exact response you would give her if this were definitely the truth and her real situation—because it is, for her.

    She may very well need healing. I would say she definitely needs compassion and a safe space to express her pain. Support her in expressing her pain and allow her to do so. Let her know, “Yes, yes, I hear how much pain you’re in, how painful and awful that must have been. Is there more you want to share?” Let her share. And help her, just as you would if this had happened recently.

    I offer you my deepest, fullest blessings".

    ©️2015 Mercedes Kirkel,, All Rights Reserved. Permission is given to share this message as long as the message is posted in its entirety, nothing has been changed or altered in any way, and Mercedes Kirkel’s credit of authorship, this copyright notice, and Mercedes Kirkel’s website ( are included. To receive ongoing messages from Mary Magdalene and others, go to and sign up for the Into The Heart weekly newsletter.
    orthodoxymoron wrote:My focus on the concept of the Science-Fictional Hybrid-Queen is somewhat reflective of Lilith -- Isis -- the Queen of Sheba -- the Black Madonna -- Cleopatra -- and Mary Magdalene. I tend to gravitate toward the Mean-Queen Theme. What Would Bloody-Mary Do?? Do you really wanna know??? I am presently very-open and very-skeptical toward just about everyone and everything -- including most of the material I post on "my" thread. Anybody can write or say just about anything. A lot of religious stuff is very difficult (or even impossible) to verify. Lawyer-Like Theologians and Preachers can slant things in a most dishonest and nefarious manner. A channeled religious-figure could really be some demonic-entity (for all anyone knows). I honestly don't know if I am fundamentally good or bad (especially in previous incarnations). Life is really a big annoying question-mark for me. I have a particular editorial-slant -- but I am even skeptical of that. I have no idea how much I think and say is representative of the way things really are. No idea at all. I'm presently reading a book about Mary Magdalene by Lynn Picknett. It's quite fine -- but I'm reading it with a Dead-Sea of Salt. Tradition and history have made of her "the other Mary." Even in the New Testament Mary Magdalene stands among women second only to Mary the Mother, albeit she has been reduced by the biblical Gospels to little more than a fallen woman redeemed by Jesus. In the Gnostic Gospels, however, Magdalene figures almost as significantly as Christ, who names her "the woman who knows all." The conflicting accounts of Mary Magdalene have sent best-selling author Lynn Picknett on a quest for the truth that has led her to the thirteenth-century cult of the Black Madonna, then back to Christianity's beginnings and earlier. Tracing Mary's name to Magdala in Egypt, Picknett learns that the term Magdal-eder means "tower of the flock," or Good Shepherd, a title also given to Jesus Christ. Based on her explorations into new scholarship on recently discovered Gnostic texts, Picknett finds a vital partnership between Jesus and Mary that synthesized Eastern and Egyptian mysticism and that promulgated gender equality, anointing rites, and sexual rituals. In that relationship, she discovers an alliance that Christ's Apostles and, later, the Catholic Church strove ardently to suppress. Picknett's revelations rarely fail to provoke at least a reconsideration of long-accepted church doctrine.

    B.B.Baghor wrote:
    ortho's words: "I'm presently reading a book about Mary Magdalene by Lynn Picknett. It's quite fine -- but I'm reading it with a Dead-Sea of Salt"

    Your sense of humor is priceless, ortho, at least you can read the book while floating, on the sea of tears, in laughter or sadness LOL

    On my part, regarding my way of dealing with such messages like in this thread and other channeled material, or those on ET existence, intraterrestrial beings, from hands on experience, astral traveling or through hearing voices, also views from all kind of sources on global affairs of all 13 kinds, I usually make sense of them, when I feel I can relate to the content, feeling touched by it in a good way. And inspired, uplifted or heart-warmed.

    I've made it a habit, to explore at least 5 sources of a certain piece of information, comparing and making sense of it or not. Grains of salt are very useful, also having them near, when reading my sometimes bold statements. I mean the style, not the content, This statement is an example of what I mean, throwing confusion in for those who can read between my/the lines. Cheerful
    I try to study various approaches without becoming submissive to particular personalities and/or power-structures -- but this is not fundamentally rebellious in nature. I'm honestly attempting to positively-reinforce everyone and everything -- even if it doesn't seem like it.

    If I may ask, ortho, was your encounter with the being (or beings?) with the name of an Ancient Egyptian Deity, in person, or did it occur in the astral realms? That first blue spaceship-deck picture in your post looks great, that "window with a view". What a view!

    It was in-person over several months. It was rather interesting and intense. I have repeatedly featured this close-encounter throughout this thread -- but I haven't made a great-big deal about it. A visitor or casual-observer would probably miss it altogether. I'd like to travel the cosmos in a spaceship -- but the price of admission might be way too high -- and I strongly advise against getting into a UFO. The Ancient Egyptian Deity was a Guardian of the Galaxy kind of guy -- and I'm NOT kidding!!

    Here is yet another slight KJV study-list variation:

    1. Deuteronomy.
    2. Job through Isaiah.
    3. Luke.

    I continue to be interested in what seems to be two or three different Bibles and/or Gods within the Holy Bible.

    1. Genesis through Esther.
    2. Job through Malachi.
    3. Matthew through Revelation.

    If all else fails -- try this study-list:

    1. Job through John (KJV).
    2. Prophets and Kings (EGW).
    3. The Music of J.S. Bach.

    The Ancient Egyptian Deity said they liked Genesis -- and they said it in a rather creepy manner. Sherry Shriner said that Matthew was her favorite book of the Bible -- but she focuses on Revelation -- and upon violent and horrific prophetic-stuff and current-events -- as sort of a Galactic-Enquirer. My current bias is toward studying Job through John while listening to the music of J.S. Bach in the context of this particular thread -- but this sort of thing is not for everyone. This is a rather harsh and disorienting research-project. Don't try this at home kiddies!! "Make the coffee, Jupiter??" I hate my life...

    Hear , O heavens, and give ear , O earth: for the LORD hath spoken , I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me.  3 The ox knoweth his owner , and the ass his master's crib: but Israel doth not know , my people doth not consider .  4 Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers , children that are corrupters : they have forsaken  the LORD, they have provoked  the Holy One of Israel unto anger , they are gone away backward.  5 Why should ye be stricken any more? ye will revolt more and more : the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint.  6 From the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness in it; but wounds, and bruises, and putrifying sores: they have not been closed , neither bound up , neither mollified with ointment.  7 Your country is desolate, your cities are burned with fire: your land, strangers devour it in your presence, and it is desolate, as overthrown by strangers .  8 And the daughter of Zion is left as a cottage in a vineyard, as a lodge in a garden of cucumbers, as a besieged city.  9 Except the LORD of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.  10 Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.  11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.  12 When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?  13 Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with ; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.  14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth : they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.  

    And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear : your hands are full of blood.  16 Wash you, make you clean ; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil ;  17 Learn to do well ; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.  18 Come now , and let us reason together , saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.  19 If ye be willing and obedient , ye shall eat the good of the land:  20 But if ye refuse and rebel , ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.  21 How is the faithful city become an harlot ! it was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it; but now murderers .  22 Thy silver is become dross, thy wine mixed with water:  23 Thy princes are rebellious , and companions of thieves: every one loveth gifts, and followeth after rewards: they judge not the fatherless, neither doth the cause of the widow come unto them.  24 Therefore saith the Lord, the LORD of hosts, the mighty One of Israel, Ah, I will ease me of mine adversaries, and avenge me of mine enemies :  25 And I will turn my hand upon thee, and purely purge away thy dross, and take away all thy tin:  26 And I will restore thy judges as at the first, and thy counsellors as at the beginning: afterward thou shalt be called , The city of righteousness, the faithful city.  27 Zion shall be redeemed with judgment, and her converts with righteousness.  28 And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the LORD shall be consumed .  29 For they shall be ashamed of the oaks which ye have desired , and ye shall be confounded for the gardens that ye have chosen .  30 For ye shall be as an oak whose leaf fadeth , and as a garden that hath no water.  31 And the strong shall be as tow, and the maker of it as a spark, and they shall both burn together, and none shall quench them.

    The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.  2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.  3 And many people shall go and say , Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.  4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.  5 O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the LORD.  6 Therefore thou hast forsaken thy people the house of Jacob, because they be replenished from the east, and are soothsayers like the Philistines, and they please themselves in the children of strangers.  7 Their land also is full of silver and gold, neither is there any end of their treasures; their land is also full of horses, neither is there any end of their chariots:  8 Their land also is full of idols; they worship the work of their own hands, that which their own fingers have made :  9 And the mean man boweth down , and the great man humbleth himself: therefore forgive them not.  10 Enter into the rock, and hide thee in the dust, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty.  11 The lofty looks of man shall be humbled , and the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down , and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day.  12 For the day of the LORD of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty , and upon every one that is lifted up ; and he shall be brought low :  13 And upon all the cedars of Lebanon, that are high and lifted up , and upon all the oaks of Bashan,  14 And upon all the high mountains, and upon all the hills that are lifted up ,  15 And upon every high tower, and upon every fenced wall,  16 And upon all the ships of Tarshish, and upon all pleasant pictures.  17 And the loftiness of man shall be bowed down , and the haughtiness of men shall be made low : and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day.  18 And the idols he shall utterly abolish .  19 And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.  20 In that day a man shall cast his idols of silver, and his idols of gold, which they made each one for himself to worship , to the moles and to the bats;  21 To go into the clefts of the rocks, and into the tops of the ragged rocks, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.  22 Cease ye from man, whose breath is in his nostrils: for wherein is he to be accounted of?

    For, behold, the Lord, the LORD of hosts, doth take away from Jerusalem and from Judah the stay and the staff, the whole stay of bread, and the whole stay of water,  2 The mighty man, and the man of war, the judge , and the prophet, and the prudent , and the ancient,  3 The captain of fifty, and the honourable man, and the counsellor , and the cunning artificer, and the eloquent orator.  4 And I will give children to be their princes, and babes shall rule over them.  5 And the people shall be oppressed , every one by another, and every one by his neighbour: the child shall behave himself proudly against the ancient, and the base against the honourable .  6 When a man shall take hold of his brother of the house of his father, saying, Thou hast clothing, be thou our ruler, and let this ruin be under thy hand:  7 In that day shall he swear , saying , I will not be an healer ; for in my house is neither bread nor clothing: make me not a ruler of the people.  8 For Jerusalem is ruined , and Judah is fallen : because their tongue and their doings are against the LORD, to provoke the eyes of his glory.  9 The shew of their countenance doth witness against them ; and they declare their sin as Sodom, they hide it not. Woe unto their soul! for they have rewarded evil unto themselves.  10 Say ye to the righteous, that it shall be well with him: for they shall eat the fruit of their doings.  11 Woe unto the wicked! it shall be ill with him: for the reward of his hands shall be given him.  12 As for my people, children are their oppressors , and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err , and destroy the way of thy paths.  13 The LORD standeth up to plead , and standeth to judge the people.  14 The LORD will enter into judgment with the ancients of his people, and the princes thereof: for ye have eaten up the vineyard; the spoil of the poor is in your houses.  15 What mean ye that ye beat my people to pieces , and grind the faces of the poor? saith the Lord GOD of hosts.  16 Moreover the LORD saith , Because the daughters of Zion are haughty , and walk with stretched forth necks and wanton eyes, walking and mincing as they go , and making a tinkling with their feet:  17 Therefore the Lord will smite with a scab the crown of the head of the daughters of Zion, and the LORD will discover their secret parts.  18 In that day the Lord will take away the bravery of their tinkling ornaments about their feet, and their cauls, and their round tires like the moon,  19 The chains, and the bracelets, and the mufflers,  20 The bonnets, and the ornaments of the legs, and the headbands, and the tablets , and the earrings,  21 The rings, and nose jewels,  22 The changeable suits of apparel, and the mantles, and the wimples, and the crisping pins,  23 The glasses, and the fine linen, and the hoods, and the vails.  24 And it shall come to pass, that instead of sweet smell there shall be stink; and instead of a girdle a rent; and instead of well set hair baldness; and instead of a stomacher a girding of sackcloth; and burning instead of beauty.  25 Thy men shall fall by the sword, and thy mighty in the war.  26 And her gates shall lament and mourn ; and she being desolate shall sit upon the ground.

    And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying , We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach.  2 In that day shall the branch of the LORD be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the earth shall be excellent and comely for them that are escaped of Israel.  3 And it shall come to pass, that he that is left in Zion, and he that remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be called holy, even every one that is written among the living in Jerusalem:  4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning .  5 And the LORD will create upon every dwelling place of mount Zion, and upon her assemblies, a cloud and smoke by day, and the shining of a flaming fire by night: for upon all the glory shall be a defence.  6 And there shall be a tabernacle for a shadow in the daytime from the heat, and for a place of refuge, and for a covert from storm and from rain.

    Now will I sing to my wellbeloved a song of my beloved touching his vineyard. My wellbeloved hath a vineyard in a very fruitful  hill:  2 And he fenced it, and gathered out the stones thereof, and planted it with the choicest vine, and built a tower in the midst of it, and also made a winepress therein: and he looked that it should bring forth grapes, and it brought forth wild grapes.  3 And now, O inhabitants of Jerusalem, and men of Judah, judge , I pray you, betwixt me and my vineyard.  4 What could have been done more to my vineyard, that I have not done in it? wherefore, when I looked that it should bring forth grapes, brought it forth wild grapes?  5 And now go to; I will tell you what I will do to my vineyard: I will take away the hedge thereof, and it shall be eaten up ; and break down the wall thereof, and it shall be trodden down:  6 And I will lay it waste: it shall not be pruned , nor digged ; but there shall come up briers and thorns: I will also command the clouds that they rain no rain upon it.  7 For the vineyard of the LORD of hosts is the house of Israel, and the men of Judah his pleasant plant: and he looked for judgment, but behold oppression; for righteousness, but behold a cry.  8 Woe unto them that join house to house, that lay field to field, till there be no place, that they may be placed alone in the midst of the earth!  9 In mine ears said the LORD of hosts, Of a truth many houses shall be desolate, even great and fair, without inhabitant .  10 Yea, ten acres of vineyard shall yield one bath, and the seed of an homer shall yield an ephah.  11 Woe unto them that rise up early in the morning, that they may follow strong drink; that continue until night, till wine inflame them!  12 And the harp, and the viol, the tabret, and pipe, and wine, are in their feasts: but they regard not the work of the LORD, neither consider the operation of his hands.  13 Therefore my people are gone into captivity , because they have no knowledge: and their honourable men are famished, and their multitude dried up with thirst.  14 Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.  

    And the mean man shall be brought down , and the mighty man shall be humbled , and the eyes of the lofty shall be humbled :  16 But the LORD of hosts shall be exalted in judgment, and God that is holy shall be sanctified in righteousness.  17 Then shall the lambs feed after their manner, and the waste places of the fat ones shall strangers eat .  18 Woe unto them that draw iniquity with cords of vanity, and sin as it were with a cart rope:  19 That say , Let him make speed , and hasten his work, that we may see it: and let the counsel of the Holy One of Israel draw nigh and come , that we may know it!  20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!  21 Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!  22 Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink:  23 Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him!  24 Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame  consumeth the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.  25 Therefore is the anger of the LORD kindled against his people, and he hath stretched forth his hand against them, and hath smitten them: and the hills did tremble , and their carcases were torn in the midst of the streets. For all this his anger is not turned away , but his hand is stretched out still.  26 And he will lift up an ensign to the nations from far, and will hiss unto them from the end of the earth: and, behold, they shall come with speed swiftly:  27 None shall be weary nor stumble among them; none shall slumber nor sleep ; neither shall the girdle of their loins be loosed , nor the latchet of their shoes be broken :  28 Whose arrows are sharp , and all their bows bent , their horses' hoofs shall be counted like flint, and their wheels like a whirlwind:  29 Their roaring shall be like a lion, they shall roar like young lions: yea, they shall roar , and lay hold of the prey, and shall carry it away safe , and none shall deliver it.  30 And in that day they shall roar against them like the roaring of the sea: and if one look unto the land, behold darkness and sorrow, and the light is darkened in the heavens thereof.

    In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up , and his train filled the temple.  2 Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly .  3 And one cried unto another, and said , Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.  4 And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried , and the house was filled with smoke.  5 Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone ; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts.  6 Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar:  7 And he laid it upon my mouth, and said , Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away , and thy sin purged .  8 Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying , Whom shall I send , and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.  9 And he said , Go , and tell this people, Hear ye indeed , but understand not; and see ye indeed , but perceive not.  10 Make the heart of this people fat , and make their ears heavy , and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert , and be healed .  11 Then said I, Lord, how long? And he answered , Until the cities be wasted without inhabitant , and the houses without man, and the land be utterly desolate ,  12 And the LORD have removed men far away , and there be a great forsaking in the midst of the land.  13 But yet in it shall be a tenth, and it shall return , and shall be eaten : as a teil tree, and as an oak, whose substance is in them, when they cast their leaves: so the holy seed shall be the substance thereof.

    And it came to pass in the days of Ahaz the son of Jotham, the son of Uzziah, king of Judah, that Rezin the king of Syria, and Pekah the son of Remaliah, king of Israel, went up toward Jerusalem to war against it, but could not prevail against it.  2 And it was told the house of David, saying , Syria is confederate with Ephraim. And his heart was moved , and the heart of his people, as the trees of the wood are moved with the wind.  3 Then said the LORD unto Isaiah, Go forth now to meet Ahaz, thou, and Shearjashub thy son, at the end of the conduit of the upper pool in the highway of the fuller's field;  4 And say unto him, Take heed , and be quiet ; fear not, neither be fainthearted  for the two tails of these smoking firebrands, for the fierce anger of Rezin with Syria, and of the son of Remaliah.  5 Because Syria, Ephraim, and the son of Remaliah, have taken evil counsel against thee, saying ,  6 Let us go up against Judah, and vex it, and let us make a breach therein for us, and set a king in the midst of it, even the son of Tabeal:  7 Thus saith the Lord GOD, It shall not stand , neither shall it come to pass.  8 For the head of Syria is Damascus, and the head of Damascus is Rezin; and within threescore and five years shall Ephraim be broken , that it be not a people.  9 And the head of Ephraim is Samaria, and the head of Samaria is Remaliah's son. If ye will not believe , surely ye shall not be established .  10 Moreover the LORD spake again unto Ahaz, saying ,  11 Ask thee a sign of the LORD thy God; ask it either in the depth , or in the height above.  12 But Ahaz said , I will not ask , neither will I tempt  the LORD.  13 And he said , Hear ye now, O house of David; Is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will ye weary my God also?  14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel .  15 Butter and honey shall he eat , that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.  16 For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.  17 The LORD shall bring upon thee, and upon thy people, and upon thy father's house, days that have not come , from the day that Ephraim departed from Judah; even the king of Assyria.  18 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall hiss for the fly that is in the uttermost part of the rivers of Egypt, and for the bee that is in the land of Assyria.  19 And they shall come , and shall rest all of them in the desolate valleys, and in the holes of the rocks, and upon all thorns, and upon all bushes.  20 In the same day shall the Lord shave with a razor that is hired, namely, by them beyond the river, by the king of Assyria, the head, and the hair of the feet: and it shall also consume the beard.  21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a man shall nourish a young cow, and two sheep;  22 And it shall come to pass, for the abundance of milk that they shall give he shall eat butter: for butter and honey shall every one eat that is left in the land.  23 And it shall come to pass in that day, that every place shall be, where there were a thousand vines at a thousand silverlings, it shall even be for briers and thorns.  24 With arrows and with bows shall men come thither; because all the land shall become briers and thorns.  25 And on all hills that shall be digged with the mattock, there shall not come thither the fear of briers and thorns: but it shall be for the sending forth of oxen, and for the treading of lesser cattle.

    Moreover the LORD said unto me, Take thee a great roll, and write in it with a man's pen concerning Mahershalalhashbaz.  2 And I took unto me faithful witnesses to record , Uriah the priest, and Zechariah the son of Jeberechiah.  3 And I went unto the prophetess; and she conceived , and bare a son. Then said the LORD to me, Call his name Mahershalalhashbaz.  4 For before the child shall have knowledge to cry , My father, and my mother, the riches of Damascus and the spoil of Samaria shall be taken away before the king of Assyria.  5 The LORD spake also unto me again , saying ,  6 Forasmuch as this people refuseth the waters of Shiloah that go softly, and rejoice in Rezin and Remaliah's son;  7 Now therefore, behold, the Lord bringeth up upon them the waters of the river, strong and many, even the king of Assyria, and all his glory: and he shall come up over all his channels, and go over all his banks:  8 And he shall pass through Judah; he shall overflow and go over , he shall reach even to the neck; and the stretching out of his wings shall fill the breadth of thy land, O Immanuel .  9 Associate yourselves, O ye people, and ye shall be broken in pieces ; and give ear , all ye of far countries: gird yourselves, and ye shall be broken in pieces ; gird yourselves, and ye shall be broken in pieces .  10 Take counsel together , and it shall come to nought ; speak the word, and it shall not stand : for God is with us.  11 For the LORD spake thus to me with a strong hand, and instructed me that I should not walk in the way of this people, saying ,  12 Say ye not, A confederacy, to all them to whom this people shall say , A confederacy; neither fear ye their fear, nor be afraid .  13 Sanctify the LORD of hosts himself; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread .  14 And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.  15 And many among them shall stumble , and fall , and be broken , and be snared , and be taken .  16 Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.  17 And I will wait upon the LORD, that hideth his face from the house of Jacob, and I will look for him.  18 Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion.  19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep , and that mutter : should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead ?  20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.  21 And they shall pass through it, hardly bestead and hungry: and it shall come to pass, that when they shall be hungry , they shall fret themselves, and curse their king and their God, and look upward.  22 And they shall look unto the earth; and behold trouble and darkness, dimness of anguish; and they shall be driven to darkness.

    Nevertheless the dimness shall not be such as was in her vexation, when at the first he lightly afflicted the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, and afterward did more grievously afflict her by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, in Galilee of the nations.  2 The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined .  3 Thou hast multiplied the nation, and not increased the joy: they joy before thee according to the joy in harvest, and as men rejoice when they divide the spoil.  4 For thou hast broken the yoke of his burden, and the staff of his shoulder, the rod of his oppressor , as in the day of Midian.  5 For every battle of the warrior is with confused noise, and garments rolled in blood; but this shall be with burning and fuel of fire.  6 For unto us a child is born , unto us a son is given : and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor , The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.  7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.  8 The Lord sent a word into Jacob, and it hath lighted upon Israel.  9 And all the people shall know , even Ephraim and the inhabitant of Samaria, that say in the pride and stoutness of heart,  10 The bricks are fallen down , but we will build with hewn stones: the sycomores are cut down , but we will change them into cedars.  11 Therefore the LORD shall set up the adversaries of Rezin against him, and join his enemies together ;  12 The Syrians before, and the Philistines behind; and they shall devour Israel with open mouth. For all this his anger is not turned away , but his hand is stretched out still .  13 For the people turneth not unto him that smiteth them, neither do they seek the LORD of hosts.  14 Therefore the LORD will cut off from Israel head and tail, branch and rush, in one day.  15 The ancient and honourable  , he is the head; and the prophet that teacheth lies, he is the tail.  16 For the leaders of this people cause them to err ; and they that are led of them are destroyed .  17 Therefore the Lord shall have no joy in their young men, neither shall have mercy on their fatherless and widows: for every one is an hypocrite and an evildoer , and every mouth speaketh folly. For all this his anger is not turned away , but his hand is stretched out still .  18 For wickedness burneth as the fire: it shall devour the briers and thorns, and shall kindle in the thickets of the forest, and they shall mount up like the lifting up of smoke.  19 Through the wrath of the LORD of hosts is the land darkened , and the people shall be as the fuel of the fire: no man shall spare his brother.  20 And he shall snatch on the right hand, and be hungry; and he shall eat on the left hand, and they shall not be satisfied : they shall eat every man the flesh of his own arm:  21 Manasseh, Ephraim; and Ephraim, Manasseh: and they together shall be against Judah. For all this his anger is not turned away , but his hand is stretched out still.

    Woe unto them that decree unrighteous decrees, and that write grievousness which they have prescribed ;  2 To turn aside the needy from judgment, and to take away the right from the poor of my people, that widows may be their prey, and that they may rob the fatherless!  3 And what will ye do in the day of visitation, and in the desolation which shall come from far? to whom will ye flee for help? and where will ye leave your glory?  4 Without me they shall bow down under the prisoners, and they shall fall under the slain . For all this his anger is not turned away , but his hand is stretched out still .  5 O Assyrian, the rod of mine anger, and the staff in their hand is mine indignation.  6 I will send him against an hypocritical nation, and against the people of my wrath will I give him a charge , to take the spoil, and to take the prey, and to tread them down  like the mire of the streets.  7 Howbeit he meaneth not so, neither doth his heart think so; but it is in his heart to destroy and cut off nations not a few.  8 For he saith , Are not my princes altogether kings?  9 Is not Calno as Carchemish? is not Hamath as Arpad? is not Samaria as Damascus?  10 As my hand hath found the kingdoms of the idols, and whose graven images did excel them of Jerusalem and of Samaria;  11 Shall I not, as I have done unto Samaria and her idols, so do to Jerusalem and her idols?  12 Wherefore it shall come to pass, that when the Lord hath performed his whole work upon mount Zion and on Jerusalem, I will punish the fruit of the stout heart of the king of Assyria, and the glory of his high looks.  13 For he saith , By the strength of my hand I have done it, and by my wisdom; for I am prudent : and I have removed the bounds of the people, and have robbed their treasures  , and I have put down the inhabitants like a valiant man:  14 And my hand hath found as a nest the riches of the people: and as one gathereth eggs that are left , have I gathered all the earth; and there was none that moved the wing, or opened the mouth, or peeped .  15 Shall the axe boast itself against him that heweth therewith? or shall the saw magnify itself against him that shaketh it? as if the rod should shake itself against them that lift it up , or as if the staff should lift up itself, as if it were no wood.  

    Therefore shall the Lord, the Lord  of hosts, send among his fat ones leanness; and under his glory he shall kindle a burning like the burning of a fire. 17 And the light of Israel shall be for a fire, and his Holy One for a flame: and it shall burn and devour his thorns and his briers in one day;  18 And shall consume the glory of his forest, and of his fruitful field, both soul and body: and they shall be as when a standardbearer fainteth .  19 And the rest of the trees of his forest shall be few, that a child may write them.  20 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the remnant of Israel, and such as are escaped of the house of Jacob, shall no more again stay upon him that smote them; but shall stay upon the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, in truth.  21 The remnant shall return , even the remnant of Jacob, unto the mighty God.  22 For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, yet a remnant of them shall return : the consumption decreed shall overflow with righteousness.  23 For the Lord GOD of hosts shall make a consumption, even determined , in the midst of all the land.  24 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD of hosts, O my people that dwellest in Zion, be not afraid of the Assyrian: he shall smite thee with a rod, and shall lift up his staff against thee, after the manner of Egypt.  25 For yet a very little while, and the indignation shall cease , and mine anger in their destruction.  26 And the LORD of hosts shall stir up a scourge for him according to the slaughter of Midian at the rock of Oreb: and as his rod was upon the sea, so shall he lift it up after the manner of Egypt.  27 And it shall come to pass in that day, that his burden shall be taken away from off thy shoulder, and his yoke from off thy neck, and the yoke shall be destroyed because of the anointing.  28 He is come to Aiath, he is passed to Migron; at Michmash he hath laid up his carriages:  29 They are gone over the passage: they have taken up their lodging at Geba; Ramah is afraid ; Gibeah of Saul is fled .  30 Lift up thy voice, O daughter of Gallim: cause it to be heard unto Laish, O poor Anathoth.  31 Madmenah is removed ; the inhabitants of Gebim gather themselves to flee .  32 As yet shall he remain at Nob that day: he shall shake his hand against the mount of the daughter  of Zion, the hill of Jerusalem.  33 Behold, the Lord, the LORD of hosts, shall lop the bough with terror: and the high ones of stature shall be hewn down , and the haughty shall be humbled .  34 And he shall cut down the thickets of the forest with iron, and Lebanon shall fall by a mighty one.

    And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:  2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;  3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:  4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.  5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.  6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.  7 And the cow and the bear shall feed ; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.  8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.  9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.  10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek : and his rest shall be glorious.  11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left , from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.  12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.  13 The envy also of Ephraim shall depart , and the adversaries of Judah shall be cut off : Ephraim shall not envy Judah, and Judah shall not vex Ephraim.  14 But they shall fly upon the shoulders of the Philistines toward the west; they shall spoil them of the east together: they shall lay their hand upon Edom and Moab; and the children of Ammon shall obey them.  15 And the LORD shall utterly destroy the tongue of the Egyptian sea; and with his mighty wind shall he shake his hand over the river, and shall smite it in the seven streams, and make men go over dryshod.  16 And there shall be an highway for the remnant of his people, which shall be left , from Assyria; like as it was to Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt.

    And in that day thou shalt say , O LORD, I will praise thee: though thou wast angry with me, thine anger is turned away , and thou comfortedst me.  2 Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust , and not be afraid : for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation.  3 Therefore with joy shall ye draw water out of the wells of salvation.  4 And in that day shall ye say , Praise the LORD, call upon his name, declare his doings among the people, make mention that his name is exalted .  5 Sing unto the LORD; for he hath done excellent things: this is known in all the earth.  6 Cry out and shout , thou inhabitant of Zion: for great is the Holy One of Israel in the midst of thee.

    The burden of Babylon, which Isaiah the son of Amoz did see .  2 Lift ye up a banner upon the high mountain, exalt the voice unto them, shake the hand, that they may go into the gates of the nobles.  3 I have commanded my sanctified ones , I have also called my mighty ones for mine anger, even them that rejoice in my highness.  4 The noise of a multitude in the mountains, like as of a great people; a tumultuous noise of the kingdoms of nations gathered together : the LORD of hosts mustereth the host of the battle.  5 They come from a far country, from the end of heaven, even the LORD, and the weapons of his indignation, to destroy the whole land.  6 Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.  7 Therefore shall all hands be faint , and every man's heart shall melt :  8 And they shall be afraid : pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth : they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames.  9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh , cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.  10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth , and the moon shall not cause her light to shine .  11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease , and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.  12 I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.  13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.  14 And it shall be as the chased roe, and as a sheep that no man taketh up : they shall every man turn to his own people, and flee every one into his own land.  15 Every one that is found shall be thrust through ; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword.  16 Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled , and their wives ravished .  17 Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver; and as for gold, they shall not delight in it.  18 Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces ; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eye shall not spare children.  19 And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.  20 It shall never be inhabited , neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation: neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there; neither shall the shepherds make their fold there.  21 But wild beasts of the desert shall lie there; and their houses shall be full of doleful creatures; and owls shall dwell there, and satyrs shall dance there.  22 And the wild beasts of the islands shall cry in their desolate houses, and dragons in their pleasant palaces: and her time is near to come , and her days shall not be prolonged.

    For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.  2 And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the LORD for servants and handmaids: and they shall take them captives , whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors .  3 And it shall come to pass in the day that the LORD shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve ,  4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say , How hath the oppressor ceased ! the golden city ceased !  5 The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers .  6 He who smote the people in wrath with a continual  stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth .  7 The whole earth is at rest , and is quiet : they break forth into singing.  8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down , no feller is come up against us.  9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming : it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.  10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?  11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.  12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!  13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:  14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.  15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

    They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble , that did shake kingdoms;  17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?  18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.  19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain , thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet .  20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned .  21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise , nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities  .  22 For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the LORD.  23 I will also make it a possession for the bittern, and pools of water: and I will sweep it with the besom of destruction , saith the LORD of hosts.  24 The LORD of hosts hath sworn , saying , Surely as I have thought , so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed , so shall it stand :  25 That I will break the Assyrian in my land, and upon my mountains tread him under foot : then shall his yoke depart from off them, and his burden depart from off their shoulders.  26 This is the purpose that is purposed upon the whole earth: and this is the hand that is stretched out upon all the nations.  27 For the LORD of hosts hath purposed , and who shall disannul it? and his hand is stretched out , and who shall turn it back ?  28 In the year that king Ahaz died was this burden.  29 Rejoice not thou, whole Palestina, because the rod of him that smote thee is broken : for out of the serpent's root shall come forth a cockatrice, and his fruit shall be a fiery flying serpent.  30 And the firstborn of the poor shall feed , and the needy shall lie down in safety: and I will kill thy root with famine, and he shall slay thy remnant.  31 Howl , O gate; cry , O city; thou, whole Palestina, art dissolved : for there shall come from the north a smoke, and none shall be alone in his appointed times.  32 What shall one then answer the messengers of the nation? That the LORD hath founded Zion, and the poor of his people shall trust in it.

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    Re: The United States of the Solar System: A.D. 2133 (Book One)

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Sat Mar 28, 2015 2:37 pm

    B.B.Baghor wrote: ortho's words: "I try to provide a wide variety of posts -- despite accusations that I just keep saying the same things over and over again. On the other hand, if I were inconsistent, I would be accused of being confused and unstable. I frankly don't care what anyone thinks. I simply want everyone to think. Period".

    Comment in the tubby with the grizzly bears catching salmon, in your post "For every salmon that is caught, hundreds make it past the bears......."

    Once upon a time -- I had a digital voice-recorder which worked perfectly -- expect when recording one particular individual. A normal-sounding voice became a hideous gravely (almost demonic) voice when played-back on that particular digital-recorder!! This occurred repeatedly (without exception). I mentioned this to the Ancient Egyptian Deity -- to which they replied "Some Slip Through". Honest.

    Honestly, ortho, comments on your saying the same things over and over, to me that's not an accusation. When I share that opinion, it's a comment on how it's perceived by me. For some reason you seem to be fixed on that judgment, of being accused, so that you feel compelled to repeat your message, in order to prove you're right or to make clear what it is you're after. That's a possible checkmate position, to me.

    So -- is this a King and Queen War-Game?? I often feel like a Completely Ignorant Pawn!! Please remember that I am honestly modeling concepts and personalities which do NOT reflect who I am in "real-life". I might share some of the inclinations and biases -- but I don't behave like this in everyday life. What scares me is that the ease with which I model on this thread leads me to wonder if I might've been somewhat like this in previous lives. I'm honestly NOT channeling some nefarious entity. I don't do anything even remotely creepy. I might be channeling myself. Was it Lionhawk who spoke of channeling themselves?? I can't quite remember -- but I know it was someone on this forum who is no longer posting. Each of my posts are the same -- only different -- reflecting the concept of "Theme and Variations". I honestly keep feeling as though I was somehow set-up in this incarnation -- where every behavior and editorial-slant would be somehow used against me -- with the general theme of Build Them Up -- and Knock Them Down.

    It's your reaction, to feel an accusation and you seem stuck in it. You're as much trying to live up to expectations of your audience as dictating your rules how the audience should listen. I think that you're in one of the most patient and kind forum here, with many members, including me, communicating with you in an open-minded way and with good intentions.

    I can't dictate Rules of Listening. What Would Julian Treasure Say?? I can't even get others to listen. Period. This is a highly tolerant forum -- but I often feel as if I am silently being fed enough rope to hang myself (which I seem to be effectively and efficiently doing each and every day). I seem to be somehow protected -- while I continue to destroy myself. I guess I keep thinking that if I am never built-up -- it is more difficult to knock me down. This whole thing is frankly a Most Dangerous Game to me. It's so sad -- that it's almost funny...

    I don't choose to belittle you or your thread, or display a smiling face, at the same time shaking my head inside. Some may do that here, to sort of please you. That's not helping, does it? Many of those who read your thread, have shown you they appreciate your presence here and (maybe with some difficulty) also your thread. You are not your thread, see? That's where the sting is present, or so it seems. I feel a sameness in your trying hard and my trying hard, in a way.

    Forgive me for repeating this -- but you often remind me of "Angela" in that 1978 movie "The Word" (which sends chills up and down my spine). That's actually a compliment. I honestly feel like a sci-fi script-writer. Decades ago, I spoke with a very famous Hollywood-Director's Stepmother about wishing for "someone" to create a High-Tech Science-Fictional "Life of Christ" Based Upon The Desire of Ages by Ellen White. Honest. She spoke of her stepson being fearful. Now I think I understand why -- based upon which movies were being made at that time -- and what I know now.

    There's an obstacle between people's minds present here, reading your thread and yours presenting food for thought in it. So far, you don't receive what you're aiming at, that's made clear by you. To me, it seems that somewhere there's an opinion put on ice. My efforts to clarify or understand, may prove that "never the twain shall meet." That opinion on ice, or a prefixed idea, may be in the mind of the readers, in my mind also, for I truly find it hard to follow, where your mind goes, or is, ortho.

    I have repeatedly stated that this thread merely scratches the surface. I could make this MUCH more complex and graphic. I've been around highly-educated English and Australian Theologians and Preachers -- and it's quite humbling -- and even a bit creepy. Some of you know what I'm talking about. This thread is sort of Gizeh-Intelligence for the Rest of Us!!

    Can we meet halfway? That could work maybe....... I think  Wink  I'm honestly thinking out loud, to myself mainly, sharing it here with a purpose, if you can get that. Is making sense done by thinking? Is humour a way to bypass the trap of absolute truth and perfection? When is an answer given that is also received as an answer?

    Perhaps. I'm honestly attempting to understand what Genuine Fundamentalist Biblical Theology in the Context of Ancient and Modern Science-Fiction really looks like. My starting-point is that Everyone is Right -- and Everyone is Wrong -- which makes everyone angry and indignant. Irreverent-Humor seems to be destroying me -- little by little -- yet it seems to serve a utilitarian-purpose presently -- so I shall continue to crucify myself. We all have our crosses to bear -- don't we?? Orthodoxymoron or Wave of the Future?? Time Will Tell -- as it always does...

    Tim Minchin's Storm the Animated Movie

    To me, this is a delicious merging of instinctual view and overview. Those 2 views are meant to be made aware in one moment, as I see it, in a positive "the twain shall meet".

    I learned "Combining-Opposites" from Shirley Maclaine. I knew a Hollywood-Insider who told me that Shirley seemed to be lost in deep-thought when not on stage. Once -- while inside a major television-studio -- as I watched a rehearsal -- I noticed one particular individual who sat motionless and transfixed in front of the stage -- watching intently and silently -- with total-concentration. That made a deep impression on me. I honestly aspire to be that sort of person (regarding life, the universe, and everything). BTW -- I recently encountered an Individual of Interest who seemed to NOT like me one little bit -- and I think I might know why...

    "The mind…  can make a heaven of hell, a hell of heaven" ― John Milton

    Some of us seem to be "Making Heaven Into Hell" while others of us seem to be "Making Hell Into Heaven". What if CERN will somehow merge Heaven and Hell into some sort of an Eschatological Final-Jihad?? The Horror. I equate "Mind" with "Character" -- which we apparently take with us when we die. Who says "You Can't Take It With You"??

    "Oxy -- You Need to Learn Your Place in the Great Scheme of Things..."

    Last edited by orthodoxymoron on Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:39 am; edited 2 times in total

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    Re: The United States of the Solar System: A.D. 2133 (Book One)

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Sat Mar 28, 2015 2:40 pm

    B.B.Baghor wrote: ortho, I hear you clearly, though this may be of not much help, for to me, you seem a bit far out... of hearing distance. It's hard to follow you, but you make yourself heard alright! It seems your mind is so much in turmoil, that it's hard for you to discern your own voice, not the one shouting here. If I may say this, we all long for this....... being heard. For crying out loud!!! It's our birthright, to be valued through our lives. In the first seconds of our life, we make ourselves heard, we cannot do otherwise. For what it's worth to you, ortho, for truth is.... showing new faces each day, these days, or so it seems, maybe that's why what you're looking for seems to be elusive to you, I believe that we need to listen to our own voice first, from within. The one who's patiently waiting for you, me, us,  to shut up and listen. For a change.
    Thank-you B.B. I have been accused (over and over and over again) of saying the same thing (over and over and over again) and not listening to others (and/or not working with them). When I create a thread which is mostly the work of others -- and mostly not judged by me -- I am told that I'm confused -- lost -- hard to follow -- etc. This is all about Not Getting Fooled Again!!

    BTW -- Imagine a religion consisting of nothing more (or less) than the Bach B-Minor Mass and Job through Isaiah (KJV)!! You know -- just have the entire congregation perform the Bach B-Minor Mass (any day of the week -- or all days of the week) -- and privately read Job through Isaiah (straight-through -- over and over).

    The burden of Moab. Because in the night Ar of Moab is laid waste , and brought to silence ; because in the night Kir of Moab is laid waste , and brought to silence ;  2 He is gone up to Bajith, and to Dibon, the high places, to weep: Moab shall howl over Nebo, and over Medeba: on all their heads shall be baldness, and every beard cut off .  3 In their streets they shall gird themselves with sackcloth: on the tops of their houses, and in their streets, every one shall howl , weeping abundantly .  4 And Heshbon shall cry , and Elealeh: their voice shall be heard even unto Jahaz: therefore the armed soldiers of Moab shall cry out ; his life shall be grievous unto him.  5 My heart shall cry out for Moab; his fugitives shall flee unto Zoar, an heifer of three years old: for by the mounting up of Luhith with weeping shall they go it up ; for in the way of Horonaim they shall raise up a cry of destruction.  6 For the waters of Nimrim shall be desolate: for the hay is withered away , the grass faileth , there is no green thing.  7 Therefore the abundance they have gotten , and that which they have laid up, shall they carry away to the brook of the willows.  8 For the cry is gone round about the borders of Moab; the howling thereof unto Eglaim, and the howling thereof unto Beerelim.  9 For the waters of Dimon shall be full of blood: for I will bring more upon Dimon, lions upon him that escapeth of Moab, and upon the remnant of the land.

    Send ye the lamb to the ruler of the land from Sela to the wilderness, unto the mount of the daughter of Zion.  2 For it shall be, that, as a wandering bird cast out of the nest, so the daughters of Moab shall be at the fords of Arnon.  3 Take counsel, execute judgment; make thy shadow as the night in the midst of the noonday; hide the outcasts ; bewray not him that wandereth .  4 Let mine outcasts dwell with thee, Moab; be thou a covert to them from the face of the spoiler : for the extortioner is at an end , the spoiler ceaseth , the oppressors are consumed out of the land.  5 And in mercy shall the throne be established : and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging , and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness.  6 We have heard of the pride of Moab; he is very proud: even of his haughtiness, and his pride, and his wrath: but his lies shall not be so.  7 Therefore shall Moab howl for Moab, every one shall howl : for the foundations of Kirhareseth shall ye mourn ; surely they are stricken.  8 For the fields of Heshbon languish , and the vine of Sibmah: the lords of the heathen have broken down the principal plants thereof, they are come even unto Jazer, they wandered through the wilderness: her branches are stretched out , they are gone over the sea.  9 Therefore I will bewail with the weeping of Jazer the vine of Sibmah: I will water thee with my tears, O Heshbon, and Elealeh: for the shouting for thy summer fruits and for thy harvest is fallen .  10 And gladness is taken away , and joy out of the plentiful field; and in the vineyards there shall be no singing , neither shall there be shouting : the treaders shall tread out no wine in their presses; I have made their vintage shouting to cease .  11 Wherefore my bowels shall sound like an harp for Moab, and mine inward parts for Kirharesh.  12 And it shall come to pass, when it is seen that Moab is weary on the high place, that he shall come to his sanctuary to pray ; but he shall not prevail .  13 This is the word that the LORD hath spoken concerning Moab since that time.  14 But now the LORD hath spoken , saying , Within three years, as the years of an hireling, and the glory of Moab shall be contemned , with all that great multitude; and the remnant shall be very small and feeble .

    The burden of Damascus. Behold, Damascus is taken away from being a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap.  2 The cities of Aroer are forsaken : they shall be for flocks, which shall lie down , and none shall make them afraid .  3 The fortress also shall cease from Ephraim, and the kingdom from Damascus, and the remnant of Syria: they shall be as the glory of the children of Israel, saith the LORD of hosts.  4 And in that day it shall come to pass, that the glory of Jacob shall be made thin , and the fatness of his flesh shall wax lean .  5 And it shall be as when the harvestman gathereth the corn, and reapeth the ears with his arm; and it shall be as he that gathereth ears in the valley of Rephaim.  6 Yet gleaning grapes shall be left in it, as the shaking of an olive tree, two or three berries in the top of the uppermost bough, four or five in the outmost fruitful branches thereof, saith the LORD God of Israel.  7 At that day shall a man look to his Maker , and his eyes shall have respect to the Holy One of Israel.  8 And he shall not look to the altars, the work of his hands, neither shall respect that which his fingers have made , either the groves, or the images.  9 In that day shall his strong cities be as a forsaken bough, and an uppermost branch, which they left because of the children of Israel: and there shall be desolation.  10 Because thou hast forgotten the God of thy salvation, and hast not been mindful of the rock of thy strength, therefore shalt thou plant pleasant plants, and shalt set it with strange slips:  11 In the day shalt thou make thy plant to grow , and in the morning shalt thou make thy seed to flourish : but the harvest shall be a heap in the day of grief and of desperate sorrow.  12 Woe to the multitude of many people, which make a noise like the noise of the seas; and to the rushing of nations, that make a rushing like the rushing of mighty waters!  13 The nations shall rush like the rushing of many waters: but God shall rebuke them, and they shall flee far off, and shall be chased as the chaff of the mountains before the wind, and like a rolling thing before the whirlwind.  14 And behold at eveningtide  trouble; and before the morning he is not. This is the portion of them that spoil us, and the lot of them that rob us.

    Woe to the land shadowing with wings, which is beyond the rivers of Ethiopia:  2 That sendeth ambassadors by the sea, even in vessels of bulrushes upon the waters, saying, Go , ye swift messengers, to a nation scattered and peeled , to a people terrible from their beginning hitherto; a nation meted out and trodden down, whose land the rivers have spoiled !  3 All ye inhabitants of the world, and dwellers on the earth, see ye, when he lifteth up an ensign on the mountains; and when he bloweth a trumpet, hear ye.  4 For so the LORD said unto me, I will take my rest , and I will consider in my dwelling place like a clear heat upon herbs, and like a cloud of dew in the heat of harvest.  5 For afore the harvest, when the bud is perfect , and the sour grape is ripening in the flower, he shall both cut off the sprigs with pruning hooks, and take away and cut down the branches.  6 They shall be left together unto the fowls of the mountains, and to the beasts of the earth: and the fowls shall summer upon them, and all the beasts of the earth shall winter upon them.  7 In that time shall the present be brought unto the LORD of hosts of a people scattered and peeled , and from a people terrible from their beginning hitherto; a nation meted out and trodden under foot, whose land the rivers have spoiled , to the place of the name of the LORD of hosts, the mount Zion.

    The burden of Egypt. Behold, the LORD rideth upon a swift cloud, and shall come into Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall be moved at his presence, and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it.  2 And I will set the Egyptians against the Egyptians: and they shall fight every one against his brother, and every one against his neighbour; city against city, and kingdom against kingdom.  3 And the spirit of Egypt shall fail in the midst thereof; and I will destroy the counsel thereof: and they shall seek to the idols, and to the charmers, and to them that have familiar spirits, and to the wizards.  4 And the Egyptians will I give over into the hand of a cruel lord; and a fierce king shall rule over them, saith the Lord, the LORD of hosts.  5 And the waters shall fail from the sea, and the river shall be wasted and dried up .  6 And they shall turn the rivers far away ; and the brooks of defence shall be emptied and dried up : the reeds and flags shall wither .  7 The paper reeds by the brooks, by the mouth of the brooks, and every thing sown by the brooks, shall wither , be driven away , and be no more.  8 The fishers also shall mourn , and all they that cast angle into the brooks shall lament , and they that spread nets upon the waters shall languish .  9 Moreover they that work in fine flax, and they that weave networks, shall be confounded .  10 And they shall be broken in the purposes thereof, all that make sluices and ponds for fish.  11 Surely the princes of Zoan are fools, the counsel of the wise counsellors of Pharaoh is become brutish : how say ye unto Pharaoh, I am the son of the wise, the son of ancient kings?  12 Where are they? where are thy wise men? and let them tell thee now, and let them know what the LORD of hosts hath purposed upon Egypt.  13 The princes of Zoan are become fools , the princes of Noph are deceived ; they have also seduced Egypt, even they that are the stay of the tribes thereof.  14 The LORD hath mingled a perverse spirit in the midst thereof: and they have caused Egypt to err in every work thereof, as a drunken man staggereth in his vomit.  15 Neither shall there be any work for Egypt, which the head or tail, branch or rush, may do .  16 In that day shall Egypt be like unto women: and it shall be afraid and fear because of the shaking of the hand of the LORD of hosts, which he shaketh over it.  17 And the land of Judah shall be a terror unto Egypt, every one that maketh mention thereof shall be afraid in himself, because of the counsel of the LORD of hosts, which he hath determined against it.  18 In that day shall five cities in the land of Egypt speak the language of Canaan, and swear to the LORD of hosts; one shall be called , The city of destruction.  19 In that day shall there be an altar to the LORD in the midst of the land of Egypt, and a pillar at the border thereof to the LORD.  20 And it shall be for a sign and for a witness unto the LORD of hosts in the land of Egypt: for they shall cry unto the LORD because of the oppressors , and he shall send them a saviour , and a great one, and he shall deliver them.  21 And the LORD shall be known to Egypt, and the Egyptians shall know the LORD in that day, and shall do sacrifice and oblation; yea, they shall vow a vow unto the LORD, and perform it.  22 And the LORD shall smite Egypt: he shall smite and heal it: and they shall return even to the LORD, and he shall be intreated of them, and shall heal them.  23 In that day shall there be a highway out of Egypt to Assyria, and the Assyrian shall come into Egypt, and the Egyptian into Assyria, and the Egyptians shall serve with the Assyrians.  24 In that day shall Israel be the third with Egypt and with Assyria, even a blessing in the midst of the land:  25 Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless , saying , Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritance.

    In the year that Tartan came unto Ashdod, (when Sargon the king of Assyria sent him,) and fought against Ashdod, and took it;  2 At the same time spake the LORD by Isaiah the son of Amoz, saying , Go and loose the sackcloth from off thy loins, and put off thy shoe from thy foot. And he did so , walking naked and barefoot.  3 And the LORD said , Like as my servant Isaiah hath walked naked and barefoot three years for a sign and wonder upon Egypt and upon Ethiopia;  4 So shall the king of Assyria lead away the Egyptians prisoners, and the Ethiopians captives, young and old, naked and barefoot, even with their buttocks uncovered , to the shame of Egypt.  5 And they shall be afraid and ashamed of Ethiopia their expectation, and of Egypt their glory.  6 And the inhabitant of this isle shall say in that day, Behold, such is our expectation, whither we flee for help to be delivered from the king of Assyria: and how shall we escape?

    The burden of the desert of the sea. As whirlwinds in the south pass through; so it cometh from the desert, from a terrible land.  2 A grievous vision is declared unto me; the treacherous dealer dealeth treacherously , and the spoiler spoileth . Go up , O Elam: besiege , O Media; all the sighing thereof have I made to cease .  3 Therefore are my loins filled with pain: pangs have taken hold upon me, as the pangs of a woman that travaileth : I was bowed down at the hearing of it; I was dismayed at the seeing of it.  4 My heart panted , fearfulness affrighted me: the night of my pleasure hath he turned into fear unto me.  5 Prepare the table, watch in the watchtower, eat , drink : arise , ye princes, and anoint the shield.  6 For thus hath the Lord said unto me, Go , set a watchman , let him declare what he seeth .  7 And he saw a chariot with a couple of horsemen, a chariot of asses, and a chariot of camels; and he hearkened diligently with much heed:  8 And he cried , A lion: My lord, I stand continually upon the watchtower in the daytime, and I am set in my ward whole nights:  9 And, behold, here cometh a chariot of men, with a couple of horsemen. And he answered and said , Babylon is fallen , is fallen ; and all the graven images of her gods he hath broken unto the ground.  10 O my threshing, and the corn of my floor: that which I have heard of the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, have I declared unto you.  11 The burden of Dumah. He calleth to me out of Seir, Watchman , what of the night? Watchman , what of the night?  12 The watchman said , The morning cometh , and also the night: if ye will enquire , enquire ye: return , come .  13 The burden upon Arabia. In the forest in Arabia shall ye lodge , O ye travelling companies of Dedanim.  14 The inhabitants of the land of Tema brought water to him that was thirsty, they prevented with their bread him that fled .  15 For they fled from the swords, from the drawn sword, and from the bent bow, and from the grievousness of war.  16 For thus hath the Lord said unto me, Within a year, according to the years of an hireling, and all the glory of Kedar shall fail :  17 And the residue of the number of archers, the mighty men of the children of Kedar, shall be diminished : for the LORD God of Israel hath spoken it.

    The burden of the valley of vision. What aileth thee now, that thou art wholly gone up to the housetops?  2 Thou that art full of stirs, a tumultuous city, a joyous city: thy slain men are not slain with the sword, nor dead in battle.  3 All thy rulers are fled together, they are bound by the archers: all that are found in thee are bound together, which have fled from far.  4 Therefore said I, Look away from me; I will weep bitterly , labour not to comfort me, because of the spoiling of the daughter of my people.  5 For it is a day of trouble, and of treading down, and of perplexity by the Lord GOD of hosts in the valley of vision, breaking down the walls, and of crying to the mountains.  6 And Elam bare the quiver with chariots of men and horsemen, and Kir uncovered the shield.  7 And it shall come to pass, that thy choicest valleys shall be full of chariots, and the horsemen shall set themselves in array at the gate.  8 And he discovered the covering of Judah, and thou didst look in that day to the armour of the house of the forest.  9 Ye have seen also the breaches of the city of David, that they are many : and ye gathered together the waters of the lower pool.  10 And ye have numbered the houses of Jerusalem, and the houses have ye broken down to fortify the wall.  11 Ye made also a ditch between the two walls for the water of the old pool: but ye have not looked unto the maker thereof, neither had respect unto him that fashioned it long ago.  12 And in that day did the Lord GOD of hosts call to weeping, and to mourning, and to baldness, and to girding with sackcloth:  13 And behold joy and gladness, slaying oxen, and killing sheep, eating flesh, and drinking wine: let us eat and drink ; for to morrow we shall die .  14 And it was revealed in mine ears by the LORD of hosts, Surely this iniquity shall not be purged from you till ye die , saith the Lord GOD of hosts.  15 Thus saith the Lord GOD of hosts, Go , get thee unto this treasurer , even unto Shebna, which is over the house, and say,  16 What hast thou here? and whom hast thou here, that thou hast hewed thee out a sepulchre here, as he that heweth him out a sepulchre on high, and that graveth an habitation for himself in a rock?  17 Behold, the LORD will carry thee away with a mighty captivity, and will surely cover thee.  18 He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball into a large  country: there shalt thou die , and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house.  19 And I will drive thee from thy station, and from thy state shall he pull thee down .  20 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will call my servant Eliakim the son of Hilkiah:  21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.  22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open , and none shall shut ; and he shall shut , and none shall open .  23 And I will fasten him as a nail in a sure place; and he shall be for a glorious throne to his father's house.  24 And they shall hang upon him all the glory of his father's house, the offspring and the issue, all vessels of small quantity, from the vessels of cups, even to all the vessels of flagons.  25 In that day, saith the LORD of hosts, shall the nail that is fastened in the sure place be removed , and be cut down , and fall ; and the burden that was upon it shall be cut off : for the LORD hath spoken it.

    The burden of Tyre. Howl , ye ships of Tarshish; for it is laid waste , so that there is no house, no entering in : from the land of Chittim it is revealed to them.  2 Be still , ye inhabitants of the isle; thou whom the merchants of Zidon, that pass over the sea, have replenished .  3 And by great waters the seed of Sihor, the harvest of the river, is her revenue; and she is a mart of nations.  4 Be thou ashamed , O Zidon: for the sea hath spoken , even the strength of the sea, saying , I travail not, nor bring forth children , neither do I nourish up young men, nor bring up virgins.  5 As at the report concerning Egypt, so shall they be sorely pained at the report of Tyre.  6 Pass ye over to Tarshish; howl , ye inhabitants of the isle.  7 Is this your joyous city, whose antiquity is of ancient days? her own feet shall carry her afar off to sojourn .  8 Who hath taken this counsel against Tyre, the crowning city, whose merchants are princes, whose traffickers are the honourable of the earth?  9 The LORD of hosts hath purposed it, to stain the pride of all glory, and to bring into contempt all the honourable of the earth.  10 Pass through thy land as a river, O daughter of Tarshish: there is no more strength.  11 He stretched out his hand over the sea, he shook the kingdoms: the LORD hath given a commandment against the merchant city, to destroy the strong holds thereof.  12 And he said , Thou shalt no more rejoice , O thou oppressed virgin, daughter of Zidon: arise , pass over to Chittim; there also shalt thou have no rest .  13 Behold the land of the Chaldeans; this people was not, till the Assyrian founded it for them that dwell in the wilderness: they set up the towers thereof, they raised up the palaces thereof; and he brought it to ruin.  14 Howl , ye ships of Tarshish: for your strength is laid waste .  15 And it shall come to pass in that day, that Tyre shall be forgotten seventy years, according to the days of one king: after the end of seventy years shall Tyre sing as an harlot .  16 Take an harp, go about the city, thou harlot that hast been forgotten ; make sweet melody , sing many songs, that thou mayest be remembered .  17 And it shall come to pass after the end of seventy years, that the LORD will visit Tyre, and she shall turn to her hire, and shall commit fornication with all the kingdoms of the world upon the face of the earth.  18 And her merchandise and her hire shall be holiness to the LORD: it shall not be treasured nor laid up ; for her merchandise shall be for them that dwell before the LORD, to eat sufficiently, and for durable clothing.

    Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty , and maketh it waste , and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof.  2 And it shall be, as with the people, so with the priest; as with the servant, so with his master; as with the maid, so with her mistress; as with the buyer , so with the seller ; as with the lender , so with the borrower ; as with the taker of usury , so with the giver of usury to him.  3 The land shall be utterly emptied , and utterly spoiled : for the LORD hath spoken this word.  4 The earth mourneth and fadeth away , the world languisheth and fadeth away , the haughty people of the earth do languish .  5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.  6 Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate : therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned , and few men left .  7 The new wine mourneth , the vine languisheth , all the merryhearted do sigh .  8 The mirth of tabrets ceaseth , the noise of them that rejoice endeth , the joy of the harp ceaseth .  9 They shall not drink wine with a song; strong drink shall be bitter to them that drink it.  10 The city of confusion is broken down : every house is shut up , that no man may come in .  11 There is a crying for wine in the streets; all joy is darkened , the mirth of the land is gone .  12 In the city is left desolation, and the gate is smitten with destruction.  13 When thus it shall be in the midst of the land among the people, there shall be as the shaking of an olive tree, and as the gleaning grapes when the vintage is done .  14 They shall lift up their voice, they shall sing for the majesty of the LORD, they shall cry aloud from the sea.  15 Wherefore glorify ye the LORD in the fires, even the name of the LORD God of Israel in the isles of the sea.  16 From the uttermost part of the earth have we heard songs, even glory to the righteous. But I said , My leanness, my leanness, woe unto me! the treacherous dealers have dealt treacherously ; yea, the treacherous dealers have dealt very treacherously .  17 Fear, and the pit, and the snare, are upon thee, O inhabitant of the earth.  18 And it shall come to pass, that he who fleeth from the noise of the fear shall fall into the pit; and he that cometh up out of the midst of the pit shall be taken in the snare: for the windows from on high are open , and the foundations of the earth do shake .  19 The earth is utterly broken down , the earth is clean dissolved , the earth is moved exceedingly .  20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall , and not rise again .  21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.  22 And they shall be gathered together , as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited .  23 Then the moon shall be confounded , and the sun ashamed , when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.

    O LORD, thou art my God; I will exalt thee, I will praise thy name; for thou hast done wonderful things; thy counsels of old are faithfulness and truth.  2 For thou hast made of a city an heap; of a defenced city a ruin: a palace of strangers to be no city; it shall never be built .  3 Therefore shall the strong people glorify thee, the city of the terrible nations shall fear thee.  4 For thou hast been a strength to the poor, a strength to the needy in his distress, a refuge from the storm, a shadow from the heat, when the blast of the terrible ones is as a storm against the wall.  5 Thou shalt bring down the noise of strangers , as the heat in a dry place; even the heat with the shadow of a cloud: the branch of the terrible ones shall be brought low .  6 And in this mountain shall the LORD of hosts make unto all people a feast of fat things, a feast of wines on the lees, of fat things full of marrow , of wines on the lees well refined .  7 And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations.  8 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.  9 And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this is the LORD; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation.  10 For in this mountain shall the hand of the LORD rest , and Moab shall be trodden down under him, even as straw is trodden down for the dunghill   .  11 And he shall spread forth his hands in the midst of them, as he that swimmeth spreadeth forth his hands to swim : and he shall bring down their pride together with the spoils of their hands.  12 And the fortress of the high fort of thy walls shall he bring down , lay low , and bring to the ground, even to the dust.

    In that day shall this song be sung in the land of Judah; We have a strong city; salvation will God appoint for walls and bulwarks.  2 Open ye the gates, that the righteous nation which keepeth the truth may enter in .  3 Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee.  4 Trust ye in the LORD for ever: for in the LORD JEHOVAH is everlasting strength:  5 For he bringeth down them that dwell on high; the lofty city, he layeth it low ; he layeth it low , even to the ground; he bringeth it even to the dust.  6 The foot shall tread it down , even the feet of the poor, and the steps of the needy.  7 The way of the just is uprightness: thou, most upright, dost weigh the path of the just.  8 Yea, in the way of thy judgments, O LORD, have we waited for thee; the desire of our soul is to thy name, and to the remembrance of thee.  9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early : for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.  10 Let favour be shewed to the wicked, yet will he not learn righteousness: in the land of uprightness will he deal unjustly , and will not behold the majesty of the LORD.  11 LORD, when thy hand is lifted up , they will not see : but they shall see , and be ashamed for their envy at the people; yea, the fire of thine enemies shall devour them.  12 LORD, thou wilt ordain peace for us: for thou also hast wrought all our works in us.   13 O LORD our God, other lords beside thee have had dominion over us: but by thee only will we make mention of thy name.  14 They are dead , they shall not live ; they are deceased, they shall not rise : therefore hast thou visited and destroyed them, and made all their memory to perish .  15 Thou hast increased the nation, O LORD, thou hast increased the nation: thou art glorified : thou hadst removed it far unto all the ends of the earth.  16 LORD, in trouble have they visited thee, they poured out a prayer when thy chastening was upon them.  17 Like as a woman with child, that draweth near the time of her delivery , is in pain , and crieth out in her pangs; so have we been in thy sight, O LORD.  18 We have been with child , we have been in pain , we have as it were brought forth wind; we have not wrought any deliverance in the earth; neither have the inhabitants of the world fallen .  19 Thy dead men shall live , together with my dead body shall they arise . Awake and sing , ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.  20 Come , my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast .  21 For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

    In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.  2 In that day sing ye unto her, A vineyard of red wine  .  3 I the LORD do keep it; I will water it every moment: lest any hurt it, I will keep it night and day.  4 Fury is not in me: who would set the briers and thorns against me in battle? I would go through them, I would burn them together.  5 Or let him take hold of my strength, that he may make peace with me; and he shall make peace with me.  6 He shall cause them that come of Jacob to take root : Israel shall blossom and bud , and fill the face of the world with fruit.  7 Hath he smitten him, as he smote those that smote him? or is he slain according to the slaughter of them that are slain by him?  8 In measure, when it shooteth forth , thou wilt debate with it: he stayeth his rough wind in the day of the east wind.  9 By this therefore shall the iniquity of Jacob be purged ; and this is all the fruit to take away his sin; when he maketh all the stones of the altar as chalkstones that are beaten in sunder , the groves and images shall not stand up .  10 Yet the defenced city shall be desolate, and the habitation forsaken , and left like a wilderness: there shall the calf feed , and there shall he lie down , and consume the branches thereof.  11 When the boughs thereof are withered , they shall be broken off : the women come , and set them on fire : for it is a people of no understanding: therefore he that made them will not have mercy on them, and he that formed them will shew them no favour .  12 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall beat off from the channel of the river unto the stream of Egypt, and ye shall be gathered one by one, O ye children of Israel.  13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the great trumpet shall be blown , and they shall come which were ready to perish in the land of Assyria, and the outcasts in the land of Egypt, and shall worship the LORD in the holy mount at Jerusalem.

    Woe to the crown of pride, to the drunkards of Ephraim, whose glorious beauty is a fading flower, which are on the head of the fat valleys of them that are overcome with wine!  2 Behold, the Lord hath a mighty and strong one, which as a tempest of hail and a destroying storm, as a flood of mighty waters overflowing , shall cast down to the earth with the hand.  3 The crown of pride, the drunkards of Ephraim, shall be trodden under feet:  4 And the glorious beauty, which is on the head of the fat valley, shall be a fading flower, and as the hasty fruit before the summer; which when he that looketh upon it seeth , while it is yet in his hand he eateth it up .  5 In that day shall the LORD of hosts be for a crown of glory, and for a diadem of beauty, unto the residue of his people,  6 And for a spirit of judgment to him that sitteth in judgment, and for strength to them that turn the battle to the gate.  7 But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way ; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.  8 For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean.  9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.  10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:  11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.  12 To whom he said , This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest ; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear .  13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go , and fall backward, and be broken , and snared , and taken .  14 Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.  

    Because ye have said , We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge  shall pass through , it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:  16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste .  17 Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.  18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled , and your agreement with hell shall not stand ; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through , then ye shall be trodden down by it.  19 From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over , by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report.  20 For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it: and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it.  21 For the LORD shall rise up as in mount Perazim, he shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that he may do his work, his strange work; and bring to pass his act, his strange act.  22 Now therefore be ye not mockers , lest your bands be made strong : for I have heard from the Lord GOD of hosts a consumption, even determined upon the whole earth.  23 Give ye ear , and hear my voice; hearken , and hear my speech.  24 Doth the plowman plow all day to sow ? doth he open and break the clods of his ground?  25 When he hath made plain the face thereof, doth he not cast abroad the fitches, and scatter the cummin, and cast in the principal wheat and the appointed barley and the rie in their place?  26 For his God doth instruct him to discretion, and doth teach him.  27 For the fitches are not threshed with a threshing instrument, neither is a cart wheel turned about upon the cummin; but the fitches are beaten out with a staff, and the cummin with a rod.  28 Bread corn is bruised ; because he will not ever be threshing  it, nor break it with the wheel of his cart, nor bruise it with his horsemen.  29 This also cometh forth from the LORD of hosts, which is wonderful in counsel, and excellent in working.

    Woe to Ariel, to Ariel, the city where David dwelt ! add ye year to year; let them kill sacrifices.  2 Yet I will distress Ariel, and there shall be heaviness and sorrow: and it shall be unto me as Ariel.  3 And I will camp against thee round about, and will lay siege against thee with a mount, and I will raise forts against thee.  4 And thou shalt be brought down , and shalt speak out of the ground, and thy speech shall be low out of the dust, and thy voice shall be, as of one that hath a familiar spirit, out of the ground, and thy speech shall whisper out of the dust.  5 Moreover the multitude of thy strangers shall be like small dust, and the multitude of the terrible ones shall be as chaff that passeth away : yea, it shall be at an instant suddenly.  6 Thou shalt be visited of the LORD of hosts with thunder, and with earthquake, and great noise, with storm and tempest, and the flame of devouring fire.  7 And the multitude of all the nations that fight against Ariel, even all that fight against her and her munition, and that distress her, shall be as a dream of a night vision.  8 It shall even be as when an hungry man dreameth , and, behold, he eateth ; but he awaketh , and his soul is empty: or as when a thirsty man dreameth , and, behold, he drinketh ; but he awaketh , and, behold, he is faint, and his soul hath appetite : so shall the multitude of all the nations be, that fight against mount Zion.  9 Stay yourselves, and wonder ; cry ye out , and cry : they are drunken , but not with wine; they stagger , but not with strong drink.  10 For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered .  11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed , which men deliver to one that is learned , saying , Read this, I pray thee: and he saith , I cannot ; for it is sealed :  12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned  , saying , Read this, I pray thee: and he saith , I am not learned .  13 Wherefore the Lord said , Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:  14 Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish , and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid .  15 Woe unto them that seek deep to hide their counsel from the LORD, and their works are in the dark, and they say , Who seeth us? and who knoweth us?  16 Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding ?  17 Is it not yet a very little while, and Lebanon shall be turned into a fruitful field, and the fruitful field shall be esteemed as a forest?  18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.  19 The meek also shall increase their joy in the LORD, and the poor among men shall rejoice in the Holy One of Israel.  20 For the terrible one is brought to nought , and the scorner is consumed , and all that watch for iniquity are cut off :  21 That make a man an offender for a word, and lay a snare for him that reproveth in the gate, and turn aside the just for a thing of nought.  22 Therefore thus saith the LORD, who redeemed Abraham, concerning the house of Jacob, Jacob shall not now be ashamed , neither shall his face now wax pale .  23 But when he seeth his children, the work of mine hands, in the midst of him, they shall sanctify my name, and sanctify the Holy One of Jacob, and shall fear the God of Israel.  24 They also that erred in spirit shall come to understanding, and they that murmured shall learn doctrine.

    Woe to the rebellious children, saith the LORD, that take counsel, but not of me; and that cover with a covering, but not of my spirit, that they may add sin to sin:  2 That walk to go down into Egypt, and have not asked at my mouth; to strengthen themselves in the strength of Pharaoh, and to trust in the shadow of Egypt!  3 Therefore shall the strength of Pharaoh be your shame, and the trust in the shadow of Egypt your confusion.  4 For his princes were at Zoan, and his ambassadors came to Hanes.  5 They were all ashamed of a people that could not profit them, nor be an help nor profit , but a shame, and also a reproach.  6 The burden of the beasts of the south: into the land of trouble and anguish, from whence come the young and old lion, the viper and fiery flying serpent, they will carry their riches upon the shoulders of young asses, and their treasures upon the bunches of camels, to a people that shall not profit them.  7 For the Egyptians shall help in vain, and to no purpose: therefore have I cried concerning this, Their strength is to sit still.  8 Now go , write it before them in a table, and note it in a book, that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever:  9 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD:  10 Which say to the seers , See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:  11 Get you out of the way, turn aside out of the path, cause the Holy One of Israel to cease from before us.  12 Wherefore thus saith the Holy One of Israel, Because ye despise this word, and trust in oppression and perverseness , and stay thereon:  13 Therefore this iniquity shall be to you as a breach ready to fall , swelling out in a high wall, whose breaking cometh suddenly at an instant.  14 And he shall break it as the breaking of the potters ' vessel that is broken in pieces ; he shall not spare : so that there shall not be found in the bursting of it a sherd to take fire from the hearth , or to take water withal out of the pit.  15 For thus saith the Lord GOD, the Holy One of Israel; In returning and rest shall ye be saved ; in quietness and in confidence shall be your strength: and ye would not.  16 But ye said , No; for we will flee upon horses; therefore shall ye flee : and, We will ride upon the swift; therefore shall they that pursue you be swift.  

    One thousand shall flee at the rebuke of one; at the rebuke of five shall ye flee : till ye be left as a beacon upon the top of a mountain, and as an ensign on an hill.  18 And therefore will the LORD wait , that he may be gracious unto you, and therefore will he be exalted , that he may have mercy upon you: for the LORD is a God of judgment: blessed are all they that wait for him.  19 For the people shall dwell in Zion at Jerusalem: thou shalt weep no more : he will be very gracious unto thee at the voice of thy cry ; when he shall hear it, he will answer thee.  20 And though the Lord give you the bread of adversity, and the water of affliction, yet shall not thy teachers be removed into a corner any more, but thine eyes shall see thy teachers :  21 And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying , This is the way, walk ye in it , when ye turn to the right hand , and when ye turn to the left .  22 Ye shall defile also the covering of thy graven images of silver, and the ornament of thy molten images of gold: thou shalt cast them away as a menstruous cloth; thou shalt say unto it, Get thee hence .  23 Then shall he give the rain of thy seed, that thou shalt sow the ground withal; and bread of the increase of the earth, and it shall be fat and plenteous: in that day shall thy cattle feed in large pastures.  24 The oxen likewise and the young asses that ear the ground shall eat clean provender, which hath been winnowed with the shovel and with the fan.  25 And there shall be upon every high mountain, and upon every high hill, rivers and streams of waters in the day of the great slaughter, when the towers fall .  26 Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days, in the day that the LORD bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound.  27 Behold, the name of the LORD cometh from far, burning with his anger, and the burden thereof is heavy: his lips are full of indignation, and his tongue as a devouring fire:  28 And his breath, as an overflowing stream, shall reach to the midst of the neck, to sift the nations with the sieve of vanity: and there shall be a bridle in the jaws of the people, causing them to err .  29 Ye shall have a song, as in the night when a holy solemnity is kept ; and gladness of heart, as when one goeth with a pipe to come into the mountain of the LORD, to the mighty One of Israel.  30 And the LORD shall cause his glorious voice to be heard , and shall shew the lighting down of his arm, with the indignation of his anger, and with the flame of a devouring fire, with scattering, and tempest, and hailstones .  31 For through the voice of the LORD shall the Assyrian be beaten down , which smote with a rod.  32 And in every place where the grounded staff shall pass, which the LORD shall lay upon him, it shall be with tabrets and harps: and in battles of shaking will he fight with it.  33 For Tophet is ordained of old; yea, for the king it is prepared ; he hath made it deep and large : the pile thereof is fire and much wood; the breath of the LORD, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it.

    Woe to them that go down to Egypt for help; and stay on horses, and trust in chariots, because they are many; and in horsemen, because they are very strong ; but they look not unto the Holy One of Israel, neither seek the LORD!  2 Yet he also is wise, and will bring evil, and will not call back his words: but will arise against the house of the evildoers , and against the help of them that work iniquity.  3 Now the Egyptians are men, and not God; and their horses flesh, and not spirit. When the LORD shall stretch out his hand, both he that helpeth shall fall , and he that is holpen shall fall down , and they all shall fail together.  4 For thus hath the LORD spoken unto me, Like as the lion and the young lion roaring on his prey, when a multitude of shepherds is called forth against him, he will not be afraid of their voice, nor abase himself for the noise of them: so shall the LORD of hosts come down to fight for mount Zion, and for the hill thereof.  5 As birds flying , so will the LORD of hosts defend Jerusalem; defending also he will deliver it; and passing over he will preserve it.  6 Turn ye unto him from whom the children of Israel have deeply revolted.  7 For in that day every man shall cast away his idols of silver, and his idols of gold, which your own hands have made unto you for a sin.  8 Then shall the Assyrian fall with the sword, not of a mighty man; and the sword, not of a mean man, shall devour him: but he shall flee from the sword, and his young men shall be discomfited.  9 And he shall pass over to his strong hold for fear, and his princes shall be afraid of the ensign, saith the LORD, whose fire is in Zion, and his furnace in Jerusalem.

    Behold, a king shall reign in righteousness, and princes shall rule in judgment.  2 And a man shall be as an hiding place from the wind, and a covert from the tempest; as rivers of water in a dry place, as the shadow of a great rock in a weary land.  3 And the eyes of them that see shall not be dim , and the ears of them that hear shall hearken .  4 The heart also of the rash shall understand knowledge, and the tongue of the stammerers shall be ready to speak plainly.  5 The vile person shall be no more called liberal, nor the churl said to be bountiful.  6 For the vile person will speak villany, and his heart will work iniquity, to practise hypocrisy, and to utter error against the LORD, to make empty the soul of the hungry, and he will cause the drink of the thirsty to fail .  7 The instruments also of the churl are evil: he deviseth wicked devices to destroy the poor  with lying words, even when the needy speaketh right.  8 But the liberal deviseth liberal things; and by liberal things shall he stand .  9 Rise up , ye women that are at ease; hear my voice, ye careless daughters; give ear unto my speech.  10 Many days and years shall ye be troubled , ye careless women : for the vintage shall fail , the gathering shall not come .  11 Tremble , ye women that are at ease; be troubled , ye careless ones : strip you, and make you bare , and gird sackcloth upon your loins.  12 They shall lament for the teats, for the pleasant fields, for the fruitful vine.  13 Upon the land of my people shall come up thorns and briers; yea, upon all the houses of joy in the joyous city:  14 Because the palaces shall be forsaken ; the multitude of the city shall be left ; the forts and towers shall be for dens for ever, a joy of wild asses, a pasture of flocks;  15 Until the spirit be poured upon us from on high, and the wilderness be a fruitful field, and the fruitful field be counted for a forest.  16 Then judgment shall dwell in the wilderness, and righteousness remain in the fruitful field.  17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.  18 And my people shall dwell in a peaceable habitation, and in sure dwellings, and in quiet resting places;  19 When it shall hail , coming down on the forest; and the city shall be low in a low place.  20 Blessed are ye that sow beside all waters, that send forth thither the feet of the ox and the ass.

    Woe to thee that spoilest , and thou wast not spoiled ; and dealest treacherously , and they dealt not treacherously with thee! when thou shalt cease to spoil , thou shalt be spoiled ; and when thou shalt make an end to deal treacherously , they shall deal treacherously with thee.  2 O LORD, be gracious unto us; we have waited for thee: be thou their arm every morning, our salvation also in the time of trouble.  3 At the noise of the tumult the people fled ; at the lifting up of thyself the nations were scattered .  4 And your spoil shall be gathered like the gathering of the caterpiller: as the running to and fro of locusts shall he run upon them.  5 The LORD is exalted ; for he dwelleth on high: he hath filled Zion with judgment and righteousness.  6 And wisdom and knowledge shall be the stability of thy times, and strength of salvation: the fear of the LORD is his treasure.  7 Behold, their valiant ones shall cry without: the ambassadors of peace shall weep bitterly.  8 The highways lie waste , the wayfaring man  ceaseth : he hath broken the covenant, he hath despised the cities, he regardeth no man.  9 The earth mourneth and languisheth : Lebanon is ashamed and hewn down : Sharon is like a wilderness; and Bashan and Carmel shake off their fruits.  10 Now will I rise , saith the LORD; now will I be exalted ; now will I lift up myself.  11 Ye shall conceive chaff, ye shall bring forth stubble: your breath, as fire, shall devour you.  12 And the people shall be as the burnings of lime: as thorns cut up shall they be burned in the fire.  13 Hear , ye that are far off, what I have done ; and, ye that are near, acknowledge my might.  14 The sinners in Zion are afraid ; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?  15 He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;  16 He shall dwell on high: his place of defence shall be the munitions of rocks: bread shall be given him; his waters shall be sure .  17 Thine eyes shall see the king in his beauty: they shall behold the land that is very far off.  18 Thine heart shall meditate terror. Where is the scribe ? where is the receiver ? where is he that counted the towers?  19 Thou shalt not see a fierce people, a people of a deeper speech than thou canst perceive ; of a stammering tongue, that thou canst not understand.  20 Look upon Zion, the city of our solemnities: thine eyes shall see Jerusalem a quiet habitation, a tabernacle that shall not be taken down ; not one of the stakes thereof shall ever be removed , neither shall any of the cords thereof be broken .  21 But there the glorious LORD will be unto us a place of broad  rivers and streams; wherein shall go no galley with oars, neither shall gallant ship pass thereby.  22 For the LORD is our judge , the LORD is our lawgiver , the LORD is our king; he will save us.  23 Thy tacklings are loosed ; they could not well strengthen their mast, they could not spread the sail: then is the prey of a great spoil divided ; the lame take the prey.  24 And the inhabitant shall not say , I am sick : the people that dwell therein shall be forgiven their iniquity.

    Last edited by orthodoxymoron on Thu Nov 19, 2015 2:29 pm; edited 1 time in total

    Posts : 7824
    Join date : 2010-09-28

    Re: The United States of the Solar System: A.D. 2133 (Book One)

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Sat Mar 28, 2015 2:44 pm

    I try to provide a wide variety of posts -- despite accusations that I just keep saying the same things over and over again. On the other hand, if I were inconsistent, I would be accused of being confused and unstable. I frankly don't care what anyone thinks. I simply want everyone to think. Period.

    magamud wrote:Ya thats some living, thanks....
    Thank-you magamud. If everyone lived in similar circumstances -- with a combination of above-ground and below-ground dwellings and working-environments -- we all might be better-behaved. In this rat-race -- it seems as if the rats are winning. Nice guys and gals should never finish last. Perhaps we need to Reward Responsibility -- and Punish Irresponsibility. Perhaps we need to replace Free-Enterprise with Responsible-Enterprise. I'm so tired of the game I've played throughout my life (and especially during the past 3 or 4 years). I really wish to stop bitching -- and start living -- especially if very few are listening and appreciating. Being a Visionary-Hybrid is SO overrated. Perhaps the rebellious and recalcitrant goyim will simply have to learn the hard way. Babylon is falling -- that Great City -- because she made the nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication. Not one stone shall remain upon another. All is terror and confusion. Ashes to Ashes. Dust to Dust. The 'Whore of Babylon' babbles on and on and on and on and on. The First Shall be Last. The Last Shall be First. Embrace Kara Thrace. End of Line.

    Aquaries1111 wrote:Hi Oxy,

    I want you to know I am still reading you.. I am only on page 2 though of your beautiful path thread. I almost wish I had started the path the same time you did, I wouldn't feel so left behind then.. Okay I'll stop whinging.. I know, I know, we are multi-dimensional and what existed then also exists now.. so now is where I am to read.. so bee it..

    Your Bill Cooper link has sent me on a Bill Cooper download overload.. I need to get back to study and get back to page 2.. There's so much information I almost need to just close myself off and focus on your precious thread. I do know it's precious..

    magamud wrote:

    Come near , ye nations, to hear ; and hearken , ye people: let the earth hear , and all that is therein; the world, and all things that come forth of it. 2 For the indignation of the LORD is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter. 3 Their slain also shall be cast out , and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood. 4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved , and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down , as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree. 5 For my sword shall be bathed in heaven: behold, it shall come down upon Idumea, and upon the people of my curse, to judgment. 6 The sword of the LORD is filled with blood, it is made fat with fatness, and with the blood of lambs and goats, with the fat of the kidneys of rams: for the LORD hath a sacrifice in Bozrah, and a great slaughter in the land of Idumea. 7 And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness. 8 For it is the day of the LORD'S vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion. 9 And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch. 10 It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste ; none shall pass through it for ever and ever. 11 But the cormorant and the bittern shall possess it; the owl also and the raven shall dwell in it: and he shall stretch out upon it the line of confusion, and the stones of emptiness. 12 They shall call the nobles thereof to the kingdom, but none shall be there, and all her princes shall be nothing. 13 And thorns shall come up in her palaces, nettles and brambles in the fortresses thereof: and it shall be an habitation of dragons, and a court for owls . 14 The wild beasts of the desert shall also meet with the wild beasts of the island, and the satyr shall cry to his fellow; the screech owl also shall rest there, and find for herself a place of rest. 15 There shall the great owl make her nest , and lay , and hatch , and gather under her shadow: there shall the vultures also be gathered , every one with her mate. 16 Seek ye out of the book of the LORD, and read : no one of these shall fail , none shall want her mate: for my mouth it hath commanded , and his spirit it hath gathered them. 17 And he hath cast the lot for them, and his hand hath divided it unto them by line: they shall possess it for ever, from generation to generation shall they dwell therein.

    The wilderness and the solitary place shall be glad for them; and the desert shall rejoice , and blossom as the rose. 2 It shall blossom abundantly , and rejoice even with joy and singing : the glory of Lebanon shall be given unto it, the excellency of Carmel and Sharon, they shall see the glory of the LORD, and the excellency of our God. 3 Strengthen ye the weak hands, and confirm the feeble knees. 4 Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong , fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you. 5 Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened , and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped . 6 Then shall the lame man leap as an hart, and the tongue of the dumb sing : for in the wilderness shall waters break out , and streams in the desert. 7 And the parched ground shall become a pool, and the thirsty land springs of water: in the habitation of dragons, where each lay, shall be grass with reeds and rushes. 8 And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men , though fools, shall not err therein. 9 No lion shall be there, nor any ravenous beast shall go up thereon, it shall not be found there; but the redeemed shall walk there: 10 And the ransomed of the LORD shall return , and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads: they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away .

    Now it came to pass in the fourteenth year of king Hezekiah, that Sennacherib king of Assyria came up against all the defenced cities of Judah, and took them. 2 And the king of Assyria sent Rabshakeh from Lachish to Jerusalem unto king Hezekiah with a great army. And he stood by the conduit of the upper pool in the highway of the fuller's field. 3 Then came forth unto him Eliakim, Hilkiah's son, which was over the house, and Shebna the scribe , and Joah, Asaph's son, the recorder . 4 And Rabshakeh said unto them, Say ye now to Hezekiah, Thus saith the great king, the king of Assyria, What confidence is this wherein thou trustest ? 5 I say , sayest thou, (but they are but vain words) I have counsel and strength for war: now on whom dost thou trust , that thou rebellest against me? 6 Lo, thou trustest in the staff of this broken reed, on Egypt; whereon if a man lean , it will go into his hand, and pierce it: so is Pharaoh king of Egypt to all that trust in him. 7 But if thou say to me, We trust in the LORD our God: is it not he, whose high places and whose altars Hezekiah hath taken away , and said to Judah and to Jerusalem, Ye shall worship before this altar? 8 Now therefore give pledges , I pray thee, to my master the king of Assyria, and I will give thee two thousand horses, if thou be able on thy part to set riders upon them. 9 How then wilt thou turn away the face of one captain of the least of my master's servants, and put thy trust on Egypt for chariots and for horsemen? 10 And am I now come up without the LORD against this land to destroy it? the LORD said unto me, Go up against this land, and destroy it. 11 Then said Eliakim and Shebna and Joah unto Rabshakeh, Speak , I pray thee, unto thy servants in the Syrian language; for we understand it: and speak not to us in the Jews' language, in the ears of the people that are on the wall. 12 But Rabshakeh said , Hath my master sent me to thy master and to thee to speak these words? hath he not sent me to the men that sit upon the wall, that they may eat their own dung , and drink their own piss with you? 13 Then Rabshakeh stood , and cried with a loud voice in the Jews' language, and said , Hear ye the words of the great king, the king of Assyria. 14 Thus saith the king, Let not Hezekiah deceive you: for he shall not be able to deliver you. 15 Neither let Hezekiah make you trust in the LORD, saying , The LORD will surely deliver us: this city shall not be delivered into the hand of the king of Assyria. 16 Hearken not to Hezekiah: for thus saith the king of Assyria, Make an agreement with me by a present, and come out to me: and eat ye every one of his vine, and every one of his fig tree, and drink ye every one the waters of his own cistern; 17 Until I come and take you away to a land like your own land, a land of corn and wine, a land of bread and vineyards. 18 Beware lest Hezekiah persuade you, saying , The LORD will deliver us. Hath any of the gods of the nations delivered his land out of the hand of the king of Assyria? 19 Where are the gods of Hamath and Arphad? where are the gods of Sepharvaim? and have they delivered Samaria out of my hand? 20 Who are they among all the gods of these lands, that have delivered their land out of my hand, that the LORD should deliver Jerusalem out of my hand? 21 But they held their peace , and answered him not a word: for the king's commandment was, saying , Answer him not. 22 Then came Eliakim, the son of Hilkiah, that was over the household, and Shebna the scribe , and Joah, the son of Asaph, the recorder , to Hezekiah with their clothes rent , and told him the words of Rabshakeh.

    And it came to pass, when king Hezekiah heard it, that he rent his clothes, and covered himself with sackcloth, and went into the house of the LORD. 2 And he sent Eliakim, who was over the household, and Shebna the scribe , and the elders of the priests covered with sackcloth, unto Isaiah the prophet the son of Amoz. 3 And they said unto him, Thus saith Hezekiah, This day is a day of trouble, and of rebuke, and of blasphemy: for the children are come to the birth, and there is not strength to bring forth . 4 It may be the LORD thy God will hear the words of Rabshakeh, whom the king of Assyria his master hath sent to reproach the living God, and will reprove the words which the LORD thy God hath heard : wherefore lift up thy prayer for the remnant that is left . 5 So the servants of king Hezekiah came to Isaiah. 6 And Isaiah said unto them, Thus shall ye say unto your master, Thus saith the LORD, Be not afraid of the words that thou hast heard , wherewith the servants of the king of Assyria have blasphemed me. 7 Behold, I will send a blast upon him, and he shall hear a rumour, and return to his own land; and I will cause him to fall by the sword in his own land. 8 So Rabshakeh returned , and found the king of Assyria warring against Libnah: for he had heard that he was departed from Lachish. 9 And he heard say concerning Tirhakah king of Ethiopia, He is come forth to make war with thee. And when he heard it, he sent messengers to Hezekiah, saying , 10 Thus shall ye speak to Hezekiah king of Judah, saying , Let not thy God, in whom thou trustest , deceive thee, saying , Jerusalem shall not be given into the hand of the king of Assyria. 11 Behold, thou hast heard what the kings of Assyria have done to all lands by destroying them utterly ; and shalt thou be delivered ? 12 Have the gods of the nations delivered them which my fathers have destroyed , as Gozan, and Haran, and Rezeph, and the children of Eden which were in Telassar? 13 Where is the king of Hamath, and the king of Arphad, and the king of the city of Sepharvaim, Hena, and Ivah? 14 And Hezekiah received the letter from the hand of the messengers, and read it: and Hezekiah went up unto the house of the LORD, and spread it before the LORD. 15 And Hezekiah prayed unto the LORD, saying , 16 O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, that dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth: thou hast made heaven and earth. 17 Incline thine ear, O LORD, and hear ; open thine eyes, O LORD, and see : and hear all the words of Sennacherib, which hath sent to reproach the living God.

    Of a truth, LORD, the kings of Assyria have laid waste all the nations, and their countries, 19 And have cast their gods into the fire: for they were no gods, but the work of men's hands, wood and stone: therefore they have destroyed them. 20 Now therefore, O LORD our God, save us from his hand, that all the kingdoms of the earth may know that thou art the LORD, even thou only. 21 Then Isaiah the son of Amoz sent unto Hezekiah, saying , Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Whereas thou hast prayed to me against Sennacherib king of Assyria: 22 This is the word which the LORD hath spoken concerning him; The virgin, the daughter of Zion, hath despised thee, and laughed thee to scorn; the daughter of Jerusalem hath shaken her head at thee. 23 Whom hast thou reproached and blasphemed ? and against whom hast thou exalted thy voice, and lifted up thine eyes on high? even against the Holy One of Israel. 24 By thy servants hast thou reproached the Lord, and hast said , By the multitude of my chariots am I come up to the height of the mountains, to the sides of Lebanon; and I will cut down the tall cedars thereof, and the choice fir trees thereof: and I will enter into the height of his border, and the forest of his Carmel. 25 I have digged , and drunk water; and with the sole of my feet have I dried up all the rivers of the besieged places. 26 Hast thou not heard long ago, how I have done it; and of ancient times, that I have formed it? now have I brought it to pass, that thou shouldest be to lay waste defenced cities into ruinous heaps. 27 Therefore their inhabitants were of small power, they were dismayed and confounded : they were as the grass of the field, and as the green herb, as the grass on the housetops, and as corn blasted before it be grown up. 28 But I know thy abode , and thy going out , and thy coming in , and thy rage against me. 29 Because thy rage against me, and thy tumult, is come up into mine ears, therefore will I put my hook in thy nose, and my bridle in thy lips, and I will turn thee back by the way by which thou camest . 30 And this shall be a sign unto thee, Ye shall eat this year such as groweth of itself; and the second year that which springeth of the same: and in the third year sow ye, and reap , and plant vineyards, and eat the fruit thereof. 31 And the remnant that is escaped of the house of Judah shall again take root downward, and bear fruit upward: 32 For out of Jerusalem shall go forth a remnant, and they that escape out of mount Zion: the zeal of the LORD of hosts shall do this. 33 Therefore thus saith the LORD concerning the king of Assyria, He shall not come into this city, nor shoot an arrow there, nor come before it with shields, nor cast a bank against it. 34 By the way that he came , by the same shall he return , and shall not come into this city, saith the LORD. 35 For I will defend this city to save it for mine own sake, and for my servant David's sake. 36 Then the angel of the LORD went forth , and smote in the camp of the Assyrians a hundred and fourscore and five thousand: and when they arose early in the morning, behold, they were all dead corpses. 37 So Sennacherib king of Assyria departed , and went and returned , and dwelt at Nineveh. 38 And it came to pass, as he was worshipping in the house of Nisroch his god, that Adrammelech and Sharezer his sons smote him with the sword; and they escaped into the land of Armenia: and Esarhaddon his son reigned in his stead.

    In those days was Hezekiah sick unto death . And Isaiah the prophet the son of Amoz came unto him, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Set thine house in order : for thou shalt die , and not live . 2 Then Hezekiah turned his face toward the wall, and prayed unto the LORD, 3 And said , Remember now, O LORD, I beseech thee, how I have walked before thee in truth and with a perfect heart, and have done that which is good in thy sight. And Hezekiah wept sore. 4 Then came the word of the LORD to Isaiah, saying , 5 Go , and say to Hezekiah, Thus saith the LORD, the God of David thy father, I have heard thy prayer, I have seen thy tears: behold, I will add unto thy days fifteen years. 6 And I will deliver thee and this city out of the hand of the king of Assyria: and I will defend this city. 7 And this shall be a sign unto thee from the LORD, that the LORD will do this thing that he hath spoken ; 8 Behold, I will bring again the shadow of the degrees, which is gone down in the sun dial of Ahaz, ten degrees backward. So the sun returned ten degrees, by which degrees it was gone down . 9 The writing of Hezekiah king of Judah, when he had been sick , and was recovered of his sickness: 10 I said in the cutting off of my days, I shall go to the gates of the grave: I am deprived of the residue of my years. 11 I said , I shall not see the LORD, even the LORD, in the land of the living: I shall behold man no more with the inhabitants of the world. 12 Mine age is departed , and is removed from me as a shepherd's tent: I have cut off like a weaver my life: he will cut me off with pining sickness: from day even to night wilt thou make an end of me. 13 I reckoned till morning, that, as a lion, so will he break all my bones: from day even to night wilt thou make an end of me. 14 Like a crane or a swallow, so did I chatter : I did mourn as a dove: mine eyes fail with looking upward: O LORD, I am oppressed; undertake for me. 15 What shall I say ? he hath both spoken unto me, and himself hath done it: I shall go softly all my years in the bitterness of my soul. 16 O Lord, by these things men live , and in all these things is the life of my spirit: so wilt thou recover me, and make me to live . 17 Behold, for peace I had great bitterness : but thou hast in love to my soul delivered it from the pit of corruption: for thou hast cast all my sins behind thy back. 18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth. 19 The living, the living, he shall praise thee, as I do this day: the father to the children shall make known thy truth. 20 The LORD was ready to save me: therefore we will sing my songs to the stringed instruments all the days of our life in the house of the LORD. 21 For Isaiah had said , Let them take a lump of figs, and lay it for a plaister upon the boil, and he shall recover . 22 Hezekiah also had said , What is the sign that I shall go up to the house of the LORD?

    At that time Merodachbaladan, the son of Baladan, king of Babylon, sent letters and a present to Hezekiah: for he had heard that he had been sick , and was recovered . 2 And Hezekiah was glad of them, and shewed them the house of his precious things, the silver, and the gold, and the spices, and the precious ointment, and all the house of his armour, and all that was found in his treasures: there was nothing in his house, nor in all his dominion, that Hezekiah shewed them not. 3 Then came Isaiah the prophet unto king Hezekiah, and said unto him, What said these men? and from whence came they unto thee? And Hezekiah said , They are come from a far country unto me, even from Babylon. 4 Then said he, What have they seen in thine house? And Hezekiah answered , All that is in mine house have they seen : there is nothing among my treasures that I have not shewed them. 5 Then said Isaiah to Hezekiah, Hear the word of the LORD of hosts: 6 Behold, the days come , that all that is in thine house, and that which thy fathers have laid up in store until this day, shall be carried to Babylon: nothing shall be left , saith the LORD. 7 And of thy sons that shall issue from thee, which thou shalt beget , shall they take away ; and they shall be eunuchs in the palace of the king of Babylon. 8 Then said Hezekiah to Isaiah, Good is the word of the LORD which thou hast spoken . He said moreover, For there shall be peace and truth in my days.

    Comfort ye, comfort ye my people, saith your God. 2 Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished , that her iniquity is pardoned : for she hath received of the LORD'S hand double for all her sins. 3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. 4 Every valley shall be exalted , and every mountain and hill shall be made low : and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain: 5 And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed , and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it. 6 The voice said , Cry . And he said , What shall I cry ? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field: 7 The grass withereth , the flower fadeth : because the spirit of the LORD bloweth upon it: surely the people is grass. 8 The grass withereth , the flower fadeth : but the word of our God shall stand for ever. 9 O Zion, that bringest good tidings , get thee up into the high mountain; O Jerusalem, that bringest good tidings , lift up thy voice with strength; lift it up , be not afraid ; say unto the cities of Judah, Behold your God! 10 Behold, the Lord GOD will come with strong hand, and his arm shall rule for him: behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him. 11 He shall feed his flock like a shepherd : he shall gather the lambs with his arm, and carry them in his bosom, and shall gently lead those that are with young . 12 Who hath measured the waters in the hollow of his hand, and meted out heaven with the span, and comprehended the dust of the earth in a measure, and weighed the mountains in scales, and the hills in a balance? 13 Who hath directed the Spirit of the LORD, or being his counsellor hath taught him? 14 With whom took he counsel , and who instructed him, and taught him in the path of judgment, and taught him knowledge, and shewed to him the way of understanding?

    Behold, the nations are as a drop of a bucket, and are counted as the small dust of the balance: behold, he taketh up the isles as a very little thing. 16 And Lebanon is not sufficient to burn , nor the beasts thereof sufficient for a burnt offering. 17 All nations before him are as nothing; and they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity. 18 To whom then will ye liken God? or what likeness will ye compare unto him? 19 The workman melteth a graven image, and the goldsmith spreadeth it over with gold, and casteth silver chains. 20 He that is so impoverished that he hath no oblation chooseth a tree that will not rot ; he seeketh unto him a cunning workman to prepare a graven image, that shall not be moved . 21 Have ye not known ? have ye not heard ? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth? 22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in : 23 That bringeth the princes to nothing; he maketh the judges of the earth as vanity. 24 Yea, they shall not be planted ; yea, they shall not be sown : yea, their stock shall not take root in the earth: and he shall also blow upon them, and they shall wither , and the whirlwind shall take them away as stubble. 25 To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal ? saith the Holy One. 26 Lift up your eyes on high, and behold who hath created these things, that bringeth out their host by number: he calleth them all by names by the greatness of his might, for that he is strong in power; not one faileth . 27 Why sayest thou, O Jacob, and speakest , O Israel, My way is hid from the LORD, and my judgment is passed over from my God? 28 Hast thou not known ? hast thou not heard , that the everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary ? there is no searching of his understanding. 29 He giveth power to the faint; and to them that have no might he increaseth strength. 30 Even the youths shall faint and be weary , and the young men shall utterly fall : 31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run , and not be weary ; and they shall walk , and not faint.

    Keep silence before me, O islands; and let the people renew their strength: let them come near ; then let them speak : let us come near together to judgment. 2 Who raised up the righteous man from the east, called him to his foot, gave the nations before him, and made him rule over kings? he gave them as the dust to his sword, and as driven stubble to his bow. 3 He pursued them, and passed safely; even by the way that he had not gone with his feet. 4 Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he. 5 The isles saw it, and feared ; the ends of the earth were afraid , drew near , and came . 6 They helped every one his neighbour; and every one said to his brother, Be of good courage . 7 So the carpenter encouraged the goldsmith , and he that smootheth with the hammer him that smote the anvil, saying , It is ready for the sodering: and he fastened it with nails, that it should not be moved . 8 But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen , the seed of Abraham my friend . 9 Thou whom I have taken from the ends of the earth, and called thee from the chief men thereof, and said unto thee, Thou art my servant; I have chosen thee, and not cast thee away . 10 Fear thou not; for I am with thee: be not dismayed ; for I am thy God: I will strengthen thee; yea, I will help thee; yea, I will uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness. 11 Behold, all they that were incensed against thee shall be ashamed and confounded : they shall be as nothing; and they that strive with thee shall perish . 12 Thou shalt seek them, and shalt not find them, even them that contended with thee: they that war against thee shall be as nothing, and as a thing of nought. 13 For I the LORD thy God will hold thy right hand, saying unto thee, Fear not; I will help thee. 14 Fear not, thou worm Jacob, and ye men of Israel; I will help thee, saith the LORD, and thy redeemer , the Holy One of Israel.

    Behold, I will make thee a new sharp threshing instrument having teeth: thou shalt thresh the mountains, and beat them small , and shalt make the hills as chaff. 16 Thou shalt fan them, and the wind shall carry them away , and the whirlwind shall scatter them: and thou shalt rejoice in the LORD, and shalt glory in the Holy One of Israel. 17 When the poor and needy seek water, and there is none, and their tongue faileth for thirst, I the LORD will hear them, I the God of Israel will not forsake them. 18 I will open rivers in high places, and fountains in the midst of the valleys: I will make the wilderness a pool of water, and the dry land springs of water. 19 I will plant in the wilderness the cedar, the shittah tree, and the myrtle, and the oil tree; I will set in the desert the fir tree, and the pine, and the box tree together: 20 That they may see , and know , and consider , and understand together, that the hand of the LORD hath done this, and the Holy One of Israel hath created it. 21 Produce your cause, saith the LORD; bring forth your strong reasons, saith the King of Jacob. 22 Let them bring them forth , and shew us what shall happen : let them shew the former things, what they be, that we may consider them, and know the latter end of them; or declare us things for to come . 23 Shew the things that are to come hereafter, that we may know that ye are gods: yea, do good , or do evil , that we may be dismayed , and behold it together. 24 Behold, ye are of nothing, and your work of nought: an abomination is he that chooseth you. 25 I have raised up one from the north, and he shall come : from the rising of the sun shall he call upon my name: and he shall come upon princes as upon morter, and as the potter treadeth clay. 26 Who hath declared from the beginning, that we may know ? and beforetime, that we may say , He is righteous? yea, there is none that sheweth , yea, there is none that declareth , yea, there is none that heareth your words. 27 The first shall say to Zion, Behold, behold them: and I will give to Jerusalem one that bringeth good tidings . 28 For I beheld , and there was no man; even among them, and there was no counsellor , that, when I asked of them, could answer a word. 29 Behold, they are all vanity; their works are nothing: their molten images are wind and confusion.

    Behold my servant, whom I uphold ; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth ; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. 2 He shall not cry , nor lift up , nor cause his voice to be heard in the street. 3 A bruised reed shall he not break , and the smoking flax shall he not quench : he shall bring forth judgment unto truth. 4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged , till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law. 5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out ; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: 6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. 8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. 9 Behold, the former things are come to pass , and new things do I declare : before they spring forth I tell you of them. 10 Sing unto the LORD a new song, and his praise from the end of the earth, ye that go down to the sea, and all that is therein; the isles, and the inhabitants thereof. 11 Let the wilderness and the cities thereof lift up their voice, the villages that Kedar doth inhabit : let the inhabitants of the rock sing , let them shout from the top of the mountains. 12 Let them give glory unto the LORD, and declare his praise in the islands. 13 The LORD shall go forth as a mighty man, he shall stir up jealousy like a man of war: he shall cry , yea, roar ; he shall prevail against his enemies . 14 I have long time holden my peace ; I have been still , and refrained myself: now will I cry like a travailing woman ; I will destroy and devour at once. 15 I will make waste mountains and hills, and dry up all their herbs; and I will make the rivers islands, and I will dry up the pools. 16 And I will bring the blind by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known : I will make darkness light before them, and crooked things straight. These things will I do unto them, and not forsake them. 17 They shall be turned back, they shall be greatly ashamed , that trust in graven images, that say to the molten images, Ye are our gods. 18 Hear , ye deaf; and look , ye blind, that ye may see . 19 Who is blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger that I sent ? who is blind as he that is perfect , and blind as the LORD'S servant? 20 Seeing many things, but thou observest not; opening the ears, but he heareth not. 21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable . 22 But this is a people robbed and spoiled ; they are all of them snared in holes , and they are hid in prison houses: they are for a prey, and none delivereth ; for a spoil, and none saith , Restore . 23 Who among you will give ear to this? who will hearken and hear for the time to come? 24 Who gave Jacob for a spoil , and Israel to the robbers ? did not the LORD, he against whom we have sinned ? for they would not walk in his ways, neither were they obedient unto his law. 25 Therefore he hath poured upon him the fury of his anger, and the strength of battle: and it hath set him on fire round about, yet he knew not; and it burned him, yet he laid it not to heart.

    But now thus saith the LORD that created thee, O Jacob, and he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name; thou art mine. 2 When thou passest through the waters, I will be with thee; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee: when thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned ; neither shall the flame kindle upon thee. 3 For I am the LORD thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour : I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee. 4 Since thou wast precious in my sight, thou hast been honourable , and I have loved thee: therefore will I give men for thee, and people for thy life. 5 Fear not: for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west; 6 I will say to the north, Give up ; and to the south, Keep not back : bring my sons from far, and my daughters from the ends of the earth; 7 Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him. 8 Bring forth the blind people that have eyes, and the deaf that have ears. 9 Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the people be assembled : who among them can declare this, and shew us former things? let them bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified : or let them hear , and say , It is truth. 10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen : that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed , neither shall there be after me. 11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour . 12 I have declared , and have saved , and I have shewed , when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God. 13 Yea, before the day was I am he; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work , and who shall let it? 14 Thus saith the LORD, your redeemer , the Holy One of Israel; For your sake I have sent to Babylon, and have brought down all their nobles, and the Chaldeans, whose cry is in the ships. 15 I am the LORD, your Holy One, the creator of Israel, your King. 16 Thus saith the LORD, which maketh a way in the sea, and a path in the mighty waters; 17 Which bringeth forth the chariot and horse, the army and the power; they shall lie down together, they shall not rise : they are extinct , they are quenched as tow. 18 Remember ye not the former things, neither consider the things of old. 19 Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth ; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert. 20 The beast of the field shall honour me, the dragons and the owls : because I give waters in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert, to give drink to my people, my chosen. 21 This people have I formed for myself; they shall shew forth my praise. 22 But thou hast not called upon me, O Jacob; but thou hast been weary of me, O Israel. 23 Thou hast not brought me the small cattle of thy burnt offerings; neither hast thou honoured me with thy sacrifices. I have not caused thee to serve with an offering, nor wearied thee with incense. 24 Thou hast bought me no sweet cane with money, neither hast thou filled me with the fat of thy sacrifices: but thou hast made me to serve with thy sins, thou hast wearied me with thine iniquities. 25 I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins. 26 Put me in remembrance : let us plead together: declare thou, that thou mayest be justified . 27 Thy first father hath sinned , and thy teachers have transgressed against me. 28 Therefore I have profaned the princes of the sanctuary, and have given Jacob to the curse, and Israel to reproaches.

    Yet now hear , O Jacob my servant; and Israel, whom I have chosen : 2 Thus saith the LORD that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, which will help thee; Fear not, O Jacob, my servant; and thou, Jesurun, whom I have chosen . 3 For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground: I will pour my spirit upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thine offspring: 4 And they shall spring up as among the grass, as willows by the water courses. 5 One shall say , I am the LORD'S; and another shall call himself by the name of Jacob; and another shall subscribe with his hand unto the LORD, and surname himself by the name of Israel. 6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. 7 And who, as I, shall call , and shall declare it, and set it in order for me, since I appointed the ancient people? and the things that are coming , and shall come , let them shew unto them. 8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid : have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any. 9 They that make a graven image are all of them vanity; and their delectable things shall not profit ; and they are their own witnesses; they see not, nor know ; that they may be ashamed . 10 Who hath formed a god, or molten a graven image that is profitable for nothing? 11 Behold, all his fellows shall be ashamed : and the workmen, they are of men: let them all be gathered together , let them stand up ; yet they shall fear , and they shall be ashamed together. 12 The smith with the tongs both worketh in the coals, and fashioneth it with hammers, and worketh it with the strength of his arms: yea, he is hungry, and his strength faileth: he drinketh no water, and is faint . 13 The carpenter stretcheth out his rule; he marketh it out with a line; he fitteth it with planes, and he marketh it out with the compass, and maketh it after the figure of a man, according to the beauty of a man; that it may remain in the house.

    He heweth him down cedars, and taketh the cypress and the oak, which he strengtheneth for himself among the trees of the forest: he planteth an ash, and the rain doth nourish it. 15 Then shall it be for a man to burn : for he will take thereof, and warm himself; yea, he kindleth it, and baketh bread; yea, he maketh a god, and worshippeth it; he maketh it a graven image, and falleth down thereto. 16 He burneth part thereof in the fire; with part thereof he eateth flesh; he roasteth roast, and is satisfied : yea, he warmeth himself, and saith , Aha, I am warm , I have seen the fire: 17 And the residue thereof he maketh a god, even his graven image: he falleth down unto it, and worshippeth it, and prayeth unto it, and saith , Deliver me; for thou art my god. 18 They have not known nor understood : for he hath shut their eyes, that they cannot see ; and their hearts, that they cannot understand . 19 And none considereth in his heart, neither is there knowledge nor understanding to say , I have burned part of it in the fire; yea, also I have baked bread upon the coals thereof; I have roasted flesh, and eaten it: and shall I make the residue thereof an abomination? shall I fall down to the stock of a tree? 20 He feedeth on ashes: a deceived heart hath turned him aside , that he cannot deliver his soul, nor say , Is there not a lie in my right hand? 21 Remember these, O Jacob and Israel; for thou art my servant: I have formed thee; thou art my servant: O Israel, thou shalt not be forgotten of me. 22 I have blotted out , as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee. 23 Sing , O ye heavens; for the LORD hath done it: shout , ye lower parts of the earth: break forth into singing, ye mountains, O forest, and every tree therein: for the LORD hath redeemed Jacob, and glorified himself in Israel. 24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer , and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself; 25 That frustrateth the tokens of the liars, and maketh diviners mad ; that turneth wise men backward, and maketh their knowledge foolish ; 26 That confirmeth the word of his servant, and performeth the counsel of his messengers; that saith to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be inhabited ; and to the cities of Judah, Ye shall be built , and I will raise up the decayed places thereof: 27 That saith to the deep, Be dry , and I will dry up thy rivers: 28 That saith of Cyrus, He is my shepherd , and shall perform all my pleasure: even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built ; and to the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid.

    Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden , to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut ; 2 I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight : I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron: 3 And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel. 4 For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me. 5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: 6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. 8 Drop down , ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open , and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD have created it. 9 Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker ! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands? 10 Woe unto him that saith unto his father, What begettest thou? or to the woman, What hast thou brought forth ? 11 Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker , Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me. 12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.

    I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives, not for price nor reward, saith the LORD of hosts. 14 Thus saith the LORD, The labour of Egypt, and merchandise of Ethiopia and of the Sabeans, men of stature, shall come over unto thee, and they shall be thine: they shall come after thee; in chains they shall come over , and they shall fall down unto thee, they shall make supplication unto thee, saying, Surely God is in thee; and there is none else, there is no God. 15 Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour . 16 They shall be ashamed , and also confounded , all of them: they shall go to confusion together that are makers of idols. 17 But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end. 18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited : I am the LORD; and there is none else. 19 I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right. 20 Assemble yourselves and come ; draw near together, ye that are escaped of the nations: they have no knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image, and pray unto a god that cannot save . 21 Tell ye, and bring them near ; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour ; there is none beside me. 22 Look unto me, and be ye saved , all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. 23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return , That unto me every knee shall bow , every tongue shall swear . 24 Surely, shall one say , in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come ; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed . 25 In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified , and shall glory.

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    Re: The United States of the Solar System: A.D. 2133 (Book One)

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Sat Mar 28, 2015 2:48 pm

    "Orthodoxymoron?? I've Heard About You..."

    Bel boweth down , Nebo stoopeth , their idols were upon the beasts, and upon the cattle: your carriages were heavy loaden ; they are a burden to the weary beast. 2 They stoop , they bow down together; they could not deliver the burden, but themselves are gone into captivity. 3 Hearken unto me, O house of Jacob, and all the remnant of the house of Israel, which are borne by me from the belly, which are carried from the womb: 4 And even to your old age I am he; and even to hoar hairs will I carry you: I have made , and I will bear ; even I will carry , and will deliver you. 5 To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal , and compare me, that we may be like ? 6 They lavish gold out of the bag, and weigh silver in the balance, and hire a goldsmith ; and he maketh it a god: they fall down , yea, they worship . 7 They bear him upon the shoulder, they carry him, and set him in his place , and he standeth ; from his place shall he not remove : yea, one shall cry unto him, yet can he not answer , nor save him out of his trouble. 8 Remember this, and shew yourselves men : bring it again to mind, O ye transgressors . 9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, 10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done , saying , My counsel shall stand , and I will do all my pleasure: 11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it. 12 Hearken unto me, ye stouthearted , that are far from righteousness: 13 I bring near my righteousness; it shall not be far off , and my salvation shall not tarry : and I will place salvation in Zion for Israel my glory.

    Come down , and sit in the dust, O virgin daughter of Babylon, sit on the ground: there is no throne, O daughter of the Chaldeans: for thou shalt no more be called tender and delicate. 2 Take the millstones, and grind meal: uncover thy locks, make bare the leg, uncover the thigh, pass over the rivers. 3 Thy nakedness shall be uncovered , yea, thy shame shall be seen : I will take vengeance, and I will not meet thee as a man. 4 As for our redeemer , the LORD of hosts is his name, the Holy One of Israel. 5 Sit thou silent, and get thee into darkness, O daughter of the Chaldeans: for thou shalt no more be called , The lady of kingdoms. 6 I was wroth with my people, I have polluted mine inheritance, and given them into thine hand: thou didst shew them no mercy; upon the ancient hast thou very heavily laid thy yoke. 7 And thou saidst , I shall be a lady for ever: so that thou didst not lay these things to thy heart, neither didst remember the latter end of it. 8 Therefore hear now this, thou that art given to pleasures, that dwellest carelessly, that sayest in thine heart, I am, and none else beside me; I shall not sit as a widow, neither shall I know the loss of children: 9 But these two things shall come to thee in a moment in one day, the loss of children, and widowhood: they shall come upon thee in their perfection for the multitude of thy sorceries, and for the great abundance of thine enchantments. 10 For thou hast trusted in thy wickedness: thou hast said , None seeth me. Thy wisdom and thy knowledge, it hath perverted thee; and thou hast said in thine heart, I am, and none else beside me. 11 Therefore shall evil come upon thee; thou shalt not know from whence it riseth: and mischief shall fall upon thee; thou shalt not be able to put it off : and desolation shall come upon thee suddenly, which thou shalt not know . 12 Stand now with thine enchantments, and with the multitude of thy sorceries, wherein thou hast laboured from thy youth; if so be thou shalt be able to profit , if so be thou mayest prevail . 13 Thou art wearied in the multitude of thy counsels. Let now the astrologers , the stargazers , the monthly prognosticators , stand up , and save thee from these things that shall come upon thee. 14 Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame: there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor fire to sit before it. 15 Thus shall they be unto thee with whom thou hast laboured , even thy merchants , from thy youth: they shall wander every one to his quarter; none shall save thee.

    Hear ye this, O house of Jacob, which are called by the name of Israel, and are come forth out of the waters of Judah, which swear by the name of the LORD, and make mention of the God of Israel, but not in truth, nor in righteousness. 2 For they call themselves of the holy city, and stay themselves upon the God of Israel; The LORD of hosts is his name. 3 I have declared the former things from the beginning; and they went forth out of my mouth, and I shewed them; I did them suddenly, and they came to pass . 4 Because I knew that thou art obstinate, and thy neck is an iron sinew, and thy brow brass; 5 I have even from the beginning declared it to thee; before it came to pass I shewed it thee: lest thou shouldest say , Mine idol hath done them, and my graven image, and my molten image, hath commanded them. 6 Thou hast heard , see all this; and will not ye declare it? I have shewed thee new things from this time, even hidden things , and thou didst not know them. 7 They are created now, and not from the beginning; even before the day when thou heardest them not; lest thou shouldest say , Behold, I knew them. 8 Yea, thou heardest not; yea, thou knewest not; yea, from that time that thine ear was not opened : for I knew that thou wouldest deal very treacherously , and wast called a transgressor from the womb. 9 For my name's sake will I defer mine anger, and for my praise will I refrain for thee, that I cut thee not off . 10 Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction. 11 For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted ? and I will not give my glory unto another. 12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called ; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last. 13 Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together. 14 All ye, assemble yourselves, and hear ; which among them hath declared these things? The LORD hath loved him: he will do his pleasure on Babylon, and his arm shall be on the Chaldeans. 15 I, even I, have spoken ; yea, I have called him: I have brought him, and he shall make his way prosperous . 16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me. 17 Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer , the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit , which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go . 18 O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea: 19 Thy seed also had been as the sand, and the offspring of thy bowels like the gravel thereof; his name should not have been cut off nor destroyed from before me. 20 Go ye forth of Babylon, flee ye from the Chaldeans, with a voice of singing declare ye, tell this, utter it even to the end of the earth; say ye, The LORD hath redeemed his servant Jacob. 21 And they thirsted not when he led them through the deserts: he caused the waters to flow out of the rock for them: he clave the rock also, and the waters gushed out . 22 There is no peace, saith the LORD, unto the wicked.

    Listen , O isles, unto me; and hearken , ye people, from far; The LORD hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name. 2 And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me; 3 And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified . 4 Then I said , I have laboured in vain, I have spent my strength for nought, and in vain: yet surely my judgment is with the LORD, and my work with my God. 5 And now, saith the LORD that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered , yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the LORD, and my God shall be my strength. 6 And he said , It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth. 7 Thus saith the LORD, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth , to a servant of rulers , Kings shall see and arise , princes also shall worship , because of the LORD that is faithful , and the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee. 8 Thus saith the LORD, In an acceptable time have I heard thee, and in a day of salvation have I helped thee: and I will preserve thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, to establish the earth, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages; 9 That thou mayest say to the prisoners , Go forth ; to them that are in darkness, Shew yourselves. They shall feed in the ways, and their pastures shall be in all high places. 10 They shall not hunger nor thirst ; neither shall the heat nor sun smite them: for he that hath mercy on them shall lead them, even by the springs of water shall he guide them. 11 And I will make all my mountains a way, and my highways shall be exalted . 12 Behold, these shall come from far: and, lo, these from the north and from the west; and these from the land of Sinim. 13 Sing , O heavens; and be joyful , O earth; and break forth into singing, O mountains: for the LORD hath comforted his people, and will have mercy upon his afflicted. 14 But Zion said , The LORD hath forsaken me, and my Lord hath forgotten me. 15 Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? yea, they may forget , yet will I not forget thee. 16 Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands; thy walls are continually before me. 17 Thy children shall make haste ; thy destroyers and they that made thee waste shall go forth of thee. 18 Lift up thine eyes round about, and behold : all these gather themselves together , and come to thee. As I live, saith the LORD, thou shalt surely clothe thee with them all, as with an ornament, and bind them on thee, as a bride doeth. 19 For thy waste and thy desolate places , and the land of thy destruction, shall even now be too narrow by reason of the inhabitants , and they that swallowed thee up shall be far away . 20 The children which thou shalt have, after thou hast lost the other, shall say again in thine ears, The place is too strait for me: give place to me that I may dwell . 21 Then shalt thou say in thine heart, Who hath begotten me these, seeing I have lost my children , and am desolate, a captive , and removing to and fro ? and who hath brought up these? Behold, I was left alone; these, where had they been? 22 Thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I will lift up mine hand to the Gentiles, and set up my standard to the people: and they shall bring thy sons in their arms, and thy daughters shall be carried upon their shoulders. 23 And kings shall be thy nursing fathers , and their queens thy nursing mothers : they shall bow down to thee with their face toward the earth, and lick up the dust of thy feet; and thou shalt know that I am the LORD: for they shall not be ashamed that wait for me. 24 Shall the prey be taken from the mighty, or the lawful captive delivered ? 25 But thus saith the LORD, Even the captives of the mighty shall be taken away , and the prey of the terrible shall be delivered : for I will contend with him that contendeth with thee, and I will save thy children. 26 And I will feed them that oppress thee with their own flesh; and they shall be drunken with their own blood, as with sweet wine: and all flesh shall know that I the LORD am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer , the mighty One of Jacob.

    Thus saith the LORD, Where is the bill of your mother's divorcement, whom I have put away ? or which of my creditors is it to whom I have sold you? Behold, for your iniquities have ye sold yourselves, and for your transgressions is your mother put away . 2 Wherefore, when I came , was there no man? when I called , was there none to answer ? Is my hand shortened at all , that it cannot redeem? or have I no power to deliver ? behold, at my rebuke I dry up the sea, I make the rivers a wilderness: their fish stinketh , because there is no water, and dieth for thirst. 3 I clothe the heavens with blackness, and I make sackcloth their covering. 4 The Lord GOD hath given me the tongue of the learned, that I should know how to speak a word in season to him that is weary: he wakeneth morning by morning, he wakeneth mine ear to hear as the learned. 5 The Lord GOD hath opened mine ear, and I was not rebellious , neither turned away back. 6 I gave my back to the smiters , and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting. 7 For the Lord GOD will help me; therefore shall I not be confounded : therefore have I set my face like a flint, and I know that I shall not be ashamed . 8 He is near that justifieth me; who will contend with me? let us stand together: who is mine adversary ? let him come near to me. 9 Behold, the Lord GOD will help me; who is he that shall condemn me? lo, they all shall wax old as a garment; the moth shall eat them up . 10 Who is among you that feareth the LORD, that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh in darkness, and hath no light? let him trust in the name of the LORD, and stay upon his God. 11 Behold, all ye that kindle a fire, that compass yourselves about with sparks: walk in the light of your fire, and in the sparks that ye have kindled . This shall ye have of mine hand; ye shall lie down in sorrow.

    Hearken to me, ye that follow after righteousness, ye that seek the LORD: look unto the rock whence ye are hewn , and to the hole of the pit whence ye are digged . 2 Look unto Abraham your father, and unto Sarah that bare you: for I called him alone, and blessed him, and increased him. 3 For the LORD shall comfort Zion: he will comfort all her waste places; and he will make her wilderness like Eden, and her desert like the garden of the LORD; joy and gladness shall be found therein, thanksgiving, and the voice of melody. 4 Hearken unto me, my people; and give ear unto me, O my nation: for a law shall proceed from me, and I will make my judgment to rest for a light of the people. 5 My righteousness is near; my salvation is gone forth , and mine arms shall judge the people; the isles shall wait upon me, and on mine arm shall they trust . 6 Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath: for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment, and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner: but my salvation shall be for ever, and my righteousness shall not be abolished . 7 Hearken unto me, ye that know righteousness, the people in whose heart is my law; fear ye not the reproach of men, neither be ye afraid of their revilings. 8 For the moth shall eat them up like a garment, and the worm shall eat them like wool: but my righteousness shall be for ever, and my salvation from generation to generation. 9 Awake , awake , put on strength, O arm of the LORD; awake , as in the ancient days, in the generations of old. Art thou not it that hath cut Rahab, and wounded the dragon? 10 Art thou not it which hath dried the sea, the waters of the great deep; that hath made the depths of the sea a way for the ransomed to pass over ? 11 Therefore the redeemed of the LORD shall return , and come with singing unto Zion; and everlasting joy shall be upon their head: they shall obtain gladness and joy; and sorrow and mourning shall flee away . 12 I, even I, am he that comforteth you: who art thou, that thou shouldest be afraid of a man that shall die , and of the son of man which shall be made as grass; 13 And forgettest the LORD thy maker , that hath stretched forth the heavens, and laid the foundations of the earth; and hast feared continually every day because of the fury of the oppressor , as if he were ready to destroy ? and where is the fury of the oppressor ? 14 The captive exile hasteneth that he may be loosed , and that he should not die in the pit, nor that his bread should fail . 15 But I am the LORD thy God, that divided the sea, whose waves roared : The LORD of hosts is his name. 16 And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou art my people. 17 Awake , awake , stand up , O Jerusalem, which hast drunk at the hand of the LORD the cup of his fury; thou hast drunken the dregs of the cup of trembling, and wrung them out . 18 There is none to guide her among all the sons whom she hath brought forth ; neither is there any that taketh her by the hand of all the sons that she hath brought up . 19 These two things are come unto thee; who shall be sorry for thee? desolation, and destruction, and the famine, and the sword: by whom shall I comfort thee? 20 Thy sons have fainted , they lie at the head of all the streets, as a wild bull in a net: they are full of the fury of the LORD, the rebuke of thy God. 21 Therefore hear now this, thou afflicted, and drunken , but not with wine: 22 Thus saith thy Lord the LORD, and thy God that pleadeth the cause of his people, Behold, I have taken out of thine hand the cup of trembling, even the dregs of the cup of my fury; thou shalt no more drink it again : 23 But I will put it into the hand of them that afflict thee; which have said to thy soul, Bow down , that we may go over : and thou hast laid thy body as the ground, and as the street, to them that went over.

    Awake , awake ; put on thy strength, O Zion; put on thy beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city: for henceforth there shall no more come into thee the uncircumcised and the unclean. 2 Shake thyself from the dust; arise , and sit down , O Jerusalem: loose thyself from the bands of thy neck, O captive daughter of Zion. 3 For thus saith the LORD, Ye have sold yourselves for nought; and ye shall be redeemed without money. 4 For thus saith the Lord GOD, My people went down aforetime into Egypt to sojourn there; and the Assyrian oppressed them without cause. 5 Now therefore, what have I here, saith the LORD, that my people is taken away for nought? they that rule over them make them to howl , saith the LORD; and my name continually every day is blasphemed . 6 Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak : behold, it is I. 7 How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings , that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth ! 8 Thy watchmen shall lift up the voice; with the voice together shall they sing : for they shall see eye to eye, when the LORD shall bring again Zion. 9 Break forth into joy , sing together, ye waste places of Jerusalem: for the LORD hath comforted his people, he hath redeemed Jerusalem. 10 The LORD hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God. 11 Depart ye, depart ye, go ye out from thence, touch no unclean thing; go ye out of the midst of her; be ye clean , that bear the vessels of the LORD. 12 For ye shall not go out with haste, nor go by flight: for the LORD will go before you; and the God of Israel will be your rereward . 13 Behold, my servant shall deal prudently , he shall be exalted and extolled , and be very high . 14 As many were astonied at thee; his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men: 15 So shall he sprinkle many nations; the kings shall shut their mouths at him: for that which had not been told them shall they see ; and that which they had not heard shall they consider.

    Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed ? 2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. 3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised , and we esteemed him not. 4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken , smitten of God, and afflicted . 5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed . 6 All we like sheep have gone astray ; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. 7 He was oppressed , and he was afflicted , yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb , so he openeth not his mouth. 8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. 9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. 10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief : when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. 11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied : by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. 12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors ; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

    Sing , O barren, thou that didst not bear ; break forth into singing, and cry aloud , thou that didst not travail with child : for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife , saith the LORD. 2 Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes; 3 For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited . 4 Fear not; for thou shalt not be ashamed : neither be thou confounded ; for thou shalt not be put to shame : for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more. 5 For thy Maker is thine husband ; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called . 6 For the LORD hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused , saith thy God. 7 For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee. 8 In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the LORD thy Redeemer . 9 For this is as the waters of Noah unto me: for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee. 10 For the mountains shall depart , and the hills be removed ; but my kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed , saith the LORD that hath mercy on thee. 11 O thou afflicted, tossed with tempest , and not comforted , behold, I will lay thy stones with fair colours, and lay thy foundations with sapphires. 12 And I will make thy windows of agates, and thy gates of carbuncles , and all thy borders of pleasant stones. 13 And all thy children shall be taught of the LORD; and great shall be the peace of thy children. 14 In righteousness shalt thou be established : thou shalt be far from oppression; for thou shalt not fear : and from terror; for it shall not come near thee. 15 Behold, they shall surely gather together , but not by me: whosoever shall gather together against thee shall fall for thy sake. 16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy . 17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper ; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn . This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.

    Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy , and eat ; yea, come , buy wine and milk without money and without price. 2 Wherefore do ye spend money for that which is not bread? and your labour for that which satisfieth not? hearken diligently unto me, and eat ye that which is good, and let your soul delight itself in fatness. 3 Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear , and your soul shall live ; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David. 4 Behold, I have given him for a witness to the people, a leader and commander to the people. 5 Behold, thou shalt call a nation that thou knowest not, and nations that knew not thee shall run unto thee because of the LORD thy God, and for the Holy One of Israel; for he hath glorified thee. 6 Seek ye the LORD while he may be found , call ye upon him while he is near: 7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon . 8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. 9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. 10 For as the rain cometh down , and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud , that it may give seed to the sower , and bread to the eater : 11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please , and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. 12 For ye shall go out with joy, and be led forth with peace: the mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands. 13 Instead of the thorn shall come up the fir tree, and instead of the brier shall come up the myrtle tree: and it shall be to the LORD for a name, for an everlasting sign that shall not be cut off.

    Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come , and my righteousness to be revealed . 2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil. 3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak , saying , The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say , Behold, I am a dry tree. 4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant; 5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off . 6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; 7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people. 8 The Lord GOD which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith , Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him. 9 All ye beasts of the field, come to devour , yea, all ye beasts in the forest. 10 His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant , they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark ; sleeping , lying down , loving to slumber . 11 Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand : they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter. 12 Come ye, say they, I will fetch wine, and we will fill ourselves with strong drink; and to morrow shall be as this day, and much more abundant.

    The righteous perisheth , and no man layeth it to heart: and merciful men are taken away , none considering that the righteous is taken away from the evil to come. 2 He shall enter into peace: they shall rest in their beds, each one walking in his uprightness. 3 But draw near hither, ye sons of the sorceress , the seed of the adulterer and the whore . 4 Against whom do ye sport yourselves? against whom make ye a wide mouth, and draw out the tongue? are ye not children of transgression, a seed of falsehood, 5 Enflaming yourselves with idols under every green tree, slaying the children in the valleys under the clifts of the rocks? 6 Among the smooth stones of the stream is thy portion; they, they are thy lot: even to them hast thou poured a drink offering, thou hast offered a meat offering. Should I receive comfort in these? 7 Upon a lofty and high mountain hast thou set thy bed: even thither wentest thou up to offer sacrifice. 8 Behind the doors also and the posts hast thou set up thy remembrance: for thou hast discovered thyself to another than me, and art gone up ; thou hast enlarged thy bed, and made thee a covenant with them; thou lovedst their bed where thou sawest it. 9 And thou wentest to the king with ointment, and didst increase thy perfumes, and didst send thy messengers far off, and didst debase thyself even unto hell. 10 Thou art wearied in the greatness of thy way; yet saidst thou not, There is no hope : thou hast found the life of thine hand; therefore thou wast not grieved . 11 And of whom hast thou been afraid or feared , that thou hast lied , and hast not remembered me, nor laid it to thy heart? have not I held my peace even of old, and thou fearest me not? 12 I will declare thy righteousness, and thy works; for they shall not profit thee. 13 When thou criest , let thy companies deliver thee; but the wind shall carry them all away ; vanity shall take them: but he that putteth his trust in me shall possess the land, and shall inherit my holy mountain; 14 And shall say , Cast ye up , cast ye up , prepare the way, take up the stumblingblock out of the way of my people. 15 For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones . 16 For I will not contend for ever, neither will I be always wroth : for the spirit should fail before me, and the souls which I have made . 17 For the iniquity of his covetousness was I wroth , and smote him: I hid me, and was wroth , and he went on frowardly in the way of his heart. 18 I have seen his ways, and will heal him: I will lead him also, and restore comforts unto him and to his mourners. 19 I create the fruit of the lips; Peace, peace to him that is far off, and to him that is near, saith the LORD; and I will heal him. 20 But the wicked are like the troubled sea, when it cannot rest , whose waters cast up mire and dirt. 21 There is no peace, saith my God, to the wicked.

    Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins. 2 Yet they seek me daily , and delight to know my ways, as a nation that did righteousness, and forsook not the ordinance of their God: they ask of me the ordinances of justice; they take delight in approaching to God. 3 Wherefore have we fasted , say they, and thou seest not? wherefore have we afflicted our soul, and thou takest no knowledge ? Behold, in the day of your fast ye find pleasure, and exact all your labours. 4 Behold, ye fast for strife and debate, and to smite with the fist of wickedness: ye shall not fast as ye do this day, to make your voice to be heard on high. 5 Is it such a fast that I have chosen ? a day for a man to afflict his soul? is it to bow down his head as a bulrush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to the LORD? 6 Is not this the fast that I have chosen ? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke? 7 Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh? 8 Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the LORD shall be thy rereward . 9 Then shalt thou call , and the LORD shall answer ; thou shalt cry , and he shall say , Here I am. If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity; 10 And if thou draw out thy soul to the hungry, and satisfy the afflicted soul; then shall thy light rise in obscurity, and thy darkness be as the noonday: 11 And the LORD shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not. 12 And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called , The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in . 13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable ; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: 14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

    Behold, the LORD'S hand is not shortened , that it cannot save ; neither his ear heavy , that it cannot hear : 2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear . 3 For your hands are defiled with blood, and your fingers with iniquity; your lips have spoken lies, your tongue hath muttered perverseness. 4 None calleth for justice, nor any pleadeth for truth: they trust in vanity, and speak lies; they conceive mischief, and bring forth iniquity. 5 They hatch cockatrice' eggs, and weave the spider's web: he that eateth of their eggs dieth , and that which is crushed breaketh out into a viper. 6 Their webs shall not become garments, neither shall they cover themselves with their works: their works are works of iniquity, and the act of violence is in their hands. 7 Their feet run to evil, and they make haste to shed innocent blood: their thoughts are thoughts of iniquity; wasting and destruction are in their paths. 8 The way of peace they know not; and there is no judgment in their goings: they have made them crooked paths: whosoever goeth therein shall not know peace. 9 Therefore is judgment far from us, neither doth justice overtake us: we wait for light, but behold obscurity; for brightness, but we walk in darkness. 10 We grope for the wall like the blind, and we grope as if we had no eyes: we stumble at noonday as in the night; we are in desolate places as dead men. 11 We roar all like bears, and mourn sore like doves: we look for judgment, but there is none; for salvation, but it is far off from us. 12 For our transgressions are multiplied before thee, and our sins testify against us: for our transgressions are with us; and as for our iniquities, we know them; 13 In transgressing and lying against the LORD, and departing away from our God, speaking oppression and revolt, conceiving and uttering from the heart words of falsehood. 14 And judgment is turned away backward, and justice standeth afar off: for truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter . 15 Yea, truth faileth ; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey : and the LORD saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment. 16 And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor : therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him. 17 For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloke. 18 According to their deeds, accordingly he will repay , fury to his adversaries, recompence to his enemies ; to the islands he will repay recompence. 19 So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him. 20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD. 21 As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.

    Arise , shine ; for thy light is come , and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee. 2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee. 3 And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising. 4 Lift up thine eyes round about, and see : all they gather themselves together , they come to thee: thy sons shall come from far, and thy daughters shall be nursed at thy side. 5 Then thou shalt see , and flow together , and thine heart shall fear , and be enlarged ; because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee, the forces of the Gentiles shall come unto thee. 6 The multitude of camels shall cover thee, the dromedaries of Midian and Ephah; all they from Sheba shall come : they shall bring gold and incense; and they shall shew forth the praises of the LORD. 7 All the flocks of Kedar shall be gathered together unto thee, the rams of Nebaioth shall minister unto thee: they shall come up with acceptance on mine altar, and I will glorify the house of my glory. 8 Who are these that fly as a cloud, and as the doves to their windows? 9 Surely the isles shall wait for me, and the ships of Tarshish first, to bring thy sons from far, their silver and their gold with them, unto the name of the LORD thy God, and to the Holy One of Israel, because he hath glorified thee. 10 And the sons of strangers shall build up thy walls, and their kings shall minister unto thee: for in my wrath I smote thee, but in my favour have I had mercy on thee. 11 Therefore thy gates shall be open continually; they shall not be shut day nor night; that men may bring unto thee the forces of the Gentiles, and that their kings may be brought . 12 For the nation and kingdom that will not serve thee shall perish ; yea, those nations shall be utterly wasted . 13 The glory of Lebanon shall come unto thee, the fir tree, the pine tree, and the box together, to beautify the place of my sanctuary; and I will make the place of my feet glorious . 14 The sons also of them that afflicted thee shall come bending unto thee; and all they that despised thee shall bow themselves down at the soles of thy feet; and they shall call thee, The city of the LORD, The Zion of the Holy One of Israel. 15 Whereas thou hast been forsaken and hated , so that no man went through thee, I will make thee an eternal excellency, a joy of many generations. 16 Thou shalt also suck the milk of the Gentiles, and shalt suck the breast of kings: and thou shalt know that I the LORD am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer , the mighty One of Jacob. 17 For brass I will bring gold, and for iron I will bring silver, and for wood brass, and for stones iron: I will also make thy officers peace, and thine exactors righteousness. 18 Violence shall no more be heard in thy land, wasting nor destruction within thy borders; but thou shalt call thy walls Salvation, and thy gates Praise. 19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light , and thy God thy glory. 20 Thy sun shall no more go down ; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the LORD shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended . 21 Thy people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified . 22 A little one shall become a thousand, and a small one a strong nation: I the LORD will hasten it in his time.

    The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted , to proclaim liberty to the captives , and the opening of the prison to them that are bound ; 2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn; 3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified . 4 And they shall build the old wastes, they shall raise up the former desolations , and they shall repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations. 5 And strangers shall stand and feed your flocks, and the sons of the alien shall be your plowmen and your vinedressers. 6 But ye shall be named the Priests of the LORD: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves. 7 For your shame ye shall have double; and for confusion they shall rejoice in their portion: therefore in their land they shall possess the double: everlasting joy shall be unto them. 8 For I the LORD love judgment, I hate robbery for burnt offering; and I will direct their work in truth, and I will make an everlasting covenant with them. 9 And their seed shall be known among the Gentiles, and their offspring among the people: all that see them shall acknowledge them, that they are the seed which the LORD hath blessed . 10 I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels. 11 For as the earth bringeth forth her bud, and as the garden causeth the things that are sown in it to spring forth ; so the Lord GOD will cause righteousness and praise to spring forth before all the nations.

    For Zion's sake will I not hold my peace , and for Jerusalem's sake I will not rest , until the righteousness thereof go forth as brightness, and the salvation thereof as a lamp that burneth . 2 And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name , which the mouth of the LORD shall name. 3 Thou shalt also be a crown of glory in the hand of the LORD, and a royal diadem in the hand of thy God. 4 Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken ; neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzibah, and thy land Beulah : for the LORD delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married . 5 For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee: and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee. 6 I have set watchmen upon thy walls, O Jerusalem, which shall never hold their peace day nor night: ye that make mention of the LORD, keep not silence, 7 And give him no rest, till he establish , and till he make Jerusalem a praise in the earth. 8 The LORD hath sworn by his right hand, and by the arm of his strength, Surely I will no more give thy corn to be meat for thine enemies ; and the sons of the stranger shall not drink thy wine, for the which thou hast laboured : 9 But they that have gathered it shall eat it, and praise the LORD; and they that have brought it together shall drink it in the courts of my holiness. 10 Go through , go through the gates; prepare ye the way of the people; cast up , cast up the highway; gather out the stones; lift up a standard for the people. 11 Behold, the LORD hath proclaimed unto the end of the world, Say ye to the daughter of Zion, Behold, thy salvation cometh ; behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him. 12 And they shall call them, The holy people, The redeemed of the LORD: and thou shalt be called , Sought out , A city not forsaken.

    Who is this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this that is glorious in his apparel, travelling in the greatness of his strength? I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save . 2 Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel, and thy garments like him that treadeth in the winefat? 3 I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment. 4 For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come . 5 And I looked , and there was none to help ; and I wondered that there was none to uphold : therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me. 6 And I will tread down the people in mine anger, and make them drunk in my fury, and I will bring down their strength to the earth. 7 I will mention the lovingkindnesses of the LORD, and the praises of the LORD, according to all that the LORD hath bestowed on us, and the great goodness toward the house of Israel, which he hath bestowed on them according to his mercies, and according to the multitude of his lovingkindnesses. 8 For he said , Surely they are my people, children that will not lie : so he was their Saviour . 9 In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old. 10 But they rebelled , and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy , and he fought against them. 11 Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him? 12 That led them by the right hand of Moses with his glorious arm, dividing the water before them, to make himself an everlasting name? 13 That led them through the deep, as an horse in the wilderness, that they should not stumble ? 14 As a beast goeth down into the valley, the Spirit of the LORD caused him to rest : so didst thou lead thy people, to make thyself a glorious name. 15 Look down from heaven, and behold from the habitation of thy holiness and of thy glory: where is thy zeal and thy strength, the sounding of thy bowels and of thy mercies toward me? are they restrained ? 16 Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer ; thy name is from everlasting. 17 O LORD, why hast thou made us to err from thy ways, and hardened our heart from thy fear? Return for thy servants' sake, the tribes of thine inheritance. 18 The people of thy holiness have possessed it but a little while: our adversaries have trodden down thy sanctuary. 19 We are thine: thou never barest rule over them; they were not called by thy name.

    Oh that thou wouldest rend the heavens, that thou wouldest come down , that the mountains might flow down at thy presence, 2 As when the melting fire burneth , the fire causeth the waters to boil , to make thy name known to thine adversaries, that the nations may tremble at thy presence! 3 When thou didst terrible things which we looked not for, thou camest down , the mountains flowed down at thy presence. 4 For since the beginning of the world men have not heard , nor perceived by the ear , neither hath the eye seen , O God, beside thee, what he hath prepared for him that waiteth for him. 5 Thou meetest him that rejoiceth and worketh righteousness, those that remember thee in thy ways: behold, thou art wroth ; for we have sinned : in those is continuance, and we shall be saved . 6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away . 7 And there is none that calleth upon thy name, that stirreth up himself to take hold of thee: for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of our iniquities. 8 But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter ; and we all are the work of thy hand. 9 Be not wroth very sore, O LORD, neither remember iniquity for ever: behold, see , we beseech thee, we are all thy people. 10 Thy holy cities are a wilderness, Zion is a wilderness, Jerusalem a desolation. 11 Our holy and our beautiful house, where our fathers praised thee, is burned up with fire: and all our pleasant things are laid waste. 12 Wilt thou refrain thyself for these things, O LORD? wilt thou hold thy peace , and afflict us very sore?

    I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said , Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name. 2 I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts; 3 A people that provoketh me to anger continually to my face; that sacrificeth in gardens, and burneth incense upon altars of brick; 4 Which remain among the graves, and lodge in the monuments , which eat swine's flesh, and broth of abominable things is in their vessels; 5 Which say , Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou. These are a smoke in my nose, a fire that burneth all the day. 6 Behold, it is written before me: I will not keep silence , but will recompense , even recompense into their bosom, 7 Your iniquities, and the iniquities of your fathers together, saith the LORD, which have burned incense upon the mountains, and blasphemed me upon the hills: therefore will I measure their former work into their bosom. 8 Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith , Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all. 9 And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there. 10 And Sharon shall be a fold of flocks, and the valley of Achor a place for the herds to lie down in, for my people that have sought me. 11 But ye are they that forsake the LORD, that forget my holy mountain, that prepare a table for that troop , and that furnish the drink offering unto that number. 12 Therefore will I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: because when I called , ye did not answer ; when I spake , ye did not hear ; but did evil before mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not. 13 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, my servants shall eat , but ye shall be hungry : behold, my servants shall drink , but ye shall be thirsty : behold, my servants shall rejoice , but ye shall be ashamed : 14 Behold, my servants shall sing for joy of heart, but ye shall cry for sorrow of heart, and shall howl for vexation of spirit. 15 And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord GOD shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name: 16 That he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten , and because they are hid from mine eyes. 17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered , nor come into mind. 18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create : for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy. 19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying. 20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed . 21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them. 22 They shall not build , and another inhabit ; they shall not plant , and another eat : for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands. 23 They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them. 24 And it shall come to pass, that before they call , I will answer ; and while they are yet speaking , I will hear . 25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.

    Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool : where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest? 2 For all those things hath mine hand made , and all those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look , even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word. 3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck ; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations. 4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called , none did answer ; when I spake , they did not hear : but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not. 5 Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said , Let the LORD be glorified : but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed . 6 A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the LORD that rendereth recompence to his enemies . 7 Before she travailed , she brought forth ; before her pain came , she was delivered of a man child. 8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed , she brought forth her children. 9 Shall I bring to the birth , and not cause to bring forth ? saith the LORD: shall I cause to bring forth , and shut the womb? saith thy God. 10 Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad with her, all ye that love her: rejoice for joy with her, all ye that mourn for her: 11 That ye may suck , and be satisfied with the breasts of her consolations; that ye may milk out , and be delighted with the abundance of her glory. 12 For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck , ye shall be borne upon her sides, and be dandled upon her knees. 13 As one whom his mother comforteth , so will I comfort you; and ye shall be comforted in Jerusalem. 14 And when ye see this, your heart shall rejoice , and your bones shall flourish like an herb: and the hand of the LORD shall be known toward his servants, and his indignation toward his enemies . 15 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. 16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many . 17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD. 18 For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come , that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come , and see my glory. 19 And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles. 20 And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD. 21 And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD. 22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make , shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain . 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. 24 And they shall go forth , and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die , neither shall their fire be quenched ; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

    "Hmmmmm........Which One Shall I Eat First??"

    Posts : 7824
    Join date : 2010-09-28

    Re: The United States of the Solar System: A.D. 2133 (Book One)

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Sat Mar 28, 2015 2:51 pm

    Consider comparing and contrasting the following three KJV Lists:

    1. Genesis.
    2. Exodus.
    3. Leviticus.
    4. Numbers.
    5. Deuteronomy.
    6. Joshua.

    1. Job.
    2. Psalms.
    3. Proverbs.
    4. Ecclesiastes.
    5. Song of Songs.
    6. Isaiah.

    1. Matthew.
    2. Mark.
    3. Luke.
    4. John.
    5. Acts.
    6. Romans.

    The first group doesn't seem very "Christ-Like" but I don't think we know the real circumstances associated with these six books. The second and third groups are very "Christ-Like" but in very different ways. Is one "Christ" and the other "In Place of Christ"?? Again -- I don't think we know the real circumstances associated with these two-groups of six-books. Then -- when "Jesus" gets marketed like "Soap" -- things sort of get out of control. I think the PTB have a Dragon by the Tail -- and are afraid to let go. "Just let it go..." Just kidding -- or am  I?? BTW -- I'd still like to know if "Q" consists of 37 books??!!

    Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.  4 Blessed are they that mourn : for they shall be comforted .  5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.  6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled .  7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy .  8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.  9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.  10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.  11 Blessed are ye , when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil  against you falsely , for my sake .  12 Rejoice , and be exceeding glad : for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.  13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour , wherewith shall it be salted ? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.  14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot  be hid .  15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.  16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.  17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy , but to fulfil .  18 For verily I say unto you, Till  heaven and earth pass , one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till  all be fulfilled .  19 Whosoever  therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.  20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed  the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.  21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill ; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:  22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say , Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.  23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;  24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way ; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.  25 Agree  with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.  26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.  27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery :  28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.  29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out , and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish , and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.  30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off , and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish , and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.  31 It hath been said  , Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:  32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery : and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery .  33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself , but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:  34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:  35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool  : neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.  36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.  37 But let your communication be , Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.  38 Ye have heard that it hath been said , An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:  39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.  40 And if any man will sue thee at the law , and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.  41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.  42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away .  43 Ye have heard that it hath been said , Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.  44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;  45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.  46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye ? do not even the publicans the same?  47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?  48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

    Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen  of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.  2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.  3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth :  4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly .  5 And when thou prayest , thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you , They have their reward.  6 But thou, when thou prayest , enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly .  7 But when ye pray , use not vain repetitions , as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.  8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.  9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.  10 Thy kingdom come . Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.  11 Give us this day our daily bread.  12 And forgive us our debts, as  we forgive our debtors.  13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.  14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:  15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.  16 Moreover when ye fast , be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast . Verily I say unto you , They have their reward.  17 But thou, when thou fastest , anoint thine head, and wash thy face;  18 That thou appear not unto men to fast , but unto thy Father which is in secret: and thy Father, which seeth in secret, shall reward thee openly .  19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt , and where thieves break through and steal :  20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt , and where thieves do not break through nor steal :  21 For where your treasure is , there will your heart be also.  22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.  23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!  24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot  serve God and mammon.  25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat , or what ye shall drink ; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on . Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?  26 Behold  the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap , nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?  27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?  28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow ; they toil not, neither do they spin :  29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.  30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is , and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?  31 Therefore take no thought , saying , What shall we eat ? or, What shall we drink ? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed ?  32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek :) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.  33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.  34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

    Judge not, that ye be not judged .  2 For with what judgment ye judge , ye shall be judged : and with what measure ye mete , it shall be measured to you again .  3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?  4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold , a beam is in thine own eye?  5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.  6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.  7 Ask , and it shall be given you; seek , and ye shall find ; knock , and it shall be opened unto you:  8 For every one that asketh receiveth ; and he that seeketh findeth ; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened .  9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give  him a stone?  10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give  him a serpent?  11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?  12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.  13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat  :  14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.  15 Beware  of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.  16 Ye shall know them by their fruits . Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?  17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.  18 A good tree cannot  bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.  19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down , and cast into the fire.  20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.  21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.  22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?  23 And then will I profess unto them , I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.  24 Therefore whosoever  heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:  25 And the rain descended , and the floods came , and the winds blew , and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.  26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:  27 And the rain descended , and the floods came , and the winds blew , and beat upon that house; and it fell : and great was the fall of it

    The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:  3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe , that observe and do ; but do not ye after their works: for they say , and do not.  4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.  5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men  : they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,  6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,  7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.  8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.  9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.  10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.  11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.  12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased ; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted .  13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in .  14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer : therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.  15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made , ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.  16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say , Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor !  17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?  18 And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever  sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty .  19 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?  20 Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon .  21 And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.  22 And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon .  23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment , mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done , and not to leave the other undone .  24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.  25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.  26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.  27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.  28 Even so ye also  outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.  29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,  30 And say , If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.  31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.  32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.  33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?  34 Wherefore , behold , I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify ; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:  35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.  36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.  37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy  children together , even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!  38 Behold , your house is left unto you desolate.  39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth , till ye shall say , Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

    See ye the temple? Verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. Take heed that no man deceive you.  5 For many shall come in my name, saying , I am Christ; and shall deceive many.  6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled : for all these things must come to pass , but the end is not yet.  7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.  8 All  these are the beginning of sorrows.  9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.  10 And then shall many be offended , and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.  11 And many false prophets shall rise , and shall deceive many.  12 And because iniquity shall abound , the love of many shall wax cold .  13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved .  14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come .  15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth , let him understand :)  16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:  17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:  18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.  19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!  20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:  21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be .  22 And except those days should be shortened , there should no flesh be saved : but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened .  23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo , here is Christ, or there; believe it not.  24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.  25 Behold , I have told you before .  26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold , he is in the desert; go not forth : behold , he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.  27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be .  28 For wheresoever the carcase is , there will the eagles be gathered together .  29 Immediately  after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened , and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken :  30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn , and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.  31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other .  32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:  33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.  34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass , till  all these things be fulfilled .  35 Heaven and earth shall pass away , but my words shall not pass away .  36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.  37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be .  38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking , marrying and giving in marriage , until the day that Noe entered into the ark,  39 And knew not until the flood came , and took them all away ; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be .  40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken , and the other left .  41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken , and the other left .  42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come .  43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come , he would have watched , and would not have suffered his house to be broken up .  44 Therefore  be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh .  45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?  46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing .  47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods .  48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming ;  49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken ;  50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of ,  51 And shall cut him asunder , and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

    Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.  2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.  3 They that were foolish took their  lamps, and took no oil with them:  4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.  5 While the bridegroom tarried , they all slumbered and slept .  6 And at midnight there was a cry made , Behold , the bridegroom cometh ; go ye out to meet him.  7 Then all those virgins arose , and trimmed their lamps.  8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out .  9 But the wise answered , saying , Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell , and buy for yourselves.  10 And while they went to buy , the bridegroom came ; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut .  11 Afterward  came also the other virgins, saying , Lord, Lord, open to us.  12 But he answered and said , Verily I say unto you, I know you not.  13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh .  14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country , who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods .  15 And unto one he gave five talents , to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey .  16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.  17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.  18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.  19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh , and reckoneth  with them.  20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying , Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.  21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.  22 He also that had received two talents came and said , Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.  23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.  24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said , Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown , and gathering where thou hast not strawed :  25 And I was afraid , and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.  26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed :  27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.  28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.  29 For unto every one that hath shall be given , and he shall have abundance : but from him that hath not shall be taken away  even that which he hath .  30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.  31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:  32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:  33 And he shall set  the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.  34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come , ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:  35 For I was an hungred , and ye gave me meat : I was thirsty , and ye gave me drink : I was a stranger, and ye took me in :  36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick , and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.  37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying , Lord, when saw we thee an hungred , and fed thee? or thirsty , and gave thee drink ?  38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in ? or naked, and clothed thee?  39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?  40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.  41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed , into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:  42 For I was an hungred , and ye gave me no meat : I was thirsty , and ye gave me no drink :  43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in : naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.  44 Then shall they also answer him, saying , Lord, when saw we thee an hungred , or athirst , or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?  45 Then shall he answer them, saying , Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.  46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.  

    "You Can't Outrun or Outgun God!!"

    Beware of Nuns with Guns!! BTW -- has anyone seen Late Nite Catechism?? I saw it in Seattle!! It was frighteningly-funny!! How much crime might there be if Nuns Ran the Prisons??!! It might be the End of Crime As We Know It!! Here is a rather sad and disillusioning link. I'm finding the book The End of the World, A.D. 2133. (Silvestre) to be MOST Interesting!! You might need to go to the Library of Congress to read a copy. I have a duplicate-copy from the Library of Congress. Please consider a strict grammatical-historical interpretation of Job through Daniel. Then -- give the results of this study a science-fictional context. You might wish to re-watch the Babylon 5 movies and series to get started with this ambitious project. Consider Kitesh relative to Vala Mal Doran in Stargate SG-1. Consider the Pre-Human Delenn relative to the Human Delenn in Babylon 5. Imagine Delenn and Vala running the Vatican!! Consider the concept of Reincarnating Gods and Goddesses -- complete with a Name Shell-Game. Some of you REALLY need to get Sirius about researching the areas I've touched upon within this thread. I have the questions. You need to find the answers. This project might be tougher and nastier than you can possibly imagine. I'm trying to take a break from posting -- but I plan to study eschatology in the context of science-fiction -- and I might keep most of the results of this study to myself. This stuff is mostly too painful and disillusioning for me to talk about. I've hinted-at a lot of things -- but I haven't spelled-out the details. This sort of thing isn't for everyone -- to say the least. So many people have gone through hell thinking about the End of the World -- for hundreds and thousands of years. Many people have experienced a "Time of Trouble" before the "Time of Trouble". Eschatology is NOT a particularly pastoral subject -- and I think it has screwed-up millions (and even billions) of people -- perhaps by design. Here is an interesting video. I've heard other versions of this sort of thing. I stopped attending the SDA church -- in part because I smelled a rat (or was it a dead church-mouse?)! I think EVERYTHING (of any significance) is infiltrated and subverted -- and that most EVERYONE (of any prominence) is controlled and scripted. Perhaps it has to be this way. Damned if I know. I simply know that I am EXTREMELY disillusioned and despondent.

    This is the sort of post which makes my stomach churn. I could've just made a nice post with the Nun-Pictures -- but no -- I had to post some really divisive and inflammatory material. Why?? Because this is a Moot Spiritual War which is intended to deal with the most controversial material in a somewhat constructive manner. My posts tend to make everyone angry -- rather than just one side, or the other. Please remember that this thread is only the beginning. I wish to state (one more time) that I am everyone's friend -- and no one's friend. I have spoken of listening (in person) to a Black Jesuit from San Francisco giving a presentation to the Association of Adventist Forums at Pacific Union College -- and enjoying that presentation. I have spoken of wishing to spend some quality time with the Jesuits on Mt. Graham -- with their big binocular-telescope. I have spoken of attending literally dozens of Masses (including a Latin Mass) in various Catholic churches and cathedrals -- and enjoying them. But the Ancient Egyptian Deity told me that the Jesuits didn't like me -- and that "they" liked me on Phobos!! Honest!! I have posted materials within this thread which could be construed as being critical of Catholicism (in general) and the Jesuits (in particular). I have somewhat jokingly spoken of imagining myself as being a Renegade French Jesuit Organist!! I do NOT hate Catholics!! I simply think that this world is run in a harsh and sinister manner -- and that Roman Catholicism is at the center of a very-real War in Heaven and Earth. I have even grouped the Nazis, Masons, and Jesuits into basically one-group working for the same boss (but I have no idea if this is really the way things work). I am honestly mostly neutral in all of this -- and I simply wish to understand -- and positively-reinforce that which presently exists. Unfortunately, this seems to make me everyone's-enemy -- but I frankly don't give a damn. Once again -- I am on everyone's side -- and on no one's side. I mostly wish to just quietly research and reflect -- without making a great-big deal about anything. I've done a lot of modeling -- some of it borderline-blasphemous -- but I simply desire understanding and illumination. I am NOT seeking to win some sort of a superficial popularity contest -- or any contest, for that matter. I desire the truth -- and I wish to benefit all-concerned -- regardless of whether anyone likes it, or not.

    The Ruler of This World Will Get You In The End...
    orthodoxymoron wrote:The Old-Testament ends around 400 BC -- with approximately 400 years of Biblical-Silence. I've been wondering if the New-Testament is somehow a corrupted version of Suppressed Intertestamental Messianic Writings (which might resemble the writings found in Job through Daniel -- or at least commentaries and applications of those books)?! I realize this is heresy -- and I have little evidence to back-up this radical idea. I have suggested a very careful study of Job through Daniel -- prior to studying other parts of the Bible -- using these ten-books as an interpretive-key. What if the time extending from Alexander the Great (356-323 BC) -- right up to the present -- should be viewed with extreme-suspicion -- especially regarding how this world has been run?! What if all the religions which came into existence during this time-period were invented and promoted by the Same Hidden PTB?! This might hypothetically include Christianity (as we know it) -- Catholicism -- Islam -- Protestantism (in all of its forms) -- and virtually every religion and sect -- as franchises of One Big Business!! If true -- this would be upsetting and revolting to everyone -- wouldn't it?! Try reading Luke and James -- straight-through -- over and over -- comparing this study with the rest of the New-Testament. Then compare that same study with Job through Daniel. As I previously noted -- only Acts -- James -- and 3 John -- do NOT end with "Amen." Was someone trying to tell us something?? Further -- consider that Luke-Acts is really one book by the same author. Likewise -- one might consider First, Second, and Third John as being one book by the same author. If there is any validity to what I just said -- what would a study of the following books yield??

    1. Job.
    2. Psalms.
    3. Proverbs.
    4. Ecclesiastes.
    5. Song of Songs.
    6. Isaiah.
    7. Jeremiah.
    8. Lamentations.
    9. Ezekiel.
    10. Daniel.
    11. Luke.
    12. Acts.
    13. James.
    14. 1 John.
    15. 2 John.
    16. 3 John.

    Are these books consistent with the rest of the Bible?? If one studied these 16 books -- what doctrinal-framework might emerge?? Should a doctrinal-framework even be constructed?? Should these books simply be read (straight-through -- over and over)?? I am Not a Bible-Scholar. Not even close. I simply wonder as I wander. Once again -- I simply wish to research and reflect -- without getting angry and disruptive. I think we're in the process of finding-out some extremely upsetting and potentially-disruptive information. Being triumphalist in any of this would be a grave-error. Some say that the Catholic Church and the Pope are the Root of All Evil -- but I am suggesting the possibility of another layer of power, which even Rome is subservient to!! Groot is the Root of All Evil. Or perhaps the Mandrake is the Root of All Evil. What REALLY scares me is the possibility that the historical-madness and often ruthless and corrupt governance -- might've somehow been necessary and/or unavoidable (as insane as that sounds)!! Perhaps it has been somehow necessary for the Bad-Guys to run Earth, Inc. for thousands of years -- as revolting as that sounds!! Please consider ALL Possibilities before throwing stones!! Whenever I speculate about Solar System Governance -- I feel dirty and sick!! Perhaps there is No Good Way to Run a Solar System!! This thing might be tougher and nastier than we can possibly imagine!! Once again -- I have no idea what's true or false. I just take everything in -- and quietly move-on. What if one formulated a Mental and Spiritual Conceptualization of the Messiah based upon the following??

    1. Job through Daniel (KJV).
    2. The Bach B-Minor Mass.

    This wouldn't be Judaism or Christianity -- would it?? What would it be?? Just know that during my break I will be spending a lot of quality time with those two sources -- but, once again, this is simply an area of study, rather than being a line in the sand. What if Job through Daniel were given a completely universal-interpretation -- rather than being biased toward Judaism (ancient or modern)? What if the Bach B-Minor Mass were given a completely universal-interpretation -- rather than being biased toward Christianity or Catholicism?? Would these two sources make an effective Ecumenical Book of Common Prayer?? I often have NO Idea what people want and need. But whatever it is -- it probably has to be THEIR Idea!! Everyone seems to wish to rule (whether they admit it, or not). Can you even begin to imagine what would happen if the world were ruled by Jerusalem -- with absolute-obedience expected from everyone?? What if the Torah were the Law of the World?? Can you imagine the rioting and warfare??!! I still think that Someone-Significant REALLY wants the Battle of Armageddon!! Can't we all just get along?? Take a look at this!!

    After all of the madness I've considered -- you'd think I would've made up my mind by now -- wouldn't you?? However -- I feel as if I need to start over -- each and every day!! I will continue with the Modeling Modus Operandi I've been pursuing -- but this doesn't mean that I think I'm right -- and that everyone else is wrong. I am simply pursuing one particular approach to the madness. I'm not promoting this stuff -- nor do I intend to ever get on my "high-horse" and "take the show on the road". Just the opposite. The more I expose myself to the craziness -- the more I wish to become invisible and/or go underground -- and just disappear. I am highly embarrassed by this thread -- but I still think someone needed to do this sort of thing -- regardless of whether it benefitted anyone, or not. It hasn't made me a better person. Just the opposite. It has badly hamstrung me -- and horribly disillusioned and upset me. This thread is intended for Sirius-Researchers only. Unfortunately -- many in my local community seem to have been "alerted to my madness" by seemingly sinister and nefarious entities and agencies -- and this is MOST Unfortunate. I don't know if I am fundamentally good or bad -- on a soul-basis -- going way, way, way back -- but I seem to be mostly neutral and benign this time around. Who knows what I'll be like next-time (if there is a next-time)?! I frankly don't think we know much at all -- and I don't think we've seen anything yet. I'll simply continue to consider all the madness as being science-fiction. On the other hand -- I have NEVER lied about my personal experiences -- but I might've sometimes been mistaken -- or I might've exaggerated a bit. I have simply tried to model certain concepts and personalities -- which might've come perilously close to the dark-side, at times. I've tried to maintain neutrality and fairness -- toward the best of the best -- and the worst of the worst -- for better or worse -- I know not. Take a look at this!! It sort of makes you wonder -- doesn't it??!!

    Real or Fake??

    I got bored of Aliens and UFO's -- so I wrote the following drivel (relative to a listening-class): It is probably necessary to superimpose each component of Receive-Appreciate-Summarize-Ask (RASA) -- one on top of the other -- in order to properly apply Step 5 of "Julian's Five Steps" (from a TED lecture). One might Ask to Receive the desired data -- which must then be processed by Appreciating-Summarizing and Asking clarifying and inquisitive Questions. At various stages of this process -- the order of RASA might change -- and at times be all occurring at the same time -- with an equal emphasis. RASA somewhat mirrors the Scientific-Method -- wherein one Proposes a Hypothesis -- which simultaneously Asks and Answers a Question. Data is then gathered through Asking and Answering further questions -- which are pertinent to the Original Question and Answer. Ultimately, the Gathered Data is Summarized -- Conclusions are Reached -- and the Original Question and Answer is Verified or Nullified. The overall appearance and impression one observes in others -- and which one presents to others -- which might include facial-expression -- body-language -- clothing -- walking speed and style -- are Integral-Aspects of Non-Verbal Communication. Ideally -- one might Look-Sharp -- Act-Sharp -- and Be-Sharp -- with deviations from this Norm telling various stories. Experience would be determinative regarding this methodology -- and Contextual-Superimposition might play a significant role in the evaluation of a spectrum of non-verbal communication.
    enemyofNWO wrote:
    orthodoxymoron wrote:I'm pretty much in a state of despair. No matter who the "Real Bad Guys" are -- if they are removed -- there are undoubtedly some "Really Bad Guys" waiting to take-over. "Real Nice Guys" might not survive for five-minutes at the "Top of the Pyramid". Traditional-Religions might often be bottomless-pits of corruption and confusion -- but atheism, agnosticism, psychology, philosophy, politics, business, law, entertainment, etc. are simply different bottomless-pits of corruption and confusion. What if no one is genuinely good?? If powerless "Good-Guys" are placed in positions of power -- they might quickly turn into "Bad-Guys". We might be screwed -- no matter what we do (or don't do). We might've gotten our butts kicked in an Ancient Star War -- with the Victors ruling Humanity from the Shadows for Thousands of Years. Who Knows?? How can we REALLY know anything regarding history and how things really work?? I'll "Fight the Good Fight" -- but I'm not expecting "Paradise or Utopia" anytime soon...
    Remember that " Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely " . There are no check and balances to keep in line the ones at the very top .  In a previous post your wrote : quote "with approximately 400 years of Biblical-Silence. I've been wondering if the New-Testament is somehow a corrupted version of Suppressed Intertestamental Messianic Writings". I bet that corruption, misinterpretation and false translations are  inbuilt in any translated ancient text. How could you otherwise explain that an important rabbi threatened DR Strange about the revelations of the Dead Sea scrolls  ( see above videos ) ?  The biggest secret kept from the " believers " is the " flying saucers "  and alien interventions in human affairs .  The Flying saucer became " the holy Spirit " and the  Elohim became a singular entity instead of referring to a group of people . Because the church had control of the translations , then who didn't translate in an approved way ( nothing to do with the truth and accuracy ) got the marching orders .  The ancient text were used as property not of humanity but of a private  group of people that had in mind to enslave the world . The search for total control of the population is still going on .  
    orthodoxymoron wrote:I tend to agree. As I irreverently suggested before -- what if the Holy-Spirit might be the Queen of Heaven in a Flying-Saucer?? I don't mean to be mean. I'm just trying to make the insane make-sense...
    B.B.Baghor wrote:
    Are you familiar with the story of the 2 monks?

    "Two monks were on a pilgrimage and one day, came to the shore of a river, finding a woman in search
    for a way to cross the water. The monks weren't allowed, by their superiors, to touch a woman. One of
    the monks, being of a scholarly nature and helpful, chose to sort of set this rule aside and obey to the
    rule of his superiors and their belief, to be of service. He offered her, to carry her across on his back.
    She agreed with joy.

    Once on the other side, after having left the woman behind, on the shore, the two monks continued their
    journey. After about 3 hours, the monk who carried the woman, said to his companion. "You know, I wasn't
    supposed to do that" "What do you mean?" asked his companion. "Well" answered the other monk "The rules
    forbid me to touch a woman. I'm troubled by having done it". His companion answered "Oh, now I know what
    you mean, I've already completely forgotten about that woman and the incident. You still carry her on your back
    and make yourself suffer from it".
    enemyofNWO wrote: Thanks for the parable . I imagine that  it is taken from a chapter of the bible not published  yet. I hope your writing is proceeding OK .  Are you defensive about your religion? Does it upset you, perhaps  that ,in a discussion,   we revealed facts about  the Sacred COW called  Christianity ?  Please don't take personally discussions in a forum . I can assure you also that I don't carry anyone on my back and I don't have dead weight to expel . I am who I am and I accept it . Do you do anything to screw the system that oppresses us all ? I do , for dozens of years we have had the secret services of Europe and Australia on our back ..... they have spent millions of dollars , performed incredible number of operations and Psy -ops with no result . So we have something to be proud off . If only there were more people like us who work to screw the system and try to open the eyes of the ones that keep theirs wide shut , the system would collapse sooner .....

    Please don't be upset ,   we ,not always , read pleasant material . Unfortunately the world is not a pleasant place , it is a mine field ! who am I ?  I am one of millions that realized that the catholic religion is a fraud ,  after over 60 years since I woke up about it  I am still discovering despicable acts perpetrated by that criminal organization . I live in catholic country where the malefic presence of catholicism is omnipresent so i might  be rabid when dealing with the subject . I see also the pervasive influence of this cancerous religion on the politics and the society . There seem to be no end to the criminality of the church . They have the brass face to send missionary to regions  of the third world to try to convert who doesn't need to be . I don't think that the discussions with Otho are futile ,this subject is very interesting  and I think there is  some chance that  some of the discussion might influence, in a positive way,  some readers with an open mind .  Ortho ,as the rest of us , is on a personal journey and every person has his/her own interpretation of  what is searching and what is looking for .    Did you like the videos linked in post No 2   and 3 ? They are  eyes opener don't you agree ? Be well !
    orthodoxymoron wrote:In "The Exercise of Vital Powers" from the 4th season of Babylon 5 (which is depicted as being in the year 2261 A.D.) -- the statement was made that "Russia [had transitions of power] in 1917 and 2013". Mind you -- this episode was made in 1997. The Pope resigned in 2013 -- and a Jesuit became the new Pope. In "The Keys of This Blood" Malachi Martin writes about a three-way battle for control of the New World Order -- between Russia, the Vatican, and the United States. The book was published in 1990. What if Russia had a lot to do with the changing of the guard in Rome?? Supposedly -- the US and Russia might be headed for some sort of conflict. That same episode of Babylon 5 speaks of the French coming to power in 2112 A.D. I have a rare book titled The End of the World, A.D. 2133. Pope Benedict seemed a bit bitter when he spoke of "God Sleeping". I have irreverently joked that "God was just tired of all the bullshit!" All of this might not be significant -- but I find it somewhat interesting.

    enemyofNWO wrote:Thanks Ortho for the links ! I  just watched the video of Malachi Martin  posted above . There is a lot of information that is very relevant   even today .  But Martin ideas that the Pope John Paul would  unite the world on moral and ethical grounds  did not happen and it is very unlikely it will in the future ,John Paul died and things got worse . Since then the church is now associated universally with pedofilia and corruption. According to Martin already  in1990 the church had to pay 95 million dollars in compensation to children victims of sexual abuse . Martin said that the Church has the most efficient secret services in the world   . How do they do it ? The confession !  of course ! Just as a test try to confess that you know of a fictitious person that wants to bump off the pope ……… See how long it takes for the police to knock at you door ? Malachi said that the church has been penetrated by the Masons.   This happened a long time ago . The picture below is of Trieste where I live  near the palace of the Questore ( the chief of Police ) there is a church and above the door there is a date in roman numerals . The picture below is taken from my e-book chapter 19 .
    orthodoxymoron wrote:I've been thinking of the whole solar system as being one big business (in good and bad ways). The Catholic Church might be near the top of the pyramid -- but I keep thinking there's at least one or two layers of power beyond Rome (and probably not in good ways). But really -- the universe might have literally billions of star-wars occurring simultaneously -- from antiquity to modernity. How things are out-there probably has a lot to do with why things are the way they are on Earth. Most of this is speculation -- but there is some substance to it -- and it frankly scares the hell out of me. Without hearing anyone say it -- one day I thought about the possibility of bugged-confessionals -- and it freaked me out!! I just assume that ANYTHING I say is somehow recorded. That might be overly paranoid -- but this is reflective of Christian-Theology (and even Santa-Claus coming to town)!! I assume that all agencies are somehow interconnected (for better or worse). A lot of this is speculation -- but I keep hearing stories...
    orthodoxymoron wrote:What is the relationship (if any) between Dragons -- Draconian-Reptilians -- Generic-Reptilians -- Tall Long-Nosed Greys -- Small-Greys -- Generic-Hybrids -- Dragonized-Humans -- Nephilim -- Human-Giants -- Hybrid-Giants -- Reptilian-Giants -- Normal-Humans -- Angels -- Demons -- God -- Satan -- Demigods -- et al?? I might've added a couple of non-existent categories (or I might've missed someone) -- but you probably get my question. This whole-thing always seems to be an illusive shell-game. "Top" People probably get clear and concise briefings and documents -- but "We the Peons" must wade through "Endless Bullshit". I still don't know if most of the above really exist -- so I just play a stupid science-fiction game -- to attempt to understand a phenomenon which might not even exist. Strange-Beings could originate from Distant-Galaxies -- or they could be Renegade-Creations aka Forbidden-Abominations -- from Secret-Laboratories within this solar system. Who Knows?? How might Gabriel, Michael, and Lucifer relate to all of this?? Does Lucifer really exist -- or is Lucifer simply the dark-side of Gabriel and/or Michael?? Also -- is Azazel an actual Angel and/or Demon -- or is Azazel simply a Historical and Eschatological Scapegoat?? Is the Creator of Humanity considered to be "Azazel"?? Once again -- I have a very difficult time getting into the Thuban material. I'm presently taking a closer look at Biblical-Prophecy in the context of Science-Fiction. I am very-wary of Prophecy -- but I've recently felt the need to understand Job through Daniel - relative to Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John -- with unconventional approaches. I always feel as if I'm playing with burning-magnesium when I consider this madness -- and a lot of it really does seem to be madness (on purpose, in many ways). What do you think about the 2300 days-years of Daniel 8:14 originating around 168 BC -- and terminating around 2133 AD?? Does Humanity have a future "As-Is" -- or will we be terminated and/or turned into various sorts of hybrids (which might not resemble humanity as we know it)?? Was the Historical Jesus Christ really the Messiah of the Psalms and Isaiah -- or is there a Hidden Historical Messiah?? This sort of thing is nearly impossible to really know about with any certainty. I'm almost to the point of completely walking away from ALL of the stuff contained within this website -- and just go back to watching television. I might even start drinking-beer and going to football-games and baseball-games. Perhaps I should forget about ethics and truth -- and live a life of skirt-chasing and riotous-living. I actually think I might rejoin the "Rat-Race" because the Rats are Winning...

    "LA! LA! LA! LA! LA! LA! LA! LA! LA! LA! LA! LA! LA! WE CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!!! LA!! LA!! LA!! LA!! LA!! LA!! LA!! LA!! LA!! LA!! LA!! LA!!"

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    Re: The United States of the Solar System: A.D. 2133 (Book One)

    Post  B.B.Baghor on Sat Mar 28, 2015 4:39 pm

    Seashore wrote:
    orthodoxymoron wrote:

    I'm glad to see this one posted.  At the time of the conference, I purchased access to the archives of the conference, but Robert Morningstar's talk had technical difficulties and they didn't have his archive to offer but promised it at a later date.

    This is the last part of the Brooking Insitution Report, Robert Morningstar refers to in his lecture:

    20 jul. 1993 - THE BROOKINGS INSTITUTION - Final Report.
    “Proposed Studies on the Implications of Peaceful Space Activities for Human Affairs”.
    Prepared ..... believed, therefore, that if a program of such studies were to be developed...

    The implications of a discovery of extraterrestrial life

    Recent publicity given to effcrts to detect extraterrestrial messages via radio telescope has popularized
    -- and legitimized -- speculations about the 331 impact of such a discovery on human values and semi-
    intelligent life In some part of our solar system or highly intelligent life which is not technologically oriented,
    and many cosmologists and astronomers think it very likely that these is intelligent life in many other solar

    While face-to-face meetings with it will not occur within the next twenty years (unless its technology is more
    advanced tban ours, qualifying it to visit earth) artifacts left at some point ir, time by these life forms might
    possibly be It is conceivable that there is discovered through our space activities on the Moon, Mars, or Venus.
    If there is any contact to be made during the next twenty years it would most likely be by radio -- which would
    indicate that these beings had at least equaled our own technological level. An individual's reactions to such a
    radio contact would in part depend on his cultural, religious, and social background, as well as on the actions of
    those he considered authorities and leaders,and their behavior, in turn would in part depend on their cultural,
    social, and religious environment.

    The discovery would certainly be front-page news everywhere; the degree of political or social repercussion would
    probably depend on leadership's interpretation of (1) its own role, (2) threats to that role, and (3) national and
    personal opportunities to take advantage of the disruption or reinforcement of the attitudes and values of others.
    Since leadership itself might have great need to gauge the direction and intensity of public attitudes, to strengthen
    its own morale and for decision making purposes, it would be most advantageous to have more to go on than per-
    sonal opinions about the opinions of the public and other leadership groups. The knowledge that life existed in
    other parts of th euniverse might lead to a greater unity of men on earth, based on the "oneness" of man or on the
    age-old assumption that any stranger is threatening

    Much would depend on what, if anything, was communicated between man and the other beings: since after the
    discovery there will be years of silence (because even the closest stars are several light years away, an exchange
    of radio communication would take twice the number of light years separating our sun from theirs),the fact that
    such beings existed might become simply one of the facts of life but probably not one calling for action.Whether
    earthmen would be inspired to all-out space efforts by such a discovery is a moot question. Anthropological files
    contain many examples of societies, sure of their place in the universe, which have disintegrated when they have
    had to associate with previously unfamiliar societies espousing different ideas and different life ways; others that
    survived such an experience usually did so by paying the price of changes in values and attitudes and behavior.

    Since intelligent life might be discovered at any time via the radio telescope research presently under way, and
    since the consequences of such a discovery are presently unpredictable because of our limited knowledge of
    behavior under even an approximation of such dramatic circumstances, two re- search areas can be recommended:
    Continuing studies to determine emotional and intellectual understanding and attitudes -- and successive alterations
    of them if any -- regarding the possibility and conse uences of discovering intelligent extraterrestrial life.Historical
    and empirical studies of the behavior of peoples 1 and their leaders when confronted with dramatic and unfamiliar
    events or social pressures.x/ provide programs for meeting and adjusting to the implications of such a discovery.

    Studies would include: How might such information, under what circumstances, be presented to or
    withheld from the public for what ends? What might be the role of the discovering scientists and other decision makers
    regarding release of the fact of discovery? Such studies might help to Questions one might wish to answer by such
    Implications of man in space. The evolving man-in-space program may already be having its impact on values and attitudes.
    Given the people involved and the necessary risks in the program, it is likely that there will continue to be value conflicts
    in various parts of the general public as well as in the groups which must make decisions about the direction and extent
    of future activities in this area.

    The Mercury man-in-space program has already received much comment in the media, which illustrates the kind of
    conflicts that can be expected. There have been favorable reports, as typified by the articles on the astronauts, their
    families, and their training.- statements about the "stunt" characteristics of the program and about its apparent ten-
    dency to emphasize the glamorous astronauts rather than the scientific and engineering aspects and problems of the
    project. Commentators have remarked that wives and children are assets to astronauts, who can thus still, be consi-
    dered "normal" Americans; at the same time, their military status pemirs them to take risks which large portions of
    the general public might not otherwise consider appropriate for family men. A leading anthropologist who has studied
    this problem says the astronauts are not models for other women's husbands, not one little bit....

    Part of the feeling about space, which spreads right through the country, is women's objection to men's going there.
    The actual astronaut launching may highlight the question of a man's responsibility to family versus his willingness
    to risk death in space, This and similar questions will be resolved, probably not without emotional conflict, according
    to the particular personal and institutional values held by those involved in various aspects of the controversies.
    There have been unfavorable many.

    Here again is an opportunity to conduct before-and-after research on the implications of innovations for attitudes
    and values. Studies preceding the launching can also provide a basis for better informing the public so that it can
    realistically appreciate both the accomplishments and difficulties of the programas soon as possible to: It is recommen-
    ded, then, that base line studies be begun as determine the present knowledge of, beliefs and expectations about,
    and the values that underlie attitudes toward the Mercury program and the astronauts. These should be continuing
    studies so that the impact of events can be anticipated, evaluated, and planned for.

    If the Mercury program is successful it will be only a prelude to attempts to put man on the moon and some of the
    planets. Thus the implications of astro- nautic efforts, subsequent to Mercury, for attitudes and values should also
    be studied. Social observers have speculated that manned flight to the moon or Mars might restimulate the American
    frontier spirit, thereby supplying a new form O€ vicarious living for a large part of the public and perhaps inspiring
    some to participate in more challenging activities here on earth. Although the physical requirements for an astronaut
    probably will be compatible with the preferred American image of masculinity, the psychologi- cal characteristics
    appropriate for long flights through space, alone or in compact quarters with others, may be quite incompatible.

    Indeed, the very rigors which the astronaut may have to withstand and the special techniques that may be used to
    make it possible for him to withstand them (such as hiberna- tion or some form of drug treatment) may produce a
    great gap in the earth- bound man's identification with the astronaut. To the average man who is increasingly embed-
    ded in the security and organization of urban life, the physical threat and the physical and psychlc isolation implied
    in manned space activities may seem unpalatable and at a great emotional distance from the daily problems he finds
    challenging and interesting.

    Thus, the personalities of astronauts, the esoteric technical problems they solve, and the challenges they accept might
    become matters of indifference to the public, or, in one way or another, represent aspirations and ways of life that are
    undesirable. Their meaning of "pioneering, "frontiers,"and "conquest" may be different from ours. Since truly large man
    -in-space efforts will probably require international support, the states of mind in other nations will become important to
    the space program.

    This may be especially so for other nations who value planning of programs, for which we will need their contributions.
    The possibility must be considered that, except for short trips -- and even these perhaps biologically or genetically suicidal --
    man will not, after all, be able to go very far into space in the foreseeable future. The weight of shielding necessary to
    protect him from heavy cosmic ray particles and the intense blasts of energy from solar ilares (which are presently unpre-
    dictable) may make more than an occasional foray so expensive and unrewarding as to cancel out the advantages of
    studying space through man's first-hand experiences with it.

    To put man in space -- efforts not necessarily of optimum social use also bring about an intensive 'development af robot
    equipment that could do man's exploring for him. Application of the robot technology to other endeavors might be extensive
    and carry with it all the moral, social, ethical, and economic problems and opportunities which have been explored by
    the more thoughtful science fiction writers. This situation could lead to extraordinary efforts to find a way. It could be, if it
    should become necessary to accept the impossibility of first-hand experience in space, there may be important consequences
    for American values and aspirations.

    As a nation, we have come to believe ourselves conquerors of nature and equal to any task if we apply "science." In recent
    years this confidence has appeared to be spectacularly justified. man cannot for the foreseeable future go into space by any
    of the glamorous means so regularly predicted might so disrupt our self-confidence as to set off a chain of revisions in values
    which could either hirlder or improve our capacity to deal maturely with our other problems. The discovery that Whether or
    not man will be able to study space at first hand in the next two decades depends on information not now available.

    Since the outcome might go either way, the effects of later man-in-space efforts on values and attitudes in
    general, as well as with regard to such space activities in particular, require research to:

    Develop base line data on present attitudes toward and expectations about post-Mercury man-in-space efforts. These data
    should include indications of attitudes toward supporting or not supporting such activities and the reasons pertaining thereto.
    Assess changes in attitudes and expectations in the light of subsequent events and statements intended to inform, to encou-
    rage, or to discourage support of the program. Discover what symbols and ideas regarding man in space would be stimulating
    in cultures whose support is desired, but whose aspirations and ideals may not be similar to ours".

    Hopefully, for the interested reader, this opens the entire 250 pages report:

    Posts : 7824
    Join date : 2010-09-28

    Re: The United States of the Solar System: A.D. 2133 (Book One)

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:13 am

    Thank-you B.B. I think it's important to read the scholarly insider material. I think We the Peons need to think like Insiders -- even if we're not. We need to think like we're on the inside -- looking at the world from geosynchronous-orbit -- rather than thinking like powerless-peons running in the streets!! I'm sort of a Country-Club Completely-Ignorant Fool!!!

    Aquaries1111 wrote:Oxy wrote: The bottom-line of all of this madness is to 1. Determine who the major players have been in this solar system going back thousands of years. 2. Determine the governmental systems in this solar system going back thousands of years. 3. Determine the true history of the human race and this solar system. 4. To establish the best possible governmental system in this solar system - with the best long-term chances of facilitating responsible freedom.

    I'd like to know the true history of the human race and this solar system too.. Far too much has been held from us.. It's time we all found now our own "direct connection back to source".. This is the only way I believe... We are not going to make it on this planet without our "direct connection in knowing" becoming restored.. and we have to want this sooooo bad that we know we can't make it on this planet without it.. Who is tired of "second hand news" when we can have "first hand news"..

    I knew instinctively as a small child that the Egyptians did not build those pyramids with sweat equity and blood.. I just knew there was more to it than hands and hard work.. It's obvious some technology of sorts was used.. What else did we know instinctively without "being told"? What else can we know "instinctively" without hearing it as "second hand news"?  It's time for first hand answers!  and how many "true" intuitive seers have you met that can "see your life path" before you yourself can see or know.. I am "demanding" now a direct link to Source.. no more "second hand news"...
    Thank-you once again, A1. I'm tending to think the time might be right to fully reveal what I think might be a very problematic past -- but I still think that a lot of people will go nuts. Science-Fiction might be one of the better ways of getting the true story revealed to the general public (rather than Obama holding a press-conference, or something like that). Beware of those who might wish to destroy the world economy with 'Disclosure', an 'Alien Invasion', and 'The Second-Coming of Christ'. Look at this matter from ALL angles. I'm presently very incapacitated and miserable because of my spending way too much time trying to think about all of this madness. It's become significantly destructiive to me -- but I don't think there's any easy way to face reality. I keep thinking that several posters on the original Project Avalon -- and The Mists of Avalon -- know the whole story -- and might even be major players behind the scenes. But really, whatever we end-up doing probably won't make people happy. It might do just the opposite. I think there's a lot of weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth going on right now -- with a lot more to come in the near future. I think we've been living in a dream-world -- even though it has often seemed like a nightmare. Waking-up might be a very rude-awakening. We definitely need to know the whole truth about Ancient Africa. Regarding governance -- I seem to be gravitating toward a Minimalist-Theocratic United States of the Solar System -- wherein a system of Responsible-Freedom is kept in place by Powerful Forces who do not micromanage -- but who watch from a distance -- to make sure that the proper governance process remains in-place and uncorrupted. Do you see what I mean?? I like the American System -- but it presently seems to be run in a very corrupt and very incompetent manner. We don't have the Truly Best and Brightest at the Pinnacle of Governance -- or so it seems. 'Politics as Usual' often seems to be the 'Epitome of Stupidity'. On the other hand -- I am gaining an appreciation regarding how much of a challenge governance really is. Once again, I am seeking understanding rather than condemnation. But still, justice will have to be applied to past transgressions -- even though I continue to favor some sort of a reasonable-immunity for full-disclosure and full-cooperation. But this doesn't mean getting away with murder -- and keeping ill-gotten gain. I just do not currently favor the death-penalty or the damned-to-hell penalty. Incarceration, Education, and Restitution are integral parts of my approach to Restoring Law and Order to this sector of the galaxy. But then, Completely Ignorant Fools aren't exactly the Best and the Brightest. But why do we often act as if ignorance were a virtue??? Is ignorance really bliss? Is doubt a sin? If I'm as crazy and stupid as I KNOW some of you say I am -- then it should be a simple task to destroy this thread -- point by point. Go ahead! Give it your best shot!! Shout Loud and Proud!!! Make My Day!!!

    I just wish to restate and reinforce that my somewhat deep thinking has taken a HUGE toll on me personally. I don't think I'm crazy. I don't think I'm corrupt. I don't do anything creepy or supernatural. My references to an Ancient Egyptian Deity have been honest descriptions of what actually happened to me (probably as a result of my internet posting -- and who I might be reincarnationally). I don't do hypnosis of any kind (and I never have or will). I don't do OBE's (never have -- never will). I don't belong to any secret societies. I don't attend any church presently. I DO feel VERY tired and fatigued CONSTANTLY. My ears ring loudly all the time. I don't have hallucinations of any kind (and I never have). I feel as if I have been fighting a losing battle my entire life -- to find peace, happiness, and success. I think I was a born genius -- but the fatigue and disillusionment thing has truly turned me into a completely ignorant fool (Guilty as Charged). I seem to be able to visualize complex concepts and plans -- yet I seem to be powerless to do anything of substance with these concepts and plans. There are some VERY interesting aspects to my life which you can identify if you study this entire thread very carefully. I have hinted at a lot of things -- without stating them plainly. I continue to think that this thread is a VERY useful resource regarding the battle that I think we all might be in the middle of. I am presently NOT happy with Humanity or Divinity -- although I wish to have a proper relationship with both. I truly feel like an Odd Man Out. I truly do NOT fit anywhere. I think I probably feel most comfortable around Ivy-League Theologians and Musicians (although they are WAY above me -- and I will never be on their level). I continue to think that my last couple of incarnations might make my hair stand on-end -- but I'm not sure exactly why. I continue to be completely non-hateful and non-hostile. I truly don't think I'm a threat (other than presenting radical and upsetting speculations). I continue to guarantee 'No Surprises' (and I'm not sure I'm capable of mounting any surprises!!). I don't smoke, drink,  or take drugs of any kind. I'm a vegetarian -- but I am not particularly health conscious -- although I go for brisk hour-long walks every day. I am not presently married (but I have been) -- and I have never been promiscuous -- although I have had plenty of opportunities. I sometimes use bad-words -- but I NEVER swear at anyone. I feel as if my life has been a complete waste -- and I often feel as if it would've been better if I had never been born.

    Here is another exciting episode of Sherry Shriner! I listen to these podcasts faithfully -- but I am not a true-believer. Sherry simply forces me to think about things which tie-into what I have covered within this thread. I think that Sherry is a disguised individual -- who might be more of an insider than one can imagine. Same goes for Dana and TREEE (see 'Three Interesting Ladies'). I often think I could seamlessly fit into 'Secret Government' type meetings and such -- but I think I'm probably WAY too much of an idealist and moralist to ever be 'One of the Boys'. I continue to think that I have HUGE potential (just kidding) for participation in solar system management activities (perhaps in a future incarnation -- but certainly not in this stupid incarnation). I am presently modeling a Ceremonially-Anglican and Conservative-Constitutionalist approach to Solar System Governance. What Would John Shelby Spong Say??? What Would Ron, Rand, and Alex Say??? I'm truly a Nobody with Big-Plans (to make me feel like a somebody). "I Am Somebody!!" BTW -- my posts jump around a lot -- which is partly bad writing -- and partly a conscious effort to present a lot of contrasting thoughts within one particular post. I call this 'Contextual Superimposition'. I think I might be sort of a 'Beautiful Mind' -- but without the genius and delusions shown in the movie (although some might consider my science-fictional writing to be somewhat delusional). I guess I'm sort of a Fool-Savant. The Completely Ignorant Fools Shall Inherit the Earth. Fool Rule. One more thing. The 'Ancient Egyptian Deity' said they were 'Rich'. Nuff said.
    orthodoxymoron wrote:
    Ashera wrote:Then read the bible correctly:

    The Egyptians did not want the LORD crap...

    And who does is an enemy of life.

    Akhnaten = Mosis? Another result of some Rorschach test?

    One must see the whole plot, starting with the Etruscan-Roman subversion politics in North Africa.

    No wonder that historians want to blank that out, or?

    That is the root of "modern" monotheism and the belief in the LORD and in his nowadays liberalized and emancipated forms. That can be taken back anytime if power constellations allow that. Christian fundamentalists are getting off their starting blocks...

    Following Hugo Ball and his "Critique of the German Intelligentsia" all this led via Luther and Bismarck to WWI, and as its consequence to the Hitler fascism.

    Now the repitition in form of a farce seems to happen. Mathematically spoken: a dangerous simulation

    Windowless Monads...
    finally the "discharging mass" as Elias Canetti put it

    Who were the Gods and Godesses of Egypt??? I'm not necessarily asking about Egyptian Mythology. I'm asking about the Deities Behind the Mythologies. What was the Pre-Exodus "Law of God"?? The Law and God revealed in the Pentateuch seem problematic and dysfunctional to me. I desire a solid and pure Ancient Theological Foundation upon which to build in modernity -- but I'm not seeing one. I suspect that it might exist -- but where is it??? When I read the first five books of the Old Testament -- I get the sinking-feeling that we have a "God-Problem". The New-Testament seems to attempt to make this "God-Problem" go away -- but the results are somewhat unsatisfactory and unsatisfying. I like the Teachings Attributed to Jesus -- but something is still wrong -- even within the Gospels. I have suggested the possibility of Responsibility-Based Law as being a proper foundation for Responsible-Politics, Responsible-Religion, and Responsible-Business -- yet I continue to be quite irresponsible and ineffective. I have been considering a Ceremonial-Anglican and Conservative-Constitutional approach to Solar System Governance -- yet I really don't know what the hell I'm doing. I'm just very dissatisfied with the way things are. I like the Theological Idealism of Ellen G. White -- yet there are HUGE problems with this prophetess -- and with the church she founded. I keep wondering if there is a hidden and proper unification of law, politics, and religion -- lurking somewhere in Ancient Babylon and Egypt??!! I like thinking about this while watching the 1963 classic "Cleopatra" (Elizabeth Taylor).
    Here is an example of the sort of thing we should continue to struggle with. Make no mistake about it -- we are in the middle of a spiritual-war -- which could morph into a physical-war of a most startling nature. This is NOT an easy path which I am mapping within this thread. It takes you through Heaven, Hell, Purgatory -- and Who Knows Where Else??!! The Jesuits know what I'm talking about. I don't necessarily like them -- and I'm sure they don't like me -- but I respect their discipline and scholarship. I still think it might be cool to hang-out with the Jesuits on Mt. Graham -- but they'd probably hang me -- in more ways than one. They do that sort of thing, you know.


    I wish to be theologically and politically idealistic -- but the historical examples of politics and religion are generally a mess. Please -- Please -- Please Keep Struggling with Politics and Religion. Don't just chase Aliens, UFO's, Disasters, and Sensational Speakers. Keep Studying Politics and Religion. I am attempting to retain as much historical material as possible -- but there are No Sacred Cows in my Political and Theological Zoo. 'Heresy' you say?? So Burn Me!! But please allow me to make myself much more 'presentable' before you make me a public-example. One more time, please consider these two documentaries. They aren't high-quality or fast-paced -- but when carefully watched -- I have found them to be most enlightening.

    Then, please consider rewatching:

    1. 'The Last Temptation of Christ'.
    2. 'A Beautiful Mind'.
    3. 'Day the Earth Stood Still'.
    4. 'Legion'.
    5. 'Stargate Continuum'.
    6. 'Stargate'.
    7. 'Cleopatra'.
    8. The Complete Fifth Series of 'Dr. Who'.
    9. 'The Agony and the Ecstasy'.
    10. 'Raiders of the Lost Ark'.
    11. 'Pinky and the Brain'.
    12. 'Dogma'.
    13. 'Oh God!'.
    14. 'Contact'.
    15. 'V' (old and new).
    16. 'Avatar'.
    17. 'Battlestar Galactica'.
    18. '2012'.
    19. 'The Pelican Brief'.
    20. 'Star Wars'.
    21. 'East of Eden'.
    22. 'Brides of Christ'.
    23. 'Independence Day'.

    -- all in the context of 'Archangelic Queens of Heaven and the United States of the Solar System' -- in the context of 'Project Avalon' and 'The Mists of Avalon' -- in the context of a hypothetical 'Orion-Sirius-Aldebaran-Atlantean-Babylonian-Egyptian-Grecian-Roman-British-American Empire'. Finally, take a very close look at Viktor Schauberger and Pope Pius XII. I have very mixed-feelings about Pope Pius XII -- as I continue to wonder who REALLY directs Pontiffs, Queens, and Presidents?! His silence during WWII was deafening -- but who and what did Pacelli REALLY have to deal with behind the scenes??!! To one and all -- good and bad -- human and otherwise -- make sure that you do NOT throw out the baby with the bathwater. I continue to wish to change as much as possible -- for the betterment of all-concerned -- while changing as little as possible -- so as NOT to destroy the fragile civilization in this solar system. I am NOT representing this thread as being 'The Truth'. It is merely a literary-device designed to prepare all of our minds for 'The Truth'. I could say a helluva lot more -- but I choose not to -- for a variety of reasons. BTW -- try to find a couple of old TV miniseries titled 'Blood Feud' and 'The Word'. Word_(novel) I thought they were both quite good -- and quite revealing. How many 'Christians' over the past 2,000 years have actually followed the Teachings Attributed to Jesus?? Perhaps there have been very few genuine Christians. Perhaps there are very few genuine Christians presently. I seem to have identified a problem -- yet I seem to not be living up to what Jesus taught. Not even close. I think I might be in huge trouble because of this -- and because of a lot of reincarnational bad-karma aka karmic-debt. The track-records of politics and religion (of all varieties) have not been very good throughout the centuries. Political and Religious Imperialism Sucks.

    True or False -- I still think that a devotional and academic study of the Bible is an excellent mental and spiritual exercise. IMHO -- the theologies and mythologies throughout history are mixtures of truth and error -- fact and fiction -- good and evil. However, I think that it is very necessary for people to think about politics and religion on a daily basis -- so as to not be led as lambs to the slaughter. Consider "The Gospel Blimp". 1. 2. "George and Ethel are concerned about the salvation of their next-door neighbors, but don't know how to reach them with the good news of Jesus Christ. During an evening get-together of George and Ethel's Christian friends, everyone is captivated by the sight of a blimp flying overhead. Then Herm gets a bright idea: why not use a blimp to proclaim the Christian message to the unchurched citizens of Middletown? The group incorporates, buys a used blimp, hires a pilot, then commences to evangelize their hometown by towing Bible-verse banners, 'firebombing' folks below with gospel tracts, and broadcasting Christian music and programs over loudspeakers. But a series of misadventures puts the blimp ministry in jeopardy. And George becomes increasingly uneasy about the methods and business practices of International Gospel Blimps Incorporated and its "Commander", Herm. Do the personal sacrifices made by the group's members justify the results? And will George and Ethel's next-door neighbors ever receive the gospel message?"

    In the Gospels, Jesus is both friend and foe of the church. I feel as if I am both friend and foe of the church. My thoughts about church and state -- over the past five years -- have been rather upsetting to me. I have tried to formulate solutions -- but the solutions scare me almost as much as the problems. I don't think there are any clean, neat, and happy solutions to the mess we're in. If the bad guys and gals are in charge -- we're in trouble. If the good guys and gals take over -- we'll still be in trouble -- and possibly in even more trouble. It's sort of like an inoperable brain tumor. One can see the damn thing on the CAT Scan -- but still be unable to do a damn thing about it. How do we remove the problems -- without destroying our civilization??? As I have said so many times, I have a very bad feeling about both Divinity and Humanity -- and I certainly don't see things improving anytime soon. Cleaning-up the solar system might make things worse (at least in the short-term) -- and the Human Race might not survive (by accident or design). I feel as if I need to think about something else. I seem to be digging a deeper and deeper grave for myself. One has to know when to stop -- and I think I drove right through the last dozen stop-signs. As I continue to attempt to sort things out -- with the best of intentions -- I mostly just wish to cry and cry and cry. It's too much to properly take-in -- and to then render a just verdict. How many people are REALLY struggling with all of this??

    A while ago, I suggested some population figures (Two-Billion Surface, Two-Billion Sub-Surface on Earth -- and Four-Billion Throughout the Rest of the Solar System). This was intended as a place of beginning -- to facilitate discussion -- but no one seemed to be interested. Anyway -- I am NOT dogmatic about those particular numbers -- but I certainly think we have plenty of people on Earth presently. Also -- Solar System Colonization and Sub-Surface Living Should be Voluntary -- with appropriate incentives. I obviously don't have this all figured-out. I am really just exploring various options -- and questioning what I was taught as a youth. Really -- I am questioning everything -- in a mostly respectful manner. However -- I have used some rather brash language, imagery, and links to make my points -- and make all of us think. I am NOT Anti-God -- but I think that we need to be VERY careful who we trust and obey. I will be going through this thread at the pace of one page per day -- and I will be doing very minor editing while I attempt to achieve a PhD-Level understanding of "Archangelic Queens of Heaven and the United States of the Solar System". The jokes are over folks. Now I get Sirius. I've been playing Softball. Now I play Hardball.

    I have ammended the following portion of the Constitution of the United States of the Solar System (removing the bold-print sentence):

    We the People of the United States of the Solar System, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of the Solar System.

    Article 1.

    Section 1
    All legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States of the Solar System, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives. All Elected Representatives of We the People of the United States of the Solar System shall vote according to the Will of the People as Recorded Daily by Internet Voting.

    While I wish to involve the General Public in Solar System Governance -- this particular sentence seemed to be too open-ended. I had repeatedly requested input regarding this matter -- with no response whatsoever. 10,000 U.S.S.S. Representatives should provide a satisfactory interface with the Public. I am open to alternatives -- but I'm pretty much ending my current efforts to discuss this thread. My efforts are morphing into a very-private and very-intense personal-war.

    I have also stated that I thought the Teachings Attributed to Jesus should trump Canon Law -- but that a Responsibility-Based System of International, Interplanetary (and even Intergalactic) Law -- in a Canon Law Format -- might be optimal. I realize this is meddling -- and I apologize. The 'Cathedral Thing' is probably a sore-spot as well. What is it they say about 'asking for forgiveness -- rather than begging for permission'??!! I have kept this tempest in a teapot VERY low key -- and I intend to continue to do so -- until such time as the Benevolent PTB might decide otherwise.

    As you know, I have been thinking WAY outside of the box, to attempt to deal with the madness. I get the impression that the vast majority of humanity don't have a clue about what they are in the middle of. The more I learn -- the more I know that I don't have a clue -- and that I'm destroying myself by thinking about various radical and upsetting possibilities. What if we will be judged by our internet activities?? What if the Internet is at the core of the Investigative-Judgment??? I'm going to keep reviewing the territory already covered in this thread -- but the Eureka Phenomenon might be Most Shocking -- and I hesitate to say much more than I've already said. Thank-you for bearing with me -- and going the extra mile. What if there is already a United States of the Solar System somewhere else in the galaxy??? What if this thread is complete nonsense??? What if I really am delusional and insane??? Whatever the case may be, please keep looking at everything from all angles -- all the time. A shake-up at the top won't necessarily create Peace on Earth. The general-public may have to be shaken (not stirred), as well. We might not like the Road to Utopia one little bit. An idealistic solar system government might have to be somewhat harsh -- in a good way -- as Latter-Day Tough-Love. We might not like what's best for us. Again, I think we need to look very carefully at a Responsibility-Based Legal-System. Should Responsible-Politics and Responsible-Religion be solidly based upon Responsible-Law?? What about Responsibility-Based International, Interplanetary, and Intergalactic Law??? Placing Responsibility at the Center of Everything might be more difficult than we can imagine. I Might Be a Completely Ignorant Fool -- But That Doesn't Mean That I'm Wrong. I have tried to make all of us think -- including (and especially) myself -- but this thread just slightly scratches the surface of the matter -- and I know it. I am NOT a Know It All. I'm really not. I just wanted to talk -- and say an "Eschatological Namaste and Godspeed" to all of you. This is sad. It's hard to say "Good-Bye".

    Aquaries1111 wrote: I think the main problem is the "Meme" problem... Beliefs about God being Good and the Devil being Bad.. and all these other archangels still looking to be worshipped to one degree or another.. I heard an expression once that went like this: "We are what we are"... I am Spirit in a Body and my name is Debra.. Do the Gods even care who or what I am? Should I care who or what they are? Meet me in the Dreamstate.. there I can easily be found and known.  Ah yes and that Cleopatra movie is worth another watch.. I'd say...
    Thank-you A1. I guess I'll continue thinking about an Ancient Theocratic and Traditional Reptilian Universe -- in conflict with a Recent Freedom-Seeking Human-Populated Earth -- complete with a 'Reptilian God' and a 'Human God' -- wherein one race's 'God' would be the other's 'Satan'. Interdimensional-Reptilian Souls might be common to both races. We might be 'relatives'. I have no idea if this is true -- but I'm attempting to live with this hypothesis for a few months or years -- to see if there is any validity to it. It's bothering me a lot -- because it seems absurd -- yet somehow true. Who knows, this Reptilian and Grey stuff might just be an Alphabet-Agency Mind-Control Experiment -- or something equally insane.

    BTW -- what did you think about the last link in my last post?? I thought it was sort of creepy -- especially the last part. Was that an actual shapeshifting entity -- or just advanced special effects?? Has there been anything prophetic in my last few posts?? Remember that I don't necessarily approve of the links in my posts.

    I think I'll rewatch 'Cleopatra'. I like the combination of Egypt and Rome -- in English. I like thinking about this thread while watching it -- but I have a somewhat vested interest in doing so. This thread is really scaring me. I have no idea what I'm really dealing with -- who I am -- or what the stakes might be. I keep feeling oppressed, tricked, trapped, defeated, etc, etc, etc -- and it feels horrible.

    I'm trying to think in terms of Humanity governing Humanity within this Solar System for a very long time. I'd love to have God solve everything by taking all of us to Heaven -- but what if this involved becoming Draconian Reptilians who are Absolutely Obedient to a Theocratic Reptilian Queen??? I'm thinking about things which are highly disruptive and upsetting -- and I don't wish this sort of thing on anyone.

    I don't have a 'need' for anything in this thread to be 'true' or 'right'. This is just an unconventional experiment. I'ts just a strange manner of thinking -- which might yield something of value to someone. I'd actually prefer that most of this thread be shown to be absolutely false.
    Aquaries1111 wrote:Oxy says: Someone walked around the side of my house, and looked in my window at me today -- and I told them I was calling the police. If this was anyone who might be reading this thread -- please knock next time. I've been told that I have been observed while showering and while walking my dog. I'm aware of the existence of VERY covert means of observing and terminating people -- so I'm a bit on-edge.

    I think a little paranoia might be setting in Oxy... Just like your last downed internet issue.. Common sense told me then it was probably something "technical".. There are many out there, Kerry Cassidy, etc.. who think the ptb can kill them off.  I think people give far too much power to the ptb's.. as if they have nothing better to do than "bop people off".. You said you haven't had OBE's and never will.. it seems you are "setting yourself up" for less experiences than you could possibly have with that kind of mindset.. Anyhow, your last link which you asked me to comment on was some music video.. which I could only watch 10 seconds of and then had to turn it off.. held no interest for me at all.. if you can post the link I'll be more than happy to look at it.. shapeshifting video links are usually "manipulated".. so I wouldn't spend too much time speculating on the "creepy" that they create deliberately in them videos.. This was your last link "in this thread".
    Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they're NOT out to get me. The 'Ancient Egyptian Deity' said "I'm tired of keeping you alive!" and "I could snap my fingers, and you'd be dead!" They also described observing me throughout my hour-long walks with my dog -- and someone on the internet told me that I was observed while showering. I am aware of 'remote-viewing' and also the ability (through technology?) of some to stand in someone's house -- completely invisible -- or so they say. I have been threatened on the internet with being "Punished by God" and also told that "I would be hiding under the rocks" at the 'end of the world'. I have been called "Satan". I have been told that women and children deserved to be eaten-alive by wild-animals in the Roman Colosseum. There's more. A lot more. Even without any direct hostility and threats -- the Book of Revelation is quite enough to cause one (with even a casual belief in the Bible) to become rather paranoid -- and worry about being a "Sinner in the Hands of an Angry God". I had a computer fried by viruses after calling the occupants of the Moon and Phobos "Bastards". I'm not OK with someone walking around the side of my house, and looking in the window at me. And really, there is an openness in society and on the internet presently -- which hasn't always existed -- and the subjects I have been discussing were once MUCH more forbidden than they are now -- but that doesn't mean that no one is angered by my speculations and observations. I seem to remember hearing something about that last music video -- regarding an actual 'entity' being shown -- but I can't remember for certain. Some think that between now and the end of the year -- things will significantly go to hell.

    I have represented most of my internet work as being 'Political and Theological Science-Fiction' -- but I didn't make-up the contents of this post. Now I'm going to try to cheer myself up by reading the first five books of the Old Testament. How many people are presently living in complete obedience to the Pentateuch?? I guess I give a rather low-key theological twist to the ranting and raving of people such as Alex Jones and David Icke. My Apocalyptic-Imagination is more vivid and detailed than I can ever describe on the internet. I sometimes imagine that I am attempting to negotiate an 'Alternative to Armageddon'. I don't doubt that there are VERY Serious and Ancient Unresolved Solar System Issues -- but I'm not presently promoting an 'Utter-Destruction Final-Solution'. Have I gone soft??? Being nice and reasonable doesn't seem to work. Should I get tough? No more 'Mr. Nice-Guy'? I truly feel as if I am in conflict with both Divinity and Humanity -- for a variety of reasons. Mankind seems to be HIGHLY Problematic -- but the Divine Handling of This Grave Situation seems to be just as problematic. What the hell is going-on here??? Do I really wish to know???
    Aquaries1111 wrote:Oxy,

    I think if you see this "Egyptian Diety" again.. you need to laugh in its face.. Oxy seriously, any great teacher will teach you self empowerment.. not to grovel at Diety's feet because it says it is keeping you alive.. See through this and stop letting your emotions being played with..

    I was very neutral with the 'Ancient Egyptian Deity'. I was friendly -- but I kept asking hard questions -- most of which went unanswered. A common response was "You know I can't tell you that". I continued posting on 'The Mists' throughout our 'contact period' -- and I used some of the information gleaned from these encounters to enhance my internet posting -- even though I was very tactful and indirect. I made no 'non-disclosure agreement' with them -- although they did not want me to be too direct and too revealing. If I encountered them today, I would continue to be mostly neutral and questioning. I often felt a bit like Chad Dekker questioning Anna in 'V'. 1. 2. 3. 4. You don't suppose??!! The subject of this thread "Archangelic Queens of Heaven and the United States of the Solar System" is my attempt to communicate a somewhat more sophisticated version of the stereotypical 'Alien Invasion' scenario.

    "Beware of Undod the Sun-God!!"
    Aquaries1111 wrote: It amazes me how people spout out that they used to be King Tut in a past life, or an Ancient Egyptian Diety, or a very important King or Queen.. and then initiate others into thinking they too have importance from past lives and such.. This could be related to some kind of "Messiah Syndrome".. You know how many other beings would like to "take our place, now".. and can't because they do not have a "body"?  I think we humans underestimate ourselves and put too much power onto others thinking they are wiser, more powerful, godlike.. We forget it is us humans that currently hold "the wildcard".. We are the "current" now.. we are the change.. we call the shots.. we steward this planet.. we are the kings and queens now... and what of all the secrets people hold dear to their hearts because they have been told not to share.. and so they build up this energy around themselves when they walk and talk and in their own imagination secretly telling themselves.. "I know something you don't know".. Secrets are over.. We forget that we do not, nor cannot "own thought".. we cannot lock it up in a box and tell ourselves we are the only one who knows.. and I'm keeping it secret.. There are no more secrets anymore, despite what one believes.  God sees everything.. "everything". Once we can see ourselves on "equal footing" as everyone else then who has the power? We all do of course.. why would we want more power over our very own.  Consciousness merges with other consciousness upon "agreement".. Anyone, diety or otherwise who tells you to keep secrets and that they cannot share information with you for whatever reason.. put up your guard and see the red flag.. I'd run a mile from that being.. it's obvious they are trying to pull the wool over your eyes..

    A little comedy to lighten up the air... take your pick.

    I don't know who the 'Ancient Egyptian Deity' really was -- but they seemed to be VERY intelligent -- yet sometimes their logic and comments seemed to be decidedly lacking. I am merely considering various possibilities -- without latching on to any one of them. I am leaning toward the contents of this thread -- but I simply do not have the resources to properly test that which I have conceptualized. When I refer to 'Said Deity' I am merely reporting on a very small and select portion of what happened to me in connection with whoever this being was. They were quite exceptional -- whoever they were. Once again, I am beginning a review of the territory I've already covered -- and I intend to be much more serious and scholarly. One more thing. I applied for an FOIA -- and now my mail service has stopped. That gave me a warm-fuzzy feeling. I could really feel the love. And you wonder why I'm a bit paranoid.
    orthodoxymoron wrote:
    Floyd wrote:
    orthodoxymoron wrote:Something really big and really bad seems to have been in control of Earth for many thousands of years.

    Yes its called the Church. Maybe only a couple of thousand of years though.
    Religious monopoly is big business sunshine and great for controlling masses in fear of Hell etc. Also for great for their mocking condescension towards ancient religious and philosophical traditions.

    Im sure Christ is turning in his grave after witnessing what those clowns have done to other great civilisations and traditions in the name of the white mans burden over the centuries. Always working in cahoots with the relevent PTB at each moment.

    Utterly criminal.
    I tend to think that it goes way, way back in history -- and way, way beyond this little world. I am very interested in where the Teachings Attributed to Jesus REALLY originated. As you know, I have done a lot of Archangelic-Speculation -- and I suspect Archangels in Conflict -- with these teachings representing at least part of One Archangelic Perspective. The Historical Jesus might be a mixture of fact and fiction -- but the 'Christian Church' certainly has not reflected what Jesus taught in the Gospels. I am more distressed about all of this than you can imagine.
    That video clip was funny -- but I feel as if I'm part of an effort to save humanity -- which frankly seems to be running out of steam -- and I am VERY upset about what I think MIGHT be going on in this solar system. Should I be thinking in terms of a 'Good Reincarnational Cleopatra' v 'Bad Reincarnational Cleopatra' or at least a 'Pro-Humanity Cleopatra' v 'Anti-Humanity Cleopatra'? Or what about a 'Draconian-Reptilian Cleopatra' v 'Human Cleopatra'?? 'Good and Bad' -- 'Human and Reptilian' -- might be somewhat blurred and overlapping terms. Who knows??? My avatar might be quite representative of a very real behind the scenes struggle. What if Reptilians and Humans BOTH have Interdimensional-Reptilian Souls?? Once again -- this thread is HIGHLY speculative and science-fictional in nature. I am simply exploring several possibilities in a rather strange form of Political and Theological Science-Fiction. Would you meet with Reptilians in their Underground Bases?? Would you travel with them in their Unconventional Spacecraft?? What if Humanity is Fundamentally Reptilian in Nature and History?? Imagine combining 'V', 'Stargate Continuum', the 'Cold Blood' episode of 'Dr. Who', 'Cleopatra', and my very own 'Archangelic Queens of Heaven and the United States of the Solar System' -- in past, present, and future contexts. My version of science-fiction makes us work!!! It might even make us crazy!!! I'm already crazy -- don't you know??!! Researchers Beware!!! How many people are thinking about this sort of thing?? Probably not very many. What if my speculations were a significant part of 'Disclosure'?? Would people run in the streets?? If the excrement really contacted the fan -- would there be any place to hide?? Is Humanity SOL???

    Is This What We Were Before We Were Human??
    Is This What We Will Be When We Are No Longer Human??

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    Re: The United States of the Solar System: A.D. 2133 (Book One)

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:11 pm

    I wish to make it clear that this thread is a Moot Holy-War to help us think about difficult topics. This is difficult territory -- with lots of slippery-slopes. I honestly lack the brains and education to properly deal with the areas addressed -- so I continue whimper and whisper -- rather than proudly shouting. I continue to recommend reading Job through Daniel (KJV) straight-through (over and over) preferably while listening to Sacred Classical Music. Consider the Present-Tense (or even Past-Tense) Messianic-Language in Isaiah 43 (KJV):

    Isaiah 43:1  But now thus saith the LORD that created thee, O Jacob, and he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee
    , I have called thee by thy name; thou art mine.   2  When thou passest through the waters, I will be with thee; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee: when thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned ; neither shall the flame kindle upon thee.   3  For I am the LORD thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour : I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee.  4  Since thou wast precious in my sight, thou hast been honourable , and I have loved thee: therefore will I give men for thee, and people for thy life. 5 Fear not: for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west;   6  I will say to the north, Give up ; and to the south, Keep not back : bring my sons from far, and my daughters from the ends of the earth;   7  Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.   8  Bring forth the blind people that have eyes, and the deaf that have ears.   9  Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the people be assembled : who among them can declare this, and shew us former things? let them bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified : or let them hear , and say , It is truth.   10  Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen : that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed , neither shall there be after me.   11  I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour .   12  I have declared , and have saved , and I have shewed , when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God.   13  Yea, before the day was I am he; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work , and who shall let it? 14  Thus saith the LORD, your redeemer , the Holy One of Israel; For your sake I have sent to Babylon, and have brought down all their nobles, and the Chaldeans, whose cry is in the ships. 15  I am the LORD, your Holy One, the creator of Israel, your King.   16  Thus saith the LORD, which maketh a way in the sea, and a path in the mighty waters;   17  Which bringeth forth the chariot and horse, the army and the power; they shall lie down together, they shall not rise : they are extinct , they are quenched as tow.   18 Remember ye not the former things, neither consider the things of old.   19  Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth ; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert.   20  The beast of the field shall honour me, the dragons and the owls * : because I give waters in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert, to give drink to my people, my chosen. 21 This people have I formed for myself; they shall shew forth my praise.   22  But thou hast not called upon me, O Jacob; but thou hast been weary of me, O Israel.   23  Thou hast not brought me the small cattle of thy burnt offerings; neither hast thou honoured me with thy sacrifices. I have not caused thee to serve with an offering, nor wearied thee with incense.   24  Thou hast bought me no sweet cane with money, neither hast thou filled me with the fat of thy sacrifices: but thou hast made me to serve with thy sins, thou hast wearied me with thine iniquities. 25  I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.   26  Put me in remembrance : let us plead together: declare thou, that thou mayest be justified .   27  Thy first father hath sinned , and thy teachers have transgressed against me. 28  Therefore I have profaned the princes of the sanctuary, and have given Jacob to the curse, and Israel to reproaches.

    Consider the Present-Tense (or even Prophetic) King-David Language in Ezekiel 34 (KJV) with David Referred to as Prince:

    Ezekiel 34:1  And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying ,   2 Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy , and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD unto the shepherds ; Woe be to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the flocks?   3  Ye eat the fat, and ye clothe you with the wool, ye kill them that are fed: but ye feed not the flock.   4  The diseased have ye not strengthened , neither have ye healed that which was sick , neither have ye bound up that which was broken , neither have ye brought again that which was driven away , neither have ye sought that which was lost ; but with force and with cruelty have ye ruled them.   5  And they were scattered , because there is no shepherd : and they became meat to all the beasts of the field, when they were scattered. 6  My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and upon every high hill: yea, my flock was scattered upon all the face of the earth, and none did search or seek after them.   7  Therefore, ye shepherds , hear the word of the LORD;   8  As I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely because my flock became a prey, and my flock became meat to every beast of the field, because there was no shepherd , neither did my shepherds search for my flock, but the shepherds fed themselves, and fed not my flock;   9  Therefore, O ye shepherds , hear the word of the LORD;   10  Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against the shepherds ; and I will require my flock at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the flock; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; for I will deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be meat for them.   11  For thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out .   12  As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered ; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day.   13  And I will bring them out from the people, and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land, and feed them upon the mountains of Israel by the rivers, and in all the inhabited places of the country.   14  I will feed them in a good pasture, and upon the high mountains of Israel shall their fold be: there shall they lie in a good fold, and in a fat pasture shall they feed upon the mountains of Israel.   15  I will feed my flock, and I will cause them to lie down , saith the Lord GOD.   16  I will seek that which was lost , and bring again that which was driven away , and will bind up that which was broken , and will strengthen that which was sick : but I will destroy the fat and the strong; I will feed them with judgment.   17  And as for you, O my flock, thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I judge between cattle and cattle, between the rams and the he goats. 18  Seemeth it a small thing unto you to have eaten up the good pasture, but ye must tread down with your feet the residue of your pastures? and to have drunk of the deep waters, but ye must foul the residue with your feet?   19  And as for my flock, they eat that which ye have trodden with your feet; and they drink that which ye have fouled with your feet.   20  Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD unto them; Behold, I, even I, will judge between the fat cattle and between the lean cattle.   21  Because ye have thrust with side and with shoulder, and pushed all the diseased with your horns, till ye have scattered them abroad;   22  Therefore will I save my flock, and they shall no more be a prey; and I will judge between cattle and cattle.   23  And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even my servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd .   24  And I the LORD will be their God, and my servant David a prince among them; I the LORD have spoken it.   25  And I will make with them a covenant of peace, and will cause the evil beasts to cease out of the land: and they shall dwell safely in the wilderness, and sleep in the woods * .   26  And I will make them and the places round about my hill a blessing; and I will cause the shower to come down in his season; there shall be showers of blessing.   27  And the tree of the field shall yield her fruit, and the earth shall yield her increase, and they shall be safe in their land, and shall know that I am the LORD, when I have broken the bands of their yoke, and delivered them out of the hand of those that served themselves of them.   28  And they shall no more be a prey to the heathen, neither shall the beast of the land devour them; but they shall dwell safely, and none shall make them afraid .   29  And I will raise up for them a plant of renown, and they shall be no more consumed with hunger in the land, neither bear the shame of the heathen any more. 30  Thus shall they know that I the LORD their God am with them, and that they, even the house of Israel, are my people, saith the Lord GOD.   31  And ye my flock, the flock of my pasture, are men, and I am your God, saith the Lord GOD.

    Here is some more Davidic-Language in Ezekiel 37. God is clearly God -- and David seems to be a Prince, Ambassador, and King. How might we understand Jesus Christ as the Son of David -- the Son of God -- and the God-Man -- in light of the three chapters in this post??

    Ezekiel 37:1 The hand of the LORD was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the LORD, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones,   2  And caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, there were very many in the open valley; and, lo, they were very dry. 3  And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live ? And I answered , O Lord GOD, thou knowest .   4  Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the LORD.   5  Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live :   6  And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live ; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.   7  So I prophesied as I was commanded : and as I prophesied , there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together , bone to his bone.   8  And when I beheld , lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them.   9  Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy , son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain , that they may live . 10  So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived , and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding * great army.   11  Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say , Our bones are dried , and our hope is lost : we are cut off for our parts.   12  Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.   13  And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,   14  And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live , and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.   15  The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying ,   16  Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:   17  And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.   18  And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying , Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?   19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.   20  And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.   21  And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone , and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:   22  And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:   23  Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwelling places, wherein they have sinned , and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.   24  And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd : they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.   25  And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt ; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.   26  Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.   27  My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.   28  And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.

    These three chapters are interesting -- especially in light of the fact that they were supposedly written 300-400 years after King David -- and 600-700 years before Jesus Christ!! What's going on here??!! I continue to think that King David -- King Solomon -- and the Queen of Sheba -- are highly interesting!! Consider possible parallels throughout the Bible -- and throughout history. Are there Archangelic-Connections?? Is Reincarnation a possible key to understanding what I just said?? I honestly don't know. I am not a scholar or a mystic. But please don't shoot!! I'm just a Completely-Ignorant Fool!! Consider the following Study-List:

    1. Job through Daniel (KJV).
    2. Prophets and Kings (E.G. White).
    3. Solomon: Pharaoh of Egypt (Ralph Ellis).
    4. Isaiah: The Gospel Prophet (M.L. Andreasen).
    5. Daniel (Desmond Ford).
    6. 1928 Book of Common Prayer (and Liturgy).
    7. Sacred Classical Music.
    8. The Gods of Eden (William Bramley).
    9. The End of the World, A.D. 2133 (Lucio Silvestre).
    10. The Federalist Papers (and U.S. Constitution).
    11. This United States of the Solar System: 2133 A.D. Thread.

    I've just begun scratching the surface of this very deep study. The 3-23-15 Sherry Shriner show is highly interesting (to me anyway)!! I have no idea how much of it is true -- but even if 20% of it is true -- it is mind-boggling!!

    Last edited by orthodoxymoron on Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:49 am; edited 13 times in total

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    Re: The United States of the Solar System: A.D. 2133 (Book One)

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:55 pm

    Raven wrote:
    Raven wrote:
    The 13th Planet Dark Moon Lilith as the 'Hidden Nemesis of Wormwood Nibiru'
    and other NABS misidentifications
    A Deeper Look: Astrology Beyond the Traditional Planets

    Lilith - The Dark Moon

    (published in The Second Road newsletter, October 1998.)

    by Catt Foy

    copyright 1998, Catt Foy

    She is reputedly Adam's first wife, before Eve. She is known as a demoness, the killer of infants in their cradles. She is the original woman, who refused to be subjugated to a man's desires. Consort to both the devil and God himself, she is the enigmatic and mysterious Lilith.

    A little-known element in astrology charts, Lilith is known as the "dark Moon" and, as such, represents our "dark" or hidden emotional selves. According to Lois Daton, author of "Lilith, The Planet of the Doodler," the physical existence of Lilith was confirmed by the United States Weather Bureau in 1879. Lilith is the name used for two different celestial bodies - one is located in the asteroid belt and is not our subject here, the other is an invisible body orbiting the earth approximately three times farther away than the Moon, Luna. It is this Lilith which is of interest here.

    Lilith's placement in the chart is especially important to women, and represents the power of the original woman. In a man's chart, Lilith's placement will reveal the hidden power struggles or other issues he may have, resolved or unresolved, with the women in his life.

    Lilith was known to the Chaldean astrologers; the Egyptians called her Nephthys. The name Lilith is derived from the old Semitic word for night, "lel" or "lelath", in Arabic "laylah," which also means "ghost" or "spectre" in Hebrew. She is associated with the Death card in Tarot and with the goddesses Persephone, Hecate, Athena, Minerva. She is associated with the Owl, representing secrecy and wisdom, and she is frequently connected with cats.

    In Lilith astrology one can use three Lilith Moon’s. Black Moon Lilith, Asteroid Lilith and the lesser known Dark Moon Lilith. Together they work as a Triple Moon Goddess, which describes a process of transformation. The three Lilith’s are also useful in pinpointing which brand of Lilith energy is strongest in your chart and at which stage you may have the most issues with. After studying Eris in detail it is apparent to me that she is the higher octave of Lilith. Eris is the Uber-Dark Goddess and by combining her with the outer planets we can see how each corresponds quite neatly with three phases of the moon.

    To see the Lilith archetype in terms as a triple goddess makes total sense to me. After I wrote this post I discovered Demetria George had come up with a similar concept about Lilith. Comparing it to the bible story she says: ” The Asteroid Lilith describes the first stage in the mythical journey where she is suppressed, humiliated and flees in a fiery rage to the desolate wilderness. The Dark Moon Lilith depicts the pain of her exile where she plots and executes revenge. The Black Moon Lilith shows how she transmutes her distorted image back into its natural healthy expression” [1]

    Ishtara Raven: people all over the place on FB, and various forums are posting the most absurd crap, NIBIRU, annunaki…evil ET invasions, the whole gambit.

    Totanubis: Yep

    Totanubis: Last days of prophecy Raven; it is necessary and to be expected

    Totanubis: The 'great falling away from the cosmic truth' it is called

    Totanubis: Look at the new earth chart

    Totanubis: I added the 15 days as 4 corners

    Totanubis: So August 9th - August 23rd 2012 is the third of the legislature and the fourth is September 27th - October 2012 of the executive function

    Ishtara Raven: are we in a WOC?

    Ishtara Raven: why am I so insensed at the blindness?

    Totanubis: This becomes the 'death of the antichrist' in law and then manifested from September 27 - October 11

    Totanubis: No deeper

    Totanubis: The 'judgement was written'

    Totanubis: August 23rd was the final day of the Zion imaged from the AntiZion

    Ishtara Raven: my dream last night was these two serpent snake hearts entwining, I was trying to help them entwine, but they were sort of fighting it and each had a side to tell me, I was downloaded with so much stuff, but all of what I mostly brought to my conscious mind is primal anger in a way. They finally merged into colors but i was struggling with them, arguing all night it seemed. I don’t know what it means.

    *** Totanubis: sent NewEarth.jpg ***

    Totanubis: Yes because of August 23rd

    Ishtara Raven: ok that makes sense it seems

    Ishtara Raven: it was like something was finalized

    Totanubis: Before the judgements can be executed they have to be legislated

    Ishtara Raven: but man i seriously became like the mediator of the century in this dream

    Totanubis: This legislation is 15 days a twin Woc mirrored in a 'Day of the Lord'

    Totanubis: Of course the witnesses' testimony see

    Totanubis: The 2 serpents are the lovehearts in the chart

    Ishtara Raven: yes i realised this

    Totanubis: Conception to Birth of antichrist blended with Anticonception to Antibirth of this same antiLogos energy

    Ishtara Raven: and in a weird way Tony, I felt I was helping them somehow and it is related to you and DD and us all, i was like a defender stating my case and listening to both sides

    Totanubis: The chart is clear to the days, even though they can’t read it

    Ishtara Raven: funny all day i thought of Oct 11th

    Totanubis: Just like the so called 2nd Sun or Nemesis, often associated with Nibiru and Wormwood, asteroids and comets, relates to the empty focus of the earth's orbit about the sun

    Totanubis: But generally, I now understand how to fully implement this Nibiru-2nd Sun NABS (New Age Bullshit)

    Totanubis: It has been always there lol

    Totanubis: It never left see, this Dark Moon or extra sun energy

    Totanubis: Both Nemesis as the 'hidden sun' and as Nibiru as the hidden moon

    Totanubis: It is the 4th generation spoken of in the bible….here are some quotes

    Genesis 15:15-17
    King James Version (KJV)
    15 And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age.
    16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.
    17 And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces.

    Hebrews 3:10
    Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do always err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.

    1 Peter 2:9
    But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

    Colossians 1:26
    Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

    Matthew 24:34
    Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

    Totanubis: He means the 3rd

    Matthew 16:4
    A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.

    Matthew 23:33
    Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

    Matthew 23:36
    Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

    Totanubis: Obvious that this relates to the second coming see

    Totanubis: All in John's gospel as the 'sending of the holy ghost' aka 'the comforter'

    Colossians 1:26
    Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

    This is the one lol

    Totanubis: Not to be found by the navel gazers
    16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.

    4th generation here means that the duality will be harmonised in 'brotherhood' mirrored in 'sisterhood'

    Totanubis: So all Old Adams and Eves are to 'play' Osiris-Set' and 'Isis-Nephthys' twinships to manifest the MI-IM or JCCJ cosmic twinship

    Totanubis: The name Amorites etc all relate to something called the 'battle of the kings'

    Totanubis: Abraham as a forerunner to Jacob 'wrestling' with the 'angeldemon' and such stuff

    Totanubis: To be RENAMED

    Totanubis: New World New Generation

    Totanubis: Abram Sarai become Abraham and Sarah

    Totanubis: Jacob becomes Israel

    Totanubis: I am using it as the New Planet, the 13th

    Ishtara Raven: yeah i saw this and it feels right to me

    Ishtara Raven: well it would be a good idea to address it

    Totanubis: It fits all of us very well, well when you take the extended astro definitions into account as the dynamic 13th and 14th star signs

    Totanubis: The feminine elders as the goddesses returning

    Ishtara Raven: yes i saw this feminine energy in the descriptions

    Totanubis: Lilith is often VERY much associated with the fundamentalist religions

    Totanubis: Why it is so potent as a transformation archetype and office

    Totanubis: Lilith is of course our Lucifera the sexchanged Satan himherself

    Totanubis: Succubi, Mother of all demons and so on

    Totanubis: Ok I give an overview

    Totanubis: It has to do with the seasons

    Totanubis: You know that 30 degrees define 1 sign as a month and as 30°

    Ishtara Raven: right

    Totanubis: The Lilith Moon is just like the 'Nemesis' Sun

    Totanubis: Aka this Nibiru-Annunaki-Giants BS

    Ishtara Raven: ah ok, unseen but still influencing

    Totanubis: Lilith takes 40 degrees to travel a sign

    Ishtara Raven: yes they don’t understand what it is

    Totanubis: Yes

    Ishtara Raven: instinctively they all know, but attach something 3-D to it like a
    planet, dark star ect, when its higher dimensional really

    Totanubis: So one year for 12x30=360 becomes 9 Lilith 'months' or cycles for 9x40=360

    Totanubis: It is the 'Little Season' of 90 days in 2014

    Ishtara Raven: wow that’s interesting

    Totanubis: Fully calibrated cosmically

    Totanubis: Indeed

    Ishtara Raven: also 9 months is a gestational period too

    Totanubis: The 40 degrees are well known and you can get the degrees from any more detailed ephemerides

    Totanubis: Exactly

    Totanubis: You got it

    Ishtara Raven: well I got that first, when you said 9 Lilith months

    Totanubis: The entire birth-antibirth cycle of the Rebirth is defined by seasons

    Totanubis: Now enter the ancients the record keepers

    Totanubis: Druids, Indians and adepts, alchemists

    Totanubis: Its the 'old wicca' as the modern Dragon omni-scientists

    Ishtara Raven: hehe

    Totanubis: If you search the web on Lilith Dark Moon you will find much confusion

    Totanubis: About what Lilith is. Many try to blend the science with the astrology and so on

    Ishtara Raven: well the one link you provided seemed pretty accurate

    Totanubis: Its much simpler than tha

    fates---: is Satan evil?

    Totanubis: No

    Totanubis: EVIL=LIVE

    Totanubis: And part of the duality necessary to create the Monadic Dyad from the Dyadic Monad

    Ishtara Raven: the false perception of oneself is what is evil in the sense of the word fates

    Totanubis: Yes Raven can explain the duality required to EXIST, but NOT necessary to become EXPRESSED

    Ishtara Raven: humanity has a great self esteem problem

    Totanubis: In the New World fates, in the places of the 'sanctum', the sanctuaries say

    fates---: is Lilith = Satan something to break free from?

    Ishtara Raven: no its something to realize and remember, the Goddess realized.

    Totanubis: Violence as you see it now will still exist, BUT become 'boxed' in, say in computer games or cyber space

    Totanubis: Then it will no longer be necessary, for people to carry guns to kill and shoot and protect things

    Totanubis: Something like that, think about it

    Totanubis: What is BAD and EVIL today will still exist in a 'parallel cyberspace' say

    Ishtara Raven: the shaitain or satan your referring to is the fake, the image that causes mankind to fail to see the face of god and vs versa, because humans cannot see the divinity, they cannot see their own in each other. And Abba cannot see his goddess.

    Totanubis: No fates you are to LOVE Lilith

    Totanubis: As your core and as part of yourself

    fates---: who is the enemy?

    Totanubis: What is considered evil today will all CONVERGE into a New form of starhuman sexuality

    Totanubis: Yourself, your ignorance your vanity your refusal to surrender to your higher disincarnate nature

    fates---: Yaldabaoth?

    THE13THBRIDGE: most peoples  greatest enemy is themselves

    THE13THBRIDGE: and; then the doors they leave open; esp; when they sleep at night

    Totanubis: REFUSAL=LASUFER

    Totanubis: Is the 'Original sin'

    THE13THBRIDGE: all kinds of things - fly in; and; fly through; and; out

    THE13THBRIDGE: and;it is so simple to block that

    Totanubis: Yes, but Yaldabaoth is simply a mental construct embodied AS the duality in all things

    THE13THBRIDGE: and, allow only those things; that are in alignment

    Ishtara Raven: yes the false perceptions of the self

    Totanubis: Yes, but Yalda is simply a mental construct embodied AS the duality in all things

    [2:10:49 PM] Thubanis: Any competent astrologer can then READ this chart Fates
    [2:11:02 PM] Thubanis: You can write your own book from the symbols
    [2:11:26 PM] Thubanis: AND for everyone, there are many online descriptions for the basics
    [2:11:40 PM] Thubanis: Like Jupiter in the 4th house Jupiter in Taurus
    [2:11:54 PM] Thubanis: Jupiter trine Uranus and square Mercury etc etc
    [2:12:05 PM] Thubanis: I can do this of course but many others can too
    [2:12:30 PM] fates---: hmm alright, ill see what i can find
    [2:12:38 PM] Ishtara Raven: well no one but you knows the Thuban interpretation as well though Tony, I am trying but I am not well versed in astrology as you
    [2:12:51 PM] Thubanis: Yes Raven and this I have emphasised many times
    [2:13:07 PM] Thubanis: Libra is linked to the New Moon and the Dragon Nodes
    [2:13:24 PM] Thubanis: Thuban uses EQUAL houses not Koch or Placidus
    [2:13:56 PM] Thubanis: Thuban returns the entire structure of the constellations to its origins and the birth of the astrology
    [2:13:58 PM] Ishtara Raven: right all that i realise, its the interpretations that are somewhat different as you have a deeper understanding of the symbols and such
    [2:14:44 PM] Thubanis: The major problem with the online stuff is House 6, as fates found out
    [2:15:06 PM] Thubanis: Everything else is very good if the analysis is competent
    [2:15:08 PM] Ishtara Raven: yeah some of the interpretations are out there
    [2:15:19 PM] Thubanis: They are actully often overcomplicating things
    [2:15:29 PM] Thubanis: I dont use sextiles and quartiles etc, as these are all finetunings
    [2:16:05 PM] Thubanis: And as the elementary structure is being reconfigured, the finetunings get worse and worse
    [2:16:22 PM] Thubanis: The emphasis in any chart are always Conjunctions and Oppositions

    [2:16:39 PM] Thubanis: Even Trines ands squares are becoming less potent
    [2:16:42 PM] fates---: like the placement of my black moon
    [2:16:53 PM] fates---: in the opposite house of my dragon node
    [2:16:55 PM] Ishtara Raven: right the major aspects
    [2:17:21 PM] Thubanis: So the old astrology raves on about the trines and the squares, as benevolent and malevolent respectively
    [2:17:29 PM] Thubanis: It is no longer so
    [2:17:46 PM] Thubanis: Squares can be VERY beneficial challenges
    [2:18:01 PM] Ishtara Raven: yes why i never read the Tarot in reverse
    [2:18:19 PM] Thubanis: BUT the Conjunctions are always valid as the eclipses see
    [2:18:26 PM] Thubanis: And fates' chart is full of them
    [2:18:29 PM] Ishtara Raven: i always thought reversal interpretation silly
    [2:18:39 PM] Thubanis: His chart is dominated by conjunctions and oppositions
    [2:18:56 PM] Ishtara Raven: lol sounds like mine
    [2:19:05 PM] Thubanis: Yes like Satan's reverse speech; total NABS humbug
    [2:19:22 PM] fates---: reverse speech?
    [2:19:28 PM] Thubanis: The pentagon is BOTH up and down in rotation in the DYNAMIC interpretations see?
    [2:20:07 PM] Thubanis: This 13th sign has made the hitherto static charts dynamic
    [2:20:10 PM] Ishtara Raven: well each Tarot card is an archetype, containing both light and dark aspects, i just always let the archtype speak and if i felt a negative influence i would say so, no need to reverse interpret
    [2:20:46 PM] fates---: interesting
    [2:20:54 PM] Ishtara Raven: i dont know i read Tarot very differently then most, i travel through the landscape of the symbols
    [2:20:58 PM] Ishtara Raven: and i feel things
    [2:21:22 PM] Ishtara Raven: so i guess i approach Astrology similarly, by feeling it out
    [2:22:06 PM] Thubanis: But here too I will put Lilith into it so there will be a later version
    [2:22:22 PM] fates---: can you send all the charts tony?
    [2:22:37 PM] fates---: it would be nice to see what everyone looks like
    [2:22:50 PM] Ishtara Raven: i can send you mine and james core chart if you like fates
    [2:22:56 PM] fates---: ok
    [2:23:03 PM] Michael: what celestial body corresponds to "lillith"
    [2:23:34 PM] Thubanis: The empty focus of the moons orbit around the earth Michael
    [2:24:07 PM] *** Ishtara Raven sent RavJamCore.jpg ***
    [2:24:53 PM] Thubanis: Just like the socalled 2nd Sun or Nemesis, often associated with Nibiru and Wormwood, asteroids and comets, relates to the empty focus of the earth's orbit about the sun
    [2:25:51 PM] fates---: wow very cool, thanks raven
    [2:26:00 PM] fates---: your signs are in almost the same place
    [2:26:05 PM] Thubanis: I will send the corecharts fates, after I have added Lilith to them
    [2:26:20 PM] Michael: the empty focus? could you elaborate?
    [2:26:44 PM] Thubanis: Simple geometry
    [2:26:53 PM] Thubanis: A circle has only 1 center as a focus
    [2:27:42 PM] Thubanis: Squash the circle, you get an ellipse with this center becoming two focal points say as defined in physical optics and the mathematical definition of conic sections, of what an ellipse is
    [2:28:39 PM] Ishtara Raven: hah susan your first house is in gemini, the twins, interesting
    [2:28:41 PM] Thubanis: Susan you gotta press save on this send if you want your chart as it is now
    [2:28:57 PM] Thubanis: Yes and Raven this is Thuban
    [2:29:09 PM] Ishtara Raven: yes i realise that
    [2:29:18 PM] Ishtara Raven: aquarius midhaven
    [2:29:22 PM] Ishtara Raven: download it Susan
    [2:31:18 PM] Thubanis: In Placidus Susan's ascendant  would be Gemini , but in Thuban it is Taurus and then CONJUNCT her Lilith as 12th house
    [2:31:48 PM] Thubanis: It is not much of a change, all the degrees stay the same of course
    [2:32:03 PM] Thubanis: But the houses change in the angles
    [2:32:16 PM] Thubanis: Because the houses are made EQUAL
    [2:32:29 PM] Ishtara Raven: she has a stellum in her 8th house too
    [2:32:33 PM] Ishtara Raven: doesnt surprise me
    [2:32:57 PM] Thubanis: So Thuban form puts Lilith in Susan's 12th house of the dreamers
    [2:33:32 PM] Ishtara Raven: yes i read that yesterday, very cool
    [2:33:56 PM] Thubanis: This is still the same in Placidus on a rough check lol
    [2:34:01 PM] Ishtara Raven: explains a lot of her abilities there too in house 12 as an astral walker
    [2:34:16 PM] Thubanis: So the old charts are close, very close in most cases
    [2:34:36 PM] Thubanis: I think someone born at the poles would see differences in the systems
    [2:34:55 PM] Thubanis: There the houses are very skewed
    [2:35:36 PM] Thubanis: But Raven, Susan and me have the same Lilith House but under different signs
    [2:35:58 PM] Ishtara Raven: Uranus retrograde in her 3rd house seems to reflect her prolific nature of communication and why she says people fear her energy, totally uranian infused with leo manamity....raven interpretation on the fly lol
    [2:36:00 PM] Thubanis: Mine is Pisces dreamer see and Susan's is in the dreamer house
    [2:36:29 PM] Thubanis: But the Tubans seem to be opposites in the Lilith definitions
    [2:36:43 PM] Thubanis: Aries and Libra and Leo and Aquarius
    [2:36:50 PM] Ishtara Raven: i thought my lilith was in 8th house?
    [2:36:54 PM] Thubanis: I commented on this before
    [2:37:24 PM] fates---: raven and rok = 8
    tony and susan = 12
    sui and fates = 6
    [2:37:26 PM] Thubanis: No you are in the 4th of the family in Aries; Rok as Aries is in the 8th
    [2:37:59 PM] Thubanis: In Aries you oppose now (in complementarity) Xeia's Lilith in Libra and Fates' Lilith in Libra
    [2:38:01 PM] Ishtara Raven: i dont know how you find it
    [2:38:09 PM] Thubanis: What?
    [2:38:15 PM] Thubanis: Ephemerides
    [2:38:22 PM] Ishtara Raven: the lilith in my chart
    [2:38:22 PM] Thubanis: Its a simple calculus
    [2:38:59 PM] fates---: oppose eh?
    [2:39:01 PM] Ishtara Raven: so its like behind the sun but the houses have rotated why its in aries 8th house?
    [2:39:04 PM] Thubanis: every 40 days Lilith travels 40 degrees so it takes a month and 10 days to go thriough one sign
    [2:39:38 PM] Thubanis: Yes, as siad it is the change in the sun per sign
    [2:39:50 PM] Thubanis: the elliptical center of gravity say
    [2:40:06 PM] Thubanis: I find a pic hang on
    [2:42:26 PM] *** Thubanis sent Lilith darkMoon.jpg
    [2:43:15 PM] Thubanis:
    [2:43:54 PM] Thubanis:
    [2:45:33 PM] Thubanis:
    [2:46:10 PM] Michael: you saying the midspace of the earth's shadow?
    [2:46:16 PM] Thubanis:
    [2:46:25 PM] Thubanis: No simple, simple geometry
    [2:46:37 PM] Thubanis: Definition of how a circle changes into an ellipse
    [2:46:59 PM] Thubanis: This underpins celestial mechanics from Copernicus to Kepler to Newton
    [2:47:35 PM] Ishtara Raven: ok so its like midway between earth and the moons apogee
    [2:48:01 PM] Thubanis: Those refs are all incomplete Raven, most emphasize the 'dark' aspects of Lilith as a Demon Mother symbolically
    [2:48:32 PM] Thubanis: But adding The Mother of all as in Revelation.12 HARMONISES ALL THIS AS YOU SHOULD KNOW
    [2:48:50 PM] fates---: that video is awesome :)
    [2:48:56 PM] Thubanis: This diagram is not to scale Raven
    [2:49:17 PM] Thubanis: Yes and as you can see in your chart Lilith is YOUR Descendant Fates
    [2:49:30 PM] Thubanis: I better finish it, instead of chatting here
    [2:50:02 PM] Thubanis: Like the center of gravity between Sun and Earth is WITHIN the Sun and not in a place in between Raven
    [2:50:11 PM] Ishtara Raven: right i see there are two versions, the actual dark moon called lilith and the empty focus moon which is a place and not an actual satellite which is called black moon lilith
    [2:50:42 PM] Thubanis: Not as bad with this empty focus of course as the Moon is not that much 'lighter' than the earth but still the foci are closer together
    [2:50:45 PM] fates---: make sense being what am i
    [2:51:07 PM] Thubanis: But it is THIS which changes the 30 degree month to 40 degrees ok?
    [2:51:19 PM] Thubanis: Yes this is the 'mixup'
    [2:51:22 PM] Ishtara Raven: wow
    [2:51:24 PM] Thubanis: There are 3 actually
    [2:51:27 PM] Thubanis: 3 lilith's
    [2:51:27 PM] Ishtara Raven: this is facinating
    [3:02:35 PM] Thubanis: It's from there that lilith derives as the oldest feminine of all even BEFORE the physical universe emerged from its metaphysical cocoon
    [3:02:59 PM] fates---: Apep is a snake see:
    [3:03:15 PM] Thubanis: Lilith = GODDESS = Barbelo, Raven
    [3:03:23 PM] Thubanis: Yes fates
    [3:03:45 PM] Thubanis: Rah-Apep became labelled as God-Satan and Osiris-Set etc
    [3:03:50 PM] Ishtara Raven: yes i know tony
    [3:04:16 PM] Thubanis: I gotta go and do fates chart I don't want to waste my time arguing
    [3:04:17 PM] fates---: Set fights Apep
    [3:04:23 PM] Ishtara Raven: i was trying to make a point about it to michael since he seems so perturbed on the names
    [3:04:40 PM] fates---: it is his job
    [3:04:46 PM] fates---: i think Ra did also
    [3:04:50 PM] fates---: on the other end
    [3:04:51 PM] Michael: what do you feel kundalini is exactly
    [3:05:08 PM] Thubanis: Anubis fights Set as Son of Apep fates indeed; so you see your higherD association with Anubis here
    [3:05:59 PM] fates---: makes sense, Anubis dosnt "agree" entirely with Set
    [3:06:08 PM] Michael: because to ascribe goddess qualities to it is rather making it out to be something more important than it is
    [3:06:26 PM] Thubanis: Anubis is then 'the sondaughter' of Uraeus the Egyptian symbol of the Kundalini
    [3:06:33 PM] Thubanis: The Serpent of Serpents and the symbol of the pharoah's power
    [3:06:54 PM] fates---:
    [3:07:16 PM] Thubanis: Anubis is the son of Set and Nephthys but also inseminated by Osiris
    [3:07:28 PM] Thubanis: So Anubis becomes Isis 'stepson'
    [3:07:45 PM] THE13THBRIDGE: remind me to tell you another time
    [3:07:51 PM] Thubanis: He is the duality harmonised say as Hermaphroditus
    [3:08:04 PM] fates---: Bi sexual
    [3:08:14 PM] Thubanis: So then you can retell all this as the story of Aphrodite and Hermes and Hephaestus
    [3:08:32 PM] Thubanis: YES
    [3:08:45 PM] Thubanis: BOTH 6 and 9 are bisexual 'unclean'
    [3:08:49 PM] fates---: Set is bisexual too
    [3:08:54 PM] Thubanis: Hathor's Miror and Anubis
    [3:09:10 PM] Thubanis: Set is sexchanged
    [3:09:26 PM] Thubanis: From Lucifer to Lucifera or Satan to Satania
    [3:09:43 PM] Thubanis: There is NO sexchange for the 'Devil' as this is the fake
    [3:09:57 PM] Thubanis: The only true evil is the DEVIL=LIVED
    [3:10:06 PM] fates---:
    [3:10:19 PM] fates---: is that unclean?
    [3:10:26 PM] Thubanis: The DESIRE of LILITH is the sexdrive cosmic
    [3:10:51 PM] Thubanis: It is demonic UNTIL Lilith becomes a manyness in New Eves
    [3:11:12 PM] Thubanis: Nono unclean means 'middle path' in the tree of life
    [3:11:25 PM] Ishtara Raven: [3:04 PM] Michael:
    <<< what do you feel kundalini is exactly

    it is the primordial divine energy, that created all things Michael and is the mother and father of all things. This is the same energy that transformed the body of Jesus. It is eternal and life giving and highly sexual at its deepest levels. It is the urge to procreate.

    [3:11:29 PM] fates---: So Set, Anubis, Horus, Ra?
    [3:11:41 PM] Thubanis: The right path is even numbers as females and the left path is male numbers as odd
    [3:11:55 PM] Michael: kundalini is not the primordial divine energy that created all things
    [3:12:05 PM] Thubanis: No the clean male path is 1-3-5-8
    [3:12:14 PM] Michael: its just a tool of that energy
    [3:12:15 PM] Thubanis: Osiris-Horus-Thoth-Ptah
    [3:12:32 PM] fates---: Horus is Daath?
    [3:12:35 PM] Thubanis: The clean female path is 2-4-7
    [3:12:51 PM] Thubanis: Isis-Bastet-Nephthys
    [3:13:03 PM] Thubanis: Daath=11 is the 'hidden' path
    [3:13:13 PM] Thubanis: Daath is 6-9-11
    [3:13:15 PM] Michael: Ive really gotta break this down for you guys...
    [3:13:31 PM] Thubanis: Hathor-Anubis-Daath=Lilith say
    [3:13:53 PM] Thubanis: Set=10
    [3:14:06 PM] fates---: Kingdom is Set
    [3:14:22 PM] Thubanis: An even number by definition but faking Dragquen as 10=1+0=1 as Osiris' 'brother'
    [3:14:43 PM] Thubanis: Malkuth is root = 10 and  Kether=Crown=1
    [3:14:53 PM] fates---: yes, 10 is root
    [3:14:59 PM] fates---: Kether is Ra
    [3:15:13 PM] fates---: middle path
    [3:15:14 PM] Thubanis: As an OLDER generation yes
    [3:15:19 PM] Thubanis: There are 4 gens
    [3:15:48 PM] Thubanis: Ra becomes Shu becomes Geb becomes Osiris-Set brotherhood
    [3:16:20 PM] Thubanis: This is named differently by historical cultures, but all share the same story
    [3:16:36 PM] fates---: Hmm ok, then we are thinking of the same construct
    [3:16:44 PM] Thubanis: Middle path is 1-11-6-9-10 yes
    [3:16:45 PM] fates---: 1 =  male? not so sure
    [3:16:50 PM] fates---: yes
    [3:16:58 PM] Thubanis: Odd numbers are male even are female
    [3:17:10 PM] fates---: [8/24/12 10:12:10 PM] Wyzard: No the clean male path is 1-3-5-8
    [3:17:15 PM] Thubanis: The exception is the BRIDGE 7-8 Nephthys-Ptah
    [3:17:24 PM] fates---: The clean female path is 2-4-7-10
    [3:17:42 PM] Thubanis: They allow the sexchange via the 'unclean' bisexes 6 and 9
    [3:18:34 PM] Thubanis: Yes, Set is cosmically original Femme
    [3:18:48 PM] Thubanis: The Wife of God in waiting
    [3:18:55 PM] fates---: 1 = Ra 11 = Horus 9=Anubis 10=Set
    [3:18:59 PM] fates---: what is 6?
    [3:19:10 PM] Thubanis: No
    [3:19:15 PM] Thubanis: Hathor=6
    [3:19:25 PM] Thubanis: 3=Horus
    [3:19:35 PM] Michael: kundalini is really very simple...  and I understand that you get it associated with sex and creative energy because it primarily resides around the lower chakras associated with survival procreation and whatnot.. energy collects and coils up in those areas when one focuses too much on the material/physical plane it doesnt matter if your focusing on sex or looking at a rock on the ground some energy is going to accumulate in the lower chakras that associate with the material world
    [3:19:51 PM] Thubanis: The Old interpretations
    [3:20:04 PM] Thubanis: Without the Daath=11 actually
    [3:20:23 PM] Thubanis: 'No old humans are allowed' to enter the 'forbidden pathways'
    [3:21:12 PM] Thubanis: You might find Devakas on MOA more akin your cosmology and ideas Michael
    [3:28:54 PM] Ishtara Raven: well its as Jesus said, very few would be given or shown the truth, i am so frustrated with the whole lot of them these days. its sickening that no one can seem to see the true meaning of the GOT, its so beautiful
    [3:29:10 PM] Thubanis: Yes as am I
    [3:29:18 PM] Thubanis: Why I dont say much see
    [3:29:24 PM] Thubanis: Pointless
    [3:29:33 PM] Ishtara Raven: i am seriously ready to go on a full throttle rant on FB
    [3:29:43 PM] Thubanis: Egomania rules their psyches
    [3:29:48 PM] Ishtara Raven: likely piss them all off, so sick of it
    [3:29:51 PM] Thubanis: Why not
    [3:30:05 PM] Ishtara Raven: you have people posting the most absurd XXXX
    [3:30:13 PM] Thubanis: Yep
    [3:30:32 PM] Thubanis: Last days of prophecy Raven; it is necessary and to be expected
    [3:30:33 PM] Ishtara Raven: i can see why Crowley was so hateful of the human race lol, he took it to extremes  of course
    [3:30:49 PM] Thubanis: The 'great falling away from the cosmic truth' it is called
    [3:31:16 PM] Thubanis: Yes he understood that sexuality is the salvation and nothing else
    [3:31:23 PM] Thubanis: But he could not take it further in his abuse of substances and his megalomania too
    [3:31:30 PM] Ishtara Raven: my blood is boiling, its like i dont know how much longer i can hold my tongue, and yet if i do speak, what then?
    [3:31:40 PM] Thubanis: All ok
    [3:31:50 PM] Thubanis: Look at the new earth chart
    [3:31:59 PM] Thubanis: I added the 15 days as 4 corners
    [3:32:18 PM] Thubanis: So August 9th - August 23rd
    [3:32:21 PM] Ishtara Raven: are we in a WOC?
    [3:32:33 PM] Ishtara Raven: why am i so pisssed
    [3:32:50 PM] Thubanis: Becomes the 'death of the antichrist' in law and then manifested from September 27 - October 11
    [3:32:58 PM] Thubanis: No deeper
    [3:33:07 PM] Thubanis: The 'judgement was written'
    [3:33:20 PM] Thubanis: August 23rd was the final day
    [3:34:32 PM] Ishtara Raven: my dream last night was these two serpent snake hearts entwining, i was trying to help them entwine, but they were sort of fighting it and each had a side to tell me, i was downloaded with so much stuff, but all of what i mostly brought to my conscious mind is primal anger in a way. They finally merged into colors but i was struggling with them, arguing all night it seemed. i dont know what it means
    [3:34:44 PM] *** Thubanis sent NewEarth.jpg ***
    [3:35:04 PM] Thubanis: Yes because of August 23rd
    [3:35:14 PM] Ishtara Raven: ok that makes sense it seems
    [3:35:23 PM] Ishtara Raven: it was like something was finalized
    [3:35:34 PM] Thubanis: Before the judgements can be executed they have to be legislated
    [3:35:37 PM] Ishtara Raven: but man i seriously became like the mediator of the century in this dream
    [3:36:00 PM] Thubanis: This legislation is 15 days a twin-Woc mirrored in a 'Day of the Lord'
    [3:36:27 PM] Thubanis: Of course the witnesses testimony see
    [3:36:48 PM] Thubanis: The 2 serpents are the lovehearts in the chart
    [3:36:55 PM] Ishtara Raven: yes i realised this
    [3:37:42 PM] Thubanis: Conception to Birth of antichrist blended with Anticonception to Antibirth of this same antiLogos energy
    [3:37:45 PM] Ishtara Raven: and in a weird way Tony, I felt I was helping them somehow and it is related to you and DD and us all, i was like a defender stating my case and listening to both sides
    [3:38:00 PM] Thubanis: The chart is clear to the days, even though they cant read it
    [3:38:17 PM] Ishtara Raven: funny all day i thought of Oct 11th
    [3:38:59 PM] fates---:
    [3:39:01 PM] Thubanis: Should be shared with Xeia and Rok Raven
    [3:39:47 PM] Thubanis: October 11th is an important nexus yes
    [3:40:34 PM] Ishtara Raven: yeah likely you should send the chart in here
    [3:40:39 PM] Ishtara Raven: the update
    [3:40:59 PM] Thubanis: I meant the info about August 23rd and the 4 blocks of twin wocs
    [3:41:23 PM] Thubanis: It is best looked at at MOA, where you can magnify it
    [3:41:28 PM] Ishtara Raven: yes i know, but as reference i meant, i can see it on the chart
    [3:41:53 PM] Thubanis: Yes, but since Xeia had those dreams as well I decided to say something about it
    [3:42:22 PM] Ishtara Raven: well i think its significant, both our dreams
    [3:42:41 PM] Ishtara Raven: she pegged the fear right on
    [3:43:06 PM] Thubanis: Yes and regarding the Judas Gospel
    [3:43:14 PM] Thubanis: I should say something
    [3:43:30 PM] Thubanis: Judas becomes Judith
    [3:43:43 PM] Thubanis: 'This is why he is called the 'Son of Perdition'
    [3:43:57 PM] Thubanis: So fates, Judas in the bible is like Set
    [3:44:19 PM] Thubanis: This is the key to understanding the Nag Hammadi stuff about Judas Iscariot
    [3:44:43 PM] Thubanis: Much of the Nag Hammadi stuff is of a far lesser quality than the GOT
    [3:45:14 PM] Thubanis: GOT rules supreme as the Logos words of the transfigured cosmic Jesus as a universal waveform
    [3:45:19 PM] fates---: hmm, interesting, Judas is like Set
    [3:45:27 PM] Thubanis: Yes, or anyone in the duality
    [3:45:34 PM] Ishtara Raven: oh my spider must be ok, i checked the Roses this morning and it was gone, so maybe you were right Susan, 'she' was building an egg nest of sorts. I didnt know what was going on last night so i became concerned when it seemed she was getting caught in her web and exhausted.
    [3:45:41 PM] Thubanis: Everyone is Judas becoming Judith
    [3:45:46 PM] fates---: brb
    [3:45:59 PM] Thubanis: August 23rd Raven
    [3:46:21 PM] Thubanis: This date is so potent as the Transit of the Sun from Leo into Virgo
    [3:46:32 PM] Ishtara Raven: yeah the cusp, i had forgot about it
    [3:46:36 PM] Thubanis: Your spider is losing its virginity lol
    [3:46:42 PM] Ishtara Raven: the Spider was trying to tell me lol
    [3:46:57 PM] Thubanis: Yes, the Dragon Dates became empowered exactly 1 month ago
    [3:47:20 PM] Thubanis: MM-Day of the Ingressing  Leo Sun from Cancer with the Mother-Father symbol of the ancients
    [3:48:40 PM] Ishtara Raven: well maybe i will post all this stuff about the black Lilith moons on FB,
    [3:48:44 PM] Thubanis: Recall Every Day from July 4th, 2011 to December 21st, 2012 is part of the Barbelo-Yalda creation preceding the Big Bang
    [3:48:53 PM] Thubanis: Sure
    [3:49:08 PM] Thubanis: I might put relevant parts of this convo on the forums
    [3:49:16 PM] Thubanis: As Susan wanted
    [3:49:20 PM] Ishtara Raven: yeah
    [3:49:30 PM] Ishtara Raven: a whole Lilith expose
    [3:49:36 PM] Thubanis: Indeed
    [3:49:47 PM] Thubanis: This is a nice video too
    [3:49:54 PM] Ishtara Raven: yes i was watching it
    [3:49:55 PM] Thubanis: Lilith
    [3:50:03 PM] Ishtara Raven: great immagry
    [3:50:33 PM] Thubanis: Yes Kali is awakened
    [3:50:41 PM] Thubanis: Ask Sui too
    [3:50:53 PM] Thubanis: Kali awakening date was July 22nd
    [3:51:00 PM] Ishtara Raven: i got all excited today and i think i will get myself a new computer and take some classes on photo manipulation and illustration. i have all these ideas fermenting.
    [3:51:26 PM] Thubanis: I do the chart now or fates will haunt me
    [3:51:32 PM] Ishtara Raven: lol go go
    [3:51:36 PM] Thubanis: Gracias
    [5:31:36 PM] fates---: im back
    [6:07:45 PM] fates---: (coffee) Asleepy
    [6:09:29 PM] fates---: [8/24/12 10:51:30 PM] Wyzard: I do the chart now or fates will haunt me
    [6:10:06 PM] fates---: (chuckle)
    [6:11:28 PM] fates---: |-) Well, im going to get some sleep i think.  I'll be online tomorrow
    [6:40:09 PM] *** Thubanis sent fates.gif ***
    [6:40:38 PM] Thubanis: I hope this is without errors
    [6:40:55 PM] Thubanis: I leave it up until further notice
    [6:51:09 PM] fates---: Hey Tony, im still awake
    [6:52:50 PM] Thubanis: Sure, some of this data will be shared on the forums
    [6:52:50 PM] fates---: are you sure thats the right one?
    [6:53:05 PM] Thubanis: yes
    [6:53:23 PM] Thubanis: This is your chart with the astromath describing your natal chart
    [6:53:51 PM] fates---: i think you sent the old one
    [6:54:08 PM] *** fates--- sent Fates (incomplete) .gif ***
    [6:54:23 PM] Thubanis: No you see Lilith on in descriptions in green?
    [6:54:47 PM] fates---: nope
    [6:55:46 PM] *** Thubanis sent FatesSwanson.jpeg ***
    [6:56:26 PM] Thubanis: Sorry, yes, you were correct
    [6:56:38 PM] fates---: a ha! AWESOME!
    [6:57:00 PM] fates---: dark moon is right between libara and virgo
    [6:57:08 PM] Thubanis: Yours is the first and only Thuban chart with Lilith in it for now
    [6:57:09 PM] fates---: Thanks soo much!
    [6:57:13 PM] Thubanis: Np
    [6:57:22 PM] fates---: wow
    [6:57:24 PM] Thubanis: Yes Descendant
    [6:57:47 PM] Thubanis: Is the line between Libra and Virgo
    [6:57:59 PM] fates---: what does that mean?
    [6:58:19 PM] Thubanis: Just definition on the partitioning of the zodiak
    [6:58:53 PM] fates---: What does the major aspect mean? :)
    [6:59:56 PM] Thubanis: Dominant astroaspects
    [7:00:23 PM] Thubanis: All of your planets are basically in conjunctions
    [7:00:35 PM] Thubanis: Why you have empty houses
    [7:00:42 PM] fates---: Ruler of the MidHeaven = Noon and Decendent = Dusk
    [7:00:51 PM] Thubanis: but this you can analyse yourself using your books
    [7:01:16 PM] Thubanis: No your midheaven is the triple conjunction why it is dominant
    [7:01:34 PM] Thubanis: The mathcodes say this in shorthand
    [7:01:52 PM] fates---: ah i see
    [7:02:11 PM] Thubanis: Yes there are many more codes like sextiles and stuff
    [7:02:22 PM] Thubanis: As said I dont place much importance on those
    [7:02:43 PM] Thubanis: But many older astrodescriptions are ok there
    [7:02:59 PM] Thubanis: It is that I concentrate on the most powerful things
    [7:03:35 PM] Ishtara Raven: hello
    [7:03:43 PM] Ishtara Raven: can anyone see this
    [7:03:50 PM] fates---: hmm, so overall in the Thuban context, what can you scry from this?
    [7:04:22 PM] Thubanis: You are to reinvent yourself
    [7:05:11 PM] fates---: interesting, so what i was previously destoned to be is now different
    [7:06:20 PM] fates---: if my soul didnt scribe the nero pathways of this body/brain, and i didnt not make the choices i did, this body would have been someone fated far differerently
    [7:06:44 PM] Thubanis: No I dont see this. I see it as a astrocross
    [7:06:59 PM] Thubanis: Look at midheaven you are across houses 9 and 10
    [7:07:04 PM] Thubanis: In the Fatherhood
    [7:07:19 PM] Thubanis: But the Motherhood is only 3 and not 4 and 4 is vacant
    [7:07:33 PM] Thubanis: So the imbalance is to redesign your 4th house
    [7:07:45 PM] fates---: Family
    [7:07:57 PM] Thubanis: This then activates the cross with the Ascendant and the Descendant
    [7:08:07 PM] fates---: thats an oxy moron for me, i dont desire to have a family
    [7:08:21 PM] fates---: i already have one outside of this realm
    [7:08:47 PM] Thubanis: What I mean cosmic communication replacing old human one
    [7:09:00 PM] Thubanis: Cosmic family for the human one this on all levels

    [2:52:07 PM - Saturday, August 25th, 2012]
    [2:52:43 PM] Thubanis:

    [2:53:05 PM] Thubanis:

    The Astronomical Lilith

    The Moon travels along an elliptical path around the Earth. An ellipse has two focal points, and the other focal point, not occupied by the Earth has been called the Dark Moon, the Black Moon or Lilith. This is a slightly simplified definition, since, actually, the Moon and the Earth both move around their common centre of gravity, and the path of the Moon is not a neat el...lipse, but a rather wobbly affair. One must distinguish between the mean orbit of the Moon, which is a slowly elongating ellipse, and the actual orbit, which vaccilates around the mean path, due to interference of various kinds. Just as there a "mean" and a "true" Lunar Node, so there is a "mean" and a "true" ellipse and a "mean" and a "true" Lilith. I write "true" in inverted commas, because the Moon's Node is only "true" about twice per month, when the Moon is actually on it, for the rest of the time, it is as "untrue" as the mean Node. In fact, when working with a point so close to the Earth, one should also take the great parallax into consideration, i.e. consider, from which point on the Earth one is actually looking at a point in the heavens. Astrology observes the planets geocentrically, as if from the Earth's centre, and not topocentrically, from the actual place of the observer.

    Black Moon Lilith is the ultimate archetype in Dark Goddess Astrology. Her myth comes from Lilith, Adams first wife who refused to lay beneath him during the sexual act and otherwise.

    She chose to be exiled from paradise rather to submit to God. She is also the serpent who tempted Eve with the forbidden fruit (enlightenment/sex), which then banished both Adam & Eve from paradise also.

    There are many full versions of this myth on the net She can be said she represents the Witch archetype. Magic, the kundalini, occult knowledge, the taboo, owning your sovereignty, the shadow, dreams, psychic ability, goddess power and creativity that is not just about making babies.

    With Black Moon Lilith there are two points that you can place in the chart. The Mean and the True (or Osculating.) I used to think the True wasn't important until I saw it rising in the chart of Marilyn Monroe and then decided to look it up and see if it was relevant. Bear in mind you really need an accurate birthtime to use True Lilith as it wavers so much. Mean Lilith is best to use without a time. I like what Juan Antonio Revilla says about it here:

    "The Mean Apogee or Black Moon... It's movement is actually as round and regular as the hands of a clock and it is very easy to calculate. This roundness of its motion is not a good representative of the nocturnal and magic demoness Lilith; "he goes onto say. "The Osculating Apogee,... Some people reject it because it doesn't make any sense to them to have it swing as much as 30 degrees from the mean position and have abrupt and irregular changes of velocity and direction, but I think it is precisely this erratic behavior what makes it the best representative of the irrational, instinctive, and primal symbolism of Lilith."

    [2:54:54 PM] Thubanis: As you can see, the manifesto of the REAL LILITH will be that embodied by ANY DQBee
    [2:55:07 PM] Thubanis: I am doing fates chart now
    [2:57:29 PM] Thubanis: Interestingly, September 12th, 2011 was the actual Conception of the Antichrist, manifesting in the 'loss of true core love' as some of us recall. This is emphasized on the New Earth chart              
    [7:06:18 PM] Ishtara Raven:

    (22) Jesus saw infants being suckled. He said to his disciples, "These infants being suckled are like those who enter the kingdom."
    They said to him, "Shall we then, as children, enter the kingdom?"
    Jesus said to them, "When you make the two one, and when you make the inside like the outside and the outside like the inside, and the above like the below, and when you make the male and the female one and the same, so that the male not be male nor the female female; and when you fashion eyes in the place of an eye, and a hand in place of a hand, and a foot in place of a foot, and a likeness in place of a likeness; then will you enter the kingdom."

    The Testimony of the World Logos from Thuban

    Regarding your Temple of Solomon link and the '15 cubits'

    [8:15:44 PM-Monday, August 27th, 2012 (+10UCT)]

    15And this is the fashion which thou shalt make it of: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits.
    16A window shalt thou make to the ark, and in a cubit shalt thou finish it above; and the door of the ark shalt thou set in the side thereof; with lower, second, and third stories shalt thou make it.
    17And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.
    18But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee.

    17And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.
    18And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters.
    19And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.
    20Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.

    The Dimensions of the Ark relate to the 15 Cubits as the 15 days of the WOC Offset and the timewarp - see below. 300x50x30=450,000=15x30,000 in the ratio 30:5:3 and LengthxArea=300x1500 in ratio 1:5 in the height of the Ark of 30 cubits being covered in 15 cubits of water that is halfway as 30+15=45. The total 'Height' of the Flood, to 'cover the mountains', so is 150% the Height of the Ark. The 'StarHuman Merkabah' is defined in a wavelength of √15=2πR=πD for 3D/2=3√15/2π=1.849...

    The ratio 5:3=1.666.. approximates the Golden Mean (Y=1.618033...) in the Fibonacci Series: 0,1,1,2,3,5,8,13, adjacent numbers and so the decoding for the 'Ancient Span' or 'Foot' as 3 'Handbreadths' becomes 0.308 centimeters or about 12 'inches' with 24 inches or 2 'Spans' defining the 'Ancient Cubit' (6 Cubit/4 Cubit=108/72=3/2) as the Inverse of the Golden Mean as 1/Y=X=0.618033...~0.616...and for 6 'foot' or 6 'spans' of 72 'inches' being the 'Height of a StarMan' as approximately 6 'foot' or 4 'cubits' or 18 'handbreadths' of so 185 cm - again in the 3/2 or 150% ratio.

    The 'Ancient Cubit' then becomes the 'Measurement Unit'.

    The 15 day Offset of the warptime and the Dimensions of the Arkian Merkabah - see above and related messages.

    [8:17:19 PM] Thubanis: [3:33:40 PM] Thubanis: Oh ok, yes I was looking at your Solomon link
    [3:33:57 PM] Thubanis: Yes he has figured that the temple is the starhuman merkabah
    [3:34:32 PM] Thubanis: Yes August 22nd, was when Sun ingressed Virgo
    [3:34:35 PM] Ishtara Raven: yeah i found that link following the crop circle links on the descriptions
    [3:34:44 PM] Thubanis: This is a month of the Lion see
    [3:35:04 PM] Thubanis: MM=CJ entwining JC
    [3:35:06 PM] Ishtara Raven: yeah i think Dawns birthday is the 31st of August.
    [3:35:10 PM] Thubanis: Leo-Virgo
    [3:35:49 PM] Thubanis: Unicorn is Virgo, why the royals have this as the ultimate 'secret sign' in Britain
    [3:35:59 PM] Ishtara Raven: we never really have stayed in touch much, she has always been sort of a pompous one, until recently
    [3:36:04 PM] Thubanis: In their emblems of the ptb
    [3:36:14 PM] Ishtara Raven: oh i wondered
    [3:36:32 PM] Ishtara Raven: yes i noticed a lot of unicorns in their sygils
    [3:37:26 PM] Ishtara Raven: but i found it interesting this guy seemed to realise the temple is the human body, i had not seen anyone besides us decode this before
    [3:37:35 PM] Thubanis: Yes as we know for years
    [3:37:56 PM] Ishtara Raven: his name is Tony too lol
    [3:37:56 PM] Thubanis: His 120 cubit is our 144 cubit of Revelation too
    [3:38:33 PM] Thubanis: Your last or third last post was even named after 144 cubits
    [3:38:47 PM] Ishtara Raven: yeah i read through his descriptions and such and his take on the big bull basin
    [3:39:11 PM] Thubanis: The magic 15 of Noah's ark fits into the 120
    [3:39:31 PM] Thubanis: This is another key
    [3:39:42 PM] Thubanis: Noone really never made any sense of this
    [3:39:43 PM] Thubanis: wait
    [3:40:28 PM] Ishtara Raven: well it astounds me how many people have visited his site, our stuff is so much more comprehensive though, detailed.
    [3:40:52 PM] Thubanis: Now take this literally
    [3:41:08 PM] Ishtara Raven: you cant it makes no sense
    [3:41:17 PM] Ishtara Raven: 15 cubits would not cover a mountain lol
    [3:41:39 PM] Thubanis:

    Genesis 7:16-24
    16 And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the Lord shut him in.
    17 And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.
    18 And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters.
    19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.
    20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.
    21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:
    22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.
    23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.
    24 And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.

    [3:41:46 PM] Thubanis: Indeed
    [3:42:09 PM] Thubanis: 1 cubit is 18 inches or so 45 cm
    [3:42:28 PM] Thubanis: 150=120+30 etc
    [3:42:28 PM] Ishtara Raven: wow no one has realised this yet i bet lol
    [3:43:09 PM] Thubanis: Mathematically it relates to sqrt(15) as the size of the Vitruvius egg

    [3:43:22 PM] Ishtara Raven: weird enough we all watched the prince of egypt tonight, annimation about Moses and Carla loved it, but she did not understand why God had to kill those Egyptian babies
    [3:43:41 PM] Ishtara Raven: the first born
    [3:44:18 PM] Thubanis: Because as wavelength this becomes a very good approximatrion of the Golden Mean and on this the 'dimensions' of the ark are stated
    [3:44:38 PM] Thubanis: Its symbolic tell her this NEVER happened
    [3:44:48 PM] Ishtara Raven: and then the sand surrounded Moses and she told me she had a scarry dream about sand englufing Seattle, a huge sand storm.
    [3:44:57 PM] Thubanis: It is the same as Abraham 'sacrificing' Isaac
    [3:45:09 PM] Ishtara Raven: yeah i told her
    [3:45:25 PM] Thubanis: Then an 'angel' says to 'sacrifice' a Ram instead
    [3:45:33 PM] Thubanis: The Ram is the firstborn get it?
    [3:45:35 PM] Thubanis: As Aries
    [3:45:40 PM] Thubanis: Reuben
    [3:45:45 PM] Ishtara Raven: she has been reading too much crap on the internet about the rapture, asks me daily about it and i tell her what it means, not the nabs BS you know
    [3:45:53 PM] Ishtara Raven: oh wow yeah
    [3:46:00 PM] Thubanis: It MEANS changing the Inheritance
    [3:46:11 PM] Thubanis: From the firstborn to the nextborn
    [3:46:22 PM] Thubanis: Jesus lineage was NOT first see
    [3:46:26 PM] Thubanis: It was the fourth in Judah after Reuben Aries, Simeon Taurus and Levi Gemini
    [3:46:31 PM] Ishtara Raven: true
    [3:47:00 PM] Thubanis: This then is made clear in Reuben-Aries-Ishmael-Pharez-Mannaseh-Esau-Cain ...
    [3:47:04 PM] Ishtara Raven: well i will try to make sense of it for her, somehow. between her dad and internet crap she is confused a bit, but its ok she is so young
    [3:47:06 PM] Thubanis: Losing their birthright as firstborns to the secondborns, often encoded as twins
    [3:47:36 PM] Thubanis: Well I consider it VERY important, you telling the true story amidst the crapola
    [3:48:10 PM] Thubanis: It is not hard use the bible codes and interpret them correctly
    [3:48:12 PM] Ishtara Raven: well i try, i am not so hot at conveying things to her though, i have to non-complicate it for her somehow
    [3:48:42 PM] Thubanis: Ram=1st and Pisces=12
    [3:48:53 PM] Thubanis: So alpha omega ourobos
    [3:49:07 PM] Thubanis: Head becomes Tail and vice versa
    [3:49:23 PM] Thubanis: Jesus said it: "The first will be last and the last first'
    [3:49:41 PM] Thubanis: This means many other things though as well
    [3:49:57 PM] Ishtara Raven: right
    [3:50:49 PM] Thubanis: If Carla watches a movie where 'babies' are slaughtered, then this is only a story to exemplify something deeper for people who cant read or write
    [3:51:25 PM] Thubanis: So I would make it very clear to her, that this is human MISUNDERSTANDING of the deeper story
    [3:51:28 PM] Ishtara Raven: well i had not seen it before and i didnt know until it came up
    [3:51:34 PM] Ishtara Raven: i was a bit horrified
    [3:51:52 PM] Thubanis: I know of it. It relates to Herod's slaughter after Bethlehem recall?
    [3:52:01 PM] Ishtara Raven: yes
    [3:52:07 PM] Thubanis: Same archetype
    [3:52:09 PM] Ishtara Raven: he also killed all the first born
    [3:52:22 PM] Thubanis: Yes it is the Passover symbol
    [3:52:44 PM] Thubanis: Try to tell Carla, this has become Easter Eggs and rebirth now
    [3:52:51 PM] Ishtara Raven: yes because God instructed Moses to paint all the doors with lambs blood, this has deeper meaning as well
    [3:53:07 PM] Thubanis: Resurrection also meaning Winter is followed by Spring and new fertility
    [3:53:16 PM] Thubanis: Sunshine after the nights
    [3:53:27 PM] Thubanis: Yes same thing
    [3:53:34 PM] Ishtara Raven: well she is really taken by all this rapture stuff
    [3:53:42 PM] Thubanis: The Lambs are the Rams of Reuben
    [3:54:00 PM] Thubanis: Rapture?
    [3:54:09 PM] Thubanis: Not fundamentalist religion
    [3:54:35 PM] Thubanis: Tell her that Moses is an OFFICE he never existed as a singular person
    [3:54:51 PM] Thubanis: The Dead Sea never parted in 3D
    [3:55:01 PM] Ishtara Raven: yes all that stuff on the internet about God whisking away his chosen. she says its on dec 21st lol. i hugged her today and kissed her and i said the rapture was this, our moment now loveing each other and being together as a family.
    [3:55:15 PM] Thubanis: There was an historical exodus, but this was 1450 BC
    [3:55:30 PM] Thubanis: Oh dear
    [3:55:32 PM] Thubanis: Yes
    [3:55:55 PM] Ishtara Raven: so in a way she is excited but afraid too of being separated from me and such
    [3:56:06 PM] Thubanis: There will be NO difference in 3d perception between December 21st and December 22nd
    [3:56:22 PM] Thubanis: The earth will look rather the same
    [3:56:32 PM] Ishtara Raven: yes i tell her these things
    [3:56:38 PM] Thubanis: What will have changed is the data matrix of the cosmos
    [3:56:59 PM] Thubanis: The outer space Will be able to contact and physicalise
    [3:57:04 PM] Ishtara Raven: i try very hard to separate her fictional impressions from reality and speak truthfully to her
    [3:57:12 PM] Thubanis: This is all in an immediate 3D sense
    [3:57:26 PM] Thubanis: The metaphysics however will be forever changed
    [3:57:34 PM] Ishtara Raven: yes i have told her about contact and telling her that she will be teaching me lol
    [3:58:07 PM] Thubanis: Yes dreams will be more intensive getting more and more 'real' in blending the higherD with the 3D
    [3:58:23 PM] Thubanis: So all this will and is already happening
    [3:58:41 PM] Thubanis: For us it is the Breaking of the Coccon though
    [3:58:51 PM] Thubanis: Contact will manifest sometime after this
    [3:59:22 PM] Ishtara Raven: what do you make of her sandstorm dream, i guess this was a few days ago or so, after we built the sand castles she told me tonight of this dream. She said she was on the beach and a huge sand storm came up and buried all of Seattle and she was afraid.
    [3:59:23 PM] Thubanis: Hopefully earlier than later
    [3:59:43 PM] Thubanis: It is the incoming wave
    [4:00:04 PM] Thubanis: Now only 4 lightmonths away
    [4:00:13 PM] Ishtara Raven: the scene in the movie of Moses being caught and buried in a sandstorm is what triggered her memory
    [4:00:23 PM] Thubanis: Sandstorms and tsunamis whatever, same symbol
    [4:00:50 PM] Ishtara Raven: hmmm interesting, yeah i felt similar about it, that she is picking up on the true exodus
    [4:00:59 PM] Thubanis: Of course
    [4:01:00 PM] Ishtara Raven: the real metaphysical flood
    [4:01:06 PM] Thubanis: yes
    [4:01:21 PM] Thubanis: Its a mental war between truth and falsehood
    [4:01:35 PM] Thubanis: Cosmic Logos versus antilogi
    [4:01:45 PM] Thubanis: Outer space versus Inner space


    Thought this was interesting, crop circle reported on the 26th

    Check this out, all his stuff is heavily copywritten. I just discovered this site while looking through the links on this latest crop circle. He has some interesting diagrams of the temple of Solomon being related to the human body
    It might be asked: Why would the Temple involve sex? – and the short answer is 1) because it displays a definite Edenic theme in its decorations and architecture and 2)  Eden itself was a place of fertility, displaying the Creator’s powers to produce all manner of life in abundance and 3) the land of Israel, the Promised Land, is biblically presented as the new Eden. And finally and more importantly, 4) the Divine plan for mankind’s spiritual redemp-tion is portrayed through the human birthing process, and since this process involves sex, the Temple portrays spiritual redemption in human sexual terms.

    Raven LionHeart 45

    Last edited by orthodoxymoron on Fri Nov 20, 2015 1:00 am; edited 1 time in total

    Posts : 7824
    Join date : 2010-09-28

    Re: The United States of the Solar System: A.D. 2133 (Book One)

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Mon Mar 30, 2015 4:19 pm

    The further I slide down the rabbit-hole -- the less dogmatic I become -- but this exacts a terrible emotional and spiritual penalty. I am always uncertain -- and always at sea -- which is why I seek to be some sort of a Galactic-Observer for the remainder of this incarnation (and probably in future incarnations). I am NOT planning to spearhead a movement!! Just the opposite!! But really -- what if there were a religion which consisted of nothing more than the Bach B-minor Mass??!! What if it were simply offered each day of the week -- with full congregational participation??!! Then, perhaps people could privately study whatever the hell they wanted to!! I should stop!! Here is another exciting episode of 'Sherry Shriner'! Listen with a Dead-Sea of Salt!! I continue to think that it's important to consider a cross-section of perspectives -- without getting imprisoned by one particular cult, religion, organization, show, or leader. I also continue to support a 'low-octane' approach to 'alien invasions', 'the end of the world', 'conspiracy-theories', 'the supernatural', and 'esoteric-research'. Save the Drama for Your Mamma. I continue to include things in this thread which I don't necessarily approve of. This is a multidisciplinary mental and spiritual exercise. It's sort of like the 'Empathy Test' in 'V'. It's a 'Galactic Boot-Camp'. It's supposed to prepare you for the 'Really Strange World'. I am NOT on trial in this thread. At least I'm not supposed to be -- but who knows what evil lurks in underground bases and unconventional spacecraft?? Some people are teachers. Some people are auto-mechanics. Some people are conspiracy-theorists. Some people are completely ignorant fools. It takes all kinds -- but why?? I have observed psychokinesis (or something like that) at close range -- but I avoid that sort of thing. I avoid anything magical or creepy. Check this out!

    "Prove to Me That You're No Fool!!
    Walk Across My Swimming Pool!!"

    I continue to suspect that the True and Complete Solar System History is extremely sad and violent -- and that my reincarnational activities were probably reprehensible to the nth degree. I'm basically attempting to communicate some potentially productive concepts to whoever is interested -- before the Galactic PTB pull the plug on me -- and shut me down -- once and for all. That's what it feels like to me. I REALLY worry about ancient wars, treaties, agreements, covenants, verdicts, and sentences -- which might be constrictively-binding in some very counter-intuitive and non-productive ways. I support Reasonable and Responsible Continuity -- but I do NOT support Unthinking and Unquestioning Traditionalism. Notice that I have been neither friendly or unfriendly toward ET and the PTB. I simply have not had enough accurate and verifiable information -- and I still don't. Expect me to remain mostly polite, neutral, and questioning -- going forward -- for a very long time.

    Did you notice the 'Three Liliths' line in the previous quoted post?? 'Three Liliths'??? Think about THAT in light of what I've been hinting-at in this thread. I mostly hint -- because I'm mostly unsure regarding just about everything. I realize that doesn't make one rich, famous, and powerful -- or get one laid -- but some of us have to stumble around in the dark -- and attempt to make sense out of nonsense. I'd sort of like to be an 'Indiana Jones' type character -- who is a university professor (teaching the contents of this thread) -- but who moonlights as an explorer/adventurer!! 1. 2. I think I'll try to prepare a 'University-Level Solar System Governance Class' -- just in case! Then, I'll keep hoping that I get an 'Unlimited-Access Badge' and a 'Strategically-Located Apartment with a Cray'!! I like to dream -- because that's about all I have left. Are you confused by my internet posting?? I'm sorry -- but what is a Completely Ignorant Fool to do?? Watch everyone fight with each other?? Will the best man, woman, or extraterrestrial win?? Will there be a God-Off?? That would be God-Awful --  wouldn't it??!! I am extremely apprehensive regarding the future. I think it might be extremely bad -- no matter who is in power -- and no matter what we do. But please know that I will attempt to be as idealistic as possible -- while I continue to be as realistic as possible.

    I feel as if I am NOT in harmony with either Divinity or Humanity -- and that I am pretty much on my own. I seem to be ignored by both Divinity and Humanity -- and I am feeling absolutely no love from either. I feel as if I am in the middle of a Spiritual Cold War. I suspect that if I were to visit Gizeh Intelligence -- we would get into a very nasty argument rather quickly -- but on the other hand I had mostly cordial conversations with the 'Ancient Egyptian Deity'. I simply think that there is a realm of political and theological conversation which is being completely missed or purposely avoided -- and I think I know why. I can visualize what's going on here -- and it's NOT a pretty picture. Can you even begin to imagine two Archangelic Queens of Heaven arguing with each other in an empty cathedral??? Think about it. I'm a bit different -- aren't I???

    BTW -- after not getting my mail for three or four days -- I got it today. It just seemed strange that I applied for an FOIA -- and a couple of days later, I stopped receiving my mail. Now, I can't get 'The Mists of Avalon' with the Public Wi-Fi -- but I can with another Wi-Fi source. Interesting. I continue to assume that everything I say and do is somehow recorded -- and I assume that I have absolutely no privacy. I continue to have very mixed feelings about security and surveillance. What are reasonable limits -- in a very dangerous world?? I like technology and spirituality -- yet we seem to have boxed ourselves in -- and made things much more complex, dangerous, and creepy. I fear that when people really find out what the true state of affairs are -- that they will not be able to handle it. I'm trying to deal with the madness -- without hating anyone -- and without doing anything stupid. But, as I have said previously, I am seriously trying to limit this quest to the relative privacy of my own mind. But who knows how private my mind really is?? Perhaps the time has arrived for me to clean-up my act -- go underground -- and become a completely incognito fool. Namaste and Godspeed.
    Aquaries1111 wrote:

    Thank-you for your contributions, A1. I'm attempting, once again, to go into read-only mode, and to not post for a while. I will be viewing your material, but I probably won't be posting. I also need to look more closely at Carol's, Brook's, Raven's, Mudra's, and the eXchanger's posts and threads. There are others, as well. You all have helped me to conceptualize the 'Queen-Theme' in various ways. I have purposely placed myself in an environment which is somewhat foreign to my way of thinking -- so as to challenge myself to think outside of the box -- rather than just reinforcing what I already think. Unfortunately, I feel as if I have gotten myself into a helluva lot of trouble with various individuals, groups, and agencies (human and otherwise) -- including God and the Angels. Thank-you for that EXCELLENT video, A1. I don't necessarily agree with all of the editorial-content -- but I found it to be very thought-provoking.

    When I have said 'Thou Shalt Have No Gods' I meant that in the 'Religion as Usual' sense. I'm not saying that 'God Does Not Exist' or that there shouldn't be 'Someone in Charge'. I guess I'm really saying that many of us might've been serving a 'Bad God' for thousands of years. On the other hand, what if this 'Bad God' had to deal with a 'Really Bad God'?? Humanity might have a helluva lot of karmic debt to deal with, as well. This thing might be EXTREMELY complex and ugly. I simply don't have enough reliable and verifiable information at this point -- which is why I was mostly neutral and questioning toward the 'Ancient Egyptian Deity'. What if we have been dealing with an 'Angry Osiris' -- 'Renegade Isis' -- and 'Opportunistic Ra'??!! Consider purchasing the First Season of 'V' (2009) and then watching the first four episodes straight through -- without a break. Then, REALLY think about it. The very last scene of the fourth episode is chilling. What is even more chilling is the fact that very few will converse with me regarding the most important topics imaginable.

    I wonder how binding the 'Old Covenant' was between 'God' and 'Ancient Israel'?? What if they made a deal with a rather harsh 'God' which is still in effect??!! Perhaps Israel never really had the option of embracing the 'New Covenant'. There might be a lot of people in the Mafia (for example) who would like to 'get out' but know that they'll never 'get out' alive. I think a lot of our troubles might go back to Ancient Egypt -- to wars, treaties, covenants, etc. Was the 'Old Covenant' a 'Ra Deal' with the Hebrews?? Was the 'New Covenant' a 'Ra Deal' with most everyone else?? Did the Original and Authentic Teachings of Michael-Isis-Jesus predate and trump the Old and New Covenants?? (or is this simply wishful thinking??)

    Consider imagining Cleopatra (Elizabeth Taylor) reciting the 1788 'Federalist Papers', the 1898 'Desire of Ages', and the 1928 'Book of Common Prayer' -- with Gregorian-Chant background music -- in an Egyptian Palace -- aboard the New York Mother-Ship!! You all REALLY hate me -- don't you??!! Has even ONE person taken this thread seriously -- and used it as a study-guide -- for a significant length of time?? Perhaps this will have been a study-guide for me alone. Perhaps I am a Secret Society of ONE -- as a Neo Law of One Society!!
    orthodoxymoron wrote:
    Carol wrote:I've come to think more recently that the Bible is the play book that they follow.  Who is to say that time travelers didn't have something to do with writing parts of the Bible from the onset?  In fact, that time travel does occur it makes me wonder just how much is manipulated.  With elitiest Geroge Bush Sr. involved with the time travel program since the sixties - that just chills my bones.

    I mean - how much wealth and how much power does one need, crave or desire?  For some, they appear to be a bottomless pit and they are to be pitied.

    Dance with the devil and the devil will take his own.
    What if the world has been exactly the way God has wanted it to be -- for thousands of years -- right up to this very day?? What if the Bible is a combination of verdict, sentence, script, IQ-Test, etc?? I've come to the conclusion that Theology and the Bible are NOT fun subjects -- but that they are VERY necessary subjects for us to study -- if we wish to have a fighting-chance of extricating ourselves from what often seems to be a hopeless situation (when one thinks VERY deeply about what's REALLY been going on in this Solar System). But most people don't have a clue -- and don't give a damn -- so why should we agonize about the Fate of Humanity -- especially when THAT makes us a threat. My public wi-fi access to this site has been blocked for several weeks now. I'm pretty much done with my little tempest in a teapot on this site. This doesn't mean that I'm going to stop thinking -- but I think I'm going to do a lot less talking -- and a lot more listening and watching. BTW -- I was told by someone who should know -- that the Bush-Clan sold-out VERY quickly. Nuff Said.
    The Fruit of Responsibility is Love, Freedom, Fame, Fortune, Power, Pleasure, Positive-Thinking, and Self-Esteem.
    Responsibility is the Root. Love, Freedom, Fame, Fortune, Power, Pleasure, Positive-Thinking, and Self-Esteem are the Fruit.
    This Must NEVER be Forgotten.

    What if 2,000 United States of the Solar System Representatives processed in and out of each session (at St. Mary's Cathedral?) wearing academic-robes (with a classical music prelude, processional, recessional, and postlude)? 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. What Would Angela and Kimo Say?? Siriusly. Talk to them. What Would Monseigneur Bowe Say?? He's probably having a drink with Corrado Balducci. What if each session were basically a courtroom scene -- with the King and Queen of the United States of the Solar System serving as 'Co-Judges'?? (with a royal-judging//representative-voting homeostasis) What if the remaining 8,000 Representatives participated via InterPlaNet from throughout the Solar System?? What if all Representatives rotated in and out of the St. Mary's location?? But really, the location could be most anywhere. I have NO idea what locations might be available. This is all just a 'mind-game'. I simply thought that St. Mary's is a very cool contemporary cathedral -- which really doesn't look like a church -- in a very traditional religion -- and that the Catholics and Episcopalians might get along nicely at the very traditional Grace Cathedral. The St. Mary's seating-arrangement seems ideal for a hypothetical U.S.S.S. Please don't crucify me for thinking along these lines. Perhaps some other lines -- but NOT these.

    What if the Representatives were Law-Interpreters and Law-Appliers rather than Law-Makers?? I still like the idea of Responsibility-Based International, Interplanetary, and Intergalactic Law -- basically contained within One Large Volume -- which would mostly remain unchanged -- decade after decade. Responsibility and Continuity should probably be the Foundation of Freedom. Do you understand my desire for a Ceremonially Dignified Environment for U.S.S.S. Sessions?? Remember -- this thread is a conceptual experiment -- and not a line in the sand. What if the Barriers to Entry were so high -- that there might be very few contenders for U.S.S.S. Representative Positions? What if U.S.S.S Representative campaigns and elections were completely Internet and InterPlaNet Based -- so as to avoid a circus-atmosphere (as seen in many U.S. elections)?? What if the King, Queen, and Representative positions were all ten-year terms?? I simply desire proper and competent representation for all concerned -- in a dignified and orderly manner. How radical a concept is THAT??!!

    I continue to devotionally study the 1928 'Book of Common Prayer' -- but I continue to be puzzled by the repeated use of "...through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen." Think about it. I am also puzzled by the Easter-Table in the 1928 BCP beginning on April 16, 1786 -- and ending on March 31, 2013. And what about the selection of printed Bible-Texts in the 1928 BCP? Was someone trying to tell us something? Both the new Episcopal Prayer Book -- and the Catholic Novus Ordo Mass -- seemed to be steps in the wrong direction. I'm not saying they didn't need revised prayer books and liturgies -- but why the seemingly botched jobs? Continue to look beneath the surface of most everything -- but don't expect this to make you happy and peaceful. I continue to have very mixed-feelings about how things REALLY work in this solar system -- and I worry about throwing out the baby with the bathwater during various attempted reforms and revisions. I continue to wish to change everything for the better for all-concerned -- without seeming to change anything. Think 'Continuity and Evolutionary-Change'.

    I am not opposed to the basic principles and concepts contained in the Decalogue -- but I have problems with the specific wording -- and with the context (namely the Pentateuch). I continue to suspect an Ancient Law of God -- which might be quite different than the contents of the Torah. I am NOT a Lawless and Godless Renegade. Just the opposite. Here is a video which is critical of both the SDA Church and the Roman Catholic Church. I'm not endorsing this video -- but I think that it's important to wrestle with theological issues. I am both supportive and critical of both the SDA Church and the Roman Catholic Church -- but I am NOT very articulate in doing so. I am so burned-out and miserable, that I have a difficult time thinking. Period. That's the ugly truth. I am amazed that I can be as articulate as I am within this thread. I'm trying to be open and objective toward just about everyone -- and this seems to be destroying me. I am literally destroying myself -- and saving you the trouble.

    Continue to think about the Law of God -- in the context of Pre-Humanity, the Birth of Humanity, Ancient Babylon, Ancient Egypt, and Ancient Israel. I think we might have a Legal Problem -- Right from the Beginning. Continue to consider Law and Responsibility -- in every conceivable context -- past, present, and future. I think this might be EXTREMELY IMPORTANT. At this point, I don't support Righteousness by Ritual -- or Righteousness by Faith. I support Righteousness by Righteousness. Note the high view of the Law of God in the works of both Desmond Ford and Ellen White. I support a high view of the Law of God -- but I do not support Forensic-Only Justification -- or Legalistic Perfectionism. I suppose I might be a Human-Potential Movement Perfectionist -- wherein Humanity takes Character Development VERY seriously -- aided by both Inspiration and Perspiration. SDA's have been close to the mark in this area -- yet they have often butchered some very profound ideas with clumsy and even stupid applications.

    Try doing an extensive side by side study of Deuteronomy and Matthew (with an emphasis on Psychology, Ethics, Law, Governance, Responsibility, Freedom, Love, the Moral-Law, and the Ceremonial-Law). Do this study even if you don't believe in God. Legal Epistemology might be one of the most important studies imaginable. I think we might all need to become legal experts. I continue to think that Law is at the Center of Everything -- especially Solar System Governance. I might not be a lot of help in this area -- but I think that I at least have enough sense to point some of you in the right direction. Try creating your own legal system -- based upon Responsibility. Unfortunately, I seem to be too screwed-up and burned-out to really be Responsible. It seems as if I am being left by just about everyone -- to twist slowly, slowly in the wind. I really can't feel the love. I'm leaving this quest a bit bitter and disillusioned. Making Money seems to gain a helluva lot more attention and respect -- than does Making Sense. I have attempted to 'help' -- but you all don't seem to want my 'help'. I have sensed this since I was a child -- and the past few years have provided abundant confirmation. I sincerely hope that you all have made wise choices -- for this life -- and for all eternity.

    Teachings of Archangelic Queen of Heaven Michael = Teachings of Isis = Teachings of Jesus = Religion of Responsibility = Law of God = Kingdom of God(?????!!!!!)

    It seems as if this world has always been corrupt and violent -- but the last 100 years seem to be much more corrupt and violent -- and increasingly out of control. I'm hoping that we can drastically reduce the corruption, violence, and insanity. I keep hearing about a 'regime-change' -- but we need to be exceedingly careful that we don't jump out of the frying-pan and into the fire. This thing could get a lot worse -- before it gets better -- if it gets better. We should be prepared for just about anything. In the couple of weeks since I applied for an FOIA -- my mail was stopped for three or four days -- my public wi-fi access to has been blocked -- and I received a visit from the Sheriff regarding a broken window on MY house (including some unnecessary and derogatory comments). I have a feeling this is only the beginning. But Siriusly -- Walk -- Do Not Run -- In the Streets!! BTW, there is absolutely no hostility in this post. I am merely reporting on my sad and stupid life. Perhaps Sherry Shriner can cheer me up, and set me on the right path!! I'd like to know the full story regarding who she really is. She seems to know a helluva lot -- but I don't necessarily agree with her Biblical interpretations and editorial slants. Listener discretion advised. Some of what she 'reveals' is horrific in nature. I simply think that serious researchers should include this sort of podcast in their research activities. I am attempting to prepare myself and a few others -- to be ready for just about anything.

    If this Solar System is a subsidiary of a HUGE Galactic Business Empire -- why can't it be a Non-Violent, Highly-Ethical, and Very-Happy Big-Business???

    Read 'No Man Knows My History' by Fawn Brodie -- for a somewhat non-complimentary look at the 'Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints'. I need to reread this book -- and take a closer look at Mormon Egyptology and Organization -- as well as LDS temples and rituals. There seem to be a lot of secrets in Utah. Is it just my imagination -- or are there small 'orbs' at 25:30 in the documentary? What I keep worrying about is alleged Satanic Blood-Rituals in (or under) temples and cathedrals -- or at places like Bohemian Grove. I continue to be VERY apprehensive regarding who or what is at the top of the pyramid in this solar system. I worry about who or what Popes, Presidents, Queens, CEO's, et al MIGHT have to kneel before -- and take orders from. I continue to think that humanity MIGHT be owned and operated by something dark and sinister -- but this should NOT be interpreted as hostility toward any particular groups or individuals. What Would Saint Germaine Say?? I continue to think that all religions should be studied -- even by those who don't attend church -- or don't even believe in God. IMHO, politics and religion are two sides of the same coin. I attended a glass-church -- so I really do not wish to throw stones. Politics and Religion should probably be reformed -- worldwide -- but I'm not sure how this might be accomplished. If one removes something -- there had better be something better to take its place. It's a lot easier to tear-down than it is to build-up. I've recently been thinking in terms of reforming Solar System Governance by the creation of the United States of the Solar System -- and SLOWLY reforming terrestrial churches and states. Wait a minute -- I was going to stop talking. Sometimes, the less-said the better. Most of the time, actually.

    What if the existing religions and governments of the world remained pretty much 'as is' -- with the United States of the Solar System being an 'add-on' -- which would mostly deal with international, interplanetary, intergalactic, extraterrestrial, and other exotic issues and problems (such as Unconventional WMD's, Unconventional Spacecraft, and Reptilian Theocracies)?? It doesn't pay to play with how people pray. It just doesn't pay. Should a U.S.S.S. replace the U.N.?? What if the United Nations became part of the United States of the Solar System?? My thoughts should not be interpreted as a 'take-over' modality or mentality. I simply do not wish for us to exterminate ourselves -- or to be exterminated by ET or the PTB. I desire that this solar system be a genuine paradise. I am NOT stand-offish in this matter. I'm simply attempting to conceptualize 'What a Solar System Should Be'. I think I might apply 'Positive-Reinforcement' to this thread -- resulting in some Positive Science-Fiction. Sometimes one must grapple with Purgatory and Hell -- prior to ascending into Heaven. I wish to pursue a VERY idealistic variety of Political and Theological Science-Fiction -- with a decidedly High-View Law of God -- based solidly upon the concept of Responsibility. The Wise Man Built His House Upon the Rock of Responsibility. The Completely Ignorant Fool Built His House Upon the Mists of Avalon.
    Aquaries1111 wrote:Oxy, I respect that we all do need our space at times but please do not be a stranger.  I have reserved a special place for you to meet me in the dream state should you intend to travel "off planet".  Should I find you there, I will offer you a "Tulip"... and show you around the place.. maybe you have a thing or two you can show me... Perhaps that special back room entry you have been looking for "full of sacred knowledge" is in some secret space in the Galaxy reserved only for you.. never say never..

    August 17th to August 31st 1987 in Ibiza is where I spent the Harmonic Convergence.. Something past of mine, to share with you now...  May all your dreams come true...

    Oooyeah 1  Oooyeah 1  Oooyeah 1  Oooyeah 1  Oooyeah 1  Oooyeah 1  Oooyeah 1

    "This Thread is Only the Beginning. I Am of Peace. Always."

    The Goddess of America's Founding Fathers

    (I am neither supporting or condemning this article)  

    The signs are everywhere to be found. The resurrection of the Goddess was intended to take place in the United States of America.

    And if ancient prophesy can be trusted, the New Golden Age of Enlightenment will begin with the Winter Solstice, 2012!

    It is well documented that many of the men involved in writing and signing the Declaration of Independence, the Articles of Confederation, and the U. S. Constitution were Deists and Freemasons, and the philosophy of both can be associated with the Divine Feminine as a co-participant in the process of Creation.

    Deism as understood by our Founding Fathers is best defined by one of the most important participants in the American Revolution, Thomas Paine. He compared Deism to Christianity in his masterpiece, The Age of Reason:

    True Theology and That of Superstition

    As to the Christian system of faith, it appears to me a species of Atheism – a sort of religious denial of God. It professes to believe in a man rather than in God. It is a compound made up chiefly of “Manism” with but little Deism, and is as near to Atheism as twilight is to darkness. It introduces between man and his Maker an opaque body, which it calls a Redeemer, as the moon introduces her opaque self between the earth and the sun, and it produces by this means a religious, or an irreligious, eclipse of light. It has put the whole orbit of reason into shade.

    “That which is now called natural philosophy, embracing the whole circle of science, of which astronomy occupies the chief place, is the study of the works of God, and of the power and wisdom of God in His works, and is the True Theology.” Note Paine’s two-fold characterization of God: Power and Wisdom.

    “As of the theology that is now studied in its place, it is the study of human opinions and of human fancies concerning God. It is not the study of God Himself in the works that He has made, but in the works or writings that man has made; and it is not among the least of the mischiefs that the Christian system has done to the world, that it has abandoned the original and beautiful system of theology, like a beautiful innocent, to distress and reproach, to make room for the hag of superstition.”

    Natural Philosophy or Natural Religion, as well as science, recognize that both masculine and feminine forces are necessary for the Creation of the physical Universe, whether visible or invisible to our senses. Science refers to these two forces as “Light” and “Energy”; ancient and natural religions refer to them as “God and Goddess.” The two can be seen as parts of a Single Whole, which is Creative Energy – Power and Wisdom – aka, God.

    The underlying philosophy of Freemasonry is a bit more difficult to pin down. It is, after all, a “Secret Society.” Now public, however, are their symbols and ceremonies, most of which are easily decoded with a little knowledge of mythology and ancient history.

    We also know that that some of the best known participants in the American Revolution were Freemasons: Ethan Allen, Edmund Burke, John Claypool, William Dawes, Benjamin Franklin, John Hancock, John Paul Jones, Robert Livingston, Paul Revere, Colonel Benjamin Tupper, and George Washington. Of the fifty-six signers of The Declaration of Independence, eight were known Masons and seven others exhibited strong evidence of Masonic membership. Of the forty signers of the Constitution, nine were known Masons, thirteen exhibited evidence of Masonic membership, and six more later became Masons.

    The French General Lafayette, without whose aid the war could not have been won, was a Freemason. The majority of the commanders of the Continental Army were Freemasons and members of "Army Lodges." Most of George Washington's generals were Freemasons. The Boston Tea Party was planned at the Green Dragon Tavern, also known as the "Freemasons' Arms" and "the Headquarters of the Revolution." George Washington was sworn in as the first President of the United States by Robert Livingston, Grand Master of New York's Masonic lodge, and the Bible on which he took his oath was from his own Masonic lodge. The Cornerstone of the Capital Building was laid by the Grand Lodge of Maryland.

    In fact, Freemasons consecrated the cornerstones of a number of major public and private buildings in the early days of our Nation, as well as the most famous statue in America. A vessel called Bay Ridge carried about a hundred Freemasons to Bedloe’s Island for the consecration ceremony of the cornerstone for the Statue of Liberty. Several items were held in a copper box within the cornerstone: a copy of the United States Constitution; George Washington’s Farewell Address; twenty bronze medals of U.S. Presidents including Washington, Monroe, Jackson, Polk, Buchanan, Johnson, Garfield, and Arthur (all of whom were Freemasons); copies of New York City newspapers; a portrait of Bartholdi; a copy of ‘Poem on Liberty’ By E.R. Johnes; and a list of the Grand Lodge officers.

    The principal address was delivered by the Deputy Grand Master Freemason who observed, “Massive as this statue is, its physical proportions sink into comparative obscurity when contrasted with the nobility of its concept. Liberty Enlightening the World! How lofty the thought! To be free, is the first, the noblest aspiration of the human breast. And it is now a universally admitted truth that only in proportion as men become possessed of Liberty do they become civilized, enlightened, and useful.”

    The cornerstone was “found square, level and plumb,” the Grand Master applied mortar, and the stone was lowered into place. He struck the stone three times, declaring it duly laid. Then the “Elements of Consecration” were presented: corn, wine, and oil.

    The “Most Worshipful” Grand Master noted: “No institution has done more to promote Liberty and to free men from the trammels and chains of ignorance and tyranny than has Freemasonry.”

    The statue was conceived by Frederic-Auguste Bartholdi. His biographer wrote, “…he caught a vision of a magnificent Goddess holding aloft a torch in one hand and welcoming all visitors to the land of freedom and opportunity.”

    And so, the Statue of Liberty – Lady Liberty – was intended to represent the Goddess who brings light – Astarte, aka Venus, The Morning Star – the precursor of the rising Sun, the “Light Bearer.”

    The Church and others opposed to the resurrection of the Divine Feminine demonized the Goddess by associating her with Satan. Luc means light; ferre means bringer. Associating Lucifer with Satan was the Church’s attempt to demonize The Bright Morning Star – Venus – in spite of her importance to some early Christian sects:

    2 Peter 1:19: “You will do well to pay attention to this as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the Morning Star rises in your hearts.”

    Revelation 22:16: “It is I, Jesus, who sent my angel to you with this testimony for the churches. I AM the root, the descendant of David, and the Bright Morning Star.”

    Revelation 22:17: “The Spirit AND THE BRIDE say, ‘Come.’ And let everyone who is thirsty come. Let anyone who wishes take the water of life as a gift.”

    Although a Jew, perhaps Emma Lazarus was inspired by this invitation in Revelation when she wrote her famous words now engraved on a tablet within the pedestal on which Lady Liberty Stands. She titled it THE NEW COLOSSUS:

    Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,

    With conquering limbs astride from land to land;

    Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand

    A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame

    Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name

    Mother of Exiles.

    From her beacon-hand

    Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command

    The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.

    "Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she

    With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,

    Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

    The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

    Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,

    I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

    “The Golden Door” is reminiscent of the Golden Age of Rome, a time of relative peace and prosperity for even the lowest level of Roman citizen. Freedmen during the reign of Emperor Claudius were reviled by some in the Senate for wielding too much power over the Emperor’s decisions. The former slave Pallas was honored with statues and honorary plaques, gracefully accepted, and the offer of immense wealth, which was politely turned down. Pallas and Claudius reigned with wisdom rather than might; Roman citizens were provided with resources that enabled them to care for their families without fear of famine or oppressive taxes. The Pax Romana, Roman Peace, was the by-product of a sense of security shared by all loyal Romans.

    America’s “New Colossus,” the "Mother of Exiles," invited other lands to send their unwanted and hungry to the United States, giving the Statue of Liberty special meaning for immigrants coming from other oppressive lands. “The Golden Door” promised a New Golden Age for the oppressed. Lady Liberty promised the freedom to prosper.

    The  "Old Colossus" was the “Colossus of Rhodes,” an ancient statue built to thank Helios, the sun god, for protecting Rhodes from invaders. "The New Colossus" points out that the American statue is one welcoming foreigners rather than fighting them off.

    Congress accepted Lady Liberty as a gift from the French people on Washington’s birthday, 1877. However, it wasn’t finished until May 21, 1884. It was presented to Ambassador Levi Morton on July 4, 1884, by Ferdinand de Lesseps. On October 28, 1886, President Grover Cleveland oversaw the dedication of Lady Liberty. The main address was given by Freemason Chauncey M. Depew, a United States Senator.

    A great deal of controversy exists over the Freemasons’ influence in the founding of our country. And in spite of the well-publicized fact that George Washington was an avowed and proud Freemason, their influence is generally depicted as being negative and Freemasonry as something to be feared. The reasons are clear: Freemasonry was and is perceived as the enemy of fundamental and orthodox Christianity. Whether passed to them from the Knights Templar or through some other source, Freemasons seemed to know that the authentic religion of Jesus had been hijacked and replaced with the Jewish superstition of vicarious atonement. The Freemason Founding Fathers may have possessed ancient secrets that led them to that authentic religion, reason enough for the Orthodoxy and Fundamentalists to attempt to build a case for the Freemason’s association with Satanic worship.

    But some who have investigated the symbolism of Freemasonry are beginning to suspect something else, something Orthodoxy and Fundamentalism fear almost as much as they fear Satan: The Goddess in Judaism and Christianity!

    The following is excerpted from an article by William Bond’s, Goddess Symbolism Within Freemasonry, an article worth reading in its entirety:

    "It is of interest that Christianity came back to Egypt where it grew into a strong religion until Christianity became the Roman state religion. Then the Roman Christians had all the Egyptian Christians slaughtered who didn't follow the Roman version of Christianity. Destroying also all the Egyptian Christian texts, of which only a small amount have survived today. The result is that the Roman version of Christianity became more like a Jewish religion, as they put more emphasis on the Old Testament than on the teachings of Jesus. So the compassionate Goddess teachings of Jesus became largely ignored by the Christian Church until modern times.

    “When archaeologists excavated Ancient Palestine and the area around it, the Canadian archaeologist John Holiday claims that, "…biblical descriptions do not match what is found in the dirt." What became clear from archaeological evidence is that the Hebrew Bible was a very biased and heavily censored version of Jewish History.

    “The evidence unearthed shows that Goddess worship was commonplace in Israel right up to early Christian times. With large numbers of Goddess statues discovered in the homes of common people. Archaeologists have shown that the Hebrews worshipped the Goddesses Asherah and Astarte as much as the countries around Israel. So is this what this Freemason symbol is trying to tell us? That within the Bible is a hidden Goddess?”

    Bond is onto something, and others are beginning to see the same signs. Just as The Bright Morning Star was associated with Lucifer, which simply means, the Light Bearer, so, too, is Freemasonry associated with Lucifer. And although there is nothing in the Bible to associate The Bright Morning Star with Satan, the fear-mongers, nevertheless, make the association and the ignorant masses accept the false claim as fact.

    The Bright Morning Star was Venus, aka Astarte – The Goddess. During his brief appearance, Jesus attempted to resurrect the Divine Feminine, a vital component of Creation. He called her “The Bright Morning Star.” Moses attempted to do the same when he identified the “God of the Mountain” as Asherah – the Goddess. “I am that I am,” in Hebrew, is “Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh.”

    Lady Liberty holds the torch of enlightenment high over America, reminding those with ears to hear of Jesus’ last recorded words in Revelation:

    "The Spirit and The Bride say, Come. All who thirst for freedom and knowledge are invited to drink freely from the Waters of Life.”

    The Spirit of God – Knowledge – and his Goddess-wife – Wisdom – hold the key to Peace on Earth and Goodwill to all men and women. Yes, the Goddess can be found throughout the Bible, both the Old and the New Testaments. The Keys to uncovering this Ancient Wisdom hidden in scripture are held by Philo of Alexandria.  

    May the Goddess Bless America and the World with the Wisdom to reject irrational, manmade fear that leads to war, and turn instead to the Source that reveals all Knowledge and Truth.

    Pax Amo Lux


    Posts : 7824
    Join date : 2010-09-28

    Re: The United States of the Solar System: A.D. 2133 (Book One)

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Mon Mar 30, 2015 6:02 pm

    I think we need to struggle with the material contained within this thread -- even if most of it ultimately turns-out to be utter-bullshit and/or pure unmitigated poppycock!! We need the mental and spiritual exercise. I believe there are things that go "bump" in the night -- but I'm not exactly sure what they might be!! I think there are really-mysterious and really-real beings (human and otherwise) behind the mythologies and theologies. I continue to recommend reading Job through Daniel (KJV) straight-through (over and over) preferably while listening to Sacred Classical Music -- as an exercise and a point of reference -- but don't expect this to make you happy. It's a nasty-task -- but most of us should probably do it. Do it for answers!!

    Thank-you A1. There's something I like about Manly Hall, Helena Blavatsky, Gerald Massey, et al -- yet I am very wary of getting 'sucked-into' that sort of thing. I tend to sample it -- and then run for my life!! I'm tending to settle upon Astronomy, Egyptology, Jesus-Studies, and Sacred Classical Music. I just wish that I had done Jesus-Studies at Claremont -- while remaining in the music program at the Crystal Cathedral. Things probably would've turned out a lot better for me. I would've loved to have been part of the Christian Bioethics Center at the Loma Linda University Medical Center -- although I continue to be an Ellen White Leaning Preventive Medicine Proponent (EWLPMP) -- which would've probably gotten me fired!! You MUST read 'John Harvey Kellogg, MD' by Richard Schwarz!! Please watch "The Road to Wellville"!! I'd still like to know the whole story regarding the Proton Accelerator at LLUMC!! What Would James Slater Say?? Think about the 'Healing Centers' in 'V'!! Nuff Said.

    What might be the proper relationship between the United Nations and the United States of the Solar System?? What Would David Rockefeller Say?? I tend to think that a Completely-Purified and Non-Corrupt Version of the United Nations might be a VERY useful branch of the United States of the Solar System!! Should the UN Representatives be part of the 10,000 USSS Representatives -- with Dual Voting Privileges?? Who knows?? I continue to think that people should study the 'Federalist Papers' in a devotional and scholarly manner. I continue to attempt to be a United Nations Constitutionalist -- rather than a Shotgun and Constitution in My Truck Constitutionalist. I continue to fear that basically good people can be riled-up and herded into doing just about anything. Just take a look at history. I continue to brainstorm -- and I am NOT being fed things to post. I have no one to blame but myself!! The Devil did NOT make me do it -- and neither did the Ancient Egyptian Deity!! What if the Devil is the Ancient Egyptian Deity?? What if our 'Close Encounters' were the 'Last Temptation of Satan'?? I once joked with them about bringing my Bible -- and shouting at them!! As we watched 'smoke' rise from dry-ice and water ('Smoke on the Water') -- I joked about the 'Bottomless Pit'!! Discussing the last chapter of 'The Great Controversy' made them shudder!! Once again, I tried to be polite, neutral, and questioning. Remember how Jesus conducted himself in the desert?? Think about it. Fighting with them -- or doing business with them -- would've probably been a BIG mistake. I probably screwed-up -- but I think it could've been a helluva lot worse. They talked a lot about their 'Mother' -- but I never met her -- not formally anyway. I'm trying NOT to think about this -- and there's a lot that I will NEVER talk about. Nuff Said.

    More Sherry Shriner!! Try watching the first four episodes of 'V' (2009) -- without a break -- and then immediately watching 'Battlestar Galactica: The Plan' -- repeatedly -- while thinking about 'Archangelic Queens of Heaven and the United States of the Solar System'. This is NOT a lightweight and fun study -- but I think that it is VERY necessary for SOME of you to do this. I think that top-level Masons, Jesuits, and Alphabet-Agents know exactly what I'm talking about -- and I'd love to be a fly on the wall during some of their secret meetings. But really, I don't think these meetings would make me happy -- to say the least. I keep thinking that the Dark Solar System Secrets are VERY Dark. The Horror. Still, I think I'd like to at least try to be a 'Palmer Joss -- Rachael Constantine -- Orthodoxymoron' composite-character in 'Real-Life' -- having a 'Room with a Cray' and an 'Unlimited-Access Badge'!!!  Heh heh It might be interesting to see how long THAT might last!!! I might end-up in a 'Room with a View' at Madigan!!! Then I might write my autobiography -- titled 'Going Mad at Madigan'. There might be a helluva lot of truth to what I just said. I know NOT what I ask -- so I should probably be a lot more careful regarding what I ask for. I keep having a vision of viewing Earth from the Moon -- and weeping and weeping and weeping -- and I'm NOT joking. I keep thinking that Earth Humanity was a Renegade-Innovation that turned into a Damn-Profitable Business. Righteous-Anger might've morphed into Reprehensible-Corruption. Just a thought. Nuff Said.

    I keep wondering and worrying about subsurface-bases, unconventional-spacecraft, unconventional-weaponry, and unregulated-laboratories -- throughout the solar system. I don't know that all of this exists -- but I suspect that it does. If it does indeed exist -- it might all be necessary and legitimate -- but I tend to be a Doubting-Thomas. Follow the Money -- Terrestrially and Extraterrestrially. On the other hand -- do we REALLY wish to open these Boxes of Pandora??? Perhaps we should just 'Leave Everything in the Lord's Hands'. I continue to worry that this solar system might crucify a Kind and Loving God. Does this solar system really need to be ruled by 'Malevolent-Regressives'?? I have tried to be idealistic regarding Solar System Governance -- but I keep getting kicked where it counts -- by a Brutal Gang of Dracs. My limited exposure to Alpha Draconis and Council of Thuban Representatives have caused me to think in some rather unconventional ways -- regarding what the universe MIGHT be like. It might be stranger than we CAN think. However, I am very wary of becoming deeply involved in that sort of thing. I like the intellectualistic Thuban style -- but I keep thinking 'why clutter things up with seemingly non-sensical dragonian mumbo-jumbo??' I like the imagery of meeting with other-than-human beings -- and discussing various topics -- in a spaceship, base, asteroid, other planet, etc. -- but I still can't get into ThubanSpeak. I keep thinking that there might be a way of doing the 'Thuban-Thing' which mostly involves Astronomy, Egyptology, Jesus-Studies, and Sacred Classical Music -- in the context of a Draconian Queen-Ship!!! Do you see my point??? I didn't think so. I'm attempting to be open and honest -- yet this approach does not seem to be working. Perhaps I'm not vibrating fast enough -- or perhaps I'm just too ignorant and fearful. Perhaps I have become a backslidden and apostate Christian -- and God does not love me anymore. Perhaps giving people what they want -- and telling them what they wish to hear -- is really the way to go. Why try to swim upstream?? You must understand that a lot of what I post is experimental and theatrical. Don't take any of it too seriously (not that that's a problem). Nuff Said.

    It might be interesting to do an extensive critical review of both the original Project Avalon and the current Mists of Avalon forums. Who knows the most about these two forums?? We might be surprised!! I have often felt as if this sort of research is a dangerous waste of time -- yet I think that it might be important for some of us to keep challenging each other with new and strange information -- which the vast majority of the general public is not even aware of. Here are some of my 'Thuban Thoughts' from the original Project Avalon Forum. "I'm beginning a journey through the abraxasinas thread ...and I'm having a difficult time getting started. I've been reading bits and pieces...and I've even asked a few questions...but I've found it difficult to spend the many hours necessary to make a proper and fair analysis. So...this thread is intended to make me read the whole thread...and make observations along the way. This is sort of a public journal...and I have absolutely no agenda. I won't be asking abraxasinas direct questions...and I'll probably mostly be engaging in positive reinforcement and attempted understanding...with emphasis on 'attempted'. I won't be expecting comments from anyone...but feel free to comment. Again...this is just a public journal regarding abraxasinas and the Council of Thuban. Don't expect anything earth-shattering or profound to come of this. Here goes! I've been finding it helpful to listen to some music while reading the Thuban thread. It sort of puts me in the to speak." In a sense, what I've been doing on 'my' thread is sort of 'my' version of 'Thuban'. I have posted several 'Thuban' posts on 'my' thread -- and used a lot of reptilian and dragon images. I have imagined interacting with various beings from various solar systems -- and I have attempted to be non-judgmental in all of this -- but I have not attempted to be particularly reverent. In 'real-life' I might be quite different. I actually prefer communicating via keyboard -- as I'm pretty much a 'dud' in 'real-life'. I've been trying to think things through -- from both a Human and a Reptilian perspective. Perhaps someday I might have 'Dual-Citizenship' -- traveling throughout 'Reptilian-Sectors' in a 'Reptilian-Body' -- and through 'Human-Sectors' in a 'Human-Body' -- with a Namaste-Based Theological-Understanding. Nuff Said.

    We're probably ALL deluded -- with various conflicting delusions. Trying to think seems to have impaired my ability to think. Is 'Waking-Up' merely trading one delusion for another?? Ecclesiastes 9:5,6 states that the 'Dead Know Not Anything' -- but neither do most of the living. Will Appearances, Wealth, and Respectability be EVERYTHING in the Final-Judgment?? "The TRUTH Shall Set You Free". Don't Believe Lies. Will Ignorance, Apathy, and Sincerity be Legitimate Defenses in the Final-Judgment?? Will "The Devil Made Me Do It" hold-up in Galactic Court?? This thread might be Utter BS -- but know that "The Truth is Out There" -- and that it might be more "Out There" than most of us think. Perhaps if we removed all of the lies and delusions -- we might not have much left -- but I still think there is a spiritual and divine reality behind the mythologies and theologies. I've lately been tending to work outward from central principles and concepts -- and I continue to think that there is much to be gained from the right kind of political and theological science-fiction. This might be the best we can do -- until the veil is lifted. We truly see through a glass darkly. Please read Deuteronomy and Matthew -- side by side -- preferably in one day -- and notice the problems. Then think of Deuteronomy and Matthew -- side by side -- in the context of Ancient Babylon, Egypt, Israel, Greece, and Rome. Might we be dealing with a Great Controversy between Deuteronomy and Matthew?? Then, think of all of the above while watching 'Cleopatra' (1963). How about Truth-Seeking and Doing the Right Thing -- regardless of Rewards or Punishments?? I presently don't know if I'm Good or Evil -- Reincarnationally or Presently. This causes my mind to wander. I'm parked next to a nice BMW motorcycle -- and I think I might like to sell what little I have -- buy a BMW -- and just ride and ride and ride -- until I crash or run out of money -- or crash when I run out of money. Back to Reality. I've mentioned several Bible-Study Plans -- and here is a slight variation on that theme.

    1. Deuteronomy
    2. Psalms
    3. Proverbs
    4. Matthew
    5. John
    6. Hebrews

    Three Old Testament Books -- and Three New Testament Books -- which are quite sermon and concept oriented. I continue to think that reading Key Books of the Bible -- straight through -- is a proper research modality. I call it the 'Proof-Book Method' -- as opposed to the 'Proof-Text Method'. Try using Grammatical-Historical Hermeneutics -- being careful to exegete -- rather than simply homilitically-applying passages. Just a thought. Consider the Covenants. It might be interesting to view various secret covenants -- which might be quite ancient -- and constrictively binding. Blest be the ties that bind?? What are the 10 most important covenants and/or treaties -- which are currently in effect within this solar system?? Nuff Said.

    A biblical covenant is an agreement—generally between God and humanity—recorded in the text of the Bible, the common Holy Scriptures of both the Jewish and Christian religions (although the New Testament, which Christians view as specifying the New Covenant, and Deuterocanonicals, are not canonical to Judaism). It is the customary word used to translate the Hebrew word berith.[1] It is used in the Tanakh 264 times[2] (see appended list). All Abrahamic religions consider the biblical covenant important. The equivalent word in the Septuagint and the Greek New Testament is διαθήκη, diatheke.[3]

    In theology and biblical studies, the word "covenant" principally refers to any of a number of solemn agreements made between God and the Children of Israel and their proselytes in the Hebrew Bible, as well as to the New Covenant, which some Christians consider to be the "replacement" or "final fulfilment" of these. Likewise, some Christians use the term Old Covenant to collectively refer to the covenants described in their Old Testament, of which they hold different views.

    The foundation of the Torah is the belief that God chose the Children of Israel and made his covenant with them. This covenant requires the Children of Israel to live their lives guided by the commandments with proselytes having their own commandments while Gentiles are only obligated to observe the Noahide Laws to be assured of a place in the World to Come.

    Conditional and unconditional covenants

    Although covenants in the Ancient Near East could have parity between parties (i.e. such as agreements between Hittites and Egyptians), covenants in the Torah were generally one-sided. However, covenants can either be conditional or unconditional in the Torah. Some appear to have the form of a Suzerainty treaty where there are clear stipulation to be upheld by both parties involved, but other covenants do not have stipulations and represent a divine charter or gift. As an example see Abrahamic covenant below that can involve both conditional and unconditional covenants.

    Noahic covenant

    The Rainbow set as the symbol of the Covenant with Noah after the Deluge of the Bible.
    See also: Noahide Laws and Council of Jerusalem

    The Noahic covenant [Gen 8-9] applies to all of humanity and to all living creatures.[4] In this covenant, God:
    1.blesses[9:1] and commands[9:7][5] Noah and his sons, that they should be fruitful and multiply, and populate the Earth
    2.places all plants and animals under human command[9:2-3]
    3.forbids eating meat with the blood still in it[9:4]
    4.forbids murder[9:5]
    5.Says that violent men will be repaid by violence[9:6]
    6.promises that God will never again destroy all life on earth by flood[9:11]
    7.creates the rainbow as the sign of this "everlasting covenant" for all ages to come[9:12-17]

    On this topic, the pseudepigraphal book of Jubilees, used by scholars as a historical source for the beliefs of those who composed it in the period in which it was composed,[6] states:

    And in the twenty-eighth jubilee [1324-1372 A.M.] Noah began to enjoin upon his sons' sons the ordinances and commandments, and all the judgments that he knew, and he exhorted his sons to observe righteousness, and to cover the shame of their flesh, and to bless their Creator, and honour father and mother, and love their neighbour, and guard their souls from fornication and uncleanness and all iniquity. For owing to these three things came the flood upon the earth ... For whoso sheddeth man's blood, and whoso eateth the blood of any flesh, shall all be destroyed from the earth.

    —Jubilees 7:20–28[7]

    Abrahamic covenant

    The Abrahamic covenant, found in Genesis 12-17, is known as the Brit bein HaBetarim, the "Covenant Between the Parts" in Hebrew, and is a commandment for brit milah in Judaism. The covenant was for Abraham and his seed, or offspring,[8] both of natural birth and adoption Genesis 17:1–13.[9]

    According to the documentary hypothesis, in Genesis 12–17 three covenants can be distinguished based on the differing J, E, P, and D sources.[10] In Gen. 12 and 15, God grants Abram land and descendants but does not place any stipulations (unconditional). By contrast, Gen. 17 contains the covenant of circumcision (conditional).
    To make of Abraham a great nation and to bless those who bless him and curse those who curse him and all peoples on earth would be blessed through Abraham.[Gen 12–3]
    To give Abraham's descendants all the land from the river (or wadi) of Egypt to the Euphrates. [Gen 15–21] Wadi means seasonal river in reference to the Nile Delta which flooded seasonally during those days. Later, this land came to be referred to as the Promised Land or the Land of Israel, however the land specified by the Abrahamic Covenant also includes the modern nations of Saudi Arabia, Oman, Yemen, Turkey, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Kuwait, UAE, and several other nations within the Middle East Region.
    To make Abraham a father of many nations and of many descendants and the land of Canaan as well as the entire Middle East to his descendant.[Gen 17–9]
    Circumcision is to be the permanent sign of this everlasting covenant with Abraham and his male descendants and is known as the covenant of circumcision.[Gen 17–14]

    Covenant with Isaac

    The Abrahamic Covenant of Isaac did not pass to all the descendants of Isaac, however. From Isaac the Covenant passed to Jacob [Gen 27] and from Jacob the Covenant passed to Joseph [48:3-4]and then to his son Ephraim [48:17-19] so that while it was prophesied that the Messiah would come from Jacob's descendant Judah a.k.a. the Jewish people the birthright of many nations remained with Joseph's son Ephraim. [5:1-2] However the Ephraimites were defeated by the Assyrians in 556 BC and systematically dispersed throughout the Assyrian Empire (which included parts of the modern nations of Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Syria, Iraq, etc.) so that their modern day identity has been lost. Many groups have attempted to claim this identity, see Ten Lost Tribes, however, most of these groups in America, Britain and Australia do not correspond to the locations specified in the Abrahamic Covenant.

    Covenant with Jacob

    God appears to Jacob in a dream, and promises:
    To give him and his descendants the land on which he is lying
    That his descendants will be numerous like the dust of the earth
    That all peoples on earth will be blessed through him and his offspring.
    To watch over him wherever he goes.[Gen 28-15]

    Mosaic covenant

    The Mosaic Covenant, beginning in Exodus 19-24, contains the foundations of the Torah. In this covenant, God promises:
    To make the children of Israel His special possession among all people if they obey God and keep his covenant [Exo 19]
    To make the children of Israel a kingdom of priests and a holy nation[Exo 19]
    To give the children of Israel the Sabbath as the permanent sign of this covenant [31:12-17]

    As part of the terms of this covenant, God gives Moses the Ten Commandments. These will later be elaborated in the rest of the Pentateuch. The form of the covenant resembles the suzerainty treaty in the ancient Near East[11] but those are not matching exactly. Like the treaties, the Decalogue begins with Yahweh's identification and his doing for Israel ("who brought you out of the land of Egypt; Ex 20:2) as well as the stipulations commanding absolute loyalty ("You shall not have other gods apart from me"). Yet, unlike the suzerainty treaty, the Decalogue in the book of Exodus does not have any witness nor explicit blessings & curses.[12] The fullest account of the Mosaic covenant is given in the book of Deuteronomy.

    The priestly covenant

    The Hebrew Bible contains two priestly covenants. One with the sons of Aaron, another specific covenant with Phinehas.

    The Israel covenant

    The Israel covenant[Deut. 29-29] [30:1-10] is a conditional covenant between God and the children of Israel. After warning that Israel will be dispersed among the nations, and conditional to Israel's repentance, return to God, and obedience to the Mosaic law. In regard to this covenant Israel and the Jewish people are referenced separately so that when God refers to Israel he is referring the descendants of Ephraim.[Jer 31-10] The Lord also says that he has chosen Israel over Judah i.e. the Jewish people in regard to the return to the land. [Jer 3-14] God promises:
    1.That Israel would lose their identity[Isa 7]
    2.That while Israel (Ephraim) will become many nations between the Nile and the Euphrates, yet only a remnant of the people of Ephraim will return[Isa 10]
    3.That Israel and Judah will be at war with each other, but that the Lord would bring about a peace between Israel and Judah[Zech 9] [11:14] [Jer 30-7]
    4.That Ephraim would return to Lebanon and Gilead, which is located in Western Jordan [Zech 10-10]
    5.That there would be a conflict between Ephraim and many other nations of the World[Deut 33] [Zech 9]
    6.The remnant that will return from Ephraim will be the descendants of those who did not bow to Baal[1 Kings 19:10-18]
    7.That a new nation of Ephraim will form south of Israel in Saudi Arabia or Egypt. A nation the Jewish people will refer to as Sodom[Ezek 16,49]
    8.To regather Israel from its dispersion and unite them with Judah, but that Judah would not recognize them [Ezek 16-63] [Deut 33]
    9.That a people who are called "Not his people" will be called his people[Hos 1]
    10.To bring the Israelites to the land which their fathers possessed (here named Land of Canaan)[Hos 1]
    11.To prosper the Israelites above their fathers.
    12.To restore the Israelites spiritually so that Israel will love the Lord with all their heart and soul
    13.To put all the curses of Israel upon Israel's enemies
    14.That the descendants of Judah, i.e. the Jewish people, would return to where their family "Israel" already was [Deut 33]

    Davidic covenant

    The Davidic covenant[2 Sam 7] establishes David and his descendants as the rightful kings of Israel[Jer 33-21] (including Judah from whom also the Messiah comes[Gen 49]). In Christian theology, the Davidic covenant is an important element of Jesus' as the Messiah (see also Nativity of Jesus). Christian scholar John F. Walvoord maintains that the Davidic covenant deserves an important place in determining the purposes of God and that its exegesis confirms the doctrine of a future reign of Christ on earth.[13] According to Christian theology, the "features" or provisions of the Davidic covenant are found in 2 Samuel 7:12-16. While Jewish theologians have always pointed out that Jesus did not fulfil the political expectations of a messiah (liberation of the Jewish political state), for conservative Christian theologians, the opinion is almost unanimous that Christ fulfills the Davidic Covenant, the provisions of which include the following items:
    1.David is to have a child, yet to be born, who shall succeed him and establish his kingdom.
    2.A son (Solomon) shall build the temple instead of David.
    3.The throne of his kingdom shall be established forever.
    4.The throne will not be taken away from him (Solomon) even though his sins justify chastisement.
    5.David’s house, throne, and kingdom shall be established forever.[13]

    National covenants

    National covenants by the nations of Israel and Judah can be found in texts such as Exodus 19:8, Joshua 24:24, 2 Kings 3:3 (Josiah), 2 Chron. 15:8-15, 23:16, 34:31-32, Nehemiah 10:29 and Jeremiah 50:5. National covenants were often associated with times of spiritual renewal or revival.

    Personal covenants

    Personal covenants or commitments abound in the Scriptures and are prominent in the Psalms. They may be prefaced with expressions such as "I will". One example is: "I will praise thee, O Lord, with my whole heart; I will shew forth all thy marvelous works."[Ps 9] Another is: "I will extol thee, my God, O king; and I will bless thy name for ever and ever. Every day will I bless thee; and I will praise thy name for ever and ever." [Ps 145-2]

    The New Covenant in Christianity

    The writings of the New Testament

    The Gospels: Luke tells of the birth of John the Baptist. His father, Zacharias, prophesied at the time. In his prophecy he says that God has remembered His holy covenant. The events at the beginning of the Christian story are connected to the covenant God made with Abraham.[14] Just before his crucifixion, Jesus celebrated the Passover with his disciples. All three of the synoptic gospels describe the special attention he gives to the bread and the wine. When he presents the wine to his disciples, he says that it is the blood of the covenant poured out for them.[15] Matthew explains that the pouring out of the blood was done for the forgiveness of sins. Luke calls it the new covenant.

    The Book of Acts: Peter and John heal a crippled man. Peter speaks to the wondering crowd. He says they are the children of the covenant God made with their fathers and quotes the promise to Abraham, "And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed." Peter tells them that God has sent the resurrected Jesus first to them to bless them and forgive them of their sins. He proclaims Jesus to be the covenant "seed" promised to Abraham.[16]

    Epistle to the Romans: Paul addresses God's covenantal relationship with the Jewish people.[17] He states emphatically that God has not rejected the Jewish people. To drive home his point, he recalls the time when Elijah felt all alone in his service to God. God assured Elijah that he wasn't alone, that there were 7000 that had not bowed the knee to Baal.[18] Paul says that the Jewish people's rejection of Christ was a stumbling but not a falling.[19] He writes that the Jewish rejection has opened the way for the Gentiles to be saved. Paul considers this turn of events to be a great blessing for the Gentiles. He then asks, if this Jewish failure to accept Christ brought such blessings to the world, what greater blessings will come when the Jewish people finally join the fellowship.[20]

    Christian views of the New Covenant

    The Christian New Covenant involves the theological concept of a new relationship between God and humans mediated by Jesus. This new relationship is available to all people,[21] both Jews and Gentiles.

    Christians vary in their view of the New Covenant. Some believe the New Covenant extends the Mosaic Covenant but it seemingly accomplishes new things.[22] Christian laws of faith claim that a New Covenant of the trinitarian God with the Christians and the Christian Church replaces, fulfills or completes God's Mosaic covenant. See also Types of Supersessionism.

    The only reference in the Hebrew Bible that uses the wording "new covenant" is found in the Book of Jeremiah, Chapters 30-33 (God's promise of restoration), Chapter 31, Verses 31-34:

    ³¹Behold, days are coming - the word of HASHEM - when I will seal a new covenant with the House of Israel and with the House of Judah. It will not be like the covenant I made with their forefathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them," declares the Lord. "This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time," declares the Lord. "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest," declares the Lord. "For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more." (Jeremiah 31:31-34)

    This prophet's word refers to the birth of Jesus Christ and his atonement on the cross (Matthew 26:28), as well as the expounding of proper interpretation of the law, based on principle rather than rule (Matthew 5:21-48).

    Covenant in Islam

    As an Abrahamic faith Islam continues the belief of the Covenant with Abraham. Circumcision is still carried out as a symbol of this Covenant. A blood link is not required either. Any person confessing to faith can become a Muslim and partake of this Covenant with God:

    Remember We made the House a place of assembly for men and a place of safety; and take ye the station of Abraham as a place of prayer; and We Covenanted with Abraham and Isma'il, that they should sanctify My House for those who compass it round, or use it as a retreat, or bow, or prostrate themselves (therein in prayer).[Quran 2]

    See also
    Oaths in Jewish tradition
    Covenant theology
    Covenantal nomism
    Covenant (Latter Day Saints)
    Law in Christianity
    Lawsuits against God
    Covenant of Bahá'u'lláh, founder of another Abrahamic religion


    1.^ (ברית Tiberian Hebrew bərîṯ Standard Hebrew bərit)
    2.^ [1]
    3.^ The Blue Letter Bible, Strong's G1242.
    4.^ Jenkins, Everett (2003). The creation: secular, Jewish, Catholic, Protestant, and Muslim perspectives analyzed. Jefferson, NC: McFarland. p. 283. ISBN 0-7864-1042-6.
    5.^ Rashi on Gen. 9:7: "And you, be fruitful and multiply: According to its simple meaning: the first [mention] (verse 1) was a blessing, and this [mention] is a commandment. According to its midrashic interpretation, [it is written here] to compare one who does not engage in propagation to one who sheds . — [from Yev. 63b]"
    6.^ (considered canonical only by the Ethiopian Orthodox: considered to be a 2nd century BC composition, as per Charlesworth, Old Testament Pseudepigrapha, Vol. 2, Book of Jubilees: Introduction and Dating)
    7.^ The Book of Jubilees: Noah offers Sacrifice; the Cursing of Canaan (cf. Gen. ix. 20-28): Noah's Sons and Grandsons (cf. Gen. x.) and their Cities. Noah's Admonitions (vii. 1-39). p. 68 The quote given is by R. H. Charles's superseded 1913 translation from the Koine Greek, but Jubilees is also extant in Geez - which is used extensively in modern critical editions, such as in Charlesworth's Old Testament Pseudepigrapha - and multiple texts found at Qumran[citation needed] which are still being examined.
    8.^ "Blue Letter Bible: Dictionary and Word Search for zera` (Strong's 2233)". 2011. Retrieved 2011-11-21.
    9.^ Genesis 17:11–13 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you. And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed. He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.
    10.^ Michael D. Coogan, A Brief Introduction to the Old Testament, (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2009), 62–68
    11.^ Kline, Meredith. "Deuteronomy". The Zondervan Pictorial Bible Dictionary
    12.^ Michael D. Coogan, "A Brief Introduction to the Old Testament" page 103, Oxford University Press, 2009
    13.^ a b Walvoord, John F. "Eschatological Problems VII: The Fulfillment of the Davidic Covenant." Web: 19 Mar 2010. Fulfillment of the Davidic Covenant
    14.^ [Luke 1-79]
    15.^ [Matthew 26-28][Mark 14-25] [Luke 22-20]
    16.^ [Acts 3-26]
    17.^ [Romans 11-36]
    18.^ [Romans 11-4]
    19.^ [Romans 11-12]
    20.^ [Romans 11]
    21.^ New Covenant (Ezekiel 47:21–23; Isaiah 2:1–4; 11:10; 56:1-8; Micah 4:1–5)
    22.^ "Unlike Christianity, Judaism does not deny salvation to those outside of its fold, for, according to Jewish law, all non-Jews who observe the Noahide laws will participate in salvation and in the revards of the world to come". H. Revel, Universal Jewish Encyclopedia; Universal Jewish Encyclopedia Inc., New York, 1939-1943, pp. 227-228.

    Further reading
    Paul Fiddes (1985). 'Covenant - Old and New', in P. Fiddes, R. Hayden, R. Kidd, K. Clements, and B. Haymes, Bound to love: the covenant basis of Baptist life and mission, pp. 9-23. London: Baptist Union.
    Truman G. Madsen and Seth Ward (2001). Covenant and Chosenness in Judaism and Mormonism. Fairleigh Dickinson University Press. ISBN 0-8386-3927-5. it was very a raw flim

    "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered
    thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!" -- Matthew 23:37 (KJV)

    Last edited by orthodoxymoron on Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:42 am; edited 1 time in total

    Posts : 7824
    Join date : 2010-09-28

    Re: The United States of the Solar System: A.D. 2133 (Book One)

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Mon Mar 30, 2015 6:19 pm

    Consider Epistemology. Wed Dec 14, 2005

    Defined narrowly, epistemology is the study of knowledge and justified belief. As the study of knowledge, epistemology is concerned with the following questions: What are the necessary and sufficient conditions of knowledge? What are its sources? What is its structure, and what are its limits? As the study of justified belief, epistemology aims to answer questions such as: How we are to understand the concept of justification? What makes justified beliefs justified? Is justification internal or external to one's own mind? Understood more broadly, epistemology is about issues having to do with the creation and dissemination of knowledge in particular areas of inquiry. This article will provide a systematic overview of the problems that the questions above raise and focus in some depth on issues relating to the structure and the limits of knowledge and justification.
    •1. What is Knowledge? ◦1.1 Knowledge as Justified True Belief
    ◦1.2 The Gettier Problem

    •2. What is Justification? ◦2.1 Deontological and Non-Deontological justification
    ◦2.2 Evidence vs. Reliability
    ◦2.3 Internal vs. External
    ◦2.4 Why Internalism?
    ◦2.5 Why Externalism?

    •3. The Structure of Knowledge and Justification ◦3.1 Foundationalism
    ◦3.2 Coherentism
    ◦3.3 Why Foundationalism?
    ◦3.4 Why Coherentism?

    •4. Sources of Knowledge and Justification ◦4.1 Perception
    ◦4.2 Introspection
    ◦4.3 Memory
    ◦4.5 Reason
    ◦4.6 Testimony

    •5. The Limits of Knowledge and Justification ◦5.1 The Case for Skepticism
    ◦5.2 Skepticism and Closure
    ◦5.3 Relevant Alternatives and Denying Closure
    ◦5.4 The Moorean Response
    ◦5.5 The Contextualist Response
    ◦5.6 The Ambiguity Response
    ◦5.7 Knowing One Isn't a BIV

    •6. Additional Issues ◦6.1 Virtue Epistemology
    ◦6.2 Naturalistic Epistemology
    ◦6.3 Religious Epistemology
    ◦6.4 Moral Epistemology
    ◦6.5 Social Epistemology
    ◦6.6 Feminist Epistemology

    •Other Internet Resources
    •Related Entries


    1. What is Knowledge?

    1.1 Knowledge as Justified True Belief

    There are various kinds of knowledge: knowing how to do something (for example, how to ride a bicycle), knowing someone in person, and knowing a place or a city. Although such knowledge is of epistemological interest as well, we shall focus on knowledge of propositions and refer to such knowledge using the schema ‘S knows that p’, where ‘S’ stands for the subject who has knowledge and ‘p’ for the proposition that is known.[1] Our question will be: What are the necessary and sufficient conditions for S to know that p? We may distinguish, broadly, between a traditional and a non-traditional approach to answering this question. We shall refer to them as ‘TK’ and ‘NTK’.

    According to TK, knowledge that p is, at least approximately, justified true belief (JTB). False propositions cannot be known. Therefore, knowledge requires truth. A proposition S doesn't even believe can't be a proposition that S knows. Therefore, knowledge requires belief. Finally, S's being correct in believing that p might merely be a matter of luck.[2] Therefore, knowledge requires a third element, traditionally identified as justification. Thus we arrive at a tripartite analysis of knowledge as JTB: S knows that p if and only if p is true and S is justified in believing that p. According to this analysis, the three conditions — truth, belief, and justification — are individually necessary and jointly sufficient for knowledge.[3]

    Initially, we may say that the role of justification is to ensure that S's belief is not true merely because of luck. On that, TK and NTK are in agreement. They diverge, however, as soon as we proceed to be more specific about exactly how justification is to fulfill this role. According to TK, S's belief that p is true not merely because of luck when it is reasonable or rational, from S's own point of view, to take p to be true. According to evidentialism, what makes a belief justified in this sense is the possession of evidence. The basic idea is that a belief is justified to the degree it fits S's evidence. NTK, on the other hand, conceives of the role of justification differently. Its job is to ensure that S's belief has a high objective probability of truth and therefore, if true, is not true merely because of luck. One prominent idea is that this is accomplished if, and only if, a belief originates in reliable cognitive processes or faculties. This view is known as reliabilism.[4]

    1.2 The Gettier Problem

    The tripartite analysis of knowledge as JTB has been shown to be incomplete. There are cases of JTB that do not qualify as cases of knowledge. JTB, therefore, is not sufficient for knowledge. Cases like that — known as Gettier-cases[5]— arise because neither the possession of evidence nor origination in reliable faculties is sufficient for ensuring that a belief is not true merely because of luck. Consider the well-known case of barn-facades: Henry drives through a rural area in which what appear to be barns are, with the exception of just one, mere barn facades. From the road Henry is driving on, these facades look exactly like real barns. Henry happens to be looking at the one and only real barn in the area and believes that there's a barn over there. Henry's belief is justified, according to TK, because Henry's visual experience justifies his belief. According to NTK, his belief is justified because Henry's belief originates in a reliable cognitive process: vision. Yet Henry's belief is plausibly viewed as being true merely because of luck. Had Henry noticed one of the barn-facades instead, he would also have believed that there's a barn over there. There is, therefore, broad agreement among epistemologists that Henry's belief does not qualify as knowledge.[6]

    To state conditions that are jointly sufficient for knowledge, what further element must be added to JTB? This is known as the Gettier problem. According to TK, solving the problem requires a fourth condition. According to some NTK theorists, it calls for refining the concept of reliability. For example, if reliability could suitably be indexed to the subject's environment, reliabilists could say that Henry's belief is not justified because in his environment, vision is not reliable when it comes to discerning barns from barn-facades.[7]

    Some NTK theorists bypass the justification condition altogether. They would say that, if we conceive of knowledge as reliably produced true belief, there is no need for justification. Reliabilism, then, comes in two forms: as a theory of justification or as a theory of knowledge. As the former, it views justification to be an important ingredient of knowledge but, unlike TK, grounds justification solely in reliability. As a theory of knowledge, reliabilism asserts that justification is not necessary for knowledge; rather, reliably produced true belief (provided the notion of reliability is suitably refined to rule out Gettier cases) is sufficient for it.[8]

    2. What is Justification?

    When we discuss the nature of justification, we must distinguish between two different issues: First, what do we mean when we use the word ‘justification’? Second, what makes beliefs justified? It is important to keep these issues apart because a disagreement on how to answer the second question will be a mere verbal dispute, if the disagreeing parties have different concepts of justification in mind. So let us first consider what we might mean by ‘justification’ and then move on to the non-definitional issues.[9]

    2.1 Deontological and Non-Deontological Justification

    How is the term ‘justification’ used in ordinary language? Here is an example: Tom asked Martha a question, and Martha responded with a lie. Was she justified in lying? Jane thinks she was, for Tom's question was an inappropriate one, the answer to which was none of Tom's business. What might Jane mean when she thinks that Martha was justified in responding with a lie? A natural answer is this: She means that Martha was under no obligation to refrain from lying. Due the inappropriateness of Tom's question, it wasn't Martha's duty to tell the truth. This understanding of justification, commonly labeled deontological, may be defined as follows: S is justified in doing x if and only if S is not obliged to refrain from doing x.[10]

    Suppose, when we apply the word justification not to actions but to beliefs, we mean something analogous. In that case, the term ‘justification’ as used in epistemology would have to be defined this way:

    Deontological Justification (DJ)
    S is justified in believing that p if and only if S believes that p while it is not the case that S is obliged to refrain from believing that p.[11]

    What kind of obligations are relevant when we wish to assess whether a belief, rather than an action, is justified or unjustified? Whereas when we evaluate an action, we are interested in assessing the action from either a moral or a prudential point of view, when it comes to beliefs, what matters is the pursuit of truth. The relevant kinds of obligations, then, are those that arise when we aim at having true beliefs. Exactly what, though, must we do in the pursuit of this aim? According to one answer, the one favored by evidentialists, we ought to believe in accord with our evidence. For this answer to be helpful, we need an account of what our evidence consists of. According to another answer, we ought to follow the correct epistemic norms. If this answer is going to help us figure out what obligations the truth-aim imposes on us, we need to be given an account of what the correct epistemic norms are.[12]

    The deontological understanding of the concept of justification is common to the way philosophers such as Descartes, Locke, Moore and Chisholm have thought about justification. Today, however, the dominant view is that the deontological understanding of justification is unsuitable for the purposes of epistemology. Two chief objections have been raised against conceiving of justification deontologically. First, it has been argued that DJ presupposes that we can have a sufficiently high degree of control over our beliefs. But beliefs are akin not to actions but rather things such as digestive processes, sneezes, or involuntary blinkings of the eye. The idea is that beliefs simply arise in or happen to us. Therefore, beliefs are not suitable for deontological evaluation.[13] To this objection, some advocates of DJ have replied that lack of control over our beliefs is no obstacle to using the term ‘justification’ in its deontological sense.[14] Others have argued that it's a mistake to think that we can control our beliefs any less than our actions.[15]

    According to the second objection to DJ, deontological justification does not tend to ‘epistemize’ true beliefs: it does not tend to make them non-accidentally true. This claim is typically supported by describing cases involving either a benighted, culturally isolated society or subjects who are cognitively deficient. Such cases involve beliefs that are claimed to be epistemically defective even though it would not seem that the subjects in these cases are under any obligation to refrain from believing as they do. What makes the beliefs in question epistemically defective is that they are formed using unreliable and intellectually faulty methods. The reason why the subjects, from their own point of view, are not obliged to believe otherwise is that they are either cognitively deficient or live in a benighted and isolated community. DJ says that such beliefs are justified. If they meet the remaining necessary conditions, DJ-theorists would have to count them as knowledge. According to the objection, however, the beliefs in question, even if true, could not possibly qualify as knowledge, due to the epistemically defective way they were formed. Consequently, DJ must be rejected.[16]

    Those who reject DJ use the term ‘justification’ in a technical sense that deviates from how the word is ordinarily used. The technical sense is meant to make the term suitable for the needs of epistemology.[17] But how are we then to conceive of justification? What does it mean for a belief to be justified in a non-deontological sense? Recall that the role assigned to justification is that of ensuring that a true belief isn't true merely by accident. Let us say that this is accomplished when a true belief instantiates the property of proper probabilification. We may, then, define non-deontological justification as follows:

    Non-Deontological Justification (NDJ)
    S is justified in believing that p if and only if S believes that p on a basis that properly probabilifies S's belief that p.

    If we wish to pin down exactly what probabilification amounts to, we will have to deal with a variety of tricky issues.[18] For now, let us just focus on the main point. Those who prefer NDJ to DJ would say that probabilification and deontological justification can diverge: it's possible for a belief to be deontologically justified without being properly probabilified. This is just what cases involving benighted cultures or cognitively deficient subjects are supposed to show.[19]

    2.2 Evidence vs. Reliability

    What makes justified beliefs justified? According to evidentialists, it is the possession of evidence. What is it, though, to possess evidence for believing that p? Some evidentialists would say it is to be in a mental state that represents p as being true. For example, if the coffee in your cup tastes sweet to you, then you have evidence for believing that the coffee is sweet. If you feel a throbbing pain in your head, you have evidence for believing that you have a headache. If you have a memory of having had cereal for breakfast, then you have evidence for a belief about the past: a belief about what you ate when you had breakfast. And when you clearly "see" or "intuit" that the proposition "If Jack had more than four cups of coffee, then Jack had more than three cups of coffee" is true, then you have evidence for believing that proposition. In this view, evidence consists of perceptual, introspective, memorial, and intuitional experiences, and to possess evidence is to have an experience of that kind. So according to this evidentialism, what makes you justified in believing that p is your having an experience that represents p as being true.

    Many reliabilists, too, would say that the experiences mentioned in the previous paragraph matter. However, they would deny that justification is solely a matter of having suitable experiences. Rather, they hold that a belief is justified if, and only if, it results from cognitive origin that is reliable: an origin that tends to produce true beliefs and therefore properly probabilifies the belief. Reliabilists, then, would agree that the beliefs mentioned in the previous paragraph are justified. But according to a standard form of reliabilism, what makes them justified is not the possession of evidence, but the fact that the types of processes in which they originate — perception, introspection, memory, and rational intuition — are reliable.

    2.3 Internal vs. External

    In contemporary epistemology, there has been an extensive debate on whether justification is internal or external. Internalists claim that it is internal; externalists deny it. How are we to understand these claims?

    To understand what the internal-external distinction amounts to, we need to bear in mind that, when a belief is justified, there is something that makes it justified. Likewise, if a belief is unjustified, there is something that makes it unjustified. Let's call the things that make a belief justified or unjustified J-factors. The dispute over whether justification is internal or external is a dispute about what the J-factors are.

    Among those who think that justification is internal, there is no unanimity on how to understand the concept of internality. We can distinguish between two approaches. According to the first, justification is internal because we enjoy a special kind of access to J-factors: they are always recognizable on reflection.[20] Hence, assuming certain further premises (which will be mentioned momentarily), justification itself is always recognizable on reflection.[21] According to the second approach, justification is internal because J-factors are always mental states.[22] Let's call the former accessibility internalism and the latter mentalist internalism. Externalists deny that J-factors meet either one of these conditions.

    Evidentialism is typically associated with internalism, and reliabilism with externalism.[23] Let us see why. Evidentialism says, at a minimum, two things:

    E1 Whether one is justified in believing p depends on one's evidence regarding p.

    E2 One's evidence consists of one's mental states.

    By virtue of E2, evidentialism is obviously an instance of mentalist internalism.

    Whether evidentialism is also an instance of accessibility internalism is a more complicated issue. The conjunction of E1 and E2 by itself implies nothing about the recognizability of justification. Recall, however, that in Section 1.1 we distinguished between TK and NTK: the traditional and the nontraditional approach to the analysis of knowledge and justification. TK advocates, among which evidentialism enjoys widespread sympathy, tend to endorse the following two claims:

    One's own mind is cognitively luminous: Relying on introspection, one can always recognize on reflection what mental states one is in.[24]
    a priori recognizable, necessary principles say what is evidence for what.[25] Relying on a priori insight, one can therefore always recognize on reflection whether one's mental states are evidence for p.[26]

    Although E1 and E2 by themselves do not imply access internalism, it is quite plausible to maintain that evidentialism, when embellished with Luminosity and Necessity, becomes an instance of access internalism.[27]

    Next, let us consider why reliabilism is an externalist theory. Reliabilism says that the justification of one's beliefs is a function of, not one's evidence, but the reliability of one's belief sources such as memorial, perceptual and introspective states and processes. Whereas the sources might qualify as mental, their reliability does not. Therefore, reliabilists reject mentalist internalism. Moreover, if the justification of one's beliefs is determined by the reliability of one's belief sources, justification will not always be recognizable on reflection. Hence reliabilists reject access internalism as well.[28]

    Let's use an example of radical deception to illustrate the difference between evidentialism as an internalist theory and reliabilism as an externalist theory. If evidentialism is true, a subject who is radically deceived will be mislead about what is actually the case, but not about what he is justified in believing. If, on the other hand, reliabilism is true, then such a subject will be misled about both what is actually the case and what he is justified in believing. Let us see why.

    Distinguish between Tim and Tim*: one and the same person whom we imagine in two altogether different situations. Tim's situation is normal, like yours or mine. Tim*, however, is a brain in a vat. Suppose a mad scientist abducted and "envatted" Tim* by removing his brain from his skull and putting it in a vat in which his brain is kept alive. Next, the mad scientist connects the nerve endings of Tim*'s brain with wires to a machine that, controlled by a powerful computer, starts stimulating Tim*'s brain in such a way that Tim* does not notice what actually happened to him. He is going to have perfectly ordinary experiences, just like Tim. Indeed, let's assume that the mental states of Tim and the mental states of Tim* are alike. But, since Tim* is a brain in a vat, he is, unlike Tim, radically deceived about his actual situation. For example, when Tim believes he has hands, he is right. When Tim* believes he has hands, he is mistaken. (His hands were discarded, along with the rest of his limbs and torso.) When Tim believes he is drinking coffee, he is right. When Tim* believes he is drinking coffee, he is mistaken. (Brains don't drink coffee.) Now suppose Tim* asks himself whether he is justified in believing that he has hands. Since Tim* is just like Tim, Tim* will say that his belief is justified, just as Tim would if he were to ask himself whether he is justified in believing that he has hands. Evidentialism implies that Tim*'s answer is correct. For even though he is deceived about his external situation, he is not deceived about his evidence: the way things appear to him in his experiences. This illustrates the internality of evidentialist justification. Reliabilism, on the other hand, suggests that Tim*'s answer is incorrect. Tim*'s belief that he has hands originates in cognitive processes — "seeing" and "feeling" his (nonexisting) hands — that now yield virtually no true beliefs. To the extent that this implies their unreliability, the resulting beliefs are unjustified. Consequently, he is deceived not only about his external situation (his not having hands), but also about the justificational status of his belief that he has hands. This illustrates the externality of reliabilist justification.

    The example of Tim and Tim* may serve as well to illustrate a further way in which we may conceive of the difference between internalism and externalism. Some internalists take the following principle to be characteristic of the internalist point of view:

    If two subjects, S and S*, are alike mentally, then the justificational status of their beliefs is alike as well: the same beliefs are justified or unjustified for them to the same extent.[29]

    When we apply this principle to the Tim/Tim* example, it tells us that evidentialism is an internalist and reliabilism an externalist theory. Even though there are significant physical differences between Tim and Tim*, mentally they are alike. Evidentialism implies that, since Tim and Tim* are mentally alike, they have the same evidence, and thus are justificationally alike as well. For example, they are both justified in believing that they have hands. This makes evidentialism an internalist theory. Reliabilism, on the other hand, allows that, even though Tim and Tim* are mentally alike, they differ justificationally, since Tim's beliefs are (by and large) produced by reliable cognitive faculties, whereas the faculties that produce Tim*'s beliefs may count as unreliable. For example, some versions of reliabilism imply that Tim is justified in believing that he has hands, whereas Tim* is not. This makes reliabilism an externalist theory.[30]

    2.4 Why Internalism?

    Why think that justification is internal? One argument for the internality of justification goes as follows: "Justification is deontological: it is a matter of duty-fulfillment. But duty-fulfillment is internal. Therefore, justification is internal." Another argument appeals to the brain-in-the-vat scenario we considered above: "Tim*'s belief that he has hands is justified in the way that Tim's is justifed. Tim* is internally the same as Tim and externally quite different. Therefore, internal factors are what justify beliefs." Finally, since justification resulting from the possession of evidence is internal justification, internalism can be supported by way of making a case for evidentialism. What, then, can be said in support of evidentialism? Evidentialists would appeal to cases in which a belief is reliably formed but not accompanied by any experiences that would qualify as evidence. They would say that it's not plausible to claim that, in cases like that, the subject's belief is justified. Hence such cases show, according to evidentialists, that a belief can't be justified unless it's supported by evidence.[31]

    2.5 Why Externalism?

    Why think that justification is external? To begin with, externalists about justification would point to the fact that animals and small children have knowledge and thus have justified beliefs. But their beliefs can't be justified in the way evidentialists conceive of justification. Therefore, we must conclude that the justification their beliefs enjoy is external: resulting not from the possession of evidence but from origination in reliable processes. And second, externalists would say that what we want from justification is the kind of objective probability needed for knowledge, and only external conditions on justification imply this probability. So justification has external conditions.[32]

    3. The Structure of Knowledge and Justification

    The debate over the structure of knowledge and justification is primarily one among those who hold that knowledge requires justification. From this point of view, the structure of knowledge derives from the structure of justification. We will, therefore, focus on the latter.

    3.1 Foundationalism

    According to foundationalism, our justified beliefs are structured like a building: they are divided into a foundation and a superstructure, the latter resting upon the former. Beliefs belonging to the foundation are basic. Beliefs belonging to the superstructure are nonbasic and receive justification from the justified beliefs in the foundation.[33]

    For a foundationalist account of justification to be plausible, it must solve two problems. First, by virtue of exactly what are basic beliefs justified? Second, how do basic beliefs justify nonbasic beliefs? Before we address these questions, let us first consider the question of what it is that makes a justified belief basic in the first place. Once we have done that, we can then move on to discuss by virtue of what a basic belief might be justified, and how such a belief might justify a nonbasic belief.

    According to one approach, what makes a justified belief basic is that it doesn't receive its justification from any other beliefs. The following definition captures this thought:

    Doxastic Basicality (DB)
    S's justified belief that p is basic if and only if S's belief that p is justified without owing its justification to any of S's other beliefs.

    Let's consider what would, according to DB, qualify as an example of a basic belief. Suppose you notice (for whatever reason) someone's hat, and you also notice that that hat looks blue to you. So you believe

    (B) It appears to me that that hat is blue.

    Unless something very strange is going on, (B) is an example of a justified belief. DB tells us that (B) is basic if and only if it does not owe its justification to any other beliefs of yours. So if (B) is indeed basic, there might be some item or other to which (B) owes its justification, but that item would not be another belief of yours. We call this kind of basicality ‘doxastic’ because it makes basicality a function of how your doxastic system (your belief system) is structured.

    Let us turn to the question of where the justification that attaches to (B) might come from, if we think of basicality as defined by DB. Note that DB merely tells us how (B) is not justified. It says nothing about how (B) is justified. DB, therefore, does not answer that question. What we need, in addition to DB, is an account of what it is that justifies a belief such as (B). According to one strand of foundationalist thought, (B) is justified because it can't be false, doubted, or corrected by others. So (B) is justified because (B) carries with it an epistemic privilege such as infallibility, indubitability, or incorrigibility.[34] The idea is that (B) is justified by virtue of its intrinsic nature, which makes it possess some kind of an epistemic privilege.

    Note that (B) is not a belief about the hat. Rather, it's a belief about how the hat appears to you. So (B) is an introspective belief about a perceptual experience of yours. According to the thought we are considering here, a subject's basic beliefs are made up of introspective beliefs about the subject's own mental states, of which perceptual experiences make up one subset. Other mental states about which a subject can have basic beliefs include such things as having a headache, being tired, feeling pleasure, or having a desire for a cup of coffee. Beliefs about external objects do not and indeed cannot qualify as basic, for it is impossible for such beliefs to own the kind of epistemic privilege needed for the status of being basic.

    According to a different version of foundationalism, (B) is justified not by virtue of possessing some kind of privileged status, but by some further mental state of yours. That mental state, however, is not a further belief of yours. Rather, it is the very perceptual experience that (B) is about: the hat's looking blue to you. Let ‘(E)’ represent that experience. According to this alternative proposal, (B) and (E) are distinct mental states. The idea is that what justifies (B) is (E). Since (E) is an experience, not a belief of yours, (B) is, according to DB, basic.

    Let's call the two versions of foundationalism we have distinguished privilege foundationalism and experiential foundationalism. Privilege foundationalism restricts basic beliefs to beliefs about one's own mental states. Experiential foundationalism is less restrictive. According to it, beliefs about external objects can be basic as well. Suppose instead of (B), you believe

    (H) That hat is blue.

    Unlike (B), (H) is about the hat itself, and not the way the hat appears to you. Such a belief is not one about which we are infallible or otherwise epistemically privileged. Privilege foundationalism would, therefore, classify (H) as nonbasic. It is, however, quite plausible to think that (E) justifies not only (B) but (H) as well. If (E) is indeed what justifies (H), and (H) does not receive any additional justification from any further beliefs of yours, then (H) qualifies, according to DB, as basic.

    Experiential Foundationalism, then, combines to two crucial ideas: (i) when a justified belief is basic, its justification is not owed to any other belief; (ii) what in fact justifies basic beliefs are experiences.

    Under ordinary circumstances, perceptual beliefs such as (H) are not based on any further beliefs about one's own perceptual experiences. It is unclear, therefore, how privilege foundationalism can account for the justification of ordinary perceptual beliefs like (H). Experiential foundationalism, on the other hand, has no trouble at all explaining how ordinary perceptual beliefs are justified: they are justified by the perceptual experiences that give rise to them. This could be viewed as a reason for preferring experiential foundationalism to privilege foundationalism.

    Above, we noted that how to think of basicality is not uncontroversial. DB defines just one kind of basicality. Here's an alternative conception of it:

    Epistemic Basicality (EB)
    S's justified belief that p is basic if and only if S's justification for believing that p does not depend on any justification S possesses for believing a further proposition, q.[35]

    EB makes it more difficult for a belief to be basic than DB does. To see why, we turn to the chief question (let's call it the ‘J-question’) that advocates of experiential foundationalism face:

    The J-Question
    Why are perceptual experiences a source of justification?

    One way of answering the J-question can be viewed as a compromise position, since it is meant to be a compromise between foundationalism and its competitor, coherentism. The compromise position will be of interest to us because it illustrates how DB and EB differ. For if we adopt the compromise position, beliefs such as (H) will qualify as basic according to DB, but according to EB as nonbasic. So let's see what the compromise position says.

    From a coherentist point of view, we might answer the J-question as follows: Perceptual experiences are a source of justification because we are justified in believing them to be reliable. As we will see below, making perceptual justification dependent on the existence of reliability-attributing beliefs is quite problematic. There is, however, an alternative answer to the J-question that appeals to reliability without making perceptual justification dependent upon beliefs that attribute reliability to perceptual experiences. According to this second answer to the J-question, perceptual experiences are a source of justification because we have justification for taking them to be reliable. That's the view we shall call the compromise position.[36]

    Note that your having justification for believing that p doesn't entail that you actually believe p. For example, if you believe that the person next to you wears a blue hat, you have justification for believing that the person next to you wears a blue hat or a red hat. But of course you are unlikely to believe the latter even though you have justification for it. Likewise, your having justification for attributing reliability to your perceptual experiences doesn't entail that you have given thought to the matter and actually formed the belief that they are reliable. According to the kind of coherentism we considered above, if your perceptual experiences are a source of justification for you, it must be the case that you have considered the matter and believe them to be reliable. The compromise position says no such thing. It says merely that, if your perceptual experiences are a source of justification for you, you must have justification for believing them to be reliable.

    What might give us justification for thinking that our perceptual experiences are reliable? That's a complicated issue. For our present purposes, let's consider the following answer: We remember that they have served us well in the past. We are supposing, then, that justification for attributing reliability to your perceptual experiences consists of memories of perceptual success. According to the compromise position, it is never a perceptual experience (E) by itself that justifies a perceptual belief, but only (E) in conjunction with suitable track-record memories that give you justification for considering (E) reliable. Let ‘(E)’ again stand for the hat's looking blue to you, and ‘(H)’ for your belief that that hat is blue. According to the compromise position, (E) justifies (H) only if (E) is accompanied by track-record memories (M) that give you justification for attributing reliability to your visual experiences. So what, according to the compromise position as we have described it, justifies (H) is the conjunction of (E) and (M).

    We can now see how DB and EB differ. According to the compromise position, your having justification for (H) depends on your having justification for believing something else in addition to (H), namely that your visual experiences are reliable. As a result (H) is not basic in the sense defined by EB. However, (H) might still be basic in the sense defined by DB. As long as your justification for (H) is owed solely to (E) and (M), neither of which includes any beliefs, DB tells us that (H) is basic. It follows that an experiential foundationalist who wishes to classify beliefs such as (H) as basic cannot adopt the compromise position. Such a foundationalist would have to say that (E) by itself is sufficient for making (H) a justified belief.

    How do experiential foundationalists who prefer EB to DB answer the J-question? Because of the way they conceive of basicality, they cannot say that perceptual experiences are a source of justification for you because you have a reason, R, for believing that they do. For R would be justification for believing something else — the very thing that, according to EB, is an obstacle to basicality. One option for EB-foundationalists would be to endorse externalism. If they do, they could say that perceptual experiences are a source of justification if, and only if, they are of types that are reliably associated with true resulting beliefs. On that view, it would be the fact of reliability, not evidence of reliability, that makes perceptual experiences a source of justification.[37] Another internalist option would be to say that perceptual experiences are a source of justification because it couldn't be otherwise: it's a necessary truth that certain perceptual experiences can justify certain perceptual beliefs. This would be an internalist answer to the J-question because perceptual experiences would be a source of justification whether or not they are reliable.[38]

    To conclude this section, let us briefly consider how justification is supposed to be transferred from basic to nonbasic beliefs. There are two options: the justificatory relation between basic and nonbasic beliefs could be deductive or non-deductive. If we take the relation to be deductive, each of one's nonbasic beliefs would have to be such that it can be deduced from one's basic beliefs. This seems excessively demanding. If we consider a random selection of typical beliefs we hold, it is not easy to see from which basic beliefs they could be deduced. Foundationalists, therefore, typically conceive of the link between the foundation and the superstructure in non-deductive terms. They would say that, for a basic belief, B, to justify a nonbasic belief, B*, it isn't necessary that B entails B*. Rather, it is sufficient that, given B, it is likely that B* is true.

    3.2 Coherentism

    Foundationalism says that knowledge and justification are structured like a building, consisting of a superstructure that rests upon a foundation. According to coherentism, this metaphor gets things wrong. Knowledge and justification are structured like a web where the strength of any given area depends on the strength of the surrounding areas. Coherentists, then, deny that there are any basic beliefs. As we saw in the previous section, there are two different ways of conceiving of basicality. Consequently, there are two corresponding ways of construing coherentism: as the denial of doxastic basicality or as the denial of epistemic basicality. Consider first coherentism as the denial of doxastic basicality:

    Doxastic Coherentism
    Every justified belief receives its justification from other beliefs in its epistemic neighborhood.

    Let us apply this thought to the hat example we considered in Section 3.1. Suppose again you notice someone's hat and believe

    (H) That hat is blue.

    Let's agree that (H) is justified. According to coherentism, (H) receives its justification from other beliefs in the epistemic vicinity of (H). They constitute your evidence or your reasons for taking (H) to be true. Which beliefs might make up this set of justification-conferring neighborhood beliefs?

    We will consider two approaches to answering this question. The first is known as inference to the best explanation. Such inferences generate what is called explanatory coherence.[39] According to this approach, we must suppose you form a belief about the way the hat appears to you in your perceptual experiences, and a second belief to the effect that your perceptual experience, the hat's looking blue to you, is best explained by the assumption that (H) is true. So the relevant set of beliefs is the following:

    (1) I am having a visual experience (E): the hat looks blue to me.
    (2) My having (E) is best explained by assuming that (H) is true.

    There are of course alternative explanations of why you have (E). Perhaps you are hallucinating that the hat is blue. Perhaps an evil demon makes the hat look blue to you when in fact it is red. Perhaps you are the sort of person to whom hats always look blue. An explanatory coherentist would say that, compared with these, the hat's actual blueness is a superior explanation. That's why your are justified in believing (H). Note that an explanatory coherentist can also explain the lack of justification. Suppose you remember that you just took a hallucinatory drug that makes things look blue to you. That would prevent you from being justified in believing (H). The explanatory coherentist can account for this by pointing out that, in the case we are considering now, the truth of (H) would not be the best explanation of why you are having experience (E). Rather, your having taken the hallucinatory drug would be an explanation at least as good as the assumption as (H) is true. That's why, according to the explanatory coherentist, in this variation of our original case you wouldn't be justified in be believing (H).

    One problem for explanatory coherentists is to make us understand, in nonepistemic terms, why the favored explanation is really better than the competing explanations. Let's use the evil demon hypothesis to illustrate that difficulty. What we need is an explanation of why you are having (E). According to the evil demon hypothesis, you are having (E) because the evil demon is tricking you. The explanatory coherentist would say that this is a bad explanation of why you are having (E). But why would it be bad? What we need to answer this question is a general and principled account of what makes one explanation better than another. Suppose we appeal to the fact that you are not justified in believing in the existence of evil demons. The general idea would be this: If there are two competing explanations, E1 and E2, and E1 consists of or includes a proposition that you are not justified in believing whereas E2 does not, then E2 is better than E1. The problem with this idea is that it puts the cart before the horse. Explanatory coherentism is supposed to make us understand where justification comes from. It doesn't do that if it accounts for the difference between better and worse explanations by making use of the difference between justified and unjustified belief. If explanatory coherentism were to proceed in this way, it would be a circular, and thus uninformative, account of justification. So the challenge to which explanatory coherentism must rise is to give an account, without using the concept of justification, of what makes one explanation better than another.

    Let us move on to the second way in which the coherentist approach might be carried out. Recall what a subject's justification for believing p is all about: possessing a link between the belief that p and p's truth. Suppose the subject knows that the origin of her belief that p is reliable. So she knows that beliefs coming from this source tend to be true. Such knowledge would give her an excellent link between the belief and its truth. So we might say that the neighborhood beliefs which confer justification on (H) are the following:

    (1) I am having a visual experience (E): the hat looks blue to me.
    (3) Experiences like (E) are reliable.

    Call coherentism of this kind reliability coherentism. If you believe (1) and (3), you are in possession of a good reason for thinking that the hat is indeed blue. So you are in possession of a good reason for thinking that the belief in question, (H), is true. That's why, according to reliability coherentism, you are justified in believing (H).

    Like explanatory coherentism, this view faces a circularity problem. If (H) receives its justification in part because you also believe (3), (3) itself must be justified. But where would your justification for (3) come from? One answer would be: from your memory of perceptual success in the past. You remember that your visual experiences have had a good track record. They have rarely led you astray. The problem is that you can't justifiably attribute a good track record to your perceptual faculties without using your perceptual faculties. So if reliability coherentism is going to work, it would have to be legitimate to use a faculty for the very purpose of establishing the reliability of that faculty itself. Some epistemologists think that would not be legitimate.[40]

    We have seen that explanatory coherentism and reliability coherentism each face its own distinctive circularity problem. Since both are versions of doxastic coherentism, they both face a further difficulty: Do people, under normal circumstances, really form beliefs like (1), (2), and (3)? It would seem they do not. It could be objected, therefore, that these two versions of coherentism make excessive intellectual demands of ordinary subjects who are unlikely to have the background beliefs that, according to these versions of coherentism, are needed for justification. This objection could be avoided by stripping coherentism of its doxastic element. The result would be the following version of coherentism, which results from rejecting EB (the epistemic conception of basicality):

    Dependence Coherentism
    Whenever one is justified in believing a proposition p1, one's justification for believing p1 depends on justification one has for believing some further propositions, p1, p2, … pn.

    An explanatory coherentist might say that, for you to be justified in believing (H), it's not necessary that you actually believe (1) and (2). However, it is necessary that you have justification for believing (1) and (2). It is your having justification for (1) and (2) that gives you justification for believing (H). A reliability coherentist might make an analogous point. She might say that, to be justified in believing (H), you need not believe anything about the reliability of your belief's origin. You must, however, have justification for believing that your belief's origin is reliable; that is, you must have justification for (1) and (3). Both versions of dependence coherentism, then, rest on the supposition that it is possible to have justification for a proposition without actually believing that proposition.

    Dependence coherentism is a significant departure from the way coherentism has typically been construed by its advocates. According to the typical construal of coherentism, the view says that a given belief is justified, the subject must have certain further beliefs that constitute reasons for the given belief. Dependence coherentism rejects this. According to it, justification need not come in the form of beliefs. It can come in the form of introspective and memorial evidence that gives a subject justification for beliefs about either reliability or explanatory coherence. In fact, dependence coherentism allows for the possibility that a belief is justified, not by receiving any of its justification from other beliefs, but solely by suitable perceptual experiences and memory content. Above, we called this view the "compromise position". The compromise position, then, may be characterized as follows: allows for doxastic basicality; does not allow for epistemic basicality; is inconsistent with doxastic coherentism; qualifies as a version of coherentism, namely dependence coherentism.

    Note that (iii) follows from (i), and (iv) from (ii). An uncompromising foundationalist would reject dependence coherentism. A foundationalist of that kind views a basic belief that p as a belief whose justification does not depend on having any justification for believing another proposition q. Foundationalism of this sort could be called independence foundationalism, since it asserts that a basic belief's justification is completely independent of having justification for any other beliefs. The logic of the conflict between foundationalism and coherentism seems to suggest that, ultimately, the conflict between the two views boils down to that between dependence coherentism and independence foundationalism.[41]

    Next, let us examine the reasons for and against in the debate over foundationalism and coherentism.

    3.3 Why Foundationalism?

    The main argument for foundationalism is called the regress argument. It's an argument from elimination. With regard to every justified belief, B1, the question arises of where B1's justification comes from. If B1 is not basic, it would have to come from another belief, B2. But B2 can justify B1 only if B2 is justified itself. If B2 is basic, the justificatory chain would end with B2. But if B2 is not basic, we need a further belief, B3. If B3 is not basic, we need a fourth belief, and so forth. Unless the ensuing regress terminates in a basic belief, we get two possibilities: the regress will either loop back to B1 or continue ad infinitum. According to the regress argument, both of these possibilities are unacceptable. Therefore, if there are justified beliefs, there must be basic beliefs.[42]

    This argument suffers from various weaknesses. First, we may wonder whether the alternatives to foundationalism are really unacceptable. In the recent literature on this subject, we actually find an elaborate defense of the position that infinitism is the correct solution to the regress problem.[43] Nor should circularity be dismissed too quickly. The issue is not whether a simple argument of the form p therefore p is acceptable. Of course it is not. Rather, the issue is ultimately whether, in the attempt to show that trust in our faculties is reasonable, we may make use of the input our faculties deliver. Whether such circularity is as unacceptable as a p-therefore-p inference is an open question. Moreover, the avoidance of circularity does not come cheap. Experiential foundationalists claim that perception is a source of justification. Hence they need to answer the J-question: Why is perception a source of justification? As we saw above, if we wish to answer this question without committing ourselves to the kind of circularity dependence coherentism involves, we must choose between externalism and an appeal to brute necessity. Neither choice is unproblematic.

    The second weakness of the regress argument is that its conclusion merely says this: If there are justified beliefs, there must be justified beliefs that do not receive their justification from other beliefs. Its conclusion does not say that, if there are justified beliefs, there must be beliefs whose justification is independent of any justification for further beliefs. So the regress argument, if it were sound, would merely show that there must be doxastic basicality. Dependence coherentism, however, allows for doxastic basicality. So the regress argument merely defends experiential foundationalism against doxastic coherentism. It does not tell us why we should prefer independence foundationalism to dependence coherentism.

    Experiential foundationalism can be supported by citing cases like the blue hat example. Such examples make it plausible to assume that perceptual experiences are a source of justification. But they do not arbitrate between dependence coherentism and independence foundationalism, since either one of these views appeals to perceptual experiences to explain why perceptual beliefs are justified.

    Finally, foundationalism can be supported by advancing objections to coherentism. One prominent objection is that coherentism somehow fails to ensure that a justified belief system is in contact with reality. This objection derives its force from the fact that fiction can be perfectly coherent. Why think, therefore, that a belief system's coherence is a reason for thinking that the belief in that system tend to be true? Coherentists could respond to this objection by saying that, if a belief system contains beliefs such as "Many of my beliefs have their origin in perceptual experiences" and "My perceptual experiences are reliable", it is reasonable for the subject to think that her belief system brings her into contact with external reality. This looks like an effective response to the no-contact-with-reality objection. Moreover, it is not easy to see why foundationalism itself should be better positioned than coherentism when contact with reality is the issue. What is meant by "ensuring" contact with reality? If foundationalists expect a logical guarantee of such contact, basic beliefs must be infallible. That would make contact with reality a rather expensive commodity. Given its price, foundationalists might want to lower their expectations. According to an alternative construal, we expect merely the likelihood of contact with reality. But if coherentists account for the importance of perception in one way or another, they can meet that expectation as well as foundationalists.

    Since coherentism can be construed in different ways, it is unlikely that there is one single objection that succeeds in refuting all possible versions of coherentism. Doxastic coherentism, however, seems particularly vulnerable to criticism coming from the foundationalist camp. One of these we considered already: It would seem that doxastic coherentism makes excessive intellectual demands on believers. When dealing with the mundane tasks of everyday life, we don't normally bother to form beliefs about the explanatory coherence of our beliefs or the reliability of our belief sources. According to a second objection, doxastic coherentism fails by being insensitive to the epistemic relevance of perceptual experiences. Foundationalists could argue as follows. Suppose Kim is observing a chameleon that rapidly changes its colors. A moment ago it was blue, now it's purple. Kim still believes it's blue. Her belief is now unjustified because she believes the chameleon is blue even though it looks purple to her. Then the chameleon changes its color back to blue. Now Kim's belief that the chameleon is blue is justified again because the chameleon once again looks blue to her. The point would be that what's responsible for the changing justificatory status of Kim's belief is solely the way the chameleon looks to her. Since doxastic coherentism does not attribute epistemic relevance to perceptual experiences by themselves, it cannot explain why Kim's belief is first justified, then unjustified, and eventually justified again.[44]

    3.4 Why Coherentism?

    Coherentism is typically defended by attacking foundationalism as a viable alternative. To argue against privilege foundationalism, coherentists pick an epistemic privilege they think is essential to foundationalism, and then argue that either no beliefs, or too few beliefs, enjoy such a privilege. Against experiential foundationalism, different objections have been advanced. One line of criticism is that perceptual experiences don't have propositional content. Therefore, the relation between a perceptual belief and the perceptual experience that gives rise to it can only be causal. Consider again, however, the hat example from above. When you see the hat and it looks blue to you, doesn't your visual experience — its looking blue to you — have the propositional content that the hat is blue? It would seem it does. If it does, there seems to be no reason to deny that your perceptual experience can play a justificatory role.[45]

    Another line of thought is that, if perceptual experiences have propositional content, they cannot stop the justificatory regress because they would then be in need of justification themselves. That, however, appears to be a strange thought. In our actual epistemic practice, we never demand of others to justify the way things appear to them in their perceptual experiences. Indeed, such a demand would seem absurd. Suppose I ask you: "Why do you think that the hat is blue?" You answer: "Because it looks blue to me." There are sensible further questions I might ask at that point. For instance, I might ask: "Why do you think its looking blue to you gives you a reason for thinking it is blue?" Or I might ask: "Couldn't you be mistaken in believing it looks blue to you?" The latter question might irritate you, but it would not be illegitimate. After all, we can reasonably doubt that introspective beliefs about how things appear to us are infallible. But now suppose I ask you: "Why do you suppose the perceptual experience in which the hat looks blue to you is justified?" In response to that question, you should accuse me of misusing the word ‘justification’. I might as well ask you what it is that justifies your headache when you have one, or what justifies the itch in your nose when you have one. The latter questions, you should reply, would be as absurd as my request for stating a justifying reason for your perceptual experience.[46]

    Experiential foundationalism, then, is not easily dislodged. On what grounds could coherentists object to it? To raise problems for experiential foundationalism, coherentists could press the J-question: Why are perceptual experiences a source of justification? If foundationalists answer the J-question appealing to evidence that warrants the attribution of reliability to perceptual experiences, experiential foundationalism morphs into dependence coherentism, or, as we have called it, the compromise position. To avoid this outcome, foundationalists would have to give an alternative answer. One way of doing this would be to advocate independence foundationalism, which adopts the epistemic conception of basicality and views it as a matter of brute necessity that perception is a source of justification. So ultimately, the task of defending coherentism might come down to the task of showing that dependence coherentism as a compromise position is preferable to independence foundationalism. To back up such a preference, it might be argued that dependence coherentism gives us a more satisfying answer to the J-question than independence foundationalism does. But is that really so?

    Suppose we ask "Why is the sum of two and two four?" Isn't the answer "It couldn't be any other way" perfectly satisfactory? So sometimes, at least, a request for explaining the truth of p is met in a satisfying way by pointing out that p is necessarily true. Why, then, should we not be satisfied when independence foundationalists answer the J-question by saying that perceptual experiences are necessarily a source of justification? To find out whether we should be satisfied, we might employ thought experiments. We might try to describe a possible world in which, to use our example again, someone sees an object that looks blue to her, but the object's looking blue to her does not give her any justification at all for believing that the object is actually blue. If we can conceive of such a possible world, then we have reason to think that independence foundationalists are mistaken when they say that perceptual experience is necessarily a source of justification.

    Last edited by orthodoxymoron on Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:25 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: The United States of the Solar System: A.D. 2133 (Book One)

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Mon Mar 30, 2015 6:21 pm

    Epistemology Continued.

    4. Sources of Knowledge and Justification

    Beliefs arise in people for a wide variety of causes. Among them, we must list psychological factors such as desires, emotional needs, prejudice, and biases of various kinds. Obviously, when beliefs originate in sources like these, they don't qualify as knowledge even if true. For true beliefs to count as knowledge, it is necessary that they originate in sources we have good reason to consider reliable. These are perception, introspection, memory, reason, and testimony. Let us briefly consider each of these.

    4.1 Perception

    Our perceptual faculties are our five senses: sight, touch, hearing, smelling, and tasting. We must distinguish between an experience that can be classified as perceiving that p (for example, seeing that there is coffee in the cup and tasting that it is sweet), which entails that p is true, and a perceptual experience in which it seems to us as though p, but where p might be false. Let us refer to this latter kind of experience as perceptual seemings. The reason for making this distinction lies in the fact that perceptual experience is fallible. The world is not always as it appears to us in our perceptual experiences. We need, therefore, a way of referring to perceptual experiences in which p seems to be the case that allows for the possibility of p being false. That's the role assigned to perceptual seemings. So some perceptual seemings that p are cases of perceiving that p, others are not. When it looks to you as though there is a cup of coffee on the table and in fact there is, the two states coincide. If, however, you hallucinate that there is a cup on the table, you have perceptual seeming that p without perceiving that p.

    One family of epistemological issues about perception arises when we concern ourselves with the psychological nature of the perceptual processes through which we acquire knowledge of external objects. According to direct realism, we can acquire such knowledge because we can directly perceive such objects. For example, when you see a tomato on the table, what you perceive is the tomato itself. According to indirect realism, we acquire knowledge of external objects by virtue of perceiving something else, namely appearances or sense-data. An indirect realist would say that, when you see and thus know that there is a tomato on the table, what you really see is not the tomato itself but a tomato-like sense-datum or some such entity.

    Direct and indirect realists hold different views about the structure of perceptual knowledge. Indirect realists would say that we acquire perceptual knowledge of external objects by virtue of perceiving sense data that represent external objects. Sense data, a species of mental states, enjoy a special status: we know directly what they are like. So indirect realists think that, when perceptual knowledge is foundational, it is knowledge of sense data and other mental states. Knowledge of external objects is indirect: derived from our knowledge of sense data. The basic idea is that we have indirect knowledge of the external world because we can have foundational knowledge of our own mind. Direct realists can be more liberal about the foundation of our knowledge of external objects. Since they hold that perceptual experiences get you in direct contact with external objects, they can say that such experiences can give you foundational knowledge of external objects.

    We take our perceptual faculties to be reliable. But how can we know that they are reliable? For externalists, this might not be much of a challenge. If the use of reliable faculties is sufficient for knowledge, and if by using reliable faculties we acquire the belief that our faculties are reliable, then we come to know that our faculties are reliable. But even externalists might wonder how they can, via argument, show that our perceptual faculties are reliable. The problem is this. It would seem the only way of acquiring knowledge about the reliability of our perceptual faculties is through memory, through remembering whether they served us well in the past. But should I trust my memory, and should I think that the episodes of perceptual success that I seem to recall were in fact episodes of perceptual success? If I am entitled to answer these questions with ‘yes', then I need to have, to begin with, reason to view my memory and my perceptual experiences as reliable. It would seem, therefore, that there is no non-circular way of arguing for the reliability of one's perceptual faculties.[47]

    4.2 Introspection

    Introspection is the capacity to inspect the, metaphorically speaking, "inside" of one's mind. Through introspection, one knows what mental states one is in: whether one is thirsty, tired, excited, or depressed. Compared with perception, introspection appears to have a special status. It is easy to see how a perceptual seeming can go wrong: what looks like a cup of coffee on the table might be just be a clever hologram that's visually indistinguishable from an actual cup of coffee. But could it be possible that it introspectively seems to me that I have a headache when in fact I do not? It is not easy to see how it could be. Thus we come to think that introspection has a special status. Compared with perception, introspection seems to be privileged by virtue of being less error prone. How can we account for the special status of introspection?

    First, it could be argued that, when it comes to introspection, there is no difference between appearance and reality; therefore, introspective seemings are necessarily successful introspections. According to this approach, introspection is infallible. Alternatively, one could view introspection as a source of certainty. Here the idea is that an introspective experience of p eliminates all possible doubt as to whether p is true. Finally, one could attempt to explain the specialness of introspection by examining the way we respond to first-person reports: typically, we attribute a special authority to such reports. According to this approach, introspection is incorrigible. Others are not, or at least not typically, in a position to correct first-person reports of one's own mental states.

    Introspection reveals how the world appears to us in our perceptual experiences. For that reason, introspection has been of special interest to foundationalists. Perception is not immune to error. If certainty consists in the absence of all possible doubt, perception fails to yield certainty. Hence beliefs based on perceptual experiences cannot be foundational. Introspection, however, might deliver what we need to find a firm foundation for our beliefs about external objects: at best outright immunity to error or all possible doubt, or perhaps more modestly, an epistemic kind of directness that cannot be found in perception.

    Is it really true, however, that, compared with perception, introspection is in some way special? Critics of foundationalism have argued that introspection is certainly not infallible. Might one not confuse an unpleasant itch for a pain? Might I not think that the shape before me appears circular to me when in fact it appears slightly elliptical to me? If it is indeed possible for introspection to mislead, then it is hard to see why introspection should eliminate all possible doubt. Yet it isn't easy to see either how, if one clearly and distinctly feels a throbbing headache, one could be mistaken about that. Introspection, then, turns out to be a mysterious faculty. On the one hand, it does not seem to be in general an infallible faculty; on the other hand, when looking at appropriately described specific cases, error does seem impossible.[48]

    4.3 Memory

    Memory is the capacity to retain knowledge acquired in the past. What one remembers, though, need not be a past event. It may be a present fact, such as one's telephone number, or a future event, such as the date of the next elections. Memory is, of course, fallible. Not every instance of taking oneself to remember that p is an instance of actually remembering that p. We should distinguish, therefore, between remembering that p (which entails the truth of p) and seeming to remember that p (which does not entail the truth of p).

    One issue about memory concerns the question of what distinguishes memorial seemings from perceptual seemings or mere imagination. Some philosophers have thought that having an image in one's mind is essential to memory, but that would appear to be mistaken. When one remembers one's telephone number, one is unlikely to have an image of one's number in one's mind. The distinctively epistemological questions about memory are these: First, what makes memorial seemings a source of justification? Is it a necessary truth that, if one has a memorial seeming that p, one has thereby prima facie justification for p? Or is memory a source of justification only if, as coherentists might say, one has reason to think that one's memory is reliable? Or is memory a source of justification only if, as externalists would say, it is in fact reliable? Second, how can we respond to skepticism about knowledge of the past? Memorial seemings of the past do not guarantee that the past is what we take it to be. We think that we are a bit older than just five minutes, but it is logically possible that the world sprang into existence just five minutes ago, complete with our dispositions to have memorial seemings of a more distant past and items such as apparent fossils that suggest a past going back millions of years. Our seeming to remember that the world is older than a mere five minutes does not entail, therefore, that it really is. Why, then, should we think that memory is a source of knowledge about the past?[49]

    4.4 Reason

    Some beliefs would appear to be justified solely by the use of reason. Justification of that kind is said to be a priori: prior to any kind of experience. A standard way of defining a priori justification goes as follows:

    A Priori Justification
    S is justified a priori in believing that p if and only if S's justification for believing that p does not depend on any experience.

    Beliefs that are true and justified in this way (and not somehow "gettiered") would count as instances of a priori knowledge.[50]

    What exactly counts as experience? If by ‘experience’ we mean just perceptual experiences, justification deriving from introspective or memorial experiences would count as a priori. For example, I could then know a priori that I'm thirsty, or what I ate for breakfast this morning. While the term ‘a priori’ is sometimes used in this way, the strict use of the term restricts a priori justification to justification derived solely from the use of reason. According to this usage, the word ‘experiences' in the definition above includes perceptual, introspective, and memorial experiences alike. On this narrower understanding, paradigm examples of what I can know on the basis of a priori justification are conceptual truths (such as "All bachelors are unmarried"), and truths of mathematics, geometry and logic.

    Justification and knowledge that is not a priori is called ‘a posteriori’ or ‘empirical’. For example, in the narrow sense of ‘a priori’, whether I'm thirsty or not is something I know empirically (on the basis of introspective experiences), whereas I know a priori that 12 divided by 3 is 4.

    Several important issues arise about a priori knowledge. First, does it exist at all? Skeptics about apriority deny its existence. They don't mean to say that we have no knowledge of mathematics, geometry, logic, and conceptual truths. Rather, what they claim is that all such knowledge is empirical.

    Second, if a priori justification is possible, exactly how does it come about? What makes a belief such as "All bachelors are unmarried" justified solely on the basis of reason? Is it an unmediated grasp of the truth of this proposition? Or does it consist of grasping that the proposition is necessarily true? Or is it the purely intellectual experience of "seeing" (with they "eye of reason") or "intuiting" that this proposition is true (or necessarily true)? Or is it, as externalists would suggest, the reliability of the cognitive process by which we come to recognize the truth of such a proposition?

    Third, if a priori knowledge exists, what is its extent? Empiricists have argued that a priori knowledge is limited to the realm of the analytic, consisting of propositions of a somehow inferior status because they are not really "about the world". Propositions of a superior status, which convey genuine information about world, are labeled synthetic. a priori knowledge of synthetic propositions, empiricists would say, is not possible. Rationalists deny this. They would say that a proposition such as "If a ball is green all over, then it doesn't have black spots" is synthetic and knowable a priori.

    A fourth question about the nature of a priori knowledge concerns the distinction between necessary and contingent truths. The received view is that whatever is known a priori is necessarily true, but there are epistemologists who disagree with that.[51]

    4.5 Testimony

    Testimony differs from the sources we considered above because it isn't distinguished by having its own cognitive faculty. Rather, to acquire knowledge of p through testimony is to come to know that p on the basis of someone's saying that p. "Saying that p" must be understood broadly, as including ordinary utterances in daily life, postings by bloggers on their web-logs, articles by journalists, delivery of information on television, radio, tapes, books, and other media. So, when you ask the person next to you what time it is, and she tells you, and you thereby come to know what time it is, that's an example of coming to know something on the basis of testimony. And when you learn by reading the Washington Post that the terrorist attack in Sharm el-Sheikh of July 22, 2005 killed at least 88 people, that, too, is an example of acquiring knowledge on the basis of testimony.

    The epistemological puzzle testimony raises is this: Why is testimony a source of knowledge? An externalist might say that testimony is a source of knowledge if and only if it comes from a reliable source. But here, even more so than in the case of our faculties, internalists will not find that answer satisfactory. Suppose you hear someone saying ‘p’. Suppose further that person is in fact utterly reliable with regard to the question of whether p is the case or not. Finally, suppose you have no evidential clue whatever as to that person's reliability. Wouldn't it be plausible to conclude that, since that person's reliability is unknown to you, that person's saying ‘p’ does not put you in a position to know that p? But if the reliability of a testimonial source is not sufficient for making it a source of knowledge, what else is needed? Thomas Reid suggested that, by our very nature, we accept testimonial sources as reliable and tend to attribute credibility to them unless we encounter special contrary reasons. But that's merely a statement of the attitude we in fact take toward testimony. What is it that makes that attitude reasonable? It could be argued that, in one's own personal experiences with testimonial sources, one has accumulated a long track record that can be taken as a sign of reliability. However, when we think of the sheer breadth of the knowledge we derive from testimony, one wonders whether one's personal experiences constitute an evidence base rich enough to justify the attribution of reliability to the totality of the testimonial sources one tends to trust. An alternative to the track record approach would be to declare it a necessary truth that trust in testimonial sources is justified. This suggestion, alas, encounters the same difficulty as the externalist approach to testimony: it does not seem we can acquire knowledge from sources the reliability of which is utterly unknown to us.[52]

    5. The Limits of Knowledge and Justification

    5.1 The Case for Skepticism

    According to skeptics, the limits of what you know are narrower than you would like to think. There are many things that you think you know but actually fail to know. For example, you think you know that you have hands, but in fact you don't. How can the skeptics expect you to take such a strange conclusion seriously? Here's how. As a first step, the skeptics will focus on another proposition, about which you are likely to agree that you don't know it. As a second step, they will get you to agree that, since you don't know that second proposition, you don't know the first one either: the proposition that you have hands.

    When the skeptics get their argument started with some other proposition about which you are likely to agree you don't know it, what do they have in mind? They direct your attention to what is called a skeptical hypothesis. According to a skeptical hypothesis, things are radically different from what you take them to be. Here are several examples:
    •I'm lying in my bed dreaming.
    •I'm deceived by an evil demon.
    •I'm a mere brain-in-a-vat (a BIV).
    •I'm in the matrix world.

    What the skeptics will point out, and what they think you will easily agree with, is this: For any particular hypothesis on the list, you don't know that it is false. This works better for some than for others. It works really well for the BIV hypothesis, which we discussed already in section 2.2. The idea is that, if you are a BIV, you are reduced to a mere brain which is stimulated in such a way that the delusion of a normal life results. So the experiences you have as a BIV and the experiences you have as a normal person are perfectly alike, indistinguishable, so to speak, "from the inside." It doesn't look to you as though you are a BIV. After all, you can see that you have a body, and you can freely move about in your environment. The problem is that it looks that way to a BIV, too. As a result, the evidence you have as a normal person and the evidence you have as a BIV do not relevantly differ. Consequently, your evidence can't settle the question of whether or not you are a BIV. Based on this thought, the skeptics claim you don't know that you are not a BIV. That's the first step of the case for skepticism.

    Let us now focus on the second step. The basic thought is that, if you don't know you're not a BIV, you don't know you have hands. That thought is extremely plausible. After all, if you are a BIV, you don't have any hands. So if you can't distinguish between being and not being a BIV, you can't distinguish either between having and not having hands. But if you can't distinguish between having and not having hands, surely you don't know that you have hands. Putting the two steps of the skeptic's reasoning together, we get the following argument:

    The BIV Argument

    (1) I don't know that I'm not a BIV.

    (2) If I don't know that I'm not a BIV, then I don't know that I have hands.


    (3) I don't know that I have hands.

    As we have just seen, (1) and (2) are very plausible premises. It would seem, therefore, that the BIV Argument is sound. If it is, we must conclude we don't know we have hands. But surely that conclusion can't be right. So we are confronted with a difficult challenge: On what grounds can we reject the conclusion of this seemingly sound argument?[53]

    5.2 Skepticism and Closure

    The second premise is closely connected to the principle that knowledge is closed under known entailment, for short, the closure principle. Setting complications aside, it says the following:

    The Closure Principle
    If I know that p, and I know that p entails q, then I know that q.[54]

    This principle is exceedingly plausible. Here's an example to illustrate it. Suppose you had exactly two beers. Your having had exactly two beers entails that you had less than three beers. If you know both of these things, then you know that you had less than three beers. This much, certainly, seems beyond dispute.

    How is the closure principle related to the skeptical argument? The connection can be seen when you replace ‘p’ and ‘q’ with the relevant propositions:

    p: I have hands.
    q: I'm not a BIV.

    Making these replacements, we get the following application of the closure principle to the BIV argument:

    BIV Closure
    If I know that I have hands, and I know that my having hands entails my not being a BIV, then I know that I'm not a BIV.

    According to the skeptical argument, you can't know that you are not a BIV. So the consequent of BIV closure is false. Therefore, the antecedent of BIV closure must be false. The antecedent of BIV closure is a conjunction. The second conjunct can't be argued with. If you understand what is meant by the BIV hypothesis, then you know that you don't have hands if you are a BIV. If follows that the antecedent of BIV Closure is false because its first conjunct is false. So starting out with the closure principle, we arrive at the skeptical conclusion: You don't know that you have hands.[55]

    5.3 Relevant Alternatives and Closure Denial

    Next, we will examine various responses to the BIV argument. According to the first, we should distinguish between relevant and irrelevant alternatives. An alternative to a state of affairs or proposition p is any state of affairs or proposition that is incompatible with p. Your having hands and your being a BIV are alternatives: if the former is true, the latter is false, and vice versa. According to the thought that motivates the second premise of the BIV argument, you know that you have hands only if you can discriminate between your actually having hands and the alternative of being a (handless) BIV. But you can't discriminate between these two states of affairs. That's why you don't know that you have hands. In response to such reasoning, a relevant alternatives theorist would say that your inability to discriminate between these two states of affairs is not an obstacle to your knowing that you have hands because your being a BIV is not a relevant alternative to your having hands. What would be a relevant alternative? This, for example: your arms ending in stumps rather than hands, or your having hooks instead of hands, or your having prosthetic hands. But these alternatives don't prevent you from knowing that you have hands — not because they are irrelevant, but rather because you can discriminate between these alternatives and your having hands. The relevant alternative theorist holds, therefore, that you do know that you have hands.

    The BIV argument is valid. Relevant alternative theorists must therefore deny one of its premises. Since they agree that you don't know that your are not a BIV, so they accept the first premise. Consequently, they reject the second premise. You know that you have hands even though you don't know that you are not a BIV. This means, in effect, that relevant alternative theorists deny the closure principle. Let's consider the details of this point. Relevant alternative theorists say:
    i.You know you have hands.
    ii.You know that your having hands entails your not being a BIV.
    iii.You don't know that you are not a BIV.

    Relevant alternative theorists, then, assert the antecedent and deny the consequent of BIV closure, as stated in the previous section. They are, therefore, committed to the claim that the closure principle is false.[56]

    There are two chief problems for this approach. The first is that denouncing the BIV alternative as irrelevant is ad hoc unless it is supplemented with a principled account of what makes one alternative relevant and another irrelevant. The second is that the closure principle enjoys a high degree of intrinsic plausibility. Denying it generates so-called abominable conjunctions. Here is one:

    An Abominable Conjunction
    I know that I have hands but I do not know that I am not a (handless) BIV.

    Many epistemologists would agree that this conjunction is indeed abominable because it blatantly violates the basic and extremely plausible intuition that you can't know you have hands without knowing that you are not a BIV.[57]

    5.4 The Moorean Response

    Next, let us consider a response to the BIV argument according to which it's not the second but the first premise that must be rejected. G. E. Moore has pointed out that an argument succeeds only to the extent that its premises are more plausible than the conclusion. So if we encounter an argument whose conclusion we don't like, and notice that the denial of the conclusion is actually quite plausible, in fact more plausible than the assertion of the premises, then we can turn the argument on its head. According to this approach, we can respond to the BIV argument as follows:

    Counter BIV

    (1) I know that I have hands.

    (2) If I don't know that I'm not a BIV, then I don't know that I have hands.


    (3) I know that I am not a BIV.

    Unless we are skeptics or opponents of closure, we would have to concede that this argument is sound. It is valid, and its premises are true. Yet few philosophers would agree that Counter BIV amounts to a satisfying response to the BIV argument. What needs to be accomplished is more than a mere assertion of (3), based on knowledge of one's hands. What we need to have explained to us is how one can know that one is not a BIV. The observation that the premises of the BIV argument are less plausible than the denial of its conclusion doesn't help us understand how such knowledge is possible. That's why the Moorean response falls short of being a successful rebuttal of the skeptical argument.[58]

    5.5 The Contextualist Response

    We have looked at two responses to the BIV argument. The relevant alternatives response denies the second premise. Because of the plausibility of the second premise, this might strike us as a desperation move. The Moorean response denies the first premise. The problem with that move is this: Unless we are provided with a convincing explanation of how one can know that one isn't a BIV, it's not more than just digging in one's non-skeptical heels. According to contextualism, it's possible to articulate a more satisfying reply to the BIV argument. The trick is to focus on how we actually use the word ‘know’. If we do that, we'll notice that our use of that word varies from one situation — from one context — to another. What so varies is what we mean by that word.

    Three questions arise immediately. First, what are these various meanings of the word ‘know’? Second, why and how does what we mean by ‘know’ change from one context to another? Third, how does the context-sensitivity of ‘know’ help us respond to the BIV argument? Let us consider each question in turn.

    First, when what we mean by ‘know’ changes from one context to another, what changes is the standards that we think must be met if someone is to have knowledge of something. For the sake of keeping things simple, let's distinguish between just two sets of standards: very high and not so high. Let's refer to them as ‘high’ and ‘low’ standards. In some contexts, when we use the word ‘know’, we have low standards of knowledge in mind: standards that are easy to meet. We will then ascribe knowledge liberally. In other contexts, our use of the word ‘know’ is guided by more demanding high standards. Meeting these is very difficult. In such contexts, we will ascribe knowledge only reluctantly. Second, what effects such changes in what we mean by ‘know’? According to some contextualists, it is the salience of error-possibilities. In an ordinary, low-standard context, you don't worry about being a BIV. It's not an error possibility you ignore. As a result, your standards of knowledge remain low. In such a context, all it takes for you to know you have hands is that you can discriminate between having hands and having stumps, hooks, or prosthetic hands. That's a condition you easily meet. Hence you will not be reluctant at all to ascribe to yourself knowledge of your hands. But suppose you start thinking about the problem of skepticism. You're wondering how you could know that you are not a BIV. You come to note that it's very difficult to know that one isn't a BIV. The BIV alternative is now salient to you. This makes your standards of knowledge rise. Bearing in mind that BIVs don't have hands, you now think that, for you to know that you have hands, you must be able to eliminate the error possibility of being a BIV. Since you realize you can't eliminate that possibility, you are no longer willing to ascribe to yourself knowledge of your hands.

    Third, how does all of that help us find a reply to the BIV argument? Contextualists view the BIV argument as presenting us with a paradox. We think it's crazy to deny knowledge of our hands. At the same time, we don't think one can know that one isn't a BIV. How can the conflict between these thoughts be resolved? Contextualists propose to resolve it by saying this: In low standard contexts (when skeptical hypotheses are not salient), the first premise and the conclusion of the BIV argument are both false. In such contexts, a speaker who says "You don't know that you have hands" or "You don't know that you are not a BIV" is mistaken. The speaker is mistaken because we do in fact meet low standards of knowledge. So relative to what we mean by ‘know’ in such contexts, we know that we have hands and that we are not BIVs. However, in high standard contexts (when an error possibility such as being a BIV is salient), the first premise and the conclusion of the BIV argument are both true. Now, when speakers say "You don't know that you have hands" or "You don't know that you are not a BIV", they are correct, for with regard to having hands and being or not being a BIV, our epistemic position is not strong enough for us to meet high standards of knowledge. Therefore, relative to what we mean by ‘know’ when we are confronted with a salient error possibility such as being a BIV, we know neither that we have hands nor that we are not BIVs.

    Contextualism is intended as a closure preserving response to skepticism. The closure principle is true even relative to "knowledge" attributions that are subject to high standards. Hence, according to contextualism, things fall into place as follows:
    i.we know the closure principle whether the meaning of ‘know’ is fixed by high or low standards;
    ii.when the meaning of ‘know’ is fixed by low standards, we know both that we have hands and that we are not BIVs;
    iii.when the meaning of ‘know’ is fixed by high standards, we know neither that we have hands nor that we are not BIVs.

    As a result, closure is preserved. Contextualism is also meant to be an improvement over the Moorean response. According to that response, the first premise of the BIV argument is false. This conflicts with our intuition that we cannot know that we are not BIVs. Contextualism resolves this conflict by saying that the first premise is false only in low standards contexts. In high standards contexts, that premise is true.

    Naturally, contextualism has elicited many objections. According to one, what's wrong with contextualism is that it replaces our interest in knowledge itself with focus on the word ‘know’. This objection (let us call it the replacement objection) is based on a misunderstanding of contextualism. In the next section, we will see why.

    According to another objection, contextualism overemphasizes the importance of the context sensitivity of the word ‘know’. Let us distinguish between two elements of contextualism. The first is semantic ascent. If we endorse the semantic ascent element, we think that a satisfactory response to skepticism in general and the BIV argument in particular requires of us to distinguish between a high-standards and a low-standards meaning of "knowledge." The semantic ascent thesis remains squarely within the limits of traditional epistemology. Indeed, in any area of philosophy, it's always going to be a good idea to remain aware of the possibility that the problems in which one finds oneself entangled might, at least to some extent, be due to subtle (and sometimes not so subtle) shifts in meaning. The other element of contextualism could be called strict context-sensitivity, as opposed to loose context sensitivity. Consider the thesis that the meaning of the word ‘know’ varies with context. There is an innocuous interpretation of this thesis: people do not always mean the same when they use the word ‘know’. Sometimes they mean one thing by ‘know’, at other times they mean another thing by ‘know’. This is loose context sensitivity. It's hard to see on what grounds such a weak claim might be disputed. Contextualists, however, make a stronger claim. They assert that what one means by ‘know’ is determined, in a way that's very difficult to resist, by the salience or non-salience of error possibilities. That's strict context sensitivity. If we endorse strict context sensitivity, there's something important that drops out: how one intends to use the word ‘know’. An alternative semantics of the word ‘know’ will de-emphasize the importance of the salience or non-salience of error possibilities, and ascribe a much higher degree of semantic independence to the subjects who use the word ‘know’. Next, let's consider a response to the BIV argument that retains the semantic ascent element of contextualism, but rejects strong context sensitivity.[59]

    5.6 The Ambiguity Response

    What proposition a "knowledge"-attributing sentence expresses depends on what concept of knowledge the person who uses that sentence (in spoken or written form) has in mind when using the word ‘know’. Let's distinguish between two concepts: a high-standards and a low-standards concept. There are various ways of cashing out this distinction. We will understand it in terms of fallible and infallible evidence. High-standards or infallible knowledge of p requires p-entailing evidence. Low-standards of fallible knowledge of p requires adequate evidence for p, where evidence for p can be adequate without entailing p.

    According to the ambiguity response, a "knowledge"-attributing sentence is ambiguous unless we can tell whether the word ‘know’, as it occurs in that sentence, refers to fallible or infallible knowledge. Suppose we think that fallible knowledge of one's hands is possible, whereas infallible knowledge of one's hands is not. Suppose further we hear Jane say ‘Carl knows that he has hands.’ Finally, suppose we have no idea whether Jane uses the word ‘know’ in the fallible or infallible sense. In that case, we would have to say that Jane's utterance is true if interpreted as a claim about fallible knowledge, but false if interpreted as a claim about infallible knowledge. Now, with regard to the BIV argument, we are in a similar situation. We have not been instructed on whether the word ‘know’ in its premises and its conclusion is to be understood in the fallible or infallible sense. Consequently, when assessing the merits of the BIV argument, we must consider three versions of it:

    The Mixed Version
    In the premises, the word ‘know’ refers to infallible knowledge, whereas in the conclusion, it refers to fallible knowledge.
    The High-Standards Version
    The word ‘know’ refers to infallible knowledge in both the premises and the conclusion.

    The Low-Standards Version
    The word ‘know’ refers to fallible knowledge in both the premises and the conclusion.

    Distinguishing between these three versions, proponents of the ambiguity response can reply to the BIV argument as follows:
    i.The mixed version is an instance of equivocation and thus invalid.
    ii.The high-standards version is sound but uninteresting. Its conclusion asserts that we don't have infallible knowledge of our hands. That's nothing to worry about. What really matters to us is whether we have fallible knowledge of our hands. But that question simply isn't addressed by the high-standards version.
    iii.The low-standards version is interesting but unsound. Its conclusion — we do not even have fallible knowledge of our hands — is indeed disturbing. If this conclusion were true, then we would be in a radical way mistaken about what we think we know. However, we don't have to accept this conclusion because the argument's first premise is false. According to that premise, one cannot even have fallible knowledge of one's not being a BIV. That's false. There is, after all, good evidence for thinking that one's is not a BIV. This evidence is good enough for knowing that one isn't a BIV even though it does not entail that one isn't a BIV.

    Suppose an opponent of the ambiguity response were to employ the replacement objection, claiming that the response focuses on the word ‘know’ instead of knowledge itself. This objection would be misguided. The ambiguity response mentions the word ‘know’ only at the initial stage, and then immediately shifts its focus to non-linguistic entities such as concepts and propositions. So advocates of the ambiguity response would point out that, when we distinguish between versions (i) through (iii), we are concerned with which propositions the premises and the conclusion of the BIV argument express, and thus are ultimately concerned with knowledge itself. The upshot of their reply, then, is to distinguish between the following two propositions:

    (Kif) I knowif that I have hands.

    (Kf) I knowf that I have hands.

    where the term ‘knowif’ in (Kif) refers to infallible knowledge, whereas the term ‘knowf’ in Kf refers to fallible knowledge. Both of these proposition are about knowledge itself, or, more precisely, about different kinds of knowledge. The ambiguity response, therefore, is not vulnerable to the replacement objection. Neither is contextualism. For according to contextualism, what context determines is precisely which proposition the conclusion of the BIV argument expresses: (Kif) or (Kf).[60] Hence contextualism, is, notwithstanding initial appearance, just as much about knowledge itself as is the ambiguity response.

    How, then, do contextualism and the ambiguity response differ? Both share the semantic ascent element. A satisfactory response to skepticism requires of us to distinguish between various meanings of the word ‘know’. Beyond that, they proceed in different directions. Whereas according to contextualism, whether we reject or endorse the conclusion of the BIV argument is a function of which context we are in, the ambiguity response makes context irrelevant. It makes context irrelevant because, no matter which context we are in, we can always disambiguate. So, when we are thinking about or discussing the BIV argument and are thus confronted with a salient error possibility, we need not adopt a high-standards meaning of ‘know’. Rather, we can respond to the argument by saying that, if it is about infallible knowledge its conclusion is true but unremarkable, whereas if it is about fallible knowledge its conclusion is remarkable but false.[61]

    5.6 Knowing One Isn't a BIV

    Contextualism and the ambiguity response, as discussed in the previous two sections, leave out one important detail. Contextualists say that, relative to the standards of knowledge operational in low-standards contexts, one can know that one isn't a BIV. Ambiguity theorists say that, in the fallibilist sense of ‘know’, one can know that one isn't a BIV. It might be objected that this is a bit optimistic. Let us look at the issue from the evidentialist point of view. An evidentialist who employs the ambiguity response would have to say that one's evidence for thinking one isn't a BIV is good enough for knowledge. But when the BIV hypothesis was introduced, we noted that part of the hypothesis is the following point: whehter you are a normal person or a BIV makes no difference with regard to your evidence: it's the same in either case. Call this the identical evidence thesis. This thesis is simply part of the hypothesis in question and must therefore be granted. How, then, could one possibly know, even in the fallibilist sense of ‘know’, that one isn't a BIV?

    It would be a mistake to think the identical evidence thesis entails that, as a normal person, one doesn't have good evidence for thinking that one isn't a BIV. Nor does it entail that, as a BIV, one doesn't have good evidence for thinking that one isn't a BIV. What it entails is merely this: Whatever evidence one has, as a normal person regarding the question of whether one is a BIV, one would have that very same evidence if one were a BIV. This leaves open the possibility that in either case, as a BIV or as a normal person, one has excellent evidence for thinking that one is not a BIV.

    What might evidence for thinking that one isn't a BIV consist of? For reasons of space, we will merely hint, by way of analogy, at how this question might be answered. Note that the BIV hypothesis entails various rather problematic propositions:

    (a) At least one BIV exists.

    (b) The know-how needed for envatting people exists.

    (c) The technology needed for envatting people exists.


    (d) At least one spaceship exists that can be used for traveling to another galaxy and coming back within a couple of months.

    (e) The know-how needed for building such a spaceship exists.

    (f) The technology needed for building such a spaceship exists.

    According to the evidentialist anti-skepticism under consideration here, you know, on the basis of your knowledge of how the world works, that (d)–(f) are all false.[62] In the very least, you can come to know this by consulting suitable experts. But what about (a) through (c)? Well, if you know or can come to know that (d)–(f) are all false, isn't it plausible to claim that you also know or can come to know that (a)–(c) are all false? If a skeptic were to argue that you know that (d)–(f) are all false, while you do not know that any proposition in (a)–(c) is false, that skeptic would incur the burden of having to dislodge the analogy, of having to explain why, whereas knowledge that (d)–(f) are all false is easily obtainable, knowledge of the falsehood of each (a)–(c) is beyond our reach. This might not be easily accomplished.

    Suppose you do know that (a)–(c) are all false. Then you know that any proposition that entails (a)–(c) is false. The BIV hypothesis entails (a)–(c). Hence you know that the BIV hypothesis, is false. But if you know that you are not a BIV, then premise (1) of the BIV argument is false.[63]

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    Re: The United States of the Solar System: A.D. 2133 (Book One)

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Mon Mar 30, 2015 6:24 pm

    Epistemology Continued.

    6. Additional Issues

    6.1 Virtue Epistemology

    Epistemology, as commonly practiced, focuses on the subject's beliefs. Are they justified? Are they instances of knowledge? When it comes to assessing how the subject herself is doing with regard to the pursuit of truth and the seeking of knowledge, this assessment is carried out by looking at the epistemic quality of her beliefs. According to virtue epistemology, the order of analysis ought to be reversed. We need to begin with the subject herself and assess her epistemic virtues and vices: her "good" and her "bad" ways of forming beliefs. Careful and attentive reasoning would be an example of an epistemic virtue; jumping to conclusions would be an example of an epistemic vice. It is only after we have determined which ways of forming beliefs count as epistemic virtues that we can, as a second step, determine the epistemic quality of particular beliefs. Its proponents construe virtue epistemology more or less stringently. According to pure virtue epistemology, epistemic virtues and vices are sui generis. They cannot be analyzed in terms of more fundamental epistemic or nonepistemic concepts. Proponents of a less stringent approach disagree with this; they would say that epistemic virtues and vices can fruitfully be analyzed by employing other concepts. Indeed, according to an externalist strand of virtue epistemology, it is the very notion of reliability that we should employ to capture the difference between epistemic virtues and vices. Stable ways of forming beliefs are epistemic virtues if and only if they tend to result in true beliefs, epistemic vices if and only if they tend to result in false beliefs. Virtue epistemology, thus conceived, is a form of reliabilism.[64]

    6.2 Naturalistic Epistemology

    According to an extreme version of naturalistic epistemology, the project of traditional epistemology, pursued in an a priori fashion from the philosopher's armchair, is completely misguided. The "fruits" of such activity are demonstrably false theories such as foundationalism, as well as endless and arcane debates in the attempt to tackle questions to which there are no answers. To bring epistemology on the right path, it must be made a part of the natural sciences and become cognitive psychology. The aim of naturalistic epistemology thus understood is to replace traditional epistemology with an altogether new and redefined project. According to a moderate version of naturalistic epistemology, one primary task of epistemology is to identify how knowledge and justification are anchored in the natural world, just as it is the purpose of physics to explain phenomena like heat and cold, or thunder and lightning in terms of properties of the natural world. The pursuit of this task does not require of its proponents to replace traditional epistemology. Rather, this moderate approach accepts the need for cooperation between traditional conceptual analysis and empirical methods. The former is needed for the purpose of establishing a conceptual link between knowledge and reliability, the latter for figuring out which cognitive processes are reliable and which are not.[65]

    6.3 Religious Epistemology

    In the history of philosophy, there are several famous arguments for the existence of God: the ontological argument, the cosmological argument, and the argument from design. From an epistemological point of view, the question is whether such arguments can constitute a rational foundation of faith, or even give us knowledge of God. A further question is whether, if God exists, knowledge of God might not also be possible in other ways, for example, on the basis of perception or perhaps mystical experiences. There is also a famous problem casting doubt on the existence of God: Why, if God is an omniscient, omnipotent, and benevolent being, is there evil in the world? Here, the epistemological question is whether, based on this problem, we can know that God (thus conceived) does not exist. Another, central issue for religious epistemology is raised by evidentialism. According to evidentialism, knowledge requires adequate evidence. However, there does not seem to be any adequate evidence of God's existence. Is it possible, then, for theists to endorse evidentialism?[66]

    6.4 Moral Epistemology

    The basic moral categories are those of right and wrong action. When we do theoretical ethics, we wish to find out what it is that makes a right action right and a wrong action wrong. When we do practical or applied ethics, we attempt to find out which actions are right and which are wrong. The epistemological question these areas of philosophy raise is this: How can we know any of that? Traditionally, philosophers have attempted to answer the questions of ethics via intuition, a priori reasoning, and the consideration of hypothetical cases. Some philosophers who belong to the naturalistic camp consider this approach misguided because they think that it is unreliable and liable to produce results that merely reflect our own cultural and social biases. Among those who think that moral knowledge can be acquired via intuition and a priori reasoning, a primary question is whether the kind of justification such methods can generate is coherentist or foundationalist. Finally, a further important question is whether moral knowledge is at all possible. Knowledge requires truth and thus objective reality. According to anti-realists, there is no objective reality of, and thus no truth about, moral matters. Since what is known must be true, it is not easy to see how, if anti-realism were correct, there could be knowledge of moral matters.[67]

    6.5 Social Epistemology

    When we conceive of epistemology as including knowledge and justified belief as they are positioned within a particular social and historical context, epistemology becomes social epistemology. How to pursue social epistemology is a matter of controversy. According to some, it is an extension and reorientation of traditional epistemology with the aim of correcting its overly individualistic orientation. According to others, social epistemology ought to amount to a radical departure from traditional epistemology, which they see, like the advocates of radical naturalization, as a futile endeavor. Those who favor the former approach retain the thought that knowledge and justified belief are essentially linked to truth as the goal of our cognitive practices. They hold that there are objective norms of rationality that social epistemologists should aspire to articulate. Those who prefer the more radical approach would reject the existence of objective norms of rationality. Moreover, since many view scientific facts as social constructions, they would deny that the goal of our intellectual and scientific activities is to find facts. Such constructivism, if weak, asserts the epistemological claim that scientific theories are laden with social, cultural, and historical presuppositions and biases; if strong, it asserts the metaphysical claim that truth and reality are themselves socially constructed.[68]

    6.5 Feminist Epistemology

    When construed in a non-controversial way, the subject matter of feminist epistemology consists of issues having to do with fair and equal access of women to, and their participation in, the institutions and processes through which knowledge is generated and transmitted. Viewed this way, feminist epistemology can be seen as a branch of social epistemology. When we move beyond this initial characterization, what feminist epistemology is will become a matter of controversy. According to some, it includes the project of studying and legitimizing special ways in which only women can acquire knowledge. According to others, feminist epistemology should be understood as aiming at the political goal of opposing and rectifying oppression in general and the oppression of women in particular. At the extreme end, feminist epistemology is closely associated with postmodernism and its radical attack on truth and the notion of objective reality.[69]

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    Other Internet Resources
    •Epistemology Page, maintained by Keith De Rose (Yale University).
    •The Epistemology Research Guide, maintained by Keith Korcz (University of Lousiana/Lafayette).
    •"Direct Warrant Realism", an online manuscript, by Keith De Rose (Yale University).

    Related Entries

    contextualism, epistemic | epistemic closure principle | epistemology: naturalized | epistemology: social | epistemology: virtue | feminist (interventions): epistemology and philosophy of science | justification, epistemic: coherentist theories of | justification, epistemic: foundationalist theories of | justification, epistemic: internalist vs. externalist conceptions of | knowledge: analysis of | knowledge: by acquaintance vs. description | memory: epistemological problems of | perception: epistemological problems of | perception: the problem of | religion: epistemology of | self-knowledge


    The author would like to thank Earl Conee for his help, both philosophical and editorial. The editors would like to thank Michael Beaton and Harry McCauley for suggesting improvements to the wording of some of the above sentences.

    Copyright ©️ 2005 by
    Matthias Steup <>

    Last edited by orthodoxymoron on Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:33 pm; edited 2 times in total

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    Re: The United States of the Solar System: A.D. 2133 (Book One)

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:29 pm

    What about some of the 'Hard Sayings' of Jesus?? Here's one of them.

    "I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword" (Gospel of Matthew 10:34), part of the Lesser Commission, is one of the controversial statements reported of Jesus in the Bible. The saying has been interpreted in several ways. Its main significance is that it is often offered as evidence that Jesus advocated violence—a view that is repugnant to many branches of Christianity, such as the peace churches. Many Christians believe that the sword is a metaphor for ideological conflict and that Jesus is not advocating physical violence, especially since he talks of division in a family immediately after, and because in a parallel passage found in Luke 12:51 virtually identical to it, the word "sword" is replaced with "division".

    The "full" quotation, according to the New American Standard Bible (NASB) translation of the Bible, reads:

    Do not think that I came to bring peace on Earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man's enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it. (Matthew 10:34–39 NASB)
    Parallels in the Gospel of Luke (12:49–53,14:25–33) read:

    NASB 49 I have come to cast fire upon the Earth; and how I wish it were already kindled! 50 But I have a baptism* to undergo, and how distressed I am until it is accomplished! 51 Do you suppose that I came to grant peace on earth? I tell you, no, but rather division; 52 for from now on five members in one household will be divided, three against two and two against three. 53 They will be divided, father* against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law. (Luke 12:49–53) King James Version 49 I am come to send fire on Earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? 50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! 51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: 52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. 53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. (Luke 12:49–53) Verse comparison NASB If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple. (Luke 14:26)
    And in Luke 22:35–38

    But now, whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one. (Luke 22:36 NASB)


    The first step of Biblical exegesis is usually to review the immediate context (surrounding text) of the passage in question. In the case of the first quote above (from the Gospel of Matthew), the tenth chapter may be considered sufficient context. (See here for the text; KJV.)

    This chapter tells of Jesus sending his disciples out to minister to "the lost sheep of the house of Israel". ("Lost sheep" is a common Biblical metaphor for people who have "gone astray" in some way. "House of Israel" refers to the descendants of Israel, the Israelites.) Specifically, he commanded his disciples to "heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give." These were all considered good works, and according to Christians this exemplifies Jesus's message of peace, love, health, and life.

    Starting in verse 13, Jesus then goes on to inform his disciples that they will not always be warmly received. He instructs them to depart from homes and cities that will not receive them. He then adds in verse 15, "Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment, than for that city." According to Abrahamic tradition, the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah had earlier been destroyed by God. As context for the "I bring a sword" quote, many Christians see this as an indication that God, rather than Christians, will be responsible for any punishment due to those who reject Jesus's message. (See also Olivet discourse.)

    Jesus then warned his disciples that they would encounter violent resistance on their ministry. In verse 16 he is quoted as saying (RSV), "Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves." Here, doves may be invocative of peace, although in the context of first-century Judaic culture it may have had a different meaning. In verse 21 Jesus is quoted as saying (KJV), "And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death." This is clearly an apocalyptic prediction, and related to the Septuagint, Micah 7:6, but Jesus does not express his views on the matter, other than saying "All men will hate you because of me" in verse 22. He then instructs his followers to flee to a different city when they are persecuted.

    He then exhorts his disciples not to fear. He assures them that faithful proclamation of his message will have its rewards.

    Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. (Matthew 10:32–33, KJV)

    Immediately thereafter Jesus makes the comment in question, verse 34, saying that he came not to bring peace, but the sword, followed by a direct quote of Micah 7:6 in verse 35–36.

    Some quote verses like John 14:27 as a contradiction to this verse: "Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid." The perceived contradiction comes from a misunderstanding of the word "peace" as used in the New Testament. If the word "peace" is to be defined as an absence of conflict, the second clause of this sentence is contradictory to the first. Jesus would not need to encourage his audience to resist fear and trouble if he would be leaving them with a lack of conflict. Clearly Jesus is promising his followers a peace in the presence of conflict, to carry them through the coming trials.

    The Book of Kells, a Celtic illuminated manuscript copy of the Gospels, uses the word “gaudium” meaning “joy” rather than “gladium,” which means “sword” -- rendering the verse in translation: “I came not [only] to bring peace, but joy”.[1]

    See also

    The Bible and violence
    Christianity and violence
    Christian pacifism
    Live by the sword, die by the sword
    Sell your cloak and buy a sword
    Turning the other cheek
    Violence begets violence


    1.^ Nathan, George Jean Nathan; Henry Louis Mencken (1951). The American Mercury. p. 572. "The compilers of the late seventh century manuscript, The Book of Kells, refused to adopt St. Jerome's phrase "I come not to bring peace but a sword." (" . . . non pacem sed gladium.")To them the phrase made no sense and they altered it ..."


    Check this out!!

    Christ About His Father's Business

    A Sermon
    (No. 122)
    Delivered on Sabbath Morning, March 15, 1857, by the
    REV. C. H. Spurgeon
    at the Music Hall, Royal Surrey Gardens.


    "Wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?"—Luke 2:49

    Behold then, how great an interest God the Father takes in the work of salvation. It is called "his business;" and though Jesus Christ came to accomplish our redemption, came to set us a perfect example, and to establish a way of salvation, yet he came not upon his own business, but upon his Father's business—his Father taking as much interest in the salvation of men as even he himself did—the great heart of the Father being as full of love as the bleeding heart of the Son, and the mind of the first person of the Trinity being as tenderly affected towards his chosen as even the mind of Christ Jesus, our substitute, our surety, and our all. It is his "Father's business" Behold, also, the condescension of the Son, that he should become the servant of the Father, to do not his own business, but the Father's business. See how he stoops to become a child, subject to his mother; and mark how he stoops to become a man, subject to God his Father. He took upon himself the nature of man, and though he was the Son, equal in power with God, who "counted it not robbery to be equal with God," yet he "took upon himself the form of a servant and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross." Learn, then, O believer, to love all the persons of the Divine Trinity alike. Remember that salvation is no more the work of one than of the other. They all three agree in one, and as in the creation they all said, "Let us make man;" so in salvation they all say, "Let us save man;" and each of them does so much of it that it is truly the work of each and undividedly the work of all. Remember that notable passage of Isaiah the prophet—"I will divide him a portion with the great and he shall divide the spoil with the strong." God divides, and Christ divides. The triumph is God's; the Father "divides for him a portion with the great;" it is equally Christ's, he "divides the spoil with the strong." Set not one person before the other; reverently adore them alike, for they are one—one in design, one in character, and one in essence; and whilst they be truly three, we may in adoration exclaim, "Unto the one God of heaven and earth the glory, as it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be, world without end. Amen."

    But now I shall invite your attention, first, to the spirit of the Saviour, as breathed in these words, "Wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?" and then, secondly, I shall exhort the children of God, with all the earnestness which I can command, with all the intensity of power which I can summon to the point, to labour after the same spirit, that they too may unfeignedly say, "Wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business? "

    I. First, then note THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST. It was a spirit of undivided consecration to the will of God his Father. It was a spirit urged onward by an absolute necessity to serve God. Note the word "must." "Wist ye not that I must?" There is a something in me which prevents me from doing other work. I feel an all-controlling, overwhelming influence which constrains me at all times and in every place to be about my Father's business; the spirit of high, holy, entire, sincere, determined consecration in heart to God. "Wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?"

    First, what was the impelling power which (as it were) forced Christ to be about his Father's business? and then, secondly, how did he do his Father's business, and what was it?

    1. What was the impelling power which made Christ say, "I must be about my Father's business? " In the first place, it was the spirit of obedience which thoroughly possessed itself of his bosum. When he took upon him the form of a servant he received the spirit of an obedient servant too, and became as perfect in the capacity of a servant as he had ever been in that of a ruler, though in that he had perfectly executed all his of life. Beloved believer! Do you not remember when you were first converted to God, when the young life of your new-born spirit was strong and active how impetuously you desired to obey God, and how intense was your eagerness to serve him in some way or other? I can remember well how I could scarcely abide myself five minutes without doing something for Christ. If I walked the street I must have a tract with me; if I went into a railway carriage I must drop a tract out of the window; if I had a moment's leisure I must be upon my knees or at my Bible if I were in company I must turn the subject of conversation to Christ, that I might serve my Master. Alas, I must confess, much of that strength of purpose has departed from me, as I doubt not it has from many of you who, with a greater prominence, have also received diminished zeal. It may be that in the young dawn of life we did imprudent things in order to serve the cause of Christ; but I say, give me back the time again, with all its imprudence and with all its hastiness, if I might but have the same love to my Master, the same overwhelming influence in my spirit making me obey because it was a pleasure to me to obey God. Now, Christ felt just in the same way. He must do it. He must serve God; he must be obedient; he could not help it. The spirit was in him, and would work, just as the spirit of disobedience in the wicked impels them to sin. Lust, sometimes, drags the sinner on to sin with a power so strong and mighty that poor man can no more resist it than the sere leaf can resist the tempest. We had lusts so omnipotent, that they had but to suggest, and we were their willing slaves; we had habits so tyrannical that we could not break their chains; we were impelled to evil, like the straw in the whirlwind, or the chip in the whirlpool. We were hurried whithersoever our lusts would bear us—"drawn away and enticed." Now, in the new heart it is just the same, only in another direction. The spirit of obedience worketh in us, impelling us to serve our God, so that when that spirit is unclogged and free we may truly say, "We must be about our Father's business." We cannot help it.

    2. But Christ had what some men only have. He had another motive for this, another impelling cause. He had a sacred call to the work which he had undertaken, and that secret call forced him on. You think, perhaps it is fanatical to talk of sacred calls; but call it fanatical or no, this one thing I will own—the belief in a special call to do a special work is like the arm of omnipotence to a man. Let a man believe that God has set him to do a particular work, and you may sneer at him: what cares he? He would give as much for your sneer as he would for your smile, and that is nothing at all. He believes God intends him to do the work. You say nay: but he never asked you for your vote upon the question; he has received God's message, as he thinks, and he goes on, and you cannot resist him. If he sits still for a little while, a spirit haunts him—he knows not what it is, but he is unhappy unless he engages in a business which he feels is the commission of his life. If he hold his tongue when God has commanded him to speak, the word is like fire in his bones—it burns its way out, until at last he says, with Elihu, "I am bled with matter; I am like a vessel that wanteth vent;" I must speak, or burst; I cannot help it. Depend upon it, the men that have done the greatest work for our holy religion have been the men who had the special call to it. I no more doubt the call of Luther than I doubt the call of the apostles, and he did not doubt it either. One of the reasons why Luther did a thing was because other people did not like it. When he was about to smite a blow at the Papacy by marrying a nun all his friends said it was a fearful thing. Luther consulted them, and did the deed, perhaps, all the sooner because they disapproved of it. A strange reason it may seem, that a man should do a thing because he was dissuaded from it; but he felt that it was his work to strike the Papacy right and left, and for that he would give up everything, even the friendship of friends. His business, by night and by day, was to pray down the pope, to preach down the pope, to write down the pope, and do it he must, though often in the roughest, coarsest manner, with iron gauntlets on his hands. It was his work; do it he must. You might have done what you pleased with Luther, even to the rending out his tongue: he would have taken his pen, dipped it in fire, and written in burning words the doom of Papacy. He could not help it, heaven had forced him to the work, he had a special commission given him from on high, and no man could stay him any more than he could stay the wind in its careering, or the tide in its motions. Christ had a special work. "The spirit of the Lord is upon me, the Lord hath anointed me to preach glad tidings to the poor." And he felt the effects of this anointing—the power of this impelling. And stay he must not, he could not, he dare not. "I must," said he, "be about my Father's business."

    3. But once more, Christ had something which few of us can fully know. He had a vow upon him—the vow to do the work from all eternity. He had become the surety of the covenant, he had sworn that he would execute his Father's business. He had taken a solemn oath that he would become man; that he would pay the ransom price of all his beloved ones; that he would come and do his Father's business, whatever that might be. "Lo, I come," said he. "In the volume of the book, it is written of me, I delight to do thy will, O God." Therefore, being faithful and true, the covenant, the engagement, the suretyship, the sworn promise and the oath made him say, "I must be about my Father's business." Whenever you make a vow, my dear friends—and do that very seldom—take care that you keep it. Few should be the vows that men make, but they should always be sincerely kept. God asketh no vow of us, but when his Spirit moveth us to make a vow—and we may do so honestly if we make a vow in his strength—we are bound to keep it. And he that feels that he has made a vow, must then feel himself impelled to do the work which he hath vowed to do. Let the difficulty be never so great, if you have vowed to overcome it, do it. Let tire mountain be never so high, if you have made a vow to God that you will attempt it scale its summit, and never give it up. If the vow be a right one, God will help you to accomplish it. O ye upon whom are the vows of the Lord! (and some of you have taken solemn vows upon you, by making a profession of religion) I beseech you, by the sacrament in which you dedicated yourself to your Lord, and by that other sacrament in which you found communion with Jesus, now to fulfill your vows, and pay them daily, nightly, hourly, constantly, perpetually; and lot these compel you to say, "I must be about my Father's business." These, I think, were the impelling motives which forced Christ on in his heavenly labor.

    Secondly. But now, what was his Father's business? I think it lay in three things—example, establishment, expiation.

    1. One part of his Father's business was, to send into the world a perfect example for our imitation. God had written divers books of example in the lives of the saints. One man was noted for one virtue, and another for another. At last, God determined that he would gather all his works into one volume, and give a condensation of all virtues in the person of our Lord Jesus Christ. Now he determined to unite all the parts into one, to string all the pearls on one necklace, and to make them all apparent around the neck of one single person. The sculptor finds here a leg from some eminent master, and there a hand from another mighty sculptor. Here he finds an eye, and there a head full of majesty. He saith, within himself, "I will compound those glories, I will put them all together; then it shall be the model man. I will make the statue par excellence, which shall stand first in beauty, and shall be noted ever afterwards as the model of manhood." So said God, "There is Job—he hath patience; there is Moses—he hath meekness, there are those mighty ones who all have eminent virtues. I will take these, I will put them into one; and the man Christ Jesus shall be the perfect model of future imitation." Now, I say, that all Christ's life he was endeavoring to do his Father's business in this matter. You never find Christ doing a thing which you may not imitate. You would scarcely think it necessary that he should be baptized; but lo, he goes to Jordan's stream and dives beneath the wave, that he may be buried in baptism unto death, and may rise again—though he needed not to rise—into newness of life. You see him healing the sick, to teach us benevolence; rebuking hypocrisy to teach us boldness; enduring temptation to teach us hardness, wherewith, as good soldiers of Christ, we ought to war a good warfare. You see him forgiving his enemies to teach us the grace of meekness and of forbearance; you behold him giving up his very life to teach us how we should surrender ourselves to God, and give up ourselves for the good of others. Put Christ at the wedding; you may imitate him. Ay, sirs, and you might imitate him, if you could, in turning water into wine, without a sin. Put Christ at a funeral; you may imitate him—"Jesus wept." Put him on the mountain-top; he shall be there in prayer alone, and you may imitate him. Put him in the crowd; he shall speak so, that if you could speak like him you should speak well. Put him with enemies; he shall so confound them, that he shall be a model for you to copy. Put him with friends, and he shall be a "friend that sticketh closer than a brother," worthy of your imitation. Exalt him, cry hosanna, and you shall see him riding upon a "colt, the foal of an ass," meek and lowly. Despise and spit upon him, you shall see him bearing contumely and contempt with the same evenness of spirit which characterised him when he was exalted in the eye of the world Everywhere you may imitate Christ. Ay, sirs, and you may even imitate him in that "the Son of Man came eating and drinking" and therein fulfllled what he determined to do—to pull down the vain pharisaism of man, which saith that religion standeth in meats and drinks, whereas, "Not that which goeth into a man defileth a man but that which goeth out of a man, that defileth the man." And that is wherein we should take heed to ourselves, lest the inner man be defiled. Never once did he swerve from that bright, true mirror of perfection. He was in everything as an exemplar, always doing his Father's business.

    2. And so in the matter that I have called establishment, that is the establishment of a new dispensation; that was his Father's business, and therein, Christ was always doing it. He went into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. Was he doing it then? Ah, sirs, he was; for it was necessary that he should be "a faithful high-priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succor them that are tempted." When he speaks, you can see him establishing his Word, and when he puts the finger of silence to his lips, he is doing it as much; for then was fulfilled the prophecy, "he was brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb." Does he work a miracle? Do the obedient winds hush their tumult at his voice? It is to establish the gospel, by teaching us that he is divine. Does he weep? It is to establish the gospel, by teaching us that he is human. Does he gather the apostles? It is that they may go abroad in every land, preaching the Word of God. Does he sit upon a well? It is that he may teach a woman, and that she may teach the whole city of Samaria the way of salvation. He was always engaged in this work of example, and this work of establishment.

    3. And ah, beloved, when he came to the climax of his labor, when he came to the greatest toil of all, that which a thousand men could never have done; when he came to do the great work of expiation, how thoroughly he did it.

    "View him prostrate in the garden;
    On the ground your Maker lies.
    On the bloody tree behold him:
    Hear him cry before he dies—

    And there you have a proof that he was about his Father's business. It was his Father's business made him sweat great drops of blood; his Father's business ploughed his back with many gory furrows; his Father's business pricked his temple with the thorn crown; his Father's business made him mocked and spit upon; his Father's business made him go about bearing his cross; his Father's business made him despise the shame when, naked, he hung upon the tree; his Father's business made him yield himself to death, though he needed not to die if so he had not pleased; his Father's business made him tread the gloomy shades of Gehenna, and descend into the abodes of death; his Father's business made him preach to the spirits in prison; and his Father's business took him up to heaven, where he sitteth on the right hand of God, doing his Father's business still! His Father's business makes him plead day and night for Sion; the same business shall make him come as the Judge of quick and dead, to divide the sheep from the goats; the same business shall make him gather together in one, all people who dwell on the face of the earth! Oh, glory to thee, Jesus; thou hast done it! Thou hast done thy Father's business well.

    II. Thus, I have given you the example. Now, let me exhort you to IMITATE IT.

    Tell me, if you can why the religion of Christ is so very slow in spreading. Mohomet, an imposter stood up in the streets to preach. He was hooted, stones were thrown at him. Within a month after, he had disciples. A few more years, and he had a host behind him. Not a century had rolled away before a thousand scimitars flashed from their scabbards at the bidding of the caliphs. His religion overran nations like wildfire, and devoured kingdoms. But why? The followers of the prophet were entirely devoted to his cause. When that Moslem of old spurred his horse into the sea, to ride across the straits of Gibraltar, and then reined him up, and said, "I would cross if God willed it! "there was something in it that told us why his religion was so strong. Ah! those warriors of that time were ready to die for their religion, and therefore it spread. Can you tell me why Christianity spread so much in primitive times? It was because holy men "counted not their lives dear unto them," but were willing to "suffer the loss of all things" for Christ's sake. Paul traverses many countries, Peter ranges through many nations, Philip and the other evangelists go through various countries, testifying the word of God. Sirs, I will tell you why our faith in these days spreads so little. Pardon me—it is because the professors of it do not believe it! Believe it! Yes; they believe it in the head, not in the heart. We have not enough of true devotedness to the cause, or else God would bless Sion with a far greater increase, I am fully persuaded. How few there are that have given themselves fully up to their religion! They take their religion, like my friend over there has taken that little farm of his. He has a farm of a thousand acres, but he thinks he could increase his means, perhaps, by taking a little farm of a hundred acres or so a little way off; and he gives that to a bailiff and does not take much trouble about it himself. It is not very likely he will have very fine farming there, because he leaves it to somebody else. Just so with religion. Your great farm is your shop, your great aim is your worldly business. You like to keep religion as a snug investment at very small interest indeed, which you intend to draw out when you get near death; but you do not want to live on it just now. You have enough profit from your own daily business, and you do not want religion for every day life. Sirs, the reason why your religion does not spread is because it has not got root enough in your hearts. How few there are of us who are ready to devote ourselves wholly, bodily, and spiritually to the cause of the gospel of Christ! And if you should attempt to do so, how many opponents you would meet with! Go into the church meeting, and be a little earnest; what will they say? Why, they will serve you just as David's brother did, when David spoke about fighting Goliath. "Oh," he said, "because of the pride and the naughtiness of thine heart, to see the battle thou art come." "Now, stand aside, do not think you can do anything; away with you!" And if you are in earnest, especially in the ministry, it is just the same. Your brethren pray every Sabbath—"Lord, send more laborers into the vineyard!" And if God should send them, they wish them safe out of their corner of it, at any rate. They may go anywhere else, but they must not come anywhere near them, for it might affect their congregation, it might stir them up a little; and people might think they did not labor quite earnestly enough. "Stand aside! "they say. But brethren, do not mind about that. If you cannot bear to be huffed and snuffed, there is little good in you. If you cannot bear snuffing, depend upon it you cannot be well lit yet. Dare to go on against all the prudence of men, and you will find them pat you on the shoulder by-and-by and call you "dear brother." Every man is helped to get up, when he is as high as he can be. If you are down, "keep him down," is the cry; but if you are getting up, you will never get help till you have done it yourself; and then men will give you their help when you do not require it. However, your war-cry must be, "Wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?"

    Again, even the best of your friends, if you are truly zealous of God, will come to you and say—and very kindly too—"Now, you must take a little more care of your constitution. Now, don't be doing so much; don't, I beseech you! "Or if you are giving money away—"Now you must be a little more prudent; take more care of your family. Really, you must not do so." Or if you are earnest in prayer, they will say—"There is no need of such enthusiasm as this: you know you can be religious, and not too religious; you can be moderately so." And so you find both friends and enemies striving to hinder your consecration to Christ. Now, I like what old Rowland Hill said, when some one told him that he was "moderately religious." "Well then, you are irreligious, for a man that is moderately honest is a rogue for certain; and so the man that is moderately religious is irreligious." If religion be worth anything it is worth everything; if it be anything it is everything. Religion cannot go halves with anything else, it must be all. We must, if we be thoroughly imbued with the spirit of Christ, imitate Christ in this—the giving up of all to God; so that we can sincerely say,

    "And if I might make some reserve,
    And duty did not call,
    I love my God with zeal so great,
    That I could give him all."

    I shall never forget the circumstance, when after I thought I had made a full consecration to Christ, a slanderous report against my character came to my ears, and my heart was broken in agony because I should have to lose that, in preaching Christ's gospel I fell on my knees, and said, "Master, I will not keep back even my character for thee. If I must lose that too, then let it go, it is the dearest thing I have, but it shall go, if, like my Master, they shall say I have a devil and am mad; or, like him I am a drunken man and a wine-bibber. It is gone, if I may but say—"I have suffered the loss of all things; and I do count them but dross that I may win Christ!" And you, Christian, will never get on well in serving God, till you have given all to him. That which you keep back will canker, If you reserve the least portion of your time, your property, or your talents, and do not give all to Christ, you will find there will be a sore, a gangrene in it; for Christ will bless you in all when you give all to him; but what you keep from him, he will curse, and blight, and ruin. He will have all of us, the whole of us, all we possess, or else he never will be satisfied.

    And now let me answer one or two objections, and I shall still stir you up, who make a profession of religion, to give up all you have to Christ. You say, "Sir, I cannot do it; I am not in the right profession." Well, sir, you spoke truly when you said that; for if there be a profession that will not allow us to give all to Christ, it is not a right profession, and we ought not to follow it at all." "But," you say "how can I do it?" Well what are you? I do not care what you are; I assert it is possible for you to do all things in the name of God, and so to give glory to Christ. Do not think you need be a minister to dedicate yourself to Christ. Many a man has disgraced the pulpit, and many a man has sanctified an anvil; many a man has dishonored the cushion upon which he preached, and many a man has conscerated the plough with which he has turned the soil. We ought in all our business, as well as in our sacred acts, to do all for Christ. Let me illustrate this. A merchant in America had devoted a large part of his money for the maintenance of the cause of Christ; and one said to him, "What a sacrifice you make every year." Said he "Not so. I have a clerk: suppose I give that clerk fifty pounds to pay a schoolmaster, and when he goes to the schoolmaster, he should say, "Here is your salary; what a sacrifice it is to me to give you that! 'Why,' the schoolmaster would say, 'Sir, it is not yours, it is no sacrifice at all to you.'" So said this good man, "I gave up all when I came to God, I became his steward, and no longer head of the firm. I made God the head of the firm, and I became the steward. And now when I distribute of my wealth, I only distribute it as his allmoner; and it is no sacrifice at all." If we talk of sacrifices we make a mistake. Ought not that to be the spirit of our religion? It should be made a sacrifice at first, ant then afterwards there should be a voluntary offering of all. "I keep my shop open," said one, "and earn money for God. I and my family live out of it—God allows us to do it; for as a minister lives by the gospel, he allows me to live by my business, and he permits me to provide a competence for old age, but that is not my object." "I sell these goods," said another one, but the profit I get, God has; that which I require for my own food and raiment, and for my household, that God giveth back to me, for he has said, bread shall be given me, and water shall be sure; but the rest is God's not mine; I do it all for God." Now you do not understand that theory, do you? It is not business. No, sirs, but if your hearts were right you would understand it, for it is God's gospel—the giving up all to Christ; the giving up of everything to his cause. When we do that, then shall we understand this passage—"Wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?" For your business, though it is carried on in your name, will, unknown to men, be carried on in God's name too. Let me beg of you, however, not to tell everybody, if you do it I have known some that hang the gospel in the window, more attractively, sometimes, than ribbons. I do hate the cant of a man, who, when you go to buy ribbons or pay a bill, asks you to have a tract, or invites you into the beck parlour to pray; you will see at once what he is after. He wants to sanctify his counter, so that as people catch flies with honey, he may catch you with religion. Put your religion where it will come out, but do not cant about it. If a stranger should call upon you, and in a moment exclaim "Let us pray;" your best policy is to let him have the street to do it in, and you should say, "Thank you, I do my praying alone mostly. I see what it is. If I thought you had the spirit of prayer, and it had been the proper season, I would have joined with you with all my heart." But the religion of a man who will just step into your house, to let you see what an extraordinary pious man he is, is either very sick, or else it is a galvanized thing that has got no life in it at all. I regard prayer as a very sacred thing. "When thou prayest, enter into thy closet; and when thou givest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth." For verily if you do it to be seen of men you have your reward: and a poor one it is, a little praise for a minute, and it is all gone. But, nevertheless, do not run into one extreme by running from another. Conscerate your business by your religion. Do not paint your religion on your side-board; but keep it ready whenever you want it, and I am sure you will want it always.

    Says one, "How can I do God's business? I have no talent, I have no money; all I earn in the week I have to spend, and I have scarce money enough to pay my rent. I have no talent; I could not teach in a Sunday-school." Brother, have you a child? Well, there is one door of usefulness for you. Sister, you are very poor; no one knows you, you have a husband, and however drunken he may be, there is a door of usefulness for you. Bear up under all his insults, be patient under all his taunts and jeers, and you can serve God, and do God's business so." "But, sir I am sick, it is only to-day I am able to get out at all; I am always on my bed." You can do your Master's business, by Iying on a bed of suffering, for him, if you do it patiently. The soldier who is ordered to lie in the trenches, is just as obedient as the man who is ordered to storm the breach. In everything you do you can serve your God. Oh, when the heart is rightly tuned in this matter we shall never make excuses, and say, "I cannot be about my Father's business." We shall always find some business of his to do. In the heroic wars of the Swiss, we read that the mothers would bring cannon-balls for the fathers to fire upon the enemy, and the children would run about and gather up the shot that sometimes fell, when ammunition ran short. So that all did something. We hate war, but we will use the figure in the war of Christ. There is something for you all to do. Oh I let us who love our Master, let us who are bound to serve him by the ties of gratitude let us say, "Wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?"

    And now I close up by addressing all the Lord's people here, and urging them to serve God with all their hearts, by giving them two or three very brief and very earnest reasons.

    Be about your Father's business with all earnestness, because that is the way of usefulness. You cannot do your own business and God's too. You cannot serve God and self any more than you can serve God and mammon. If you make your own business God's business, you will do your business well; and you will be useful in your day and generation. Never shall we see any great revival in the church, or any great triumphs of religion until the Christian world is more touched with the spirit of entire consecration to Christ. When the world shall see as in earnest then God will bring men in; not before. We go to our pulpits in half heartedness: we go to our place of worship mere shells without the kernel. We give the outward ceremony and take away the heart. We shall never see Christ's cause triumphant so. Would you be useful? Would you extend your Master's empire? Then be about your Father's business.

    Again, would you be happy? Be about your Father's business. Oh! it is sweet employment to serve your Father. You need not turn aside from the way of business to do that. If your heart be right, you can serve God in weighing a pound of tea as much as in preaching a sermon. You can serve God as much in driving a horse and c