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    RedEzra

    Posts : 559
    Join date : 2014-04-24

    Re: Bible

    Post  RedEzra on Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:58 pm


    The Revelation 12 sign is an astronomical mark in time telling God's watchmen that the world's last ungodly power is fast approaching with great trouble for all the people of the world.

    What is the point of a sign ? It is to inform or warn about an approaching event right. Naturally a sign comes before an event.



    "Above all understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. They will say, 'Where is this coming he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.' But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water. By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly." - 2 Peter 3:3-7
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    RedEzra

    Posts : 559
    Join date : 2014-04-24

    Re: Bible

    Post  RedEzra on Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:23 pm

    burgundia wrote:
    RedEzra wrote:
    The world as we know it is actually collapsing around us guys.

    Fukushima mass animal deaths volcanos earthquakes extreme weather wars and rumours of wars. The new world order which the international elite is calling for is in our immediate future. And their ten new commandments are written in stone down in Georgia.

    So do not talk bubble gum blabber to me.

    Do not tell me that everything is fine and that i am you and you are me and we are God and all is well. That is bubble gum !





    What a revelation!  I am sure nobody heard about it until now.


    That is not the point. The point is there are a lot of bubble gum blabbers who are so removed from reality that they speak as if they spent their entire life in a private bubble.

    Or they refuse to acknowledge practical reality and just sit and fantasize about how they want the world to be... withouth providing proof for their philosophising.

    Buddhists gurus and new agers all belong in that basket of bubble gum blabber.
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    RedEzra

    Posts : 559
    Join date : 2014-04-24

    Re: Bible

    Post  RedEzra on Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:57 pm


    You live in a creation.

    The earth you thread and the air you breathe and the fruits you eat and the water you drink and the trees you climb and the grass you lay on...

    You not only live in a creation... you also are a creation.

    Created by somebody greater than you... and that fact can be tough to swallow for an ego.

    There is somebody so much greater smarter and more powerful than you... tuff deal with it !






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    orthodoxymoron

    Posts : 7844
    Join date : 2010-09-28

    Re: Bible

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:18 am

    Swanny wrote:So Red are you excited about the coming rapture? Although judging by your behaviour on here you don't seem like a very good christian type Very Happy so maybe they won't be taking you Neutral

    P.S. Don't worry nothing will happen on Saturday sunny
    Swanny wrote:He's being a bit quiet so that when he comes back (after nothing happens) he can say it was just a hoax put out by nonbelievers Very Happy  
    Swanny wrote:I had a great day today. Sun was shining and I was out on my motorbike. I reckon rapture happened and I went to heaven Cool
    RedEzra wrote:The Revelation 12 sign is an astronomical mark in time telling God's watchmen that the world's last ungodly power is fast approaching with great trouble for all the people of the world. What is the point of a sign ? It is to inform or warn about an approaching event right. Naturally a sign comes before an event.

    "Above all understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. They will say, 'Where is this coming he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.' But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water. By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly." - 2 Peter 3:3-7
    RedEzra wrote:
    burgundia wrote:
    RedEzra wrote:The world as we know it is actually collapsing around us guys.

    Fukushima mass animal deaths volcanos earthquakes extreme weather wars and rumours of wars. The new world order which the international elite is calling for is in our immediate future. And their ten new commandments are written in stone down in Georgia.

    So do not talk bubble gum blabber to me.

    Do not tell me that everything is fine and that i am you and you are me and we are God and all is well. That is bubble gum !

    What a revelation!  I am sure nobody heard about it until now.

    That is not the point. The point is there are a lot of bubble gum blabbers who are so removed from reality that they speak as if they spent their entire life in a private bubble.

    Or they refuse to acknowledge practical reality and just sit and fantasize about how they want the world to be... withouth providing proof for their philosophising.

    Buddhists gurus and new agers all belong in that basket of bubble gum blabber.
    RedEzra wrote:You live in a creation.

    The earth you thread and the air you breathe and the fruits you eat and the water you drink and the trees you climb and the grass you lay on...

    You not only live in a creation... you also are a creation.

    Created by somebody greater than you... and that fact can be tough to swallow for an ego.

    There is somebody so much greater smarter and more powerful than you... tuff deal with it !
    RedEzra wrote:"You brood of vipers ! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come ?"

    Those were the words of welcome from John to the people who came to be baptized by him in the river Jordan. Not exactly politically correct by today's standards... nevertheless John was the greatest human being ever born according to Jesus.

    "Truly I tell you, among those born of women there has risen no one greater than John the Baptist. Yet even the least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he." - Matthew 11:11

    John was of course not the greatest human being because of his temper tantrums... but because he was chosen to prepare the way for the ministry of God Almighty Himself.
    Then, From a Different Thread, A-1 asked me:
    Aquaries1111 wrote:
    The question Neo: is

    "Who's who in the zoo"?

    orthodoxymoron wrote:A couple of weeks ago, I witnessed a HUGE 'S' in the sky (above a thin cloud-cover) in the Pacific Northwest!! It was perfectly-symmetrical and well-defined!! I think it was on a Sunday the Seattle Seahawks lost a football-game. I didn't have my phone with me, so I didn't get a photograph. Was this a HAARP attempt to trigger a Cascadia subduction-zone disaster?? Damned if I know. Regarding 'Who is Who??' we might NEVER know!! I continue to suspect 'Top-Dog' multiple-bodies and multiple-personalities, but I obviously can't prove it!! BTW, have I met you, A-1??


    Viewer discretion advised for all of these disturbing videos. I'm not sure what my
    point is, but I simply attempt to create some sort of a research-baseline for
    Sirius-Researchers who know a hell of a lot more than I do.








    I wasn't going to post for the rest of 2017, but that Las Vegas shooting shook me up. Lone-Nut or False-Flag?? Damned if I know. To whom it may concern, "Conduct Info-Wars (if you must), but skip the Terrorism-Thing. It's easier that way." Notice in the above-video that there seems to be multiple-shooters in multiple-locations (but I'm not an expert). I found this video highly-disturbing.

    Anyway, consider reading Job through Daniel, straight-through, over and over, and see what YOU think!! I think the Bible is highly-problematic, yet highly-necessary, regarding salvaging this highly-problematic civilization!! I continue to suspect that we are in more trouble than most anyone can imagine (including me)!! The following article doesn't necessarily reflect my thinking, but I thought someone might enjoy reading it!! Also, I need your opinions regarding the videos at the bottom of this post!! BTW, I've joked about the 'aliens' messing with me, and connecting my brain and/or soul to a mainframe, but why do I hear a strange-sound, and see a test-pattern in my visual-field?? I previously mentioned an 'Unseen Individual of Interest' who was in a room next to the one I was in, and who seemed to be highly important, intelligent, and rude!! "You can do a table-dance for me!!" "Why did you do THAT??!!" "I don't want to talk to you anymore. Goodbye." Well, I think I might've recently spoken with them face to face, and they were extremely rude to me, but I don't want to talk about it. They simply fit-in with my 'Rachel Constantine' and 'Josephine Mataros' conceptualizing. Enough Said.


    Response To: “The Investigative Judgment: A Bible Based Doctrine?” The Watchtower, July 15, 1997

    Angel Manuel Rodríguez Biblical Research Institute Nov. 1997
    https://adventistbiblicalresearch.org/sites/default/files/pdf/investigative.pdf

    I. Introduction

    This article summarizes some of the more recent attacks to the Adventist doctrine of the sanctuary by persons who formerly worked for the church. Two specific individuals are mentioned and quoted throughout this document, namely Desmond Ford and Raymond F. Cottrell. Neither of them represents or speaks for the church or on behalf of Adventist theologians and the church does not consider them to be representative of Adventist beliefs. Anthony A. Hoekema, a non-Adventist critic, is also quoted to attack the Adventist position.  The main burden of the article addresses the biblical foundation or lack of foundation for the teaching of the investigative judgment. Using arguments from the theologians cited above, the article concludes that the doctrine is not biblical because there is no link between Daniel 8:14 and Leviticus 16 and because the context of Daniel 8:14 does not support the Adventist interpretation.  These questions have been studied in depth by Adventist scholars and, based on careful study of the Scriptures, satisfactory answers have been given.  

    The Biblical Research Institute of the General Conference published seven volumes dealing with the sanctuary and the interpretation of Daniel and  Revelation. They contain a collection of biblical studies prepared by a large number of Adventist theologians who firmly believe that our teachings on the sanctuary are biblically based. The volumes carry the general description of “The Daniel and Revelation Committee Series” and can be obtained from our Adventist Book Centers.  The article makes reference to a small committee set up by the General Conference in the 1950’s to study Daniel 8:14. Quoting Raymond Cottrell, it says that the committee was not able to support the Adventist interpretation. This is obviously the opinion of Raymond Cottrell, who was a member of the committee and opposed any interpretation other than the one he was promoting.  The great majority of the members supported the Adventist position. Because of attempts by some to change the church’s position, the work of the committee was left unfinished. It is saddening that some among us have raised themselves to undermine truth but for us this is a sign of the times.  In what follows we will provide some of the biblical materials and reasons why we believe that the argument of this article is an attack against biblical truth. It will become clear that contextually as well as linguistically the Adventist interpretation is on solid biblical ground. We encourage the reader to study this material carefully, with prayer and with an open Bible.  

    1.  Relation Between Daniel 8 and Leviticus

    Daniel 8:13-14 is part of a large vision (hāzôn) which began in 8:1. The prophet saw a ram with two horns, one higher than the other, charging to the west, north, and south. It was attacked and defeated by a he-goat coming from the west having one horn between the eyes. The he-goat was magnifying itself exceedingly when its horn broke into four which grew to the four winds of the heavens. Another horn appeared from one of the winds. It was a horn coming from small beginnings (“little horn”) which grew exceedingly great to the south, east, and to the glorious land and had control over the host of heaven, i.e. the people of God (vs. 10, 24; cf. Exod 7;4). This geographical, horizontal expansion (vs. 9-10), was followed by a vertical expansion or conquest (vs. 11-12). The horn magnified itself against the Prince of the hosts, took the continual away from him, overthrew the place of the sanctuary, and cast down the truth to the ground. It is in this setting that the prophet hears a holy one asking, “For how long is the vision. . . ?” and the answer was given, “For two thousand and three hundred evenings and mornings; then the sanctuary shall be restored to its rightful state”[nitsdaq], (8:13-14).  It is very important for any exegete to observe that language used in the context of the Israelite sanctuary and its services is employed in Daniel 9-14 to describe the work of the little horn and the work of the Prince of hosts. Thus is established a linguistic and theological relationship between this passage and particularly the book of Leviticus.  

    It is interesting to notice that the symbols used to represent political powers are a ram and a he-goat (vs. 20-21), both of which are clean animals used as sacrificial victims. In chapter 7 the symbols are strange composite creatures. The term “horn” (qeren) reminds us of the horns on the four corners of the altar (cf. Lev 4:7), and “truth” could designate the instruction the priest handed over to the people (’emet, 8:12; cf. Mal 2:6). The term “transgression” (pešac, 8:12) is used in Leviticus 16:16 to designate sins expiated during the Day of Atonement. Several terms for “sanctuary” are used which are obviously terms employed in the context of the Israelite worship: mākôn (place) is used to designate God’s earthly (Isa 4:5) and heavenly sanctuaries (1 Kgs 8:39); and the same applies to miqdaš (“sanctuary”; Lev 26:2; Ps 68:33-35), and to qodeš (“sanctuary”; Exod 30:13; Ps 68:5). This last term is used in Leviticus 16: 2 to designate the Most Holy Place of the Israelite sanctuary that was cleansed during the day of atonement. The term “hosts” is used in the context of the tabernacle to refer to the Levitical guard (Num 4:3, 23). The verb “take away,” used by Daniel (8:11) is also used in Leviticus to designate the act of removing from the sacrifices the parts which belonged to God (e.g. Lev 4:10). The heavenly beings mentioned in 8:13 are called “holy ones” (qadôš), a rather strange way of referring to angels but which is used here to establish a connection with sanctuary terminology. The term hatāmîd (the continual, the daily) is used in the Old Testament to designate the daily work of the priest in the holy place. It is never used in connection with his work in the Most Holy Place.

    The fact that the “Prince of hosts” is a heavenly being (see Joshua 5:13-15) indicates that the sanctuary mentioned in 8:9-14 is the heavenly one, where he performed the tāmîd.  By using these terms Daniel is explicitly cementing a linguistic and ideological connection with the Israelite sanctuary. He presupposes that his readers are acquainted with the worship system, therefore he can use the vocabulary without explaining it. In order to interpret the vocabulary correctly one is forced to go to Leviticus to find out how that terminology is used there.  The use of language employed in the sanctuary services enables us to understand the work of the Prince of hosts, and the nature and work of the little horn. The political concerns of the horn are not ignored (v. 9-10), but the main concern is with its attitude toward the sanctuary and the Prince (vs. 11-12). The horn attacks the sanctuary guard, the host, defeats them (v. 10), and goes after the Prince and the sanctuary. This spiritual attack is described in terms of a military one. The tāmîd (the daily service) is taken away from the Prince, and the foundation/place of the sanctuary is cast down to the earth. Having done that the little horn sets up its own host in control of the tāmîd as an act of rebellion/transgression (v. 12). The “truth” associated with the sanctuary is disposed of by this anti-God power (cf. Dan 7:25). It is extremely important to notice that the language used by Daniel makes it clear that the little horn does not contaminate the sanctuary.  Daniel does not use a single term that could suggest the idea of contamination. What we have here is an attack on the sanctuary which profanes it (hālal; cf. 11:31), but does not contaminate it. The sanctuary is treated by the horn-power as a common place.  This discussion makes clear that the little horn affects somehow the work of the Prince in the holy place, that is to say the tāmîd (his continual mediation). The immediate question is, would the horn be able to interfere in any way with the mediatorial work of the Prince in the Most Holy Place, i.e. the cleansing of the sanctuary? This is the question addressed in 8:13-14.

    2. The Meaning of Nitsdaq in Daniel 8:14

    The verb nistdaq, a verbal form of the root tsadaqh, has been translated in different ways:  “shall be cleansed,” “shall be restored to its rightful state,”  “emerge victorious,” “be restored,” “be reconsecrated,” etc. Two particular reasons make it difficult to decide how to translate this verb here. First, the verbal form employed by Daniel is not used anywhere else in the Old Testament (simple passive [niphal] of tsadaq); and, second, the verbal root never takes as its object the sanctuary, except here. The basic verbal root (tsadaq) is usually translated “to be in the right, to have a just case, to be righteous.”  Interestingly, the root tsadaq is used in connection with the sanctuary, particularly in the book of Psalms. The individual who went to the temple and who had been loyal to the covenant was considered by the Lord to be righteous (24:3-6: cf. Deut 26:13-15). Those who participated in the sanctuary services were required to be blameless (tāmîm) and righteous (tsedeq), 15:1-2. To be blameless means here to be righteous. This righteousness was a gift from God (4:1; 17:1) and was impossible apart from atonement.

    The righteous one (tsaddîq) was a person whose sins had been forgiven by the Lord (32:1, 5, 11). This righteousness was granted in the temple through a priestly declaration (24:5).  Also righteous is the person who, in the setting of the sanctuary, was judged by God and declared innocent; the individual was vindicated (7:8-9; cf. 35:24-25). Accused of a crime he or she did not commit, the person went to the sanctuary asking God to judge him/her, to vindicate him/her. This use of the root tsadaq indicates that it is basically a legal term.  In the Psalms access to the sanctuary required righteousness on the part of the worshiper; in Leviticus cleanness was required (e.g. Lev 13:46; 14:1-20). To declare a person clean was tantamount to declaring him or her righteous. These two ideas, to be clean/to be righteous, are found together in Isaiah 53:11: “By his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant, make many to be accounted righteous [yatsdîq “he declares (them) righteous”]; and he shall bear their iniquities.” The many are declared righteous because the Servant removed their sins from them (cf. v. 12), that is to say, he cleansed them. To be declared righteous is the same as to be cleansed.  There is a theological and linguistic connection between to be righteous and to be clean in the context of the sanctuary. In fact the verb tsādāq is used in the Old Testament in synonymous parallelism with the verb tāhēr (be clean, pure), used in Leviticus 16 to designate the cleansing of the sanctuary (Job 4:17; 17:9); and also with the verb zākāh (“be pure, clean”; Ps 51:4; Job 15:14; 25:4).

    The noun tsedeq (righteousness) is also used in parallelism with bōr (“purity”; Ps 18:20). This indicates that the meaning of the root tsadaq includes the idea of cleansing and that this dimension of meaning is expressed particularly in the setting of the sanctuary services.  The root tsadaq played a significant role in the Israelite sanctuary services. Those services seem to have revolved around the concept of tsadaq: the worshiper entered the temple through “the gates of righteousness” (Ps 118:19); brought a “sacrifice of righteousness” (Ps 4:5; 51:19); and the priest, “clothed with righteousness” (132:9), interceded on behalf of the offerer before the Lord of righteousness (11:7). Consequently, the person received in the temple “righteousness from . . . God” (24:5).  Since the root tsadaq is used in the context of the sanctuary services, it should not surprise anyone to find it in Daniel 8:14, accompanied by a significant number of terms used in that same context. This suggests that nitsdaq should be interpreted in terms of its extended meaning in the sanctuary setting, which would be “to declare righteous” or “be vindicated,” “to be cleansed.” But how can this be said of the sanctuary? This would make sense only within the sanctuary services.  The sanctuary cannot be separated from the fact that it is God’s dwelling and that He meets there with His people to celebrate redemption and grant them atonement and forgiveness.  The nitsdaq of the sanctuary would then have an impact on the sanctuary itself—by cleansing it—and on God and His people, who would then be vindicated. Only such a rich root as tsadaq could express the ideas of cleansing and vindication, combining legal and redemptive concerns in a sanctuary setting bringing the resolution of the sin problem to its consummation.

    The verb tāhēr (to cleanse, purify), with its emphasis on cleansing in the context of the Israelite sanctuary, was too narrow to be used in the cosmic setting of this apocalyptic vision which deals with the final cleansing of the heavenly sanctuary and with the ultimate cosmic vindication of God and His people.  The article suggests that the nitsdaq of the sanctuary redresses the damage done to the sanctuary by the little horn. What is overlooked here is that the verbal root tsadaq does not mean “to reconsecrate,” and neither is it used to designate the restoration of a building or of its use. It is rather used with respect to people who are vindicated, whose right is restored to them. What the text is saying is that the little horn’s control over the tāmîd (the daily) would come to an end at a particular moment of time, that is to say, when the cleansing/vindication of the sanctuary will be taking place.  The logical question is, why would the heavenly sanctuary need to be cleansed? The answer is found in what took place during the day of atonement in the Israelite sanctuary (Lev 16). Notice that Daniel 8 mentions the tāmîd (the daily) but we are not told what it is or why it is important. We found the meaning and significance of the term by studying its usage in the Israelite sanctuary. This is what needs to be done with the purification/vindication of the sanctuary mentioned in 8:14. But before we do that let us deal with the time period.  The 2300 Evenings and Mornings: The answer to the question, “Until when . . .?” is given as, “Until 2300 Evenings and Mornings, then the sanctuary would be cleansed/vindicated.” The phrase “evenings and mornings” is used only in one other place in the Bible, namely, Genesis 1, to designate each day during Creation week (e.g. vs. 5, Cool. The 2300 evenings and mornings are a period of 2300 prophetic days which represents 2300 years.  

    The beginning of this prophetic period is suggested by the question itself: “Until when the vision, the daily/continuance, and the transgression causing horror, to make both the sanctuary and the host a trampling?” (v. 13). This literal translation differs from others in that it separates the noun “vision” (hāzôn) from “daily.” Most versions consider these two nouns to be in a very close relationship and translate them, “the vision of the daily,” limiting the question to the period during which the little horn was active. But the Hebrew text does not allow for this. (The first noun is in the absolute state; it has an article and long vowels.) It rather suggests that a comma be placed after tāmîd, “daily.” The term hāzôn (vision) is used in verses 1-2 to refer to the vision of the different animals. The question, then, is interested not only in the period during which the horn is active but also in the period of time that will take the whole vision to be fulfilled (vs. 112).  This implies that the 2300 days/years should begin to be counted from the time during which the ram was active, that is, from the time of the Medo-Persian empire (v. 20). The vision will run from that time until the moment when the cleansing of the heavenly sanctuary begins.  In looking for a more specific date for the beginning of the 2300 years the connection between Daniel 8 and 9 is very important. There are clear connections in terms between both chapters. In Daniel 9:23 Gabriel tells the prophet, “Understand the vision” (mar’eh).

    The term mar’eh (vision, appearance), is the same one used in 8:26-27 to refer to “the vision of the evenings and mornings” the part of the hāzôn, vision of chapter 8 which had to do with the time period. Gabriel interpreted the vision to Daniel except the audition concerning the 2300 years. At the end of chapter 8 Daniel stated that he did not understand the mar’eh. In chapter 9 Gabriel came to assist Daniel in understanding the mar’eh (vision) of the time period. Notice that in both chapters the verb “understand” is used (8:23-27; 9:1, 22-23) and that there is a common concern for the sanctuary. In 9:24 the sanctuary is dedicated and its services began and in 8:14 the sanctuary is being cleansed. The time prophecy of the 70 weeks forms part of the 2300 years.  The verb “decree” in 9:24 also means “to cut off.” That is one of the meanings of the verb hatak (at least in Mishnaic Hebrew and in texts found in the Canaanite city of Ugarit [1300 BC]). The implication is that the 490 years were “cut off” from the 2300 years period. The 490 years began with the decree of Artaxerxes in 457 BC to rebuild Jerusalem. That is also the starting point for the 2300 years. The end point of that period would fall in A. D. 1844. It is then that the sanctuary will be cleansed/vindicated. It is at this particular time within salvation history that Christ begins the second aspect of his mediatorial work in the heavenly sanctuary mentioned in Hebrews 9:23 (see the last section of this paper).

    3. Daniel 7:9-10, 13-14, 26-27: Judgment Scene

    Daniel 7 contains an important judgment scene which, as we will show, parallels the sanctuary audition in 8:13-14. The judgment scene describes the initiation of the judgment (vs. 9-10), its conclusion (v. 13-14), and a short interpretation (vs. 26-27).  The prophet saw thrones set in place for the members of the court to sit on. The wheeled throne of God was there, too. He appeared under the symbol of an Ancient of Days and sat on His throne. The books were opened before the court, one like a Son of Man came to the Ancient of Days, decisions were made, and the Son of man and the saints of the Most High received the kingdom.  (1) Time of the judgment scene. In order to understand the function and purpose of this judgment it is important to establish clearly its place within the sequence of events in the vision. Daniel saw four beasts: one like a lion (v. 4), one like a bear (v. 5), another like a leopard (v. 6), and the fourth one was indescribable and had ten horns (v. 7). Daniel saw another horn coming out and uprooting three of the others. This little horn spoke against God, persecuted the saints for 3 1/2 times (360 x 3 + 180 = 1260 days/years), and changed or attempted to change the law and the times (v. 25).  The judgment scene is introduced when the little horn was actively speaking great words against God (v. 11, 25). It had been persecuting the saints already for 3 1/2 times. The judgment takes place toward the end of the reign of terror of the little horn. In fact, as a result of the judgment the little horn lost its dominion and was destroyed. It is also after the judgment that the Son of man and the saints received God’s eternal kingdom (v. 27). The vision moves from persecution of the saints to judgment to the kingdom of God.

    The judgment described in Daniel 7 takes place before the little horn is destroyed and the kingdom of God is established for ever.  (2) Investigative Judgment. Several elements in the vision indicate that this is an investigative judgment, not an executive one, and that it takes place in heaven. In fact, the judgment scene is a heavenly one. God is there together with His council. In addition, thousands of His messengers are present to serve Him and to witness the judgment. The cosmic nature of this judgment is thus  emphasized. The universe is interested in these proceedings.  The investigative nature of this judgment is clearly expressed by the reference to books (v. 10). These contain the records of the lives of those who would be judged. They are not there in person but the records of their lives are there and they are being scrutinized. There are several references to celestial books in the Old Testament, all of them associated with God’s people. The righteous ones are listed there (Ps 69:28). Record is kept of their prenatal lives and of the length of their lives (139:16), their personal conflicts and struggles (56:Cool, their words and thoughts (Mal 3:16), their good deeds (cf. Neh 13:14), and their sins also are recorded there (109:14; cf. Isa 65:6). Those sins can be blotted out of those records (109:4) although in some cases the name of the impenitent sinner is blotted out (Exod 32:32-33; Ps 69:28); in both instances the records would have been cleansed. Isaiah describes the remnant left in Jerusalem to enjoy the messianic era as those who were recorded for life (4:3). This took place after God cleansed them. In the New Testament the book of life is mentioned a number of times. It contains the names of those who committed themselves to the Lord (Phil 4:3; Rev 3:5; 13:8; 17:8; 20:12, 15) and is called the Lamb’s book of life (Rev 21:27). Records also are kept of the wicked ones to be used to judge and condemn them after the millennium (Rev 20:12).  

    The records discussed in the judgment scene in Daniel 7 are the records of God’s servants. They were being judged and the court decided in their favor (7:22). They were vindicated before the universe and they could now possess the kingdom. This is confirmed by comparing this judgment scene with Daniel 12:1-2. Michael stands up to receive the kingdom of glory. This was preceded by the defeat and destruction of the enemy from the north (11:45). Then the saints are delivered and a resurrection takes place. Those resurrected to eternal life have their names written in the book (12:1). This suggests that the investigative judgment examines also the records of those who died trusting the Lord. Their names were investigated and retained in the books because their sins were blotted out from the records forever. They, together with those who were delivered from the persecuting powers, can inherit eternal life.   The judgment discussed in Daniel 7 is a vindicative judgment which declares the righteous ones worthy of inheriting the kingdom of God. This is done before the council of God, before the Son of man, before the universe. The deliberations of this court are opened to God’s intelligent creatures; God’s judicial decisions are being observed by those who are not necessarily members of the court. This serves to vindicate God’s government, the way life has dealt with sin and salvation, His actions before His vast universe. In this judgment God is also vindicated (cf. Ps 51:4).

    The little horn is not judged in the sense in which the saints are judged, but it is condemned. Here we must be reminded of the biblical understanding of legal proceedings particularly in the context of innocent persons being falsely accused of a crime. They went to the temple court asking the Lord to judge them (Ps 7:8; 26:1), to examine their cases in order to be vindicated (7:9; 26:2). The wicked one functioned as the accuser in the court (cf. Zech 3:1-4; Ps 35:1). The vindication of the righteous ones confirmed the evilness of the wicked and in order to restore them the one causing the disruption was neutralized, condemned, and his or her power removed. This is what we seem to have in Daniel 7.

    4. Meaning of the Cleansing/Vindication of the Sanctuary in Daniel

    There is a clear connection between the judgment scene in Daniel 7 and the audition concerning the heavenly sanctuary in 8:13-14. The two chapters describe in parallel form the history of the world from the prophet’s time to the time of the end. Each chapter adds new elements throwing light on the nature of the great controversy and on specific events within salvation history. The investigative judgment and the cleansing of the sanctuary complement each other, enriching our understanding of Christ’s mediatorial work in the heavenly sanctuary shortly before the Second Coming.  The book of Daniel looks forward to the time when the salvation of God’s people will be final. They are already the saints of the Most High. They received the cleansing benefits of the sacrificial death of the Messiah (9:24, 27) and He can, therefore, represent them in the heavenly court (7:13-14, 18). Yet, their cleansing and salvation is heading toward its final consummation. The vindication/purification of the sanctuary mentioned in Daniel 8:14 is what makes the vindication/purification of God’s people final before the universe. Their sins will be blotted out from God’s dwelling and they will inherit the eternal kingdom of God.  During the day of atonement God judged His people. The vindication/purification of the sanctuary in Daniel includes also a work of judgment.

    As we indicated, the verb used by Daniel to refer to the cleansing of the sanctuary (tsadaq) is primarily a legal term. In it legal and cultic aspects are brought together, making it possible to interpret the priestly work of the Prince in juridical-redemptive terms. This judgment seeks primarily to vindicate God’s people. This is developed in Daniel 7. There the saints were judged and acquitted. They remained in an attitude of complete dependence on God under the most distressing circumstances. The record of their lives was examined and their sins blotted out. Those whose names were preserved in the books, including the dead saints, inherited the kingdom (7:22; 12:1-2). Thus the sanctuary is cleansed.  The priestly ministry of the Prince, mentioned in 8:11, was performed on behalf of God’s people. It was an intercessory ministry which granted forgiveness of sin. The purification of the sanctuary, referred to in 8:14, will make it clear that the involvement of the sanctuary in the sin problem was an effective way of disposing of the sin problem and that the transfer of sin to the sanctuary in no way affected God’s character. The cosmic judgment in Daniel 7 points precisely to this dimension of God’s concern for His own reputation and for the holiness of His dwelling place. The final resolution of the sin problem takes place before God’s creatures and they are allowed to open the books and examine them. As a result of this process the instrument of salvation, the Son of man, is recognized as universal king (v. 14). God’s contact with sin then comes to an end; the sanctuary was cleansed/vindicated.

    5.  Day of Atonement in Hebrews

    In Hebrews there are clear references to the Israelite Day of Atonement. This is particularly the case in 9:25-26; 10:1-10. In these two passages the sacrifice of Christ and those offered during that day are contrasted. Christ’s sacrifice is described as unrepeatable and His blood as superior to the blood/sacrifice offered by the high priest in the earthly sanctuary during the Day of Atonement. Hebrews 9:25 states that He does not have to offer Himself again and again and 10:11 adds that He did that “once and for all.” The comparison is not between the ministry of the high priest in the Most Holy Place and Christ’s work in the heavenly sanctuary but between the effectiveness of Christ’s blood/sacrifice and the limited function of animal blood in the old system.  The purpose of the references to the Day of Atonement in Hebrews is, then, to contrast Christ’s sacrifice with those of the Old Testament (7:27; 10:11), including the ones offered during the day of atonement, in order to show the superiority of the sacrifice of our Lord.  Hebrews 9:23 is a very significant passage in a discussion of the typological meaning of the Day of Atonement in the earthly sanctuary. Scholars have been surprised by the statement made by the apostle that the heavenly things need to be purified. However, it is not difficult to interpret this passage once it is recognized that the reference is to the Day of Atonement.

    There is here a clear indication to the effect that Christ is to perform in the heavenly sanctuary a work of cleansing that is the typological equivalent of the work of the high priest in the earthly sanctuary during the Day of Atonement. The passage does not state that this cleansing takes place immediately after Christ’s ascension. It simply states the important fact that the heavenly sanctuary also is in need of cleansing. It was in need of cleansing when the epistle was being written. This symbolism is not developed, neither is the time element discussed. Nevertheless, the connection is significant because it recognizes the fact that Christ’s mediatorial work encompasses the theological content of the annual services in the Israelite sanctuary. In addition, the context suggests that the cleansing of the heavenly sanctuary is connected with Christ’s death on the cross as sin bearer (vs. 26, 28) and with His work before the Father on behalf of His people (v. 25). At the cross He offered Himself for us and His blood is powerful enough to bring the sin problem to an end. He ministers for us in the heavenly sanctuary, applying the benefits of His sacrificial blood to those who believe and consummating our salvation through His work of judgment.  The work of Christ on the cross and in the heavenly sanctuary should be our constant object of study. Every church member should explore the wondrous love of God revealed to us in Christ and in what He has done, is doing, and will do for us.  







    Last edited by orthodoxymoron on Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:54 am; edited 7 times in total
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    RedEzra

    Posts : 559
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    Re: Bible

    Post  RedEzra on Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:07 am

    I will bring to your attention something written over 2500 years ago in the precious Scriptures of the Jews which we know as the Old Testament.


    "The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, 'Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.'" - Isaiah 40:3

    That word in all capital letters is the english translation of the Hebrew word יהוה‎ which is YHWH in the latin script. Somebody is crying in the wilderness to prepare the way for YHWH.

    And that one is of course John the Baptist over 500 years later who prepared the way for Jesus the Messiah (Christ).


    "But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed." - Isaiah 53:5





    Why is Jesus in a psalm of David written about 3000 years ago ?


    "I am poured out like water,
               And all my bones are out of joint;
               My heart is like wax;
               It is melted within me.

         My strength is dried up like a potsherd,
               And my tongue cleaves to my jaws;
               And You lay me in the dust of death.

         For dogs have surrounded me;
               A band of evildoers has encompassed me;
               They pierced my hands and my feet.

         I can count all my bones.
               They look, they stare at me;

         They divide my garments among them,
               And for my clothing they cast lots."



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    RedEzra

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    Re: Bible

    Post  RedEzra on Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:41 am


    "You brood of vipers ! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come ?"

    Those were the words of welcome from John to the people who came to be baptized by him in the river Jordan. Not exactly politically correct by today's standards... nevertheless John was the greatest human being ever born according to Jesus.

    "Truly I tell you, among those born of women there has risen no one greater than John the Baptist. Yet even the least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he." - Matthew 11:11

    John was of course not the greatest human being because of his temper tantrums... but because he was chosen to prepare the way for the ministry of God Almighty Himself.
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    RedEzra

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    Re: Bible

    Post  RedEzra on Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:03 am


    "Now in the synagogue there was a man who had a spirit of an unclean demon. And he cried out with a loud voice,saying, 'Let us alone! What have we to do with You, Jesus of Nazareth? Did You come to destroy us? I know who You are—the Holy One of God!' But Jesus rebuked him, saying, 'Be quiet, and come out of him!' And when the demon had thrown him in their midst, it came out of him and did not hurt him." - Luke 4:33-35




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    orthodoxymoron

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    Re: Bible

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:13 pm








    I think I might be irreversibly-lost in more ways than I can imagine, and I don't know how this happened. Everyone has a different version of the problems and the solutions. Let me simply suggest (and even plead) that some of us read the following three groups of Scripture (side by side, straight-through, over and over): 1. Job through Isaiah. 2. Jeremiah through Daniel. 3. Luke through Jude. Compare this study with reading the following three groups of Scripture (side by side, straight-through, over and over): 1. Genesis through Esther. 2. Job through Malachi. 3. Matthew through Revelation. What Would Emilio Knechtle Say?? What Would Billy Graham Say?? What Would Jesus Christ Say?? What Would the Apostle Paul Say?? What Would the Jesus Seminar Say?? What Would Desmond Ford Say?? What Would Fulton Sheen Say?? What Would John Dominic Crossan Say?? What Would Richard Carrier Say?? What Would Gabriel, Michael, and Lucifer Say?? What Would Our Father Who Art in Heaven Say?? What Would the Beast Supercomputer Say?? What Would David Bowman Say?? What Would Peter Venkman Say?? What Would the Masons Say?? What Would the Nazis Say?? What Would the Jesuits Say?? What Would Donald Trump Say?? What Would Vladimir Putin Say??

    I recently encountered a Sweet and Sexy Russian-Lady Wearing a Crucifix-Necklace, and I wondered who she might be, and what she might be all about?! Who is REALLY Right?? Who is REALLY Wrong?? I think I might be irreversibly and simultaneously right and wrong in more ways than I can imagine, and I don't know how this happened. Everyone has a different version of right and wrong, problems and solutions. Is '42' really the answer to life, the universe, and everything?? This post makes me VERY SAD. Honesty Does NOT Necessarily Promote Spirituality. What is the Relationship Between Faith and Honesty?? Are They Complementary or Contradictory?? Should One Simply Have Simple Faith In What the Church-Leaders Preach?? Is Theological-Research of the Devil?? Think Long and Hard About What I Just Said. No one usually responds to my posts on various threads, but I've gotten used to that, and I'm OK with talking to myself (online and in real-life)!! It's easier that way!!

    As an alternative to reading the Bible straight-through, over and over OR reading Proof-Passages (here a little, there a little), consider reading Job through Daniel side by side with Luke through Jude -- straight-through, over and over. This reflects my biases regarding theological and devotional importance, which might be flawed, yet I still think this approach is somewhat legitimate, especially if each group is used to interpret itself, rather than being interpreted or vetoed by 'outsiders'!! I'm not sure the Bible really teaches what the teachers and preachers teach and preach!! The Bible can be made to say just about anything!! Each church picks and chooses certain passages to make their case for a doctrinal-statement, which then becomes the gold-standard for their particular organization. This is probably organizationally-expedient, yet the real-truth probably gets crucified in the process. A proper commentary covering the two groups mentioned would be necessary to provide a proper context, yet most commentaries use other portions of scripture to interpret and apply the content of each group.

    Each church has a 'System'. I keep wondering why the 28 Fundamental Beliefs of ALL Christian Churches aren't the 28 Fundamental Teachings of Jesus?? I include the following because of my background -- and because it is representative of Reformed Protestant Beliefs (although many Protestants might protest this assertion). This is intended to make us think. But really, most believers don't wish to have anyone meddle with their faith -- and most unbelievers don't wish to discuss beliefs. Period. Where are the objective, open, fair, and honest researchers?????? Notice Belief 16 ('The Lord's Supper') where there seems to be 'Real-Presence' language!! 'Heirs of the Reformation'?? Really?? What Would Luther Say?? I have repeatedly hinted that ALL Churches have-been (and are) run by the same Hidden-PTB ('The Spirit Behind the Church'??) -- and that each church is sort of like a 'Franchise' under 'Umbrella-Ownership'!! If so -- perhaps things must be this way -- so as to effectively manage the insanity of humanity. Who Knows?? Damned If I Know. That's Why I Whisper, Rather Than Shout...

    Are the Teachings of Jesus exclusively the Red-Letters found in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John?? Are the Teachings of Jesus the Genuine Pauline-Epistles?? Are the Teachings of Jesus the Red-Letters (including the first chapters of Revelation) plus the Genuine Pauline-Epistles?? Are the Teachings of Jesus the Entire New-Testament?? I've suggested the possibility that reading Job through Daniel (straight-through, over and over) might be necessary to properly understand the Whole-Bible. There's no book of the Bible titled 'The 28 Fundamental Beliefs of Seventh-day Adventists'. Where are the 'Latin Mass' and the 'Novus Ordo Mass' found in the Whole-Bible?? Why didn't the Historical Jesus write the New Testament?? Why isn't the New Testament a Positively-Reinforcing Old-Testament Commentary?? What Was the Perfect Law of the Lord prior to the Garden of Eden and the Book of Genesis?? I've suggested the possibility that Science-Fictional Possibility-Thinking must mate with Scholarly-Theology, especially regarding the Origin and Possible-Termination of Humanity As We Know It. This is Nasty-Territory. Researchers Beware!!


    28 Fundamental Beliefs of Seventh-day Adventists
    http://www.adventist.org/beliefs/fundamental/index.html

    Seventh-day Adventists accept the Bible as their only creed and hold certain fundamental beliefs to be the teaching of the Holy Scriptures. These beliefs, as set forth here, constitute the church's understanding and expression of the teaching of Scripture. Revision of these statements may be expected at a General Conference session when the church is led by the Holy Spirit to a fuller understanding of Bible truth or finds better language in which to express the teachings of God's Holy Word.

    1. Holy Scriptures:

    The Holy Scriptures, Old and New Testaments, are the written Word of God, given by divine inspiration through holy men of God who spoke and wrote as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. In this Word, God has committed to man the knowledge necessary for salvation. The Holy Scriptures are the infallible revelation of His will. They are the standard of character, the test of experience, the authoritative revealer of doctrines, and the trustworthy record of God's acts in history. (2 Peter 1:20, 21; 2 Tim. 3:16, 17; Ps. 119:105; Prov. 30:5, 6; Isa. 8:20; John 17:17; 1 Thess. 2:13; Heb. 4:12.)

    2. Trinity:

    There is one God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, a unity of three co-eternal Persons. God is immortal, all-powerful, all-knowing, above all, and ever present. He is infinite and beyond human comprehension, yet known through His self-revelation. He is forever worthy of worship, adoration, and service by the whole creation. (Deut. 6:4; Matt. 28:19; 2 Cor. 13:14; Eph. 4:4-6; 1 Peter 1:2; 1 Tim. 1:17; Rev. 14:7.)


    3. Father:

    God the eternal Father is the Creator, Source, Sustainer, and Sovereign of all creation. He is just and holy, merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness. The qualities and powers exhibited in the Son and the Holy Spirit are also revelations of the Father. (Gen. 1:1; Rev. 4:11; 1 Cor. 15:28; John 3:16; 1 John 4:8; 1 Tim. 1:17; Ex. 34:6, 7; John 14:9.)

    4. Son:

    God the eternal Son became incarnate in Jesus Christ. Through Him all things were created, the character of God is revealed, the salvation of humanity is accomplished, and the world is judged. Forever truly God, He became also truly man, Jesus the Christ. He was conceived of the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary. He lived and experienced temptation as a human being, but perfectly exemplified the righteousness and love of God. By His miracles He manifested God's power and was attested as God's promised Messiah. He suffered and died voluntarily on the cross for our sins and in our place, was raised from the dead, and ascended to minister in the heavenly sanctuary in our behalf. He will come again in glory for the final deliverance of His people and the restoration of all things. (John 1:1-3, 14; Col. 1:15-19; John 10:30; 14:9; Rom. 6:23; 2 Cor. 5:17-19; John 5:22; Luke 1:35; Phil. 2:5-11; Heb. 2:9-18; 1 Cor. 15:3, 4; Heb. 8:1, 2; John 14:1-3.)

    5. Holy Spirit:

    God the eternal Spirit was active with the Father and the Son in Creation, incarnation, and redemption. He inspired the writers of Scripture. He filled Christ's life with power. He draws and convicts human beings; and those who respond He renews and transforms into the image of God. Sent by the Father and the Son to be always with His children, He extends spiritual gifts to the church, empowers it to bear witness to Christ, and in harmony with the Scriptures leads it into all truth. (Gen. 1:1, 2; Luke 1:35; 4:18; Acts 10:38; 2 Peter 1:21; 2 Cor. 3:18; Eph. 4:11, 12; Acts 1:8; John 14:16-18, 26; 15:26, 27; 16:7-13.)

    6. Creation:

    God is Creator of all things, and has revealed in Scripture the authentic account of His creative activity. In six days the Lord made "the heaven and the earth" and all living things upon the earth, and rested on the seventh day of that first week. Thus He established the Sabbath as a perpetual memorial of His completed creative work. The first man and woman were made in the image of God as the crowning work of Creation, given dominion over the world, and charged with responsibility to care for it. When the world was finished it was ``very good,'' declaring the glory of God. (Gen. 1; 2; Ex. 20:8-11; Ps. 19:1-6; 33:6, 9; 104; Heb. 11:3.)

    7. Nature of Man:

    Man and woman were made in the image of God with individuality, the power and freedom to think and to do. Though created free beings, each is an indivisible unity of body, mind, and spirit, dependent upon God for life and breath and all else. When our first parents disobeyed God, they denied their dependence upon Him and fell from their high position under God. The image of God in them was marred and they became subject to death. Their descendants share this fallen nature and its consequences. They are born with weaknesses and tendencies to evil. But God in Christ reconciled the world to Himself and by His Spirit restores in penitent mortals the image of their Maker. Created for the glory of God, they are called to love Him and one another, and to care for their environment. (Gen. 1:26-28; 2:7; Ps. 8:4-8; Acts 17:24-28; Gen. 3; Ps. 51:5; Rom. 5:12-17; 2 Cor. 5:19, 20; Ps. 51:10; 1 John 4:7, 8, 11, 20; Gen. 2:15.)

    8. Great Controversy:

    All humanity is now involved in a great controversy between Christ and Satan regarding the character of God, His law, and His sovereignty over the universe. This conflict originated in heaven when a created being, endowed with freedom of choice, in self-exaltation became Satan, God's adversary, and led into rebellion a portion of the angels. He introduced the spirit of rebellion into this world when he led Adam and Eve into sin. This human sin resulted in the distortion of the image of God in humanity, the disordering of the created world, and its eventual devastation at the time of the worldwide flood. Observed by the whole creation, this world became the arena of the universal conflict, out of which the God of love will ultimately be vindicated. To assist His people in this controversy, Christ sends the Holy Spirit and the loyal angels to guide, protect, and sustain them in the way of salvation. (Rev. 12:4-9; Isa. 14:12-14; Eze. 28:12-18; Gen. 3; Rom. 1:19-32; 5:12-21; 8:19-22; Gen. 6-8; 2 Peter 3:6; 1 Cor. 4:9; Heb. 1:14.)

    9. Life, Death, and Resurrection of Christ:

    In Christ's life of perfect obedience to God's will, His suffering, death, and resurrection, God provided the only means of atonement for human sin, so that those who by faith accept this atonement may have eternal life, and the whole creation may better understand the infinite and holy love of the Creator. This perfect atonement vindicates the righteousness of God's law and the graciousness of His character; for it both condemns our sin and provides for our forgiveness. The death of Christ is substitutionary and expiatory, reconciling and transforming. The resurrection of Christ proclaims God's triumph over the forces of evil, and for those who accept the atonement assures their final victory over sin and death. It declares the Lordship of Jesus Christ, before whom every knee in heaven and on earth will bow. (John 3:16; Isa. 53; 1 Peter 2:21, 22; 1 Cor. 15:3, 4, 20-22; 2 Cor. 5:14, 15, 19-21; Rom. 1:4; 3:25; 4:25; 8:3, 4; 1 John 2:2; 4:10; Col. 2:15; Phil. 2:6-11.)

    10. Experience of Salvation:

    In infinite love and mercy God made Christ, who knew no sin, to be sin for us, so that in Him we might be made the righteousness of God. Led by the Holy Spirit we sense our need, acknowledge our sinfulness, repent of our transgressions, and exercise faith in Jesus as Lord and Christ, as Substitute and Example. This faith which receives salvation comes through the divine power of the Word and is the gift of God's grace. Through Christ we are justified, adopted as God's sons and daughters, and delivered from the lordship of sin. Through the Spirit we are born again and sanctified; the Spirit renews our minds, writes God's law of love in our hearts, and we are given the power to live a holy life. Abiding in Him we become partakers of the divine nature and have the assurance of salvation now and in the judgment. (2 Cor. 5:17-21; John 3:16; Gal. 1:4; 4:4-7; Titus 3:3-7; John 16:8; Gal. 3:13, 14; 1 Peter 2:21, 22; Rom. 10:17; Luke 17:5; Mark 9:23, 24; Eph. 2:5-10; Rom. 3:21-26; Col. 1:13, 14; Rom. 8:14-17; Gal. 3:26; John 3:3-8; 1 Peter 1:23; Rom. 12:2; Heb. 8:7-12; Eze. 36:25-27; 2 Peter 1:3, 4; Rom. 8:1-4; 5:6-10.)

    11. Growing in Christ:

    By His death on the cross Jesus triumphed over the forces of evil. He who subjugated the demonic spirits during His earthly ministry has broken their power and made certain their ultimate doom. Jesus' victory gives us victory over the evil forces that still seek to control us, as we walk with Him in peace, joy, and assurance of His love. Now the Holy Spirit dwells within us and empowers us. Continually committed to Jesus as our Saviour and Lord, we are set free from the burden of our past deeds. No longer do we live in the darkness, fear of evil powers, ignorance, and meaninglessness of our former way of life. In this new freedom in Jesus, we are called to grow into the likeness of His character, communing with Him daily in prayer, feeding on His Word, meditating on it and on His providence, singing His praises, gathering together for worship, and participating in the mission of the Church. As we give ourselves in loving service to those around us and in witnessing to His salvation, His constant presence with us through the Spirit transforms every moment and every task into a spiritual experience. (Ps 1:1, 2; 23:4; 77:11, 12; Col 1:13, 14; 2:6, 14, 15; Luke 10:17-20; Eph 5:19, 20; 6:12-18; 1 Thess 5:23; 2 Peter 2:9; 3:18; 2 Cor. 3:17, 18; Phil 3:7-14; 1 Thess 5:16-18; Matt 20:25-28; John 20:21; Gal 5:22-25; Rom 8:38, 39; 1 John 4:4; Heb 10:25.)

    12. Church:

    The church is the community of believers who confess Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour. In continuity with the people of God in Old Testament times, we are called out from the world; and we join together for worship, for fellowship, for instruction in the Word, for the celebration of the Lord's Supper, for service to all mankind, and for the worldwide proclamation of the gospel. The church derives its authority from Christ, who is the incarnate Word, and from the Scriptures, which are the written Word. The church is God's family; adopted by Him as children, its members live on the basis of the new covenant. The church is the body of Christ, a community of faith of which Christ Himself is the Head. The church is the bride for whom Christ died that He might sanctify and cleanse her. At His return in triumph, He will present her to Himself a glorious church, the faithful of all the ages, the purchase of His blood, not having spot or wrinkle, but holy and without blemish. (Gen. 12:3; Acts 7:38; Eph. 4:11-15; 3:8-11; Matt. 28:19, 20; 16:13-20; 18:18; Eph. 2:19-22; 1:22, 23; 5:23-27; Col. 1:17, 18.)

    13. Remnant and Its Mission:

    The universal church is composed of all who truly believe in Christ, but in the last days, a time of widespread apostasy, a remnant has been called out to keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. This remnant announces the arrival of the judgment hour, proclaims salvation through Christ, and heralds the approach of His second advent. This proclamation is symbolized by the three angels of Revelation 14; it coincides with the work of judgment in heaven and results in a work of repentance and reform on earth. Every believer is called to have a personal part in this worldwide witness. (Rev. 12:17; 14:6-12; 18:1-4; 2 Cor. 5:10; Jude 3, 14; 1 Peter 1:16-19; 2 Peter 3:10-14; Rev. 21:1-14.)

    14. Unity in the Body of Christ:

    The church is one body with many members, called from every nation, kindred, tongue, and people. In Christ we are a new creation; distinctions of race, culture, learning, and nationality, and differences between high and low, rich and poor, male and female, must not be divisive among us. We are all equal in Christ, who by one Spirit has bonded us into one fellowship with Him and with one another; we are to serve and be served without partiality or reservation. Through the revelation of Jesus Christ in the Scriptures we share the same faith and hope, and reach out in one witness to all. This unity has its source in the oneness of the triune God, who has adopted us as His children. (Rom. 12:4, 5; 1 Cor. 12:12-14; Matt. 28:19, 20; Ps. 133:1; 2 Cor. 5:16, 17; Acts 17:26, 27; Gal. 3:27, 29; Col. 3:10-15; Eph. 4:14-16; 4:1-6; John 17:20-23.)

    15. Baptism:

    By baptism we confess our faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, and testify of our death to sin and of our purpose to walk in newness of life. Thus we acknowledge Christ as Lord and Saviour, become His people, and are received as members by His church. Baptism is a symbol of our union with Christ, the forgiveness of our sins, and our reception of the Holy Spirit. It is by immersion in water and is contingent on an affirmation of faith in Jesus and evidence of repentance of sin. It follows instruction in the Holy Scriptures and acceptance of their teachings. (Rom. 6:1-6; Col. 2:12, 13; Acts 16:30-33; 22:16; 2:38; Matt. 28:19, 20.)

    16. Lord's Supper:

    The Lord's Supper is a participation in the emblems of the body and blood of Jesus as an expression of faith in Him, our Lord and Saviour. In this experience of communion Christ is present to meet and strengthen His people. As we partake, we joyfully proclaim the Lord's death until He comes again. Preparation for the Supper includes self-examination, repentance, and confession. The Master ordained the service of foot washing to signify renewed cleansing, to express a willingness to serve one another in Christlike humility, and to unite our hearts in love. The communion service is open to all believing Christians. (1 Cor. 10:16, 17; 11:23-30; Matt. 26:17-30; Rev. 3:20; John 6:48-63; 13:1-17.)

    17. Spiritual Gifts and Ministries:

    God bestows upon all members of His church in every age spiritual gifts which each member is to employ in loving ministry for the common good of the church and of humanity. Given by the agency of the Holy Spirit, who apportions to each member as He wills, the gifts provide all abilities and ministries needed by the church to fulfill its divinely ordained functions. According to the Scriptures, these gifts include such ministries as faith, healing, prophecy, proclamation, teaching, administration, reconciliation, compassion, and self-sacrificing service and charity for the help and encouragement of people. Some members are called of God and endowed by the Spirit for functions recognized by the church in pastoral, evangelistic, apostolic, and teaching ministries particularly needed to equip the members for service, to build up the church to spiritual maturity, and to foster unity of the faith and knowledge of God. When members employ these spiritual gifts as faithful stewards of God's varied grace, the church is protected from the destructive influence of false doctrine, grows with a growth that is from God, and is built up in faith and love. (Rom. 12:4-8; 1 Cor. 12:9-11, 27, 28; Eph. 4:8, 11-16; Acts 6:1-7; 1 Tim. 3:1-13; 1 Peter 4:10, 11.)

    18. The Gift of Prophecy:

    One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)

    19. Law of God:

    The great principles of God's law are embodied in the Ten Commandments and exemplified in the life of Christ. They express God's love, will, and purposes concerning human conduct and relationships and are binding upon all people in every age. These precepts are the basis of God's covenant with His people and the standard in God's judgment. Through the agency of the Holy Spirit they point out sin and awaken a sense of need for a Saviour. Salvation is all of grace and not of works, but its fruitage is obedience to the Commandments. This obedience develops Christian character and results in a sense of well-being. It is an evidence of our love for the Lord and our concern for our fellow men. The obedience of faith demonstrates the power of Christ to transform lives, and therefore strengthens Christian witness. (Ex. 20:1-17; Ps. 40:7, 8; Matt. 22:36-40; Deut. 28:1-14; Matt. 5:17-20; Heb. 8:8-10; John 15:7-10; Eph. 2:8-10; 1 John 5:3; Rom. 8:3, 4; Ps. 19:7-14.)

    20. Sabbath:

    The beneficent Creator, after the six days of Creation, rested on the seventh day and instituted the Sabbath for all people as a memorial of Creation. The fourth commandment of God's unchangeable law requires the observance of this seventh-day Sabbath as the day of rest, worship, and ministry in harmony with the teaching and practice of Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath. The Sabbath is a day of delightful communion with God and one another. It is a symbol of our redemption in Christ, a sign of our sanctification, a token of our allegiance, and a foretaste of our eternal future in God's kingdom. The Sabbath is God's perpetual sign of His eternal covenant between Him and His people. Joyful observance of this holy time from evening to evening, sunset to sunset, is a celebration of God's creative and redemptive acts. (Gen. 2:1-3; Ex. 20:8-11; Luke 4:16; Isa. 56:5, 6; 58:13, 14; Matt. 12:1-12; Ex. 31:13-17; Eze. 20:12, 20; Deut. 5:12-15; Heb. 4:1-11; Lev. 23:32; Mark 1:32.)

    21. Stewardship:

    We are God's stewards, entrusted by Him with time and opportunities, abilities and possessions, and the blessings of the earth and its resources. We are responsible to Him for their proper use. We acknowledge God's ownership by faithful service to Him and our fellow men, and by returning tithes and giving offerings for the proclamation of His gospel and the support and growth of His church. Stewardship is a privilege given to us by God for nurture in love and the victory over selfishness and covetousness. The steward rejoices in the blessings that come to others as a result of his faithfulness. (Gen. 1:26-28; 2:15; 1 Chron. 29:14; Haggai 1:3-11; Mal. 3:8-12; 1 Cor. 9:9-14; Matt. 23:23; 2 Cor. 8:1-15; Rom. 15:26, 27.)

    22. Christian Behavior:

    We are called to be a godly people who think, feel, and act in harmony with the principles of heaven. For the Spirit to recreate in us the character of our Lord we involve ourselves only in those things which will produce Christlike purity, health, and joy in our lives. This means that our amusement and entertainment should meet the highest standards of Christian taste and beauty. While recognizing cultural differences, our dress is to be simple, modest, and neat, befitting those whose true beauty does not consist of outward adornment but in the imperishable ornament of a gentle and quiet spirit. It also means that because our bodies are the temples of the Holy Spirit, we are to care for them intelligently. Along with adequate exercise and rest, we are to adopt the most healthful diet possible and abstain from the unclean foods identified in the Scriptures. Since alcoholic beverages, tobacco, and the irresponsible use of drugs and narcotics are harmful to our bodies, we are to abstain from them as well. Instead, we are to engage in whatever brings our thoughts and bodies into the discipline of Christ, who desires our wholesomeness, joy, and goodness. (Rom. 12:1, 2; 1 John 2:6; Eph. 5:1-21; Phil. 4:8; 2 Cor. 10:5; 6:14-7:1; 1 Peter 3:1-4; 1 Cor. 6:19, 20; 10:31; Lev. 11:1-47; 3 John 2.)

    23. Marriage and the Family:

    Marriage was divinely established in Eden and affirmed by Jesus to be a lifelong union between a man and a woman in loving companionship. For the Christian a marriage commitment is to God as well as to the spouse, and should be entered into only between partners who share a common faith. Mutual love, honor, respect, and responsibility are the fabric of this relationship, which is to reflect the love, sanctity, closeness, and permanence of the relationship between Christ and His church. Regarding divorce, Jesus taught that the person who divorces a spouse, except for fornication, and marries another, commits adultery. Although some family relationships may fall short of the ideal, marriage partners who fully commit themselves to each other in Christ may achieve loving unity through the guidance of the Spirit and the nurture of the church. God blesses the family and intends that its members shall assist each other toward complete maturity. Parents are to bring up their children to love and obey the Lord. By their example and their words they are to teach them that Christ is a loving disciplinarian, ever tender and caring, who wants them to become members of His body, the family of God. Increasing family closeness is one of the earmarks of the final gospel message. (Gen. 2:18-25; Matt. 19:3-9; John 2:1-11; 2 Cor. 6:14; Eph. 5:21-33; Matt. 5:31, 32; Mark 10:11, 12; Luke 16:18; 1 Cor. 7:10, 11; Ex. 20:12; Eph. 6:1-4; Deut. 6:5-9; Prov. 22:6; Mal. 4:5, 6.)

    24. Christ's Ministry in the Heavenly Sanctuary:

    There is a sanctuary in heaven, the true tabernacle which the Lord set up and not man. In it Christ ministers on our behalf, making available to believers the benefits of His atoning sacrifice offered once for all on the cross. He was inaugurated as our great High Priest and began His intercessory ministry at the time of His ascension. In 1844, at the end of the prophetic period of 2300 days, He entered the second and last phase of His atoning ministry. It is a work of investigative judgment which is part of the ultimate disposition of all sin, typified by the cleansing of the ancient Hebrew sanctuary on the Day of Atonement. In that typical service the sanctuary was cleansed with the blood of animal sacrifices, but the heavenly things are purified with the perfect sacrifice of the blood of Jesus. The investigative judgment reveals to heavenly intelligences who among the dead are asleep in Christ and therefore, in Him, are deemed worthy to have part in the first resurrection. It also makes manifest who among the living are abiding in Christ, keeping the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, and in Him, therefore, are ready for translation into His everlasting kingdom. This judgment vindicates the justice of God in saving those who believe in Jesus. It declares that those who have remained loyal to God shall receive the kingdom. The completion of this ministry of Christ will mark the close of human probation before the Second Advent. (Heb. 8:1-5; 4:14-16; 9:11-28; 10:19-22; 1:3; 2:16, 17; Dan. 7:9-27; 8:13, 14; 9:24-27; Num. 14:34; Eze. 4:6; Lev. 16; Rev. 14:6, 7; 20:12; 14:12; 22:12.)

    25. Second Coming of Christ:

    The second coming of Christ is the blessed hope of the church, the grand climax of the gospel. The Saviour's coming will be literal, personal, visible, and worldwide. When He returns, the righteous dead will be resurrected, and together with the righteous living will be glorified and taken to heaven, but the unrighteous will die. The almost complete fulfillment of most lines of prophecy, together with the present condition of the world, indicates that Christ's coming is imminent. The time of that event has not been revealed, and we are therefore exhorted to be ready at all times. (Titus 2:13; Heb. 9:28; John 14:1-3; Acts 1:9-11; Matt. 24:14; Rev. 1:7; Matt. 24:43, 44; 1 Thess. 4:13-18; 1 Cor. 15:51-54; 2 Thess. 1:7-10; 2:8; Rev. 14:14-20; 19:11-21; Matt. 24; Mark 13; Luke 21; 2 Tim. 3:1-5; 1 Thess. 5:1-6.)

    26. Death and Resurrection:

    The wages of sin is death. But God, who alone is immortal, will grant eternal life to His redeemed. Until that day death is an unconscious state for all people. When Christ, who is our life, appears, the resurrected righteous and the living righteous will be glorified and caught up to meet their Lord. The second resurrection, the resurrection of the unrighteous, will take place a thousand years later. (Rom. 6:23; 1 Tim. 6:15, 16; Eccl. 9:5, 6; Ps. 146:3, 4; John 11:11-14; Col. 3:4; 1 Cor. 15:51-54; 1 Thess. 4:13-17; John 5:28, 29; Rev. 20:1-10.)

    27. Millennium and the End of Sin:

    The millennium is the thousand-year reign of Christ with His saints in heaven between the first and second resurrections. During this time the wicked dead will be judged; the earth will be utterly desolate, without living human inhabitants, but occupied by Satan and his angels. At its close Christ with His saints and the Holy City will descend from heaven to earth. The unrighteous dead will then be resurrected, and with Satan and his angels will surround the city; but fire from God will consume them and cleanse the earth. The universe will thus be freed of sin and sinners forever. (Rev. 20; 1 Cor. 6:2, 3; Jer. 4:23-26; Rev. 21:1-5; Mal. 4:1; Eze. 28:18, 19.)

    28. New Earth:

    On the new earth, in which righteousness dwells, God will provide an eternal home for the redeemed and a perfect environment for everlasting life, love, joy, and learning in His presence. For here God Himself will dwell with His people, and suffering and death will have passed away. The great controversy will be ended, and sin will be no more. All things, animate and inanimate, will declare that God is love; and He shall reign forever. Amen. (2 Peter 3:13; Isa. 35; 65:17-25; Matt. 5:5; Rev. 21:1-7; 22:1-5; 11:15.) Seventh-day Adventists accept the Bible as their only creed and hold certain fundamental beliefs to be the teaching of the Holy Scriptures. These beliefs, as set forth here, constitute the church's understanding and expression of the teaching of Scripture. Revision of these statements may be expected at a General Conference session when the church is led by the Holy Spirit to a fuller understanding of Bible truth or finds better language in which to express the teachings of God's Holy Word.







    This SDA Church is on Hollywood Boulevard (at the Hollywood Freeway)!!
    I Grew Up Attending This Church!! We Called it "Noah's Ark"!!

    I grew-up attending this church, and I sang in the choir when we had a professional-level organist, pianist, choir-director, and soloists. We mostly performed Sacred Classical Music. Once, we participated in the wedding of a high-born non-SDA African couple, and attended the reception, which was really quite-wild by SDA standards (at that time)!! They had booze, a rock-group, and dancing rich-people!! Below is a short-video of this church a couple of years ago. Notice the people coming-forward to take communion. This is NOT Traditional SDA practice!! This is more Anglican or Catholic!! There's another video with the congregation singing 'Kyrie Eleison'!! We were much more classical-music oriented than the music in the video below!! Once, during communion, a visitor got-up and walked-out, shouting "You're Just a Bunch of Catholics!!" And that's when we did NOT come forward for communion!! Imagine what that guy would say today!! Another time, a lady got mad at the church, and was shouting "Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell??!!" One of the most significant services was the hosting of the guest-speaker Emilio Knechtle. I sang in the choir. The church was packed. PLEASE Listen to the Emilio Knechtle videos below!! He's a VERY Dynamic and Forceful Speaker!! I Find His Presentations Irresistible!! I met him after one of his sermons.

    As an Early-Teen, in the basement of this church, an Individual of Interest (who I never saw before or after) told me "Gee, You're Gullible!!" I told 'RA' about this, and he smirked. C. Lloyd Wyman was the pastor when the church was built, and I went to school with his son, Scott. Jack LaLanne's mother attended this church, and she knew the answers to all the questions in Sabbath-School!! Jack didn't attend, but he dropped-off and picked-up his mother. As a teen-ager, a group of us from the church (including the pastor, Thomas Stafford) picketed a Hollywood Pornography Establishment!! We Were Shown on the Evening Television-News in Los Angeles!! When I was a very-young child, while sitting with my mother in this church, a couple of elderly-ladies thought I was cute, and they were smiling at me, and talking to me, but I thought they were making fun of me, and I said "Shut-Up!!" My mother was horrified, and marched me out of the sanctuary, and gave me a paddling (when that sort of thing was NOT forbidden by the 'do-gooders')!! I had to apologize to the ladies following the service!! What Would Dr. Spock Say?? We drove our 1959 'Ghostbuster' Cadillac (with CBS plates) to this church each Sabbath (when I was a young child). What Would Dr. Peter Venkman Say?? Later, I sometimes drove our Blue AMC Pacer to this church (around the same time 'Oh, God' was being produced, a few miles away)!! What Would John Denver and George Burns Say?? What Would a Completely Ignorant Fool Say?? That's All I'm Going to Say!!

    Here's an article about a former pastor of the Hollywood SDA Church who became an atheist. I'm not the only renegade former member!! We should start a support-group!! https://spectrummagazine.org/article/2015/01/04/end-his-year-without-god-ryan-bell-speaks-out I don't think a lot of atheists are really atheists. I think most of them are simply disillusioned by the realities of life as we know it. There was a lot of fighting at this church when I was there, and from what I've heard, it only got worse after I moved. The fighting I experienced was mostly theological (surprise, surprise), but people also got in each others way. We all have our agendas, don't we?? What Would Patrick Lobo Say?? What Would Paul Hart Do?? What Would Charles and Marian Haluska Say and Do?? As some of you know, my current SDA idealism seems to revolve around the 'Conflict of the Ages Series' (by Ellen White) and the 'SDA Bible Commentary' combined with Science-Fiction and Sacred Classical Music in the Context of Nature. This might-not involve church-membership (or even non-committal church-attendance). People who have left the SDA church for greener-pastures quickly found-out that the pastures weren't as green as they thought they were going to be. Life on Earth is Hazardous-Duty, and most of us get our fingers burned (right up to our armpits) at some point. I have high-hopes for Church-Related Education and Employment, but Church On Earth (as fortress against the world) might be on its way out. Church In Heaven might be a completely different story. I think we all have fleeting memories of what that was like (back in the good-old days) but creating Heaven On Earth seems to be an Impossible Dream (for now). Namaste and Godspeed.



    Blessed are those whose ways are blameless, who walk according to the law of the LORD. Blessed are those who keep his statutes and seek him with all their heart. They do no wrong but follow his ways. You have laid down precepts that are to be fully obeyed. Oh, that my ways were steadfast in obeying your decrees! Then I would not be put to shame when I consider all your commands. I will praise you with an upright heart as I learn your righteous laws. I will obey your decrees; do not utterly forsake me. How can a young person stay on the path of purity? By living according to your word. I seek you with all my heart; do not let me stray from your commands. I have hidden your word in my heart that I might not sin against you. Praise be to you, LORD; teach me your decrees. With my lips I recount all the laws that come from your mouth. I rejoice in following your statutes as one rejoices in great riches. I meditate on your precepts and consider your ways. I delight in your decrees; I will not neglect your word. Be good to your servant while I live, that I may obey your word. Open my eyes that I may see wonderful things in your law. I am a stranger on earth; do not hide your commands from me. My soul is consumed with longing for your laws at all times. You rebuke the arrogant, who are accursed, those who stray from your commands. Remove from me their scorn and contempt, for I keep your statutes. Though rulers sit together and slander me, your servant will meditate on your decrees. Your statutes are my delight; they are my counselors. I am laid low in the dust; preserve my life according to your word. I gave an account of my ways and you answered me; teach me your decrees. Cause me to understand the way of your precepts, that I may meditate on your wonderful deeds. My soul is weary with sorrow; strengthen me according to your word. Keep me from deceitful ways; be gracious to me and teach me your law. I have chosen the way of faithfulness; I have set my heart on your laws. I hold fast to your statutes, LORD; do not let me be put to shame. I run in the path of your commands, for you have broadened my understanding. Teach me, LORD, the way of your decrees, that I may follow it to the end. Give me understanding, so that I may keep your law and obey it with all my heart. Direct me in the path of your commands, for there I find delight. Turn my heart toward your statutes and not toward selfish gain. Turn my eyes away from worthless things; preserve my life according to your word. Fulfill your promise to your servant, so that you may be feared.

    Take away the disgrace I dread, for your laws are good. How I long for your precepts! In your righteousness preserve my life. May your unfailing love come to me, LORD, your salvation, according to your promise; then I can answer anyone who taunts me, for I trust in your word. Never take your word of truth from my mouth, for I have put my hope in your laws. I will always obey your law, for ever and ever. I will walk about in freedom, for I have sought out your precepts. I will speak of your statutes before kings and will not be put to shame, for I delight in your commands because I love them. I reach out for your commands, which I love, that I may meditate on your decrees. Remember your word to your servant, for you have given me hope. My comfort in my suffering is this: Your promise preserves my life. The arrogant mock me unmercifully, but I do not turn from your law. I remember, LORD, your ancient laws, and I find comfort in them. Indignation grips me because of the wicked, who have forsaken your law. Your decrees are the theme of my song wherever I lodge. In the night, LORD, I remember your name, that I may keep your law. This has been my practice: I obey your precepts. You are my portion, LORD; I have promised to obey your words. I have sought your face with all my heart; be gracious to me according to your promise. I have considered my ways and have turned my steps to your statutes. I will hasten and not delay to obey your commands. Though the wicked bind me with ropes, I will not forget your law. At midnight I rise to give you thanks for your righteous laws. I am a friend to all who fear you, to all who follow your precepts. The earth is filled with your love, LORD; teach me your decrees. Do good to your servant according to your word, LORD. Teach me knowledge and good judgment, for I trust your commands. Before I was afflicted I went astray, but now I obey your word. You are good, and what you do is good; teach me your decrees. Though the arrogant have smeared me with lies, I keep your precepts with all my heart. Their hearts are callous and unfeeling, but I delight in your law. It was good for me to be afflicted so that I might learn your decrees. The law from your mouth is more precious to me than thousands of pieces of silver and gold. Your hands made me and formed me; give me understanding to learn your commands. May those who fear you rejoice when they see me, for I have put my hope in your word. I know, LORD, that your laws are righteous, and that in faithfulness you have afflicted me.

    May your unfailing love be my comfort, according to your promise to your servant. Let your compassion come to me that I may live, for your law is my delight. May the arrogant be put to shame for wronging me without cause; but I will meditate on your precepts. May those who fear you turn to me, those who understand your statutes. May I wholeheartedly follow your decrees, that I may not be put to shame. My soul faints with longing for your salvation, but I have put my hope in your word. My eyes fail, looking for your promise; I say, “When will you comfort me?” Though I am like a wineskin in the smoke, I do not forget your decrees. How long must your servant wait? When will you punish my persecutors? The arrogant dig pits to trap me, contrary to your law. All your commands are trustworthy; help me, for I am being persecuted without cause. They almost wiped me from the earth, but I have not forsaken your precepts. In your unfailing love preserve my life, that I may obey the statutes of your mouth. Your word, LORD, is eternal; it stands firm in the heavens. Your faithfulness continues through all generations; you established the earth, and it endures. Your laws endure to this day, for all things serve you. If your law had not been my delight, I would have perished in my affliction. I will never forget your precepts, for by them you have preserved my life. Save me, for I am yours; I have sought out your precepts. The wicked are waiting to destroy me, but I will ponder your statutes. To all perfection I see a limit, but your commands are boundless. Oh, how I love your law! I meditate on it all day long. Your commands are always with me and make me wiser than my enemies. I have more insight than all my teachers, for I meditate on your statutes. I have more understanding than the elders, for I obey your precepts. I have kept my feet from every evil path so that I might obey your word. I have not departed from your laws, for you yourself have taught me. How sweet are your words to my taste, sweeter than honey to my mouth! I gain understanding from your precepts; therefore I hate every wrong path. Your word is a lamp for my feet, a light on my path. I have taken an oath and confirmed it, that I will follow your righteous laws. I have suffered much; preserve my life, LORD, according to your word. Accept, LORD, the willing praise of my mouth, and teach me your laws. Though I constantly take my life in my hands, I will not forget your law. The wicked have set a snare for me, but I have not strayed from your precepts. Your statutes are my heritage forever; they are the joy of my heart. My heart is set on keeping your decrees to the very end.

    I hate double-minded people, but I love your law. You are my refuge and my shield; I have put my hope in your word. Away from me, you evildoers, that I may keep the commands of my God! Sustain me, my God, according to your promise, and I will live; do not let my hopes be dashed. Uphold me, and I will be delivered; I will always have regard for your decrees. You reject all who stray from your decrees, for their delusions come to nothing. All the wicked of the earth you discard like dross; therefore I love your statutes. My flesh trembles in fear of you; I stand in awe of your laws. I have done what is righteous and just; do not leave me to my oppressors. Ensure your servant’s well-being; do not let the arrogant oppress me. My eyes fail, looking for your salvation, looking for your righteous promise. Deal with your servant according to your love and teach me your decrees. I am your servant; give me discernment that I may understand your statutes. It is time for you to act, LORD; your law is being broken. Because I love your commands more than gold, more than pure gold, and because I consider all your precepts right, I hate every wrong path. Your statutes are wonderful; therefore I obey them. The unfolding of your words gives light; it gives understanding to the simple. I open my mouth and pant, longing for your commands. Turn to me and have mercy on me, as you always do to those who love your name. Direct my footsteps according to your word; let no sin rule over me. Redeem me from human oppression, that I may obey your precepts. Make your face shine on your servant and teach me your decrees. Streams of tears flow from my eyes, for your law is not obeyed. You are righteous, LORD, and your laws are right. The statutes you have laid down are righteous; they are fully trustworthy. My zeal wears me out, for my enemies ignore your words. Your promises have been thoroughly tested, and your servant loves them. Though I am lowly and despised, I do not forget your precepts. Your righteousness is everlasting and your law is true. Trouble and distress have come upon me, but your commands give me delight. Your statutes are always righteous; give me understanding that I may live. I call with all my heart; answer me, LORD, and I will obey your decrees. I call out to you; save me and I will keep your statutes. I rise before dawn and cry for help; I have put my hope in your word. My eyes stay open through the watches of the night, that I may meditate on your promises. Hear my voice in accordance with your love; preserve my life, LORD, according to your laws.

    Those who devise wicked schemes are near, but they are far from your law. Yet you are near, LORD, and all your commands are true. Long ago I learned from your statutes that you established them to last forever. Look on my suffering and deliver me, for I have not forgotten your law. Defend my cause and redeem me; preserve my life according to your promise. Salvation is far from the wicked, for they do not seek out your decrees. Your compassion, LORD, is great; preserve my life according to your laws. Many are the foes who persecute me, but I have not turned from your statutes. I look on the faithless with loathing, for they do not obey your word. See how I love your precepts; preserve my life, LORD, in accordance with your love. All your words are true; all your righteous laws are eternal. Rulers persecute me without cause, but my heart trembles at your word. I rejoice in your promise like one who finds great spoil. I hate and detest falsehood but I love your law. Seven times a day I praise you for your righteous laws. Great peace have those who love your law, and nothing can make them stumble. I wait for your salvation, LORD, and I follow your commands. I obey your statutes, for I love them greatly. I obey your precepts and your statutes, for all my ways are known to you. May my cry come before you, LORD; give me understanding according to your word. May my supplication come before you; deliver me according to your promise. May my lips overflow with praise, for you teach me your decrees. May my tongue sing of your word, for all your commands are righteous. May your hand be ready to help me, for I have chosen your precepts. I long for your salvation, LORD, and your law gives me delight. Let me live that I may praise you, and may your laws sustain me. I have strayed like a lost sheep. Seek your servant, for I have not forgotten your commands.  


    "The Seventh-Day is the Sabbath!!"


    avatar
    Swanny

    Posts : 592
    Join date : 2010-04-13
    Location : The Shire of Wilts

    Re: Bible

    Post  Swanny on Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:35 am

    As this chap called Bob says

    Religion is just a control system


    Bob Burton

    What I find fascinating is how so many people who claim to hate the 'elite' - I agree it is inappropriate, but we know who we mean - are religious. It's mind blowing. Who wrote the books relating to all religions? It wasn't god, that much is guaranteed. Who could read and write back then? Not the masses - again, guaranteed. The' elite' invented religion to control the masses. How can you, if you claim to be awake, not realise that? This is religion in a nutshell. Do exactly as your 'betters' tell you. Pay your taxes to enrich them further. What little you have left, donate to an incredibly rich church that has more money than it knows what to do with. Never rebel against authority. Do not kill - except in religious wars of course. So on and so forth.

    So, although by following these laws of a god there is no evidence for, your life will be shitty, worry not, because the church that demands this of you guarantees that WHEN YOU DIE you will go to a heaven there is zero evidence of. When you die?!!! PL-ease, do me a favour. Religion is undoubtedly the 'elites' greatest ever achievement. Crown and church were always closely connected for a reason. In fact, back in the day, the eldest son inherited the family fortune whilst the youngest son trotted off to become a high ranking church official, so he could help the crown maintain control. Not much has changed since then. Who is the Defender of the Faith in Britain? The fcuking Queen, or King, depending who is in power.

    All political leaders with real power claim to be religious. Why? You can work that out surely? Did we not just witness Clinton and Comey - two allegedly fine Christians - swear on the Bible to tell the truth, before launching into lie after lie? Clinton now hopes to save her scrawny neck by saying she wants to become a pastor ffs. I could go on forever about hypocrisy in all religions but I'd be dead of old age before I finished. Religion is an 'elite' control mechanism and you cannot seriously claim to be awake whilst swallowing that crap. It's all about the afterlife with religion. The afterlife and its rewards. Do you ever hear of an imam strapping bombs to himself? Surely if he believed that XXXX he would willingly rush into the arms of Allah to claim his virgins, but no, he's busy persuading the gullible to do it for him. Religion and gullible - two words you cannot separate. It's all a lie to keep you in your place and not rebel against the so called elite. As Jordan just pointed out, they've been in control for millennia. It is inevitable that they invented it for that purpose. The uneducated in the dark ages had no education except what priests taught them. They had an excuse. There is no excuse now. Wake the fcuk up.
    avatar
    Swanny

    Posts : 592
    Join date : 2010-04-13
    Location : The Shire of Wilts

    Re: Bible

    Post  Swanny on Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:37 am

    It was a really good debate in the comments section of youtube. Bob won it easily

    I doubt you'll read it but you should






    Bob Burton 1 day ago


    AGENT 99 Thank you for your excellent post. Like a number of others on here you actually get my point. The guilt you felt about disbelieving the religion you were forced into, is deliberately implanted at an early age. Children are sadly manipulated by religion and it seriously messes with their heads. Can you imagine my horror when a pervert preist grabbed me? I was 'chosen' to be an alter boy and my mother was overjoyed. To be honest, what he did wasn't really bad. He didn't rape me, but he was clearly grooming me towards that event. I knew it was wrong. I had also been led to believe god was watching every damn second of my life what I did, what I said etc, so I did what I deemed the right thing. For god. For the baby Jesus. The horror began when I reported him. That was when I witnessed the true hypocrisy of the church. In the sixties, corporal punishment was standard. Let me rephrase that - obligatory. Sparing the rod was never an option. Every day I went to school, the head nun called me into the office. "What happened on Sunday". She would ask. "Father Thomas touched me". I replied. "Liar"!!! She screamed at me and thrashed the XXXX out of me. "I'm not lying. Praying and ask god, he'll tell you". Thrashed more. Confused? I was seven or eight, not sure which. Not long after my first communion and that crap. This went on for weeks.
    I didn't dare tell my mam, she'd probably have repeated the dose ffs. An older friend, who suffered the same treatment and knew what happened every morning, told me to lie. Say it never happened and it will stop, he told me. Lie to a nun? What would god think of that? Why was he letting it happen? He knew what happened, why wasn't he telling the bitch I was telling the truth? Naive I know, but I believed. Next morning I went in. Same old question. "Nothing", I said. She gave me a huge smile and hugged me. "There, that wasn't too hard was it". Opened her draw where the cane was and I froze. Thought it was a trap and now I was really getting it for lying. She pulled out a bar of chocolate and handed it to me. "God was testing you. You passed. Well done". From that point, even at a young age, I started asking questions. Yes, it was the people, but are we not told the church is the people? As you point out, even when caught, they shuffle them around and the abuse continues. A sexual frustrated nun should never be let loose with a cane, trust me.

    A pervert priest should be dead, not moved. Was he the only one? XXXX no! I don't think I ever came into contact with a priest who didn't try to fondle me. I had a nickname for priests - octopus. Arms and hands everywhere! �� Your point on evangelical churches is so on point. Millionaires, demanding more money from people who think they can buy their way into heaven. Hypocrisy. It's all about after you die, never this life. I love it when I'm accused of 'propaganda'. All I've done is break religion down to its basics. If they think that's anti church propaganda, then maybe they need to re-examine their own faith, because I've nailed it. Do as the king and lord of the manor tells you. Pay your taxes. Pay the church, despite your family starving and he's a big fat pig. Never rebel. Pray every day. Accept your shitty life and you are guaranteed a place in heaven. The names of those in charge have changed, but it's still the same message. If anybody thinks that's anti church propaganda, then who's to blame for that? That is what they teach you after all. I have three children. I refused to allow the school to teach them religion and never allowed them to enter a church. I have wonderful morals. I passed them onto my children without the god crap and all three turned out to be fine adults. I taught them right from wrong - we know what that is. You don't need a hypocritical church, who have no morals at all, to teach morals. Christian values are fine, it's just a pity they don't practice what they preach.

    Then you have idiots telling me how educated the poor were in the dark ages, when Christianity was spread by the sword. What a lie. And yes, the RC church kind of offered education, but it came at a price. None of them learned to read and write because an educated poor man was a danger to the ruling elite. As for learning Greek and Latin? Ha ha ha ha! Only the chosen few learned that. It cost to learn to read and write, which is why it was the dark ages. The only history was written by the church and royalty lovers. Earls, Duke, etc. There is no real history from those times. And of course, history is written by the Victor. Nuff said. Look what happened in Alexandria and the great library. Or the history of the Mayans and further back. Piled up and burned, because they deemed it heresy. To deny that is just ignorance. They raped and pillaged across South America 'for God and king'. Ditto N America. Yes, the slaves were owned by a lot of Jews, but there were as many Christian slave owners - more. How many converted to Judaism? The missionaries were all Christians. Work seven days, or convert and have Sunday as a rest day. Only a fool would not convert. Look how the elite control us now? How can anybody not see that religion was their greatest ever trick. And why am I still alive? �� This world could be a wonderful place, but it isn't. It's horrible. And if you try to question authority, they throw the guilt trip on you. It's wrong to kill the elite to free ourselves but perfectly alright to kill in wars?

    Don't recall any subsections in the Ten Commandments, do you? 'Thou shalt not kill.... except in these conditions. �� Anyway, release that guilt. It's what they want you to feel because it helps control you. Did the Founding Father's not order you to question authority, to prevent tyranny? Is that not what the second amendment is all about? Now your told, once again, to accept everything they tell you as fact. To question 9/11 is deemed to be unpatriotic. It was a Mossad operation, paid for by their Saudi allies and assisted by Zionist traitors in the govt. Israel went on high alert when the Saudi sweep happened, because the truth may now come out. Saudis are now revealing the very close ties between these two alleged sworn enemies. So called religious countries, dragging the west into more wars that only serve their purpose. Truth is coming. The backlash will be fast and furious. Maybe now, finally, the elite will face the justice they've avoided all this time. Let's hope so. ��
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    RedEzra

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    Re: Bible

    Post  RedEzra on Sat Nov 25, 2017 6:15 am


    You do not have to convince me that a$$holes are also in churches posing as christians.

    There is a difference between Scripture and religious people playing church... remember religious people got God killed.


    Of course He rose again on the third day and all that and it was also written in the Scriptures that He would be killed so EVERYTHING happens according to the Scriptures because God is the inspiration to the Scriptures.

    God is just one of those facts of life... and so are angels and demons and a$$holes of course also known as human beings.

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    RedEzra

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    Re: Bible

    Post  RedEzra on Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:25 pm


    When all i hear is people go on and on about that they are God... i tell them that they are actually a$$holes.

    There is an angel who wanted to be God and he is the first and foremost reason why the people of the world are so deceived divided and demoralised. Our principal men and women worship that angel for worldly power and wealth.

    But he is running out of time... and the New World Order which he has been working on for some time now is foretold to only last 3.5 years...

    Jesus is coming back and God help those who do not repent and stop sinning before that time.

    An earth life is like morning mist while eternity is forever.

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    RedEzra

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    Re: Bible

    Post  RedEzra on Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:35 pm

    Steven Crowder questions Amazon's libtard chatbot Alexa who answers that Jesus Christ is a fictional character while Muhammed is a very wise prophet lol.

    So better begin practising kowtow to the future slavemasters or prepare to be beheaded.

    What was once Christian nations have been utterly corrupted and infiltrated by Islam in cooperation with Freemasonry the Catholic and Anglican churches and atheistic Socialism.



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    burgundia

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    Re: Bible

    Post  burgundia on Sun Nov 26, 2017 3:20 am

    Jesus as presented in the Bible was a fictional character. The guy that was born in a shed was not the Christ. Christ appeared as an adult. There was no immaculate conception ( how ridiculous), poor Mary was most probably raped. Jahwe is a fallen god.
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    RedEzra

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    Re: Bible

    Post  RedEzra on Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:17 am


    Most people of the world do not believe what is written in the Bible... so are the majority right ?

    What is the true religion philosophy or opinion about life ?

    Is it Islam Hinduism Buddhism Darwinism NewAge... ?


    God knows we got choice so pick your poison. Believe what you want...

    We do not believe what is written in the Bible because of faith but because the Bible has proved itself by being historical accurate and fulfilling prophecies. Also we do not believe Jesus Christ is God because of faith but because His name is enough to stop alien abductions rapists killers etc etc in their tracks.

    And some of us have also met Jesus Christ and there are thousands of testimonies on utube about it.


    I am not selling anything because the Truth is free !





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    RedEzra

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    Re: Bible

    Post  RedEzra on Sun Nov 26, 2017 6:07 am


    Testimony from one of those who met Jesus Christ
    17:30 - 34:10

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    Swanny

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    Re: Bible

    Post  Swanny on Sun Nov 26, 2017 6:20 am

    burgundia wrote:Jesus as presented in the Bible was a fictional character. The guy that was born in a shed was not the Christ. Christ appeared as an adult. There was no immaculate conception ( how ridiculous), poor Mary was most probably raped. Jahwe is a fallen god.

    She was artificially inseminated by aliens from the spaceship that they mistook as the star of Bethlehem. UFO2
    But I don't believe Jesus was real

    Oh and I must be an a$$hole Insanely Happy for I am a creator
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    RedEzra

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    Re: Bible

    Post  RedEzra on Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:10 am


    Aliens are abducting people in cooperation with military black projects for whatever reason... anybody know why ?

    Are they building bodies from extracted human eggs and sperms and maybe mixing alien and human DNA ?


    It is reasonable to believe that aliens are the source of our recent high tech civilisation and so perhaps in exchange for that they are allowed (if our governments have any say at all?) to mix and mingle with humans.

    There are testimonies of alien abductions being stopped by the authority of the Name of Jesus Christ and so one may wonder why ?

    I am not telling anybody what to do or don't... i just inform what i know.

    If aliens are to live among us i suppose Christians who have the tendency to speak about Jesus Christ will have to go... as aliens just can't stand that for some reason.
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    Swanny

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    Re: Bible

    Post  Swanny on Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:25 pm

    RedEzra wrote:


    If aliens are to live among us i suppose Christians who have the tendency to speak about Jesus Christ will have to go... as aliens just can't stand that for some reason.

    Good riddance rabbit
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    RedEzra

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    Re: Bible

    Post  RedEzra on Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:42 am


    Read Revelation those who do not worship the "image of the beast" which most likely is AI will be killed.

    And if you don't want to be killed and so go along connecting to the global AI then you will burn.


    Soon you will find yourselves between a rock and a hard place... you choose !
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    orthodoxymoron

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    Re: Bible

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:13 am

    RedEzra wrote:Read Revelation those who do not worship the "image of the beast" which most likely is AI will be killed. And if you don't want to be killed and so go along connecting to the global AI then you will burn. Soon you will find yourselves between a rock and a hard place... you choose !
    I am presently concerned about the New Testament claim regarding the Immanent Second Coming of Christ, and the End of the World (2,000 Years Ago). Are we supposed to just look the other way, pretending there's no problem, and everything's fine?? The violent-finality in the Book of Revelation is presently incomprehensible to me, especially regarding the murder and mayhem being overseen by a God of Love and Righteousness. "Love Your Neighbor As Yourself" in the Book of Revelation?? Really??? It seems as if just about ANYTHING can be rationalized in the Name of God. If People Wish to be Saved, They'd Better Just Shut-Up and Go Along with the Mass-Murder in God's Name!! Right?? Is This Really All About Galactic-Conquest in God's Name?? Might Makes Right!! Right?? God is Love!! And You'd Better NOT Forget It!! Or Else!!

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    Swanny

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    Re: Bible

    Post  Swanny on Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:40 am

    orthodoxymoron wrote:God is Love!! And You'd Better NOT Forget It!! Or Else!![/size]



    And if you do forget it he'll send you to hell to visit his son who'll stick a red hot poker up your bum Hot

    Nice family Blowdup
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    RedEzra

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    Re: Bible

    Post  RedEzra on Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:12 am

    orthodoxymoron wrote:The violent-finality in the Book of Revelation is presently incomprehensible to me, especially regarding the murder and mayhem being overseen by a God of Love and Righteousness.


    Don't forget that God flooded the whole world once...


    God said in the beginning that He would put enmity between the seed of the serpent and the seed of the woman because of the incident in Eden where the serpent tricked Eve to taste the forbidden fruit of the knowledge of good and evil.

    Some say that the serpent had sex with Eve and so sired Cain... who after a while killed his brother Abel.


    Be that as it may but what is crystal clear is that angels mingled with mankind and mated with women before the flood. And so produced a hybrid race in Hebrew known as nephilim whom we know from Greek mythology. Enoch wrote about it... that they also spliced human and animal DNA back then and so corrupted God's creation.

    Aliens are the modern equivalent of this serpent seed who are splicing alien/human/animal abominations in the millions...



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    orthodoxymoron

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    Re: Bible

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:43 am

    RedEzra wrote:Read Revelation those who do not worship the "image of the beast" which most likely is AI will be killed. And if you don't want to be killed and so go along connecting to the global AI then you will burn. Soon you will find yourselves between a rock and a hard place... you choose !
    I am presently concerned about the New Testament claim regarding the Immanent Second Coming of Christ, and the End of the World (2,000 Years Ago). Are we supposed to just look the other way, pretending there's no problem, and everything's fine?? The violent-finality in the Book of Revelation is presently incomprehensible to me, especially regarding the murder and mayhem being overseen by a God of Love and Righteousness. "Love Your Neighbor As Yourself" in the Book of Revelation?? Really??? It seems as if just about ANYTHING can be rationalized in the Name of God. If People Wish to be Saved, They'd Better Just Shut-Up and Go Along with the Mass-Murder in God's Name!! Right?? Is This Really All About Galactic-Conquest in God's Name?? Might Makes Right!! Right?? God is Love!! And You'd Better NOT Forget It!! Or Else!!

    Swanny wrote:
    orthodoxymoron wrote:
    God is Love!! And You'd Better NOT Forget It!! Or Else!!
    And if you do forget it he'll send you to hell to visit his son who'll stick a red hot poker up your bum Hot Nice family Blowdup
    RedEzra wrote: Don't forget that God flooded the whole world once...God said in the beginning that He would put enmity between the seed of the serpent and the seed of the woman because of the incident in Eden where the serpent tricked Eve to taste the forbidden fruit of the knowledge of good and evil. Some say that the serpent had sex with Eve and so sired Cain... who after a while killed his brother Abel. Be that as it may but what is crystal clear is that angels mingled with mankind and mated with women before the flood. And so produced a hybrid race in Hebrew known as nephilim whom we know from Greek mythology. Enoch wrote about it... that they also spliced human and animal DNA back then and so corrupted God's creation. Aliens are the modern equivalent of this serpent seed who are splicing alien/human/animal abominations in the millions...
    orthodoxymoron wrote:
    Spiritual

    Tacodog Luke
    UhOh
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    Swanny

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    Re: Bible

    Post  Swanny on Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:37 pm

    Ancient banned manuscript of Jesus’s secret teachings is unearthed after 1,600 years


    http://metro.co.uk/2017/12/04/ancient-banned-manuscript-of-jesuss-secret-teachings-is-unearthed-after-1600-years-7129635/

    Jesus had a brother

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    Re: Bible

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