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    Who is Lucifer? What are they doing?

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    orthodoxymoron

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    Re: Who is Lucifer? What are they doing?

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Tue Dec 21, 2010 12:53 pm

    Thank-you Andromeda. I agree.

    I'm trying to have an open yet critical mind. Should I have 'Sympathy for the Devil'?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLddJ1WceHQ&feature=related

    Please allow me to introduce myself
    I'm a man of wealth and taste
    I've been around for a long, long year
    Stole many a man's soul and faith

    And I was 'round when Jesus Christ
    Had his moment of doubt and pain
    Made damn sure that Pilate
    Washed his hands and sealed his fate

    Pleased to meet you
    Hope you guess my name
    But what's puzzling you
    Is the nature of my game

    I stuck around St. Petersburg
    When I saw it was a time for a change
    Killed the Czar and his ministers
    Anastasia screamed in vain

    I rode a tank
    in the general's rank
    When the Blitzkrieg raged
    And the bodies stank

    Pleased to meet you
    Hope you guess my name, oh yeah
    Ah, what's puzzling you
    Is the nature of my game, oh yeah
    (woo woo, woo woo)

    I watched with glee
    While your kings and queens
    Fought for ten decades
    For the gods they made
    (woo woo, woo woo)

    I shouted out,
    "Who killed the Kennedys?"
    When after all
    It was you and me
    (who who, who who)

    Let me please introduce myself
    I'm a man of wealth and taste
    And I laid traps for troubadours
    Who get killed before they reached Bombay
    (woo woo, who who)

    Pleased to meet you
    Hope you guessed my name, oh yeah
    (who who)
    But what's puzzling you
    Is the nature of my game, oh yeah, get down, baby
    (who who, who who)

    Pleased to meet you
    Hope you guessed my name, oh yeah
    But what's confusing you
    Is just the nature of my game
    (woo woo, who who)

    Just as every cop is a criminal
    And all the sinners saints
    As heads is tails
    Just call me Lucifer
    'Cause I'm in need of some restraint
    (who who, who who)

    So if you meet me
    Have some courtesy
    Have some sympathy, have some taste
    (woo woo)
    Use all your well-learned politesse
    Or I'll lay your soul to waste, mmm yeah
    (woo woo, woo woo)

    Pleased to meet you
    Hope you guessed my name, mmm yeah
    (who who)
    But what's puzzling you
    Is the nature of my game, mmm mean it, get down
    (woo woo, woo woo)

    Woo, who
    Oh yeah, get on down
    Oh yeah
    Oh yeah!
    (woo woo)

    Tell me baby, what's my name
    Tell me honey, can ya guess my name
    Tell me baby, what's my name
    I tell you one time, you're to blame

    Oh, who
    woo, woo
    Woo, who
    Woo, woo
    Woo, who, who
    Woo, who, who
    Oh, yeah

    What's my name
    Tell me, baby, what's my name
    Tell me, sweetie, what's my name

    Woo, who, who
    Woo, who, who
    Woo, who, who
    Woo, who, who
    Woo, who, who
    Woo, who, who
    Oh, yeah
    Woo woo
    Woo woo

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tpl6ncyxLGw
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    orthodoxymoron

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    Join date : 2010-09-28

    Re: Who is Lucifer? What are they doing?

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Fri Dec 24, 2010 10:19 am

    What should happen to Lucifer? Is there a possible positive future for Lucifer here in this Solar System? Should Lucifer be permanently removed from this Solar System? Or - should Lucifer be utterly and permanently destroyed - body and soul? Is Lucifer past the point of no return? What would it take to reform them? If they were completely removed - would someone worse take their place? Could Lucifer be useful in fighting future abuses of power? Does it take a Devil to fight a Devil? Would a well-meaning and pure Christ-like figure - who was relatively naive and powerless - be able to properly manage this solar system? I like the statement of Jesus regarding being Wise as Serpents - and Harmless as Doves. Should we be Wise as Lucifer - and Harmless as Christ? Is this blasphemous talk? Is a Christ-like Lucifer a possibility? Why do we have to make everything so damn hard and impossible? I tend to think that Lucifer might possibly be useful as an advisor of sorts - with very little power. They might have to do this in some sort of an exile situation. There is also the difficult issue of punishment for any crimes against humanity - and these may be unimaginable. I don't really know the true facts of the matter. I'm just considering various possibilities - outloud. I tend to think that any Solar System Administrator should have limited power - and share responsibility in a constitutional manner - in a Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom Solar System - with 10,000 representatives - to avoid corruption and even insanity. Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely. There may be very few exceptions - if any - to this rule. Namaste.

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    Mercuriel
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    Re: Who is Lucifer? What are they doing?

    Post  Mercuriel on Fri Dec 24, 2010 11:43 am

    Lucifer chose Annihilation in 1998. His Assistant Satan (Another Son of the Lanonandeks' Primary Order) is now running the show and not well I might add...

    As Lucifer was aware of Co-ordinate representation and sought to take advantage of It as does Prime Creator - Fragmentation occurred of course but the Oversoul Lucifer chose Annihilation - Going back to the Even Pool as pure Energy at that time - Rather than bend It's knee to the Christ Consciousness. This has left the rest of the Fallen scrambling to keeps things going as all falls into disarray about Them. This was Lucifer's true talent - That being Skirting Cosmic Law during the Rebellion - Thereby keeping the Powers out of the Mix.

    To further explain - When Lucifer was offered forgiveness by Prime Creator and a chance to repent for falling into Error - Knowing full well it would require Millions if not Trillions of Years incarnate in matter as an Ascender to progress once again - Lucifer chose Annihilation rather than loss and the eventual knowing of that loss.

    That said - Many of the Seventy two have now bent Their Knee to the Christ Consciousness. Not all - But many nonetheless and more will do so as the futility of Their Play becomes apparent to even Them...

    Harp


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    Peace, Light, Love, Harmony and Unity...
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    orthodoxymoron

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    Re: Who is Lucifer? What are they doing?

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Fri Dec 24, 2010 4:05 pm

    Thank-you Mercuriel. Lionhawk has stated previously that Lucifer is no more - by their own choice - and you are confirming this. But how do we really know that this is true? I would expect Lucifer to fight bitterly to the bitter end. I would also expect them to be very, very deceptive - and to possibly stage their own demise. Even though I am not an insider, in any way, shape, or form - I will continue to assume that Lucifer is alive and well - and living somewhere in this solar system - possibly in a variety of bodies - male and female. I will continue my little crusade to unite all factions around what seems to be a noble cause - namely a Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom Solar System - even though this could be a very bad idea - or an exercise in futility. I will continue to test the notion in a variety of contexts. As crazy as it sounds - I will continue to seek the genuine conversion of Lucifer - and all of his/her willing and unwilling followers. I really and truly wish to see the entire universe be a genuine paradise - with no Star Wars or Masters of the Universe power-struggles. I continue to fly-blind - and I don't really know what the hell is going on. I trust nothing and no one - and I like very few - even though I love everyone - whether they are good or evil.

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    Mercuriel
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    Re: Who is Lucifer? What are they doing?

    Post  Mercuriel on Fri Dec 24, 2010 4:26 pm

    Lucifer did fight bitterly up to the end of His own understanding.

    He realized that He'd fallen into error - The Path back was too long to bear. Another chance at a new existence was desired and all without the Baggage of the last 22 Billion Years.

    Once You have been all of that - Is it possible to become Mortal - To Fall that far after having already Fallen ? Would You even want to having known what was known - Only to be faced with the Forgetting of It all ?

    As Lucifer was Confronted by Prime Creator - What Fight was possible for a Son Who had only wanted to see the True Creator of Us all. Once this had happened - Lucifer could choose no other Path as It was realized through Co-ordinate representation that Father / Mother / All that Is was Lucifer and vice versa...

    Lucifer and the Fallen initially Rebelled as no one could tell Them what Prime Creator was like. They then came to doubt that there even was a Prime Creator and this caused Lucifer and the other Fallen to Rebel but let Me ask You this very simply...

    If Your Thrust was to doubt Prime Creator as You didn't have Faith in It - Then to find out You were wrong and in error after confrontation - Would have You doing what ?

    Admitting It or continuing the Charade ?

    Never forget that Lucifer was reknowned for His Intellect and that Intellect just had to admit it to Itself once Awareness was gained...

    Wink


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    Peace, Light, Love, Harmony and Unity...
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    orthodoxymoron

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    Re: Who is Lucifer? What are they doing?

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Sat Dec 25, 2010 1:25 am

    Thank-you again, Mercuriel. I am particularly interested in ancient hybridization and advanced technology programs. I tend to think that this would explain a lot of things. The classic spiritual versions of the Mystery of Iniquity, the Luciferian Rebellion, War in Heaven, Eschatological Solutions, etc. are becoming increasingly unsatisfactory to me. Are we really dealing with two factions of humans who are engaged in an ongoing ancient Civil War? Are hybridization, technology, theology, conquest, retribution, etc. - really at the center of the Lucifer phenomenon - and the delemma we find ourselves in? Ancient Egypt and Early Roman Catholicism are of particular interest to me presently. What really went on under the Gizeh Plateau, and under the Seven-Hills of Rome? What would the Whore of Babylon say? That mother!

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    orthodoxymoron

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    Re: Who is Lucifer? What are they doing?

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Sat Dec 25, 2010 3:20 pm

    santa Merry Freaking Christmas! santa (viewer discretion strongly advised - some objectionable material - especially in the second video) I do not endorse either of these videos - but they are a bit funny - in a quite sick way...

    1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfLiefiDQzI

    2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHRaP4LPCaU&feature=related

    You know - I thought these were bad - and I almost didn't post them - but there are some REALLY bad videos connected with Christmas. I support free-speech - but what exactly does Responsible Freedom imply? Should some things be forbidden? Should it be 'anything goes'? I think we should live in a highly, highly ethical solar system - but one which is not retentive to the nth degree. How good is too good? I suspect that this will be an ongoing infowar.

    Spiritual Merry Christmas Lucifer! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LX2fYRQWBaI&feature=related Harp Sometimes, I think too much, and too hard. Right, Lucifer? Blowdup

    Check this out. Someone other than me thinks that Lucifer is alive and well, and living in this dimension. http://www.rense.com/general85/lucifer.htm

    Lucifer Rising
    By Philip Jones
    5-13-09

    Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiter's of the earth and of the sea, for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

    Introduction. As an amateur researcher and writer, with perhaps too much time on his hands, I am fortunate to be able to devote many hours a day reading books and online articles relating to what I will call in this essay the Luciferian Conspiracy. I make no pretensions that what follows is in any way original or even innovative. Most of it excepting my own personal observations can be found in much greater detail elsewhere, and for that purpose, I have included a full bibliography and reference section at article's end. What I have tried to do here is collect information gleaned from reading the work of such exceptional researchers as William J. Sutton, Fritz Springmeier, William F. Jasper, Henry Makow, David Livingstone and Texe Marrs, and create a condensed summary of evidence which will show that as it says in the Bible verse above, Lucifer is amongst us, and the mayhem and chaos we are now experiencing on an international scale in this the first decade of the 21st century, is due to the culmination of many millenia of plotting and planning by the eternal adversary as mentioned in the Holy Scriptures.

    If only four years ago, someone had made a similar assertion to me as that above, I would have raised an eyebrow or two, and politely or not, dismissed the idea. But all of my research these past few years has led me to believe just that; That Lucifer is real, and is here on earth, in this dimension, and through those who descend directly from his line, and their puppets, he is causing havoc and chaos in an attempt to seat himself, or his proxy on the throne of a World State, and to inaugurate a New Religion with himself it's sole deity.

    During my investigations into the Illuminati Brotherhood and their diabolical machinations to cull and enslave mankind, I had until quite recently been oblivious to an aspect of the Global Conspiracy which in it's breadth, depth and scope is like no other. I am speaking about the New Age Movement and it's plan to introduce a World Religion. I have tried to be as brief and to the point as possible, and hope the reader will have the patience to stick with me. My ultimate intention here is to lead people to the work of those dedicated men listed above, which in turn will help others to truly come to terms with the realisation, that for all it's mystical hype and apparent diversity, what many now refer to as `The Rainbow Conspiracy` is in reality the `Luciferian Conspiracy`.

    Below, I have tried to connect as many of those `dots` as an article of this type allows, in order to draw a red line through each of the many interconnecting aspects of what the New Age terms `The Plan` and what Freemasonry calls `The Great Work Of Ages`. Call it what you will, by `essay's end` , it should become obvious that what we are dealing with is Lucifer's rebellion against God.

    The Far Pavillions. During the 1960s and '70s, large numbers of disillusioned intellectuals, alienated students and others from the West, travelled to India and other points east seeking "truth, wisdom, enlightenment, and good karma" from a ready made supply of gurus, swamis, yogis, and other self styled "Illuminated masters." Few understood that they were merely following in the footsteps of a woman who a hundred or so years earlier had trodden a similar path and set out the foundations for the present occult revival being experienced globally, and whose work is pivotal to the spiritual character of the United Nations today and the cause of a World Religion.

    That woman was Helena P. Blavatsky (1831-1891), widely regarded as the high priestess of the modern New Age Movement. Blavatsky founded the Theosophical Society in New York in 1875, and during her lifetime, established close relations with Freemasonry, receiving the Certificate of the `Rite Of Adoption` from Mason John Yarker in 1877. Blavatsky's Theosophy taught arcane "knowledge" (Gnosis), the universal brotherhood of mankind, and unity among all religions, except the monotheistic religions, Christianity, Islam, and Judaism , which she insisted could not be reconciled with what she termed "individual enlightenment."

    Blavatsky damned Yahweh as a "capricious and unjust." God. In her view, he was the God of the Israelites and nothing more. She insisted that the Holy Scriptures were wrong, it was really Lucifer who was the `Good and Just God`, victimised by the harsh and unjust Yahweh. Blavatsky maintained that the the name Satan, belonged by right to the first and cruelest "Adversary" of all other Gods, and not to the serpent which spoke only words of sympathy and wisdom. She somehow reasoned that Satan/Lucifer is GOD the Creator, the Savior, the Father; and that Jesus is "the first born brother of Satan." She wrote, "Satan, the Serpent of Genesis, is the real creator and benefactor, the Father of Spiritual mankind. For it is he ... who opened the eyes of the automaton (Adam) created by Yahweh, as alleged.... An adversary to him ... he still remains in Esoteric Truth the ever loving messenger ... who conferred on us spiritual instead of physical immortality."

    She claimed to have had experience with astral projection and the ability to communicate with the spirit world. Her books, `Isis Unveiled` and her three-volume, `The Secret Doctrine` were supposedly channelled through her by the "Masters of Wisdom," Tibetan `holy men`, which any Christian, Jew or Muslim should recognise as being synonymous with demons.

    In her book, `The Secret Doctrine` Blavatsky wrote, "Lucifer represents life, thought, progress, civilisation, liberty, independence. Lucifer is the Logos, the Serpent, the Saviour" and "It is Lucifer who is the God of our planet and the only God", and she continues, "The celestial Virgin which thus becomes the Mother of Gods and Devils at one and the same time, for she is the ever loving beneficent deity, but in antiquity and reality, Lucifer or Luciferius is the name. Lucifer is the divine and terrestrial light, the Holy Ghost and Satan at one and the same time".

    When Blavatsky died in 1891, Annie Besant, a militant feminist, co mason, and a member of the Fabian Socialist Society of England took over the reigns of leadership. As a close friend of George Bernard Shaw, H.G. Wells, and other leading Fabians, she was in an excellent position to disseminate theosophical ideas in some very influential circles. She took part in revolutionary street riots and wrote numerous occultic works to complement those of Blavatsky.

    After Besant, came Alice Bailey and her husband, Foster Bailey, a 32nd Degree Freemason. Having assumed the leadership of the Theosophical Society together, they formulated and built the foundations of what we now refer to as the New Age Movement. They made no effort to conceal their demonic sympathies, and created the `Lucifer Publishing Company`, along with the theosophical periodical `Lucifer`.Acknowledging that the Christian world at that time, had not been sufficiently undermined for their open preference for the Satanic religion, they renamed their project the `Lucis Publishing Company`. In 1922, they set up `Lucis Trust`, which continues to serve as the umbrella organization for a multitude of One World Government/New Age/Occult sects,cults, organizations and programs that are the main players in the emerging new world religion. These include the Arcane School, World Goodwill, Triangles, Lucis Publishing, Lucis Productions, Lucis Trust Libraries, and the New Group of World Servers.
    The `Plan` as revealed by her `Ascended Master` Djwhal Khul, is documented in her twenty four books, which she says were channelled through her by Khul whilst she was in a trance state.

    This `Plan`, was to usher in the "Harmonic Convergence," also known as the Omega, Mind Convergence, Fusion or Turning Point, which can occur only when nations put aside their differences in a "New World Order" of global unity. When world government and religion are finally realized, the New Age, or the Age of Aquarius, will have dawned. Only then will the Avatar appear, and the implementation of the New World Order fully begin. This "Christ" is also known as Lord Maitraya (see below), said to be awaited also by Jews, Moslems, Buddhists, and Hindus, though he is known by these believers respectively as the Messiah, Imam Mahdi, the fifth Buddha, or Krishna.

    Bailey makes it very clear that there is to also be a world religion: "The spirit has gone out of the old faiths and the true spiritual light is transferring itself into a new form which will manifest on earth eventually as the new world religion. ...Judaism is old, obsolete and separative and has no true message for the spiritually-minded which cannot be better given by the new faiths...the Christian faith also has served its purpose; its Founder seeks to bring a new Gospel and a new message that will enlighten all men everywhere".

    In his book `Terrorism & The Illuminati`, Canadian author, David Livingstone's own investigations revealed that the Lucis Trust is run through an international board of trustees, whose membership is said to have included: John D. Rockefeller, Norman Cousins, Robert S. McNamara, Thomas Watson, Jr. of IBM, and former U.S. Ambassador to Moscow, Henry Clauson, a Grand Commander of the Supreme Council, 33rd Degree, Southern District Scottish Rite, and Henry Kissinger, thus tying Bailey's organization into the various Round Table groups, including the CFR, the Bilderberger group, and the Trilateral Commission.

    When one examines and researches the claims of the New Age Movement, it is all too easy to be sceptical and dismissive, but those leading the way forward in this modern day version of what is in truth `Mystery Babylon` renewed, are working hand in glove with the great and the powerful. Some of the most wealthy and influential men and women on our planet are openly identifying themselves with the New Age. From Bankers, Industrialists, Politicians, Celebrities, it seems everyone is going `New Age` and they are bringing huge swathes of the population along with them. This `spiritual awakening` may be only one aspect of the Illuminati's goal towards One World Government, but it is a major one and may in time prove to be the core element in their plan.

    It would be foolhardy indeed to ignore the growing influence of the New Age, Occult, Satanist, Wicca, and Hedonist phenomena manifesting themselves all around us, without acknowledging that if these trends persist, the day will not be too far off when these forces will be able to make good on their aims.

    As G. K. Chesterton once observed, "If man will not believe in God, the danger is not that he will believe in nothing, but that he will believe in anything."

    `The Christ Is Now Here`! On April 25, 1982, millions of people across the world read the above headline in their daily newspapers, and that, "Throughout history, humanity's evolution has been guided by a group of enlightened men, the Masters of Wisdom, a Spiritual Hierarchy at the center of which stands the World Teacher, Lord Maitreya, known by Christians as the Christ."

    We were told "The Christ" was at that that very time living in the world and would within two months reveal his identity to all mankind. At the same time, the British Theosophist Benjamin Creme commenced a worldwide speaking tour and announced himself spokesman for "the Christ." In numerous interviews and speeches, he explained that it was not Jesus Christ he was acting on behalf of, but the "Master of Wisdom," of whom Jesus, Buddha, Krishna, and others are disciples. Creme's messianic campaign was coordinated by his New Age religious organization, the Tara Center, from its offices in Los Angeles, New York, and London. As Creme's "Lord Maitreya` failed to appear, one would have expected that he and his `Christ, along with all his euphoric Aquarian propaganda would have become completely discredited and irrelevant. But we do not live in an age of reason. Mr Creme is still revered as a leading light of the vast New Age network, and his arcane gospel can be found around the world at UN conferences and programs where the Illuminati Elite of the Club of Rome, Aspen Institute, Council on Foreign Relations, World Federalists, World Bank, etc. consort with New Agers of every imaginable kind.

    The United Nations And The New World Religion. "The underlying philosophy upon which the Robert Muller School is based will be found in the teaching set forth in the books of Alice Bailey as channeled through her by the Demon Tibetan teacher, Djwhal Khul". Robert Muller (Former UN Assistant Secretary General)

    Many critics of the United Nations have described it as a modern day `Tower of Babel`. Most were referring to man's act of spiritual arrogance that the book of Genesis tells us earned God's displeasure. To support such an unflattering characterisation today, one might draw attention to the confusing and combustible assortment of tongues, cultures, ideologies, and politics for which the "house of peace" has become justly infamous. The UN, along with its programs and policies, is ever more worthy of comparison to the Tower of Babel, as rampant idolatry and militant paganism thoroughly permeate the organization.

    The UN is gradually becoming the center of a New World Religion, a strange and evil convergence of New Age mysticism, pantheism, aboriginal animism, atheism, communism, socialism, Luciferian occultism, apostate Christianity, Islam, Taoism, Buddhism, and Hinduism. The followers and disciples of this new faith include Crystal Worshipers, Astrologers, Radical Feminists, Environmentalists, Cabalists, Humanists, Eastern Mystics, Pop Psychologists, and "liberal" clergymen whom one would normally tend to associate with the counterculture of the 1960s. But today's `worshipers` in this `New Age Movement` are just as likely to be scientists, diplomats, corporate presidents, heads of state, international bankers, and leaders of mainstream Christian churches.

    The Rio Earth Summit. "Thus, the environmental movement, while helping to advance the cause of the oil industry, is an extension of the Aquarian conspiracy, incepted by Alice Bailey, designed ultimately to foster the acceptance a one-world-religion, based on the occult, or the New Age, as it is called". David Livingstone.

    In his book `Global Tyranny Step By Step`, William F Jasper writes " At the June 1992 UN Earth Summit in Brazil, the official UN Conference on Environment and Development (UNCED) together with the Global Forum "Peoples Summit" showcased a blending of pagan aboriginal rites with an ecumenical collective of `mystical` and spiritual tenets from East and West to bring into being an unintelligible form of what was called a `Universal Faith`.

    Across the globe, the world media referred to the Rio Declaration and the 800-page blueprint for government action titled Agenda 21 as "sacred" texts. Al Gore, the leader of the U.S. Senate delegation, called for a new spiritual relationship between man and earth. Actress Shirley MacLaine was in attendance in order to add her own strange brand of psychic spirituality to the proceedings. Those Ministers from the World Council of Churches present, were there because of their affinity to the ecumenical "spirit" that uses the Hegelian Dialectic to combine a form of Christianity as thesis, with a pagan spiritualism as antithesis, resulting in a synthesis very akin to the Babylonian Mystery Religions. Another group at the summit, The Union for Natural Environment Protection, an environmental association based in Sao Leopoldo, Brazil, surprisingly declared the following about the true purpose of the W.C. of C's involvement:

    "The environmental movement is being used as a cover to promote a return to the creed of the Ancient Mysteries, in the form of the worship of mother-nature, a pagan notion that equates the goddess with earth, known among the ancient Greeks as Gaia. Originally, she is the Babylonian Ishtar, known to the Bible as Astarte, or the Egyptian Isis. This pantheistic idea has its origins in ancient paganism, and is central to the Kabbalah and all Western occult tradition, including Freemasonry and the Illuminati. Plato wrote: "We shall affirm that the cosmos, more than anything else, resembles most closely that living Creature of which all other living creatures, severally or genetically, are portion; a living creature which is fairest of all and in ways most perfect." Known as Anima Mundi, the "Soul of the World", it is related to the concept of the Neoplatonists, the Logos, or the Word, also known as the "Son of God", or the ancient dying God"

    It should be apparent to the reader that a `nexus` has been formed, connecting the major players in the push towards the One World Dictatorship, with the United Nations, The New Age Movement, and the `Greens` all interlocking at the top, with the `hidden hand` of the Illuminati pulling the strings in the background as the driving force moving us all inexorably towards the New World Order.

    The Illuminaries. Canadian Multi Millionaire Industrialist Maurice Strong , a former trustee of the Aspen Institute for Humanistic Studies and a member of the advisory council of Planetary Citizens, is a major force within the Environmental and New Age Movements. He sits on the board of directors and serves as director of finance of the Lindisfarne Center, which is located in the Episcopal Cathedral of St. John the Divine in New York, and its operation all facilitated by grants from the Lilly Endowment, the Rockefeller Brothers Fund, and the Rockefeller Foundation.
    The Institute numbers among its faculty members the `Eco-Radical` Amory Lovins and Luciferian Adept and New Age author David Spangler. We can gain some appreciation as to what is being taught at this Rockerfeller funded institute by reading Mr. Spangler's books, such as `Reflections on the Christ`, wherein he writes:

    "Lucifer, like Christ, stands at the door of man's consciousness and knocks. If man says, go away because I do not like what you represent, I am afraid of you, Lucifer will play tricks on that fellow. If man says, "Come in, and I will give to you the treat of my love and understanding and I will uplift you in the light and presence of the Christ, my outflow," then Lucifer becomes something else again. He becomes the being who carries that great treat, the ultimate treat, the light of wisdom. The reason man has come to fear Lucifer is not so much that he represents evil as because he represents experience which causes us to grow and to move beyond the levels where we have been.... Lucifer is literally the angel of experience."

    Spangler, Muller, Strong, and a host of other `names`, such as Queen Juliana of the Netherlands, Sir Edmund Hillary, Peter Ustinov, Kurt Vonnegut, Leonard Bernstein, Isaac Asimov, and Pete Seeger, are all listed as being original endorsers of the world-government-promoting Planetary Citizens. Founded by New Age luminary and former UN consultant Donald Keys, and presided over for many years by the lateNorman Cousins (CFR), the Planetary Citizens Organization has brought together and made very good use of the prestige of many leading world figures to support expansion of UN power and it's institutions.Keys, a self confessed disciple of Alice Bailey, refers to the United Nations as "the nexus of emerging planetary values" and expresses the hope that it will establish a "planetary management system.".(New Age Speak for World Government).

    Another original endorser of Planetary Citizens was Aurelio Peccei, the founder of the Club of Rome, which although initially recognised for its role in launching "no growth" environmentalism in the 1970s, has `waxed` increasingly "spiritual" in more recent years. Their quest for spiritual `wisdom` includes slavish adherence to the Blavatsky mandate dictating that Christianity, Islam, and Judaism are either excluded or denigrated.

    One of the primary avenues through which this lean toward oriental spiritualism has been spread is the Temple of Understanding, located at the same Cathedral of St. John the Divine that houses the Lindisfarne Luciferians. Begun in the early 1960s as the "spiritual counterpart of the United Nations," its founding sponsors included the following odd assortment of Establishment Insiders, socialists, humanists, communist fronts, religious figures, and entertainment celebrities:

    John D. Rockefeller IV
    then-Secretary of Defense Robert S. McNamara
    Planned Parenthood founder Margaret Sanger
    IBM president Thomas J. Watson
    Socialist Party leader Norman Thomas
    Eleanor Roosevelt
    Time-Life president James A. Linen
    homosexual author Christopher Isherwood
    columnist Max Lerner
    entertainer Jack Benny
    With people such as the these in the vanguard, the U N's pagan spiritualism will grow ever more overt and assertive. The UN report entitled `The New International Economic Order A Spiritual Imperative` proclaims; "Today a new understanding of spirituality is emerging which recognizes that all efforts to uplift humanity are spiritual in nature. Alice Bailey said, "That is spiritual which lies beyond the point of present achievement...." ... Given this new understanding of spirituality, the work of the United Nations can be ... seen within the entire evolutionary unfoldment of humanity. The work of the U.N. is indeed spiritual and holds profound import for the future of civilization."

    The Pantheistic Smokescreen. "When you worship the sun, moon, stars, a statue, or even yourself, Lucifer is leading you astray. You are not to worship things that were created; instead you are to worship the creator. To worship anything other than the creator is giving heed to Lucifer". Fritz Springmeier `Be Wise As Serpents`.

    Since "God" in the pantheistic metaphysical system is not the almighty God of the Bible, but an impersonal, immanent force that occupies all things, then all things; the universe itself, every rock, every tree, everything, every man, every woman are "God." In this pagan world view, man is not a special creation of the one, true God, to whom, ultimately, he is answerable to. Nor is he endowed by his Creator with intrinsic, inalienable rights and duties. Thus pantheism "functions as an effective device in the undermining of a God-centered religion by transforming religion into a man-centered belief system, and thereby giving a religious sanction to the doctrines and programs of political collectivism. Pantheism can be also be utilised as a step towards bringing humanity from theism to atheistic materialism. In religion, pantheism is most often expressed as Naturalism; the doctrine that religious truth is derived from nature, not revelation.

    The June 1941 issue of the occult journal `Rosicrucian Digest` predicted that "The multiplicity of social states, countries, or nations will cease to be." That nations would be superseded by "The One United World State." The Rosicrucian's were correct in concluding that the `mystical-pantheism` they advocated would, if generally accepted, lead to a collectivist world state. And there are far too few people in the world today who understand the direct cause-and-effect relationship between the two. Father Clarence Kelly, a noted authority on occult deception writes; "Pantheism is a favorite doctrine of collectivists, because it offers a concept of man which, on religious grounds, subordinates the individual to the collective."

    Hitler And The Vril. It was Neo-Paganism that helped create the conditions which paved the way for the totalitarian collectivism of the Third Reich. The Nazi high priesthood - Hitler, Himmler, Rahn, Rosenberg, Hess, Feder, Sebot, et al. were all ardent theosophists, and their esoteric societies (the Thule, Vril, Seekers of the Grail) were steeped in the same occultism and pantheism so prevalent in today's New Age and environmental movements.

    There is a wealth of evidence that Hitler considered himself `chosen` and he is on record as having said; "I have seen the `New Man` and he is indeed terrible". It is evident that Hitler was deeply involved in the occult and that he believed that his murderous reign of terror was a `divine` mission on behalf of what he termed the `Ancient Aryan Masters`. Dietrich Eckart, a master Adept of the Thule Society and Hitlers' occult mentor, wrote, "Hitler will dance, but it is I who will call the tune! I have initiated him into the Secret Doctrine, opened his centers of vision and given him means to communicate with the powers".

    In the final chapter of his book, `The Twisted Cross`, Joseph Carr draws frightening parallels between Nazism and the New Age Movement; "One cannot argue against the claim that the Nazi world view and major elements of the New Age Movement are identical. They should be, after all for they both grew out of the same occult root: Theosophy. Their respective cosmogony, cosmology and philosophies are identical".

    The New Age and the One World Government conspiracy are intrinsic and inseparable.. Although all the various sects and cults which make up `Pantheism` may appear diverse and separate, all the basic elements are the same for the various gnostic hierarchical religions, they just have a different focus. They operate off the same principles and cooperate and function together. What are ostensibly separate and independent religious groups are actually at the very top working together and run by the same cabal in the service of the same master.

    In his epic work on the One World Religion, `Be Wise As Serpents` Fritz Springmeier answers the question most of us have asked; "Do the leaders of the cults know what is going on? In authoritative fashion, Mr Springmeier answers, "Yes, they have been orally, emphasis on that word orally told exactly what is happening. The leaders of the New Age, the Jehovah's Witnesses, and the Latter Day Saints church know what they are up to, and what their roles are in creating a one-world government".

    The Solar Logos. Throughout the Ancient World, the Sun was worshipped in many guises as God. In Babylon it was Nimrod, in Egypt- Osiris, the Canaanites worshipped Baal and in Greece, it was Apollo. The New Age Sun God is called the `Solar Logos` or `The Word` thereby blasphemously counterfeiting the Biblical Jesus Christ. In her book, `Rays and Initiations`, Alice Bailey reveals this Solar Logos as Lucifer himself. Today, as in millenia past, the Sun God is being worshipped by the New Age as divine.

    David Spangler, refers to the Sun God in these terms: "The light that reveals to us the path to the New Age `Christ` comes from Lucifer. He is the light giver. It is his light that heralds for man the dawn of a greater consciousness. The true light of this great being can only be recognised when one's own eyes see with the light of the inner sun. It is an invitation into the New Age "
    The ancient doctrine of the Sun God or Solar Logos melds itself easily with Pantheism, which as we have seen is at the moment a core dogma of the New Age. By denying the existence of a personal God, whilst insisting that the universe itself is God, New Agers declare that as man is part of the universe, man is also God. The Luciferian master plan cannot succeed unless people accept that there is no God who loves and cares for them. Therefore, accepting that the Moon, the Stars, the Galaxies are all Gods in themselves, the New Age Sun God or Solar Logos as humanity's master becomes a required tenet of belief and we can establish that throughout man's history, all `Sun God's have been nothing more than guises for the great deceiver, Lucifer.

    Witches believe that Lucifer is the God of the Sun, and the Sun God is also known as the `Horned God` (Lucifer is also known as the "Angel of Light). Many of the Witch's holy days revolve around the Sun such as the Yule. A large part of their belief system is the concept of the Sun weakening and the world dying, then on the Winter Solstice the Sun God Lucifer is reborn and warms the Earth. To the Ancient Latin people's, Lucifer was the Sun God, father of Aradia and the brother and lover of Diana.

    To appreciate how this adversary of God has been able to clandestinely insinuate himself into our lives, we only have to look all around at the plethora of pagan sun symbolism which now proliferate throughout society. One example of this can be found in the world of female bodybuilding, where each year, a trophy shaped in a design used to symbolize the worship of Lucifer is awarded at a major I.F.B.B. women's bodybuilding event. The meaning of this trophy is hidden from most everyone but a select few who are initiated. The trophy is in the form of an obelisk, which to those unfamiliar is a tapering, four-sided shaft that has a pyramidal top. The obelisk is a symbol that definitely has connections to Freemasonry. The obelisk is important to Masons and has roots in ancient Egypt. It is the symbol of a god worshipped by believers involved in the ancient mysteries
    The obelisk represents the Sun God Lucifer. The sun is also a major Masonic symbol. Albert Pike, who we deal with below wrote: "The sun is the ancient symbol of the life-giving and generative power of theDeity."

    Ralph Epperson, a historian and lecturer on the subject writes: "The sun was a symbol of something that only the believers in the religion...understood. These believers, ...knew that the people would not accept their mystery religion, so they had to conceal it from them. So the task became one of creating a religion around a belief that they knew the people would accept. Their basic purpose was to create a popular religion as a cover for their secret worship. They would have to keep their beliefs from the people, and conceal their secret worship in hidden symbols." Epperson continues: "The obelisk stands for the very presence of the sun god! And the sun god is Lucifer!"

    The World Religion Exposed. "The Gnostic religions are often called pagan. This pagan worship is often the exoteric cover that the first levels are initiated into. The highest level is often the real esoteric worship, and often involves direct Luciferian or Satanic worship. In other words, the Sun worship of the Masons and other groups is a fig leaf for the worship by the highest levels of the Divine Serpent Satan". Fritz Springmeier `Be Wise As Serpents `.

    "According to Alice Bailey, the Masonic movement will be the religion of the New System. Benjamin Creme, also believes Freemasonry will be the religion of the New Age. Lola Davis, another New Age leader, also sees Freemasonry as the New Age Religion" (Texe Marrs: Dark Secrets of the New Age).

    Alice Bailey wrote in 1957, "The Masonic movement... is the custodian of the law; it is the home of the Mysteries and the seat of initiation. It holds in its symbolism the ritual of Deity, and the way of salvation is pictorially preserved in its work. It is a far more occult organization than can be realised, and is intended to be the training school for the coming advanced occultists. In its ceremonials lie hid the wielding of the forces connected with the growth and life of the kingdoms of nature and the unfoldment of the divine aspects in man."

    "When the new universal religion has sway and the nature of esotericism is understood-will be the utilisation of the banded esoteric organisms, the Masonic organism and the Church organism as initiating centres. These three groups converge as their inner sanctuaries are approached. There is no dissociation between the One Universal Church, the sacred inner Lodge of all true Masons, and the inner-most circles of esoteric societies." (Taken from `Be Wise As Serpents by Fritz Springmeier).

    Has Freemasonry been underestimated as a world religion? At least one Masonic author writing to Masons felt that Masonic religious power had been underestimated. He writes,"In the past Masonry has been condemned as a shallow substitute for religion. This the Masonic body has always denied but in fact the new age revitalised Masonry will be a paralleling evolutionary way of man's approach to God, and Masonry and religion will gladly cooperate." --The Spirit of Masonry, p. 129

    Albert Pike (December 29, 1809­April 2, 1891). Albert Pike was a Luciferian who confessed Lucifer as his own God see (below quote). He was the former Sovereign General of The Supreme Council Of Grand Sovereign Inspectors, General of the 33rd Degree of The Scottish Rite. There is also compelling evidence that he founded the Ku Klux Klan.. Pike can be justifiably regarded as the most influential Freemason who ever lived. During the American Civil War, he was a confederate general who is said to have committed the most heinous atrocities of the war, yet his tomb is located just thirteen blocks from the Capitol Building in Washington DC. He was a high ranking member of the Illuminati who is still revered by the New World Order Cabal.

    In his book `Morals and Dogma`, Pike confirmed for posterity that the God of the Illuminati and the New World Order is Lucifer. He wrote; "The Masonic religion should be, by all of us initiates of the high degrees, maintained in the purity of the Luciferian doctrine. . . Yes, Lucifer is God, and unfortunately Adonay (Jesus) is also God. For the eternal law is that there is no light without shade, no beauty without ugliness, no white without black, for the absolute can only exist as two Gods: darkness being necessary to light to serve as its foil as the pedestal is necessary to the statue, and the brake to the locomotive. "

    Pike asserted boldly and unequivocally in his book that Freemasonry is identical to the ancient mysteries, which clearly means that all their teachings in all their books are precisely the same as the Ancient, Pagan, Satanic Mysteries! Pike continues in Morals and Dogma " The true and pure philosophic religion is the belief in Lucifer, the equal of Adonay (Jesus); but Lucifer, God of Light and God of Good, is struggling for humanity against Adonay, the God of darkness and evil."

    Is Freemasonry The Worship Of Lucifer? There has been extensive debate as to whom the true god of Freemasonry really is. Below, I have listed some quotes from Masonic Authorities which will help clarify this piece of the puzzle. It should be understood that most Blue Degree Masons are not in thrall to Lucifer, but higher level `initiates` must participate in rituals which involve drinking from skulls whilst kneeling prostrate at a black alter adorned with serpents.

    We should furthermore take pains to know who Lucifer really is. The King James Bible records his fall from heaven following his rebellion against God thus: "How art thou fallen from heaven O Lucifer, son of the morning! How are thou cut down to the ground which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God. I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north. I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most high, yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit". Isaiah 14:12-15.

    The Scriptures name Lucifer as "That old serpent called the Devil and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world". Revelation 12:9.
    Deception in Freemasonry is witnessed time and again as one goes ever deeper into it's darkness. Albert Pike in his `Morals and Dogma writes," Masonry like all the religions, all the mysteries, conceals it's secret from all except the Adepts and Sages, or the elect, and uses false explanations and misinterpretations of it's symbols to mislead those who deserve only to be mislead. The Blue Degrees are but the outer court or portico of the Temple. Part of the symbols are displayed there to the Initiate, but he is intentionally mislead by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them, but it is intended he shall imagine he understands them".

    Quotes affirming Lucifer as the God of Fremasonry:
    "First conjuration address to Emperor Lucifer, Master and Prince of rebellious spirits, I adjure thee to leave thine abode in what ever quarter of the world it may be situated and come hither to communicate with me. I command and I conjure thee in thy name oh mighty living god, to appear without noise". The Book Of Black Magic by Arthur Edward Waite 33rd Degree Mason.

    "I hereby promise the Great Spirit Lucifuge, Prince Of Demons, that each year, I will bring unto him a human soul to do with as it may please him, and in return, Lucifuge promises to bestow upon me the treasures of the earth and fulfill my every desire for the length of my natural life. If I fail to bring him each year the offering specified above, then my own soul shall be forfeit to him". Signed in blood, Manly Palmer Hall 33rd Degree Freemason from his book `The Secret Teaching Of All Ages`.

    "When the Mason learns that the key to the warrior on the block is the proper application of the dynamo of living power, he has learned the Mystery of his Craft. The seething energies of Lucifer are in his hands and before he may step onward and upward, he must prove his ability to properly apply this energy". Manly Palmer Hall 33rd Degree `The Lost Keys Of Freemasonry`.

    " That which we must say to a crowd is; We worship a God, but it is the God that one adores without superstition. To you Sovereign Grand Inspectors General, we say this, that you may repeat it to the brethren of the 32nd, 31st, and 30th degrees. The Masonic Religion should be, by all of us initiates of the High degrees, maintained in the purity of the Luciferian Doctrine". Albert Pike 33 rd Degree.

    " Lucifer, the son of the morning! Is it he who bears the light, and with it's splendours intolerable blinds feeble, sensual, or selfish souls? Doubt it not!" Albert Pike 33rd Degree.

    Freemasonry is truly the worship of Lucifer. Once this is understood, it becomes clear as to why they have been so anxious all these centuries to keep the lid of secrecy tightly screwed down, for if people really understood that Masonry is a worship of Lucifer, no one would join, and the citizens of most communities would rise up as one to demand that the organization be completely outlawed. Thus, you have secrets within secrets , wheels within wheels, just as the above quotes confirm.

    The Light Bearer Returns. Many believe that the New Age Movement is little more than a collection of old Hippies, Feminists and `wannabe` mystics chanting and praying to who knows what or why. But that is so far from the reality of what is a dangerous and desperate situation, as the Illuminati and their co conspirators in the New Age, through use of all the weapons of media control and information available to them, drive their New World Order project to it's logical conclusion, whilst we the people sleep walk into their `Aquarian` Dictatorship.

    In his book `Terrorism And The Illuminati`, the Canadian author David Livingstone writes: "The Illuminati claim to be descended of Fallen Angels, who taught them the "Ancient Wisdom", also known as the Kabbalah, which they have been preserving throughout the centuries. These Fallen Angels are referred to in the Bible, Book of Genesis, as the Nephilim, or "Sons of God", and were said to have descended to earth and intermarried with human beings. Christian interpretations struggle with the passage, choosing to translate the term into "mighty men". However, apocryphal Jewish texts explain that they were the devil and his legions, who were cast out of Heaven, and took wives from the female descendants of Cain. They produced a race known as the Anakim".

    It is a well researched hypothesis that it is these `Anakim` or rather their descendent's who now occupy all the positions of real power in our world. Whether they are truly the children of the Nephilim is irrelevant so long as they themselves believe that it is, and use this assumed `divine` right to rule in order to justify the increasing oppression, control and terror being enacted on all our lives.

    Conclusion: The Luciferian New Age of Aquarius is here right now and mankind has joined in rebellion against it's creator. We are giving to people, who now publicly exclaim their worship of God and man's greatest and original adversary, free reign to lead us into hell on earth in the shape of a diabolical One World tyrannical state, and the United Nations is the international temple at which humanity, through it's political and religious leaders pays homage to him, the Light Bearer - Lucifer.

    "And he shall exalt himself and magnify himself above every God, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished; for that which is determined shall be done (Dan. 11:36).

    Reference and Further Reading.
    http://www.unol.org/rms/wcc.html Robert Muller
    http://www.robertmuller.org/
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_A._Bailey
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madame_Blavatsky
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maurice_Strong#Becoming_an_entrepreneur
    Wanda Marrs : New Age Lies To Women p34
    http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/pike.htm
    (http://www.scarletsbookofshadows.freewebspace.com/whats_new.html) Wicca
    http://www.museumofwitchcraft.com/about_mow19.php) Wicca
    Terrorism & The Illuminati by David Livingstone http://www.terrorism-illuminati.com/book/toc.html
    666 Illuminati by William Josiah Sutton http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/newage_illuminati/contents.htm
    Be Wise As Serpents by Fritz Springmeier.
    Global Tyranny Step By Step by William F Jasper.
    Any of the Books on the New Age by Texe and Wanda Marrs.
    The Holy Scriptures New English Bible and King James Version.
    http://www.geocities.com/endtimedeception/worship.htm
    http://cuttingedge.org/free11.html
    http://cuttingedge.org/free11.html
    http://www.masonicinfo.com/pike.htm
    The Hidden Secrets Of The Rainbow by Constance E. Cumbey.

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    Re: Who is Lucifer? What are they doing?

    Post  Mercuriel on Sat Dec 25, 2010 6:30 pm

    And through those who descend directly from his line, and their puppets, he is causing havoc and chaos in an attempt to seat himself, or his proxy on the throne of a World State, and to inaugurate a New Religion with himself it's sole deity.

    Have You heard of Co-ordinate Representation ? If so please say You have and I'll skip the explanation of It and get to the meaning of why I talk about It here in this instance. Once I know that I will continue on in a subsequent Post about what I actually think has happened to all of the Fragments of the Oversoul - Lucifer.

    Before I do that however I would like to display some basic faults in Logic with not only the above Piece - But more overtly the Doctrines these Negatives espouse and currently promote (And no I do not mean the Author).

    As Creme's "Lord Maitreya` failed to appear, one would have expected that he and his `Christ, along with all his euphoric Aquarian propaganda would have become completely discredited and irrelevant. But we do not live in an age of reason. Mr Creme is still revered as a leading light of the vast New Age network, and his arcane gospel can be found around the world at UN conferences and programs where the Illuminati Elite of the Club of Rome, Aspen Institute, Council on Foreign Relations, World Federalists, World Bank, etc. consort with New Agers of every imaginable kind.

    Hmmm - Seems like the best laid plans of Mice and Devils went wrong there - No ? And BTW - There are still hang-ups and problems as all is not set for Them - Even yet.

    Originally, she is the Babylonian Ishtar, known to the Bible as Astarte, or the Egyptian Isis. This pantheistic idea has its origins in ancient paganism, and is central to the Kabbalah and all Western occult tradition, including Freemasonry and the Illuminati.

    Ninmah = Ishtar = Isis = Astarte = An Annunaki / S.a.A.M.i. of Royal Birth.

    "How art thou fallen from heaven O Lucifer, son of the morning! How are thou cut down to the ground which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God. I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north. I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most high, yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit". Isaiah 14:12-15.

    Please let Me show You where the Logic fails here. If Lucifer is indeed One Part of God and Yeshua the Other then Who cuts Him down in the above example ? Yeshua or God ?

    Now aren't They taught by Theosophists or at least A. Pike and A. Bailey as being two sides of the same Coin ? So then One side of the Coin cut down the other side ? I would say Nay as that would destroy the Coin. Additionally - To exalt Your Throne above the Stars of God does seem to imply greater Deity than that of Lucifer and even Yeshua - No ?

    Wink

    I will continue with this Logic below.

    "First conjuration address to Emperor Lucifer, Master and Prince of rebellious spirits, I adjure thee to leave thine abode in what ever quarter of the world it may be situated and come hither to communicate with me. I command and I conjure thee in thy name oh mighty living god, to appear without noise". The Book Of Black Magic by Arthur Edward Waite 33rd Degree Mason.

    -//-

    "I hereby promise the Great Spirit Lucifuge, Prince Of Demons, that each year, I will bring unto him a human soul to do with as it may please him, and in return, Lucifuge promises to bestow upon me the treasures of the earth and fulfill my every desire for the length of my natural life. If I fail to bring him each year the offering specified above, then my own soul shall be forfeit to him". Signed in blood, Manly Palmer Hall 33rd Degree Freemason from his book 'The Secret Teaching Of All Ages'.

    -//-

    "And he shall exalt himself and magnify himself above every God, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished; for that which is determined shall be done (Dan. 11:36)."

    > Being referred as a Prince implies being part of a Heirarchy above the Prince - No ?

    > It also seems that in the first example of the Conjuration above - This Prince is seemingly conjured in the Name of the "Oh Mighty Living God" again implying a Heirarchy or at least a Mechanism above and originating Lucifer / This spoken of Prince - In the first place.

    > Again in the second example - This Being is referred to as a Prince and not a King which with the Dogma as espoused by Pike - Seems incongruent now - No ?

    > Now lastly in the Third example quoted by the Author of this piece - We see in Dan 11:36 that this Being will be speaking things against "The God of Gods" (Namely Creator of this Local System).

    To finish off this Post and not leave You hanging - I'm preparing a reply to You about the whole Lucifer is Existant / Non-existant Issue which I will Post to You tomorrow. I merely wanted to drop this little Post here so as to show You We will indeed get somewhere in all of this discussion no matter whether You think You are talking to only Yourself - Or not...

    -//-

    It should be obvious You're not...

    cheers


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    Re: Who is Lucifer? What are they doing?

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Sat Dec 25, 2010 6:54 pm

    Thank-you Mercuriel. You obviously know a lot more about this subject than I do. I don't mind if you repeat things - or tell me things that I already know. Review is often beneficial. I continue to thrash around the internet - looking here and there - and I'm not even sure what I'm looking for. If I am ever flippant or sarcastic - please don't take it personally. I am just a very frustrated and fearful human being - who thinks things are going to continue to be bad - for a very long time.
    I'm just trying to find more sane ways to manage the insanity. Mad 1 Nuke Nutbar Luke Luke
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    Re: Who is Lucifer? What are they doing?

    Post  Mercuriel on Sat Dec 25, 2010 7:02 pm

    Always know this Oxy - You satisfy the Law of Allowance for Me with is integral. With Your questions being asked - I am allowed to answer but all else would be preaching so please My Brother - Continue to hash - rehash - And ask away as this is one of the Main reasons I am so grateful for You being here.

    We have a partnership You and I and I feel It is one We will not fully understand until We have been successful in getting to the bottom of It All...

    That said - In this I have great Love for You...

    Wink


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    Re: Who is Lucifer? What are they doing?

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Sat Dec 25, 2010 7:25 pm

    Thank-you Mercuriel. I deeply appreciate what you are doing. I'm not very friendly, and I'm not very smart - and I have huge issues and problems - so don't expect too much from me. I have a pathological interest in the hidden things of the universe - which is frankly unbalanced. But having said that - all of this is still extremely important - and some of the most incapable and incompetent people on the planet may get stuck with trying to figure out a lot of very complicated and upsetting material. The best and the brightest may be too busy being rich, famous, and powerful.

    One more time - I keep watching the following - and facing myself - and thinking, and thinking, and thinking... Blowdup

    1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZEPUfmfIsE

    2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyKy8_sF4xY

    3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8YK_ad7Us0&feature=related

    4. http://www.hulu.com/watch/108637/stargate-sg-1-the-powers-that-be

    5. http://www.hulu.com/watch/62967/stargate-sg-1-hathor

    6. http://www.hulu.com/watch/62950/stargate-sg-1-the-first-commandment


    Last edited by orthodoxymoron on Sat Dec 25, 2010 9:33 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    Re: Who is Lucifer? What are they doing?

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Sat Dec 25, 2010 9:09 pm

    I have done a lot of speculating and questioning. I don't feel confident about any of it. I would fall flat on my face in a debate. But still I continue. I keep trying to stop. I found a video series which confirms so much of my earlier conjecturings - and which has left me stunned. I think there is a sweet-spot between traditional religion and the new age. I don't go to church anymore - and I don't go to new age seminars or Whole Life Expos - but I think we should study theology and new age topics - very thoroughly and carefully. Please give this video series your undivided attention. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4XvotlAzrQ Kali is the Sirius Star of this series!



    Lucifer Images: http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGIR_enUS216US217&q=lucifer+images

    Kali Images: http://www.google.com/images?rlz=1T4GGIR_enUS216US217&q=kali+images&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&ei=IYKjTJHTE5KasAOfhNH6Bg&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CCkQsAQwAA

    Semiramis Images: http://www.google.com/images?rlz=1T4GGIR_enUS216US217&q=semiramis+images&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&ei=q5-8TKu3BYu8sQOUptmPDw&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CCUQsAQwAA

    Persephone Images: http://www.google.com/images?q=persephone+images&um=1&hl=en&rlz=1T4GGIR_enUS216US217&tbs=isch:1&ei=lJ68TKWIJoHAsAOr9_3sDg&sa=N&start=0&ndsp=18

    Lilith Images: http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGIR_enUS216US217&q=lilith+images

    Ishtar Images: http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=1&oq=ishtar+im&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGIR_enUS216US217&q=ishtar+images

    Hathor Images: http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGIR_enUS216US217&q=hathor+images

    Isis Images: http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGIR_enUS216US217&q=isis+images

    Queen of Heaven Images: http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGIR_enUS216US217&q=queen+of+heaven+images



    I think we should study the esoteric subjects exhaustively - but I think this is a very, very dangerous pursuit - and one should use extreme caution. We are not as smart as we think we are - and we are easily confused and deceived. Try reading the Four Gospels over and over again - while researching the esoteric - to maintain a central frame of reference - a sort of a refuge. In the current infowar - I think a lot of people are going to lose their faiths - and their minds. Hang in there!

    I'd really like to know the full and true story of Promethius (Lucifer?) stealing fire from the gods. I'm sensing a very sad and violent history of the universe. I'm sensing that we are in the middle of a continuing War in Heaven. I'm also sensing that we are in one helluva lot of trouble. We need to exhaustively understand the proper relationship between freedom and responsibility. I think we need a Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom Solar System. Hope springs eternal.

    Enter 'Rise of the Fourth Reich' in the YouTube search field. Also enter 'Teutonic Zionism'. Notice the ancient Babylonian, Egyptian, Grecian, and Roman themes in the art, architecture, and symbology of the Nazi Party. Consider the possible role of a Secret Government, Secret Space Program, and Underground Bases in the Rise of the Third Reich. How did the Germans get so much money, technology, and power so quickly? Google 'omega files' and 'Branton'. Watch 'The Secret Underground Lectures of Commander X' on Google.

    Lucifer = Lilith = Hathor = Kali = Isis = Mary = Inanna = Anna (in the TV series 'V') = Whore of Babylon ruling Babylon aka the Secret Government, United Nations, Washington DC, City of London, Vatican, Jesuits, Alphabet Agents, Royal Family, Zionism, Teutonic Zionism, Secret Space Program, and Underground Bases? How much trouble are we in? We need a Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom Solar System aka United States of the Solar System based on the US Constitution and Responsibility.

    I have no animosity toward anyone, including the individuals and institutions listed above. All of this is speculation (for me anyway). We need to get informed without getting mad or going mad. This should be a high-ground infowar. There should be no angry finger-pointing. I keep envisioning an ideal and open Solar System Government - which includes the UN, Washington DC, City of London, Vatican, Underground Bases, and Secret Space Program - based on the US Constitution and Responsibility.

    Protestantism is really Reformed Catholicism. They never ventured too far away from Mother Church. I think this applies to SDA's as well. I continue to read from Ellen White books on an almost daily basis - but I think that Adventism is a mixture of truth and error. I think I understand some understandable reasons for this. I think that just about everyone on the planet is in for a rude awakening about a lot of things - and this includes SDA's. We are in a huge spiritual war.

    The Roman Catholic Church seems to be a continuation of Ancient Babylonian Egyptian Grecian Roman Luciferianism. The problem is compounded by the observation that it seems that Protestantism is more dependent on Catholicism than they would like to admit. What if Lucifer plays the parts of both God and Satan? What if Lucifer essentially wrote the Bible and the Quran? I continue to reverence the Red Letter Teachings of Jesus.

    How about basing the Solar System on the U.S. Constitution and Responsibility. The First and Last Commandment should be 'Thou Shalt Have No Gods'. I think the Creator God of the Universe would agree. Oh - I know that sounds like an orthodoxymoron - but I really don't think that the real God is on any sort of an ego-trip - and I do think that they would condemn any type of self-exaltation, rulership, exploitation, or enslavement. I think we have false gods and goddesses in this neck of the woods.

    "In that vast throng are multitudes of the long-lived race that existed before the Flood; men of lofty stature and giant intellect, who, yielding to the control of fallen angels, devoted all their skill and knowledge to the exaltation of themselves; men whose wonderful works of art led the world to idolize their genius, but whose cruelty and evil inventions, defiling the earth and defacing the image of God, caused Him to blot them from the face of His creation."- Great Controversy by Ellen White.

    What if the Holy Bible, the Quran, and most of the ancient mythologies and theologies were essentially authored by Lucifer? If this is true, or partially true, might this be a mixture of good and evil, truth and error? We should consider all of the possibilities, shouldn't we? Is the Father of Lies a Real Mother - namely Kali? Or Hathor on a bad day? Do we have a Sirius-Centered Babylonian, Egyptian, Grecian, Roman Theocracy - founded in Tibet - and ruled by an Apostolic Succession of Goddesses?

    Did the Whore of Babylon sell-out to Satan - or did/does she serve as a Mediatrix between Satan and Humanity? Is Kali a human/reptile hybrid (who appears to be completely human)? Is Satan a human/reptile hybrid (who appears as a Draconian Reptilian 'Alien')? I keep thinking that Lucifer/Lilith/Hathor/Kali/Isi­s/Mary is the Whore of Babylon who has ruled the world for a long, long time. I keep trying to get her to go out with me on a debate date to discuss galactic issues and transition of power!

    Is there a way to harmonize the Latin Mass, the Teachings of Jesus, and the U.S. Constitution? Would this be a Spiritual Switzerland or a Heretical Hell? The ultimate goal would be a Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom Solar System aka The United States of the Solar System. It seems that Roman Catholicism would be opposed to such a concept. It further seems that Roman Catholicism is really Babylonian, Egyptian, Grecian Romanism - rather than an outworking of the Teachings of Jesus.

    It seems as though we may be dealing with a worldwide network of Underground Bases and Cities (connected by mach II magneto-leviton trains?) - inhabited by Nephilim (or by beings who are not completely human - as we know human to be) - who rule the world by secrecy and deception. The Deep Underground Military Bases (such as Dulce) seem to be an integral part of all of this. It further seems as though they are smarter than us - expect reverential worship - and can be very cruel.

    Watch 'Hathor' and 'Powers That Be' on hulu(dot)com. Then watch all of the 'V' video clips on YouTube. Do they tie into this series? A reliable source told me that a priest once asked 'What if God is a Black Woman?' Watch the movie 'Avatar' and read between the lines. Google 'Morena Baccarin - Stargate SG1' and watch all of the episodes in which she appears. Does Kali possess technology beyond our wildest dreams? Could this be ancient human technology? We need to know the truth even if it hurts.

    Please consider this video series and my comments very carefully. This could all be very important. I have chosen to ask a lot of questions and make a lot of speculations on the internet in appropriate settings - such as in this video series. This subject could be very, very upsetting to a lot of people - and extreme caution should be exercised in discussing it. I'm hoping for a happy ending to all of this - but I suspect that things may get a lot worse before they get better. Hang on!

    Watch 'Stargate - Devil Came to Me' and 'Leo Zagami - 2012 Armageddon' on YouTube. Watch them several times. Watch the Stargate clip with the sound off - and use the sound from the Zagami clip. Is there a match? Is this a representation of Kali? Is Kali ultimately responsible for 9/11? Watch 'Lone Gunman - 9/11' and notice the young woman at the computer.

    Watch 'UFO's and the Secret Government' by Bill Cooper - Alex Collier videos - and Alex Jones videos - on Google Video or YouTube - and place Kali and the Nephilim at the center of things. Are we Prisoners of War on a Prison Planet with Grey Guards, a Human/Reptile Hybrid Warden, and a Draconian Reptilian God of This World? Also - get the book 'Soldiers of Reason' regarding the Rand Corporation. All of this seems to be interconnected - and may require a huge amount of research to figure everything out.

    Notice the last paragraph at 9:55 in part 14. Is this getting at the heart of the matter? There is a Stargate SG-1 episode called 'Fire and Water' which contains key phrases which relate to this paragraph. Watch 'Riddles in Stone' to get some insight into who Nicholas Roerich was, and the importance of the Dog Star Sirius. What if the Trinity (triple) Goddess consists of Gabriel, Michael, and Lucifer? The Creator God of the Universe seems to be strangely absent throughout history. I'm fearing the worst.

    I'm really trying to educate and condition myself to be completely objective and detached - without much emotion - so that I could easily interact with everyone - including Illuminati, Popes, Presidents, Jesuits, Alphabet Agents, Generals, Professors, Greys, Reptilians, Hybrids, Angels, Demons, Archangels - Satan and Kali. Basically I'm a nobody imagining what it might be like to be a somebody - without selling my soul to you know who. It's a nasty job - but someone's gotta do it! Right Lucifer?

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    Re: Who is Lucifer? What are they doing?

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Sun Dec 26, 2010 12:16 am

    Could St. Germain have been a representative or manifestation of Lucifer? I get the distinct impression that Lucifer gets around - a lot. Check this out. http://www.thejinn.net/ascended_master.htm



    The "Ascended Master" Types and My Encounter With St. Germain

    St. Germain doesn't claim to be a saint. He claims to be an "Ascended Master", but the name is typical of jinn obfuscation. He appears to enjoy being venerated like a saint.

    The Comte de St. Germain was well known to the court of King Louis XV of France as an alchemist, a linguist, and a man of great wealth, memory, age and adventure. He is an actual historical figure credited with various alchemical feats and with writing an alchemical manuscript entitled "La Tres Sainte Trino Sophie" which is contained in the Bibliotheque de Troyes.

    In 1930, Guy Ballard, having studied theosophical and occult teachings, traveled to Mt. Shasta to investigate rumors that strange occult events occurred there. While hiking the mountain, Ballard claims that the Ascended Master Saint Germain, offered him a magical drink which renewed his body. Ballard founded the "I AM" cult to spread the teachings of the Ascended Masters and Saint Germain. This cult degenerated to the point where members were told to kill their pets and shun family members who wouldn't join the cult. It caused fanatical believers to "decree" for long hours during the day and part of the night, with such intensity and emotionalism that a number of them had nervous breakdowns, or were confined to psychopathic wards and insane asylums.

    In legends and history there have always existed magical men who possess the hidden knowledge. They elude precise description because they seem primarily fictional but are associated with various historical records and documents. They are archetypal and stimulate the imagination. Of those who have actually lived among us, I think that some are human and some are jinn, and most involve partnerships between humans and jinns. They include characters such as: Paracelsus, Koot Hoomi, Master Morya, "Thrice greatest Hermes", Don Juan (in the books by Carlos Castaneda), Sai Baba, Merlin, Ashtar, and St. Germain. Alchemy seems to be their strong suit and the thing that they have in common. I want to tell you about my encounter with so-called Ascended Master St. Germain. Most people won't quite believe it, of course, but that's okay. I tell about it for the benefit of those who do, or who will some day, because entities like this can be really bad news for your spiritual health. I've noticed that folks who come under the influence of the so-called Ascended Masters, Great White Brotherhood, Trans-Himalayan Brotherhood or Galactic Federation seem to display a steady erosion in personal brilliance, character, aptitude and worthwhile effectiveness. There can be a general downgrading that at its worst can result in the likes of Godfrey Ray King making his followers kill their pets. Those who come under the shadow of Ashtar can be reduced to waiting for "global evacuation" when his chosen people will be beamed up to motherships to await their return to the promised land on earth.

    The jinn are masters of alchemy. Maybe we got our teachings about it from them. I encountered St Germain as a result of my interest in alchemy. "Alchemy" describes various arcane areas of knowledge such as the search for longevity and eternal youth, the quest for the Holy Grail and Shambala, the transmutation of base metals into gold and the spiritual transformation which all these symbolize. Alchemy occurs on the physical, spiritual, mental and emotional planes of existence. It is supposed to have been the precursor of chemistry, so modern science is obliged to give it a cursory nod of recognition. Alchemy is real magic and metaphysical technology. It's about transmutations utilizing the etheric plane or about kundalini and transforming the subtle anatomy. It's also about the electromagnetic forces that control the world of form and connect it with the spiritual worlds.

    I never intended to "dabble in the occult". I was attracted to alchemical symbolism at a very young age. I started trying to understand the images of the Rider-Waite Tarot when I was 11. I also read much about psychology then, so it was natural that I would be drawn to CG Jung's work and dream interpretation in my teens. Jung's theories about adult spiritual development, which he called the process of "individuation", were gleaned from his study and understanding of ancient alchemical manuscripts which he read in the original Latin. These cryptic manuscripts were designed to hide the truths they contained, and it is probably proof of Jung's genius that he was able to glean so much from them. I revered Jung at the time and wanted to learn more about alchemy.

    The Temperance card from the Rider-Waite Tarot is mostly about Alchemy. Notice the triangle in the square on the winged entity's chest. Triangles figure prominently in many UFO experiences. Whitley Strieber devoted a whole section to the meaning of the triangle symbol in his book "Communion". On pg. 283 Strieber writes "I came to realize that the Tarot is much more than a deck of fortune-telling cards; it is a sort of philosophical machine that presents its ideas in the form of pictures rather than words." Hey, come to think of it, the whole UFO phenomenon itself could be "a sort of philosophical machine that presents its ideas in the form of pictures rather than words." -- ! Yes, those Jinn-- those ancient mythmakers -- are shaping our consciousness with images of spaceships and extraterrestrials. Whether or not we actually "believe" in them, our collective consciousness is affected by these images in ways we may not yet understand.
    It was the cover of "Communion" that made the book an overnight sensation. Somehow it struck a very deep chord....

    With the passage of years I also learned about quantum physics and the astral and etheric planes. I had kundalini and near death experiences. I experimented with the intelligences of nature in my garden and made flower essences. I meditated, and continued to study the writings of Jung, as well as Swedenborg, Gopi Krishna, Barbara Ann Brennan, Robert Monroe, and many others….I had NO interest in witchcraft or "spiritualism". I never intended to "dabble in the occult", but it now appears that that's exactly what I was getting myself into. "Occult" simply means "hidden". The word has probably become associated with evil influences because of the inherent risk of attracting bad jinn when the hidden worlds are looked into. Whether or not one wants to attract this kind of attention, it can be rather easily aroused. We attract more of whatever we put our conscious awareness into.

    I'd reached a small degree of understanding about how physical reality manifests and is connected to the enduring spiritual planes. Then a friend gave me a book which claimed to channel the wisdom of St. Germain. The alchemical concepts in this new age book were an extension of what I'd been discovering about the electromagnetic spectrum and its connection to the subtle planes, so I readily accepted them. Later that night I awoke to a surprising astral visit from someone claiming to be St. Germain. He told me that my ability to grasp these ideas meant that I'd achieved the level of an initiate and that he would be willing to be my teacher. He outlined some of the wondrous learning which I could potentially master. So there he was in my bedroom, flattering me and making what seemed to be a wonderful offer. What should I do? I told him I didn't yet know how I felt about this, and he said he'd return for my answer.

    Well, fortunately for me, I prayed very hard about what to do in response to his offer. I felt guided to read and meditate upon the "Tablet of the Holy Mariner" written by Bahá'u'lláh, the prophet-founder of the Baha'i Faith. I spent hours prayerfully meditating on the meaning of it it. I finally concluded that it tells the story of a person who acquires the knowledge of all that is "hidden behind the veil''. This person then comes before the throne of God, but is dissatisfied with their station of servitude to the Divine, wanting MORE. (Presumably wanting to be more of a god themselves.) Being thus devoid of sanctity, even in the presence of the All-Loving, the All-Wise, they were "cast down into their abode below".

    The same old story of Lucifer: This is very similar to the story of Lucifer and the never-ending plight of humanity. So this was my St. Germain? Just another perpetrator of the Luciferian drama? Could it become me? YIKES! I took another look at his portrait in the book and was horrified by how debauched he suddenly now looked. That night he returned for my answer. I said: "St. Germain, leave me alone", and he vanished.

    The whole thing seemed so fantastic that I questioned it. Apparitions can share both a real and dreamlike quality. The very next day, however, I had a lunch date with a new friend. I steered our conversation towards the esoteric, hoping to somehow talk about this incredible experience, but it just felt too weird to talk about. Well, it was no mere coincidence that we were having lunch. He suddenly amazed me by mentioning his own relationship with St. Germain! He was entirely nonchalant about it. This guy is a seemingly moderate, level-headed sort of person who had been entrusted with important military positions. My friend thought his relationship with St. Germain was, well-- dandy-- and he wasn't open to other points of view so there wasn't much more to talk about. Outside validation like this went beyond coincidence. I concluded that the St. Germain contact was real.

    Most people think something like this is crazy, which helps protect them from involvement. However, those who have "pulled back the veil" need to be forewarned: Things are probably not what they appear to be if you're dealing with a jinn. There are many types of jinn, but there seems to be almost universal agreement that those who meddle with humans are mischievous or demonic. Humans can be demonic, too. The good/bad continuum is a necessary for the exercise of free-will. Spiritual protection is available for any who ask for help in the Name of God. In Islam, Satan (or Lucifer) is called "Iblis", and is identified as being from the jinn.

    Will the real St. Germain please stand up? Is my "St. Germain" the same as Guy Ballard's or Louis XV's? Probably not. I question whether he's even the same entity who was hanging with my friend. I've had lots of unusual experiences in my life, but they were especially weird during this particular three year period. I've begun to reevaluate these experiences since assimilating the jinn concept into my understanding. I thought I had encountered many different entities, but now I'm wondering if the same entity was wearing several different hats!

    For example, it seems that an entity consistently made the bell on my old fashioned phone make a short "ding!" sound whenever I had particular thoughts. I had been studying the writings of Emmanuel Swedenborg and was consequently given to frequently thinking about his concept of the association of negative spirits with certain activities. Every time I wondered if something had a correspondence with evil the phone would go "ding!". Judging by my phone's responses to my thoughts, evil spirits were lurking just about everywhere!

    One night I was terrorized by this. The minute I began to drift off to sleep the phone went "ding!" This was so alarming that adrenaline pumped into my bloodstream. A strong association had been built up for weeks between this "ding!" sound and my wondering if evil spirits were potentially present, encouraging human negativity and perhaps feeding off of it. The phone would "ding!" the very moment I finally started drifting off to sleep again. The more this happened, the more afraid I became. I was being terrorized! This trick tormented me for hours until I finally overcame my fear of it, at which point it ceased. Probably because it was no longer fun for the jinni if it couldn't make me frightened. At the time I chalked this episode up to being another good learning experience. I'd overcome fear itself, to some extent, and I no longer speculate about evil spirits. If you look for them, they'll be there. Who wants that in their life? Not me-- I'm grateful my home is now so peaceful and safe feeling. I no longer wonder if any entities are around because I can feel that there aren't any--- my current home feels so much different!

    My friend felt he connected with St. Germain because he loved the books by Godfre Ray King who was also known as Guy Ballard. Guy Ballard founded the "I AM" cult to spread the teachings of the Ascended Masters and Saint Germain. This cult degenerated to the point where members were told to kill their pets and shun family members who wouldn't join the cult. Despite their horrible history, cults of "I AM" and the various "Ascended Masters" are still very much alive.

    From Psychic Dictatorship in America: the I AM Movement by Gerald B. Bryan

    One such case is quoted in the letter below written in November, 1937. it is only one of many cases where fanatical I AM-ers have killed their animal pets. We quote: "The phone rang this morning and an I AM-er called and told me that another of Mrs._____'s 100% class was put in a sanitarium last week. It seems that she owned a lovely dog and that they were told there were to be no more dogs. She had the dog electrocuted. Her family resented it so they had her taken to a psychiatrist who analyzed her and of course she did not know when to speak and of what to speak, and started in on the books, and when she was asked why she did not give the dog to __________ , she said, it was just as bad for him to have it as it was for her. Well, they pronounced her insane and put her away last week. God pity them all."

    Some additional results of the Ballard doctrines may be summed up in a few short sentences. It has taught credulous followers to forget everything else but the "Mighty I AM," tending to hold its people in moronic ignorance of what is going on in the world. It has caused fanatical students to "decree" long hours during the day and part of the night, with such intensity and emotionalism that a number of them have had nervous breakdowns, or have been confined to psychopathic wards and insane asylums. It has produced untold mental suffering from fears of cataclysms, entities, black magicians, destructive decrees, and other fear-inspiring bogeys. It has caused students to worship at the shrines of an endless number of mythological gods and heathenish "Masters," instead of teaching a devotion to the One and True God, the Creator of the Universe, of whose grandeur, love, and wisdom there is no end.
    http://www.the7thfire.com/education/IAM-.htm



    Last edited by orthodoxymoron on Tue Dec 28, 2010 10:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Who is Lucifer? What are they doing?

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Mon Dec 27, 2010 10:14 am

    I will continue to passively pursue this topic - but sometimes I wonder if I am either too-easy or too-hard on Lucifer. I think they should be questioned in both respectful and irreverent ways. I mean no harm to anyone - but I think we can do better in this solar system - and this includes me - not just the PTB. If Lucifer decided to do the right thing - and become a good devil - what would they do for fun? It's gotta be a rush - to rush around stirring up all kinds of trouble!

    Perhaps we need some bad good-guys and some good bad-guys - but I don't think we need any bad bad-guys whatsoever. I like good good-guys - but how good is too good? I'm trying to be a good-guy with some rough edges. I like the James Bond and Obi wan Kenobi characters. Perhaps we need to be wise as Lucifer - and harmless as Christ. Sorry if that offends anyone. I really do like the word 'Namaste'. Namaste is one of a small list of Sanskrit words commonly recognized by Non-Hindi speakers. Namaskār (Devnagari/Hindi: नमस्कार) literally means "I bow to [your] form". "I honor the Spirit in you which is also in me." -- attributed to but not claimed by author Deepak Chopra. "I honor the place in you in which the entire Universe dwells, I honor the place in you which is of Love, of Integrity, of Wisdom and of Peace. When you are in that place in you, and I am in that place in me, we are One." "That which is of God in me greets that which is of God in you." "The Divinity within me perceives and adores the Divinity within you." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namaste 'Namaste' gives 'Constitutional Responsible Freedom' an ecumenical spiritual and/or religious twist.

    Lucifer, why don't you just be a James Bond type of being? That would be almost as much fun as raising hell - wouldn't it? James never gets flustered - even in the worst circumstances imaginable - and he never gets his hair messed-up or his fingernails dirty! Lucifer, I suspect that you have changed bodies like most people change clothes - and that you have inhabited prominent male and female bodies - throughout history - with complete reincarnational recall. You have probably moved from adult body to adult body - for thousands of years. You probably haven't had to sleep one wink - for thousands of years. This is all speculation - but this is my story - and I'm sticking to it - for now.
    Lucifer, we need to talk. Toast You know what I'm talking about.


    Last edited by orthodoxymoron on Mon Jan 03, 2011 6:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Mercuriel
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    Re: Who is Lucifer? What are they doing?

    Post  Mercuriel on Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:35 pm

    Check this...

    Last Night while watching these four Videos on the Swedish Twins - At about 3 Minutes into the fourth Video - My Home PC fried Itself...

    All through the Videos - I'd been detailing to My Wife how this seemed to Me that They were on Mission - Thinking Tactically - In pure Survival Mode and using the Cell Phones as they are some of the tools that the Handlers use to Control Manchurian Candidates or Deep Cover Moles.

    I told Her that these Twins hd been Mind Controlled and were showing classsic signs of It. I told Her about how Monarch and MK Ultra Mind Programming compartmentalizes the Mind - Allowing the Creation of Super Soldier Mentality States and how They were exhibiting this behaviour - In Spades. They even get a call on the Expressway from the Mobiles They're carrying.

    I also showed Her the Esoteric Connection in the Mind and how it was professed verbally by the One Twin being held down - "I've seen You Guys before - You're not real" - And while discussing this that part of Our discussion took some of Our attention until the Video got to the Part where Hollinshead went out to get Teabags from the Neighbor.

    At this Point I told My Wife that this Twin had been waiting to gather a Weapon - Hollinshead's absence to get the Teabags was opportunity - And on Mission - She layed in wait for Him to return - Killing Him when He did.

    I then said - "Theres a connection here in Hollinshead's RAF past - Bank on It..." - Then the PC went Poof. Much more I had disclosed to My Wife about the Twins and perhaps We could discusss it here but It was unsual nonetheless...

    Perhaps I hit a Nerve in My understanding eh ?

    cheers

    When this happened - Two days of Graphics work bit the Dust. Please give Me until tomorrow to redo My Graphics and reply as I said I would.

    My apologies Oxy...

    Flowers


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    Namaste...

    Peace, Light, Love, Harmony and Unity...
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    orthodoxymoron

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    Re: Who is Lucifer? What are they doing?

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Wed Dec 29, 2010 2:02 pm

    Sorry about your computer problems, Mercuriel. I hope there was nothing sinister involved in your computer's demise. Perhaps someone gave your computer a cyber poison-cup (containing an incurable virus). I know that my computer is hopelessly infiltrated and subverted - but I take no steps to do anything about it. I really wish to communicate with everyone - including the Jesuits and various Alphabet Agencies. At least those people understand all of this crazy stuff!! I'd almost rather deal with Lucifer, face to face, and try to convert them (The Last Temptation of Satan!!) - rather than deal with people who don't know and don't care. That's a really sad and pathetic statement, isn't it? I'm really trying to be on everyone's side - good and evil - even though this is hopelessly naive - and probably the epitome of stupidity. Hope springs eternal. Would any of you buy a used car from any of these men??
    Lucifer, we still need to talk... Fighters ...about that pesky Great Controversy thing.

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    Re: Who is Lucifer? What are they doing?

    Post  Arcot on Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:37 am

    Hope it will Resolve many Doubts about lucifer
    Let’s suppose you were learning English, you ask me what my name is and I reply my name is “Mr John Smith”.
    Not understanding English you might think my first name is “Mr” my middle name is “John” and my last or surname is “smith”.

    Essentially what has happened is that you have failed to understand that “Mr” is a title which simply means I am a man and is not my first name. This is a simplistic example but it shows how a title can be confused for a person’s name.

    Now let’s look at some more interesting examples:

    Merlin

    King Arthur spiritual adviser a wise man with unusual abilities. Everyone loves to hear tales of Merlin the wizard but “Merlin” was not his name. Merlin is a title which simply means advisor to the king. There have been several Merlin through history and every king had one. “The Merlin” however is not simply an advisor but someone who is thought to posses supernatural ability's.
    There is dispute as to the real name of King Arthur's Merlin, some say his real name was Lailoken and others say Taliesin was his name.
    Queen Elizabeth had a Merlin called “John Dee” who would chart horoscopes for her.
    Today the Dali lama makes use of a Merlin who during an elaborate ceremony goes into a trance and starts to advise the Dali lama on important issues. In modern times it seems strange to us that such advice should be sought by those in power but in antiquity it was quite normal and commonplace.

    Satan

    Ah got your attention, the Christians toes are starting to curl up with the mention of the word and to be honest you think you know what “Satan” is don’t you?
    A malevolent creature of the dark, a deceiver, a prince of darkness, a supernatural entity who wields the force of evil…WRONG!
    Satan is a title which simply means someone who is in disagreement or opposition. If you for example did not agree with or like President Barack Obama it could be said you are a Satan of Obama.
    In 1 Samuel 29:4 David is described as a Satan of the Philistines which simply means David opposed the Philistines.



    The word satan is a Hebrew word which simply means opponent or adversary. When it occurs in the Old Testament, it is usually translated into the English word “adversary”. Sometimes the adversary was an angel or a godly person. For example: * an angel is described as a satan in Numbers 22:22; * David is described as a satan in 1 Samuel 29:4. In both cases, the word satan does not appear in our English Bibles because it has been translated. In 1 Chronicles 21:1, God is described as a satan because he was opposing David. Here the translators chose to leave the word untranslated. In this incident, God was acting as a satan or opponent because he brought about a trial in David’s life. In other passages, the adversary was not a godly person. For example: * Hadad the Edomite and Rezon the king of Syria were satans to Solomon (1 Kings 11:14,23) because they led armies against Israel; * David’s enemies are described as satans in Psalm 38:20. Again, in these cases the word satan has been translated. In Job chapters 1 and 2, the word satan is left untranslated. Satan (the opponent) comes before God and claims that Job is only righteous because he has been blessed. He says that if Job were made to suffer, he would not be so righteous. Then Job suffers a series of disasters including the loss of all his possessions, the death of his ten children and a severe skin disease. It was God who brought about the series of disasters (see Job 2:3; 19:21; 30:21; 42:11; etc.). So, although Satan wanted Job to suffer, it was God who acted on his suggestion. Satan himself did not have the power to do it on his own—God gave him the power. So who is Job’s opponent in this case? We do not know. Whoever Satan was, he was suspicious that Job would not maintain his faith under suffering. After Satan complained to God about Job, God decided to test Job’s faith and righteousness.

    robjhyndman.com...

    Lucifer

    What do you think the word “Lucifer” means?
    Again it is a title and not a name, Lucifer means the “light bearer” as you probably know but what does it mean “a light bearer”?
    The word can be used in two contexts when it is applied to an object or a person but in both contexts it means “one that illuminates”
    During the daylight hours if you scan the sky with your eyes you may be able to see “the day star” which is actually not a star but the planet Venus which reflects the suns light so strongly that it is often the only stellar object other then the sun visible. In this context Venus being one that illuminates or shines brightly could be described as Lucifer which is why this word has become associated with the day star Venus.
    If I said a living entity was Lucifer what would that mean?
    Light has become associated with knowledge in the English language and in other languages. If a person is illuminated or enlightened it literally means they are lit from within. If I at the moment am trying to explain something to you, to make it clearer so you can understand it could be said that I am shedding/casting light on this topic or misunderstanding. Lucifer used in this context means a living entity that illuminates or brings a person into a position of knowing or knowledge.

    Fallen Angel

    Creature with wings who fly’s around surrounded in light bring death, the prince of darkness himself?
    Angel again is a title which means “messenger” but this word is not usually used to describe a common person who comes with a message. These beings are always depicted as being superior to humans and having the ability of flight. In all accounts they are carrying out instructions given to them by a force which is superior to themselves.
    When we describe an object as falling it means it has descended or come down from a higher level. A “Fallen Angel” is therefore a messenger who has descended from above and come down to Earth.

    Devil

    A creature with pointed horns, hooves and a tail with a goatee beard?
    Devil quite simply is an evil spirit however there is not one devil but many devils who operate in the unseen realm of existence. Fear not however for just as there are evil spirits there are good spirits.
    The devil as portrayed by the Christians is actually a good spirit called “the horned one” or Cernunnos god of the forest and guardian of secret knowledge.
    The Christians at that time were taking all the ancient customs and beliefs and branding them evil saying anyone who followed them would be dammed, a PR stunt which would not work today.

    Now with all the above fresh in your mind consider the meaning of the following:

    ????? Was a fallen angel, a Lucifer and a Satan of Elohim!

    ????? was a mortal having both flesh and blood!



    Rev. 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

    If Lucifer is Venus, and Venus is the morning star, and Jesus is saying he, too, is the morning star...

    Also, consider when Jesus was baptized by John, the holy spirit descended on him in the form of a dove. The dove is sacred to (or symbolic of) Venus. Interesting connections.

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    Carol
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    Re: Who is Lucifer? What are they doing?

    Post  Carol on Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:06 am

    Great 1st post Arcot. Welcome. And OXY will be thrilled to have someone to chat with too.


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    With deepest respect ~ Aloha & Mahalo, Carol
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    orthodoxymoron

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    Re: Who is Lucifer? What are they doing?

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Sat Jan 22, 2011 12:34 pm

    Thank-you and welcome Arcot. Lucifer is only mentioned once, by name, in the entire Holy Bible! Satan and the Devil are mentioned in surprisingly few passages - and very little is revealed about them. God is both good and evil in the Bible. I have speculated that we are dealing with minor gods and/or goddesses in history and the Bible. The Creator God of the Universe (with a very large 'G' - seems to be strangely absent). This has caused me to seek a common-sense foundation for politics, religion, church, and state - based upon Responsibility and the U.S. Constitution - namely a Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom United States of the Solar System. I'm not shaking my fist at God (with a large 'G'). I'm simply shaking - especially when I keep hearing about vengeful deities, retribution, extermination, reclaiming 'their' planet, etc. I've just about had it with all of this. I will respond to comments - but I'm really not going to keep posting like I have in the past. All of this seems as though it were a great, big puzzle - which is not meant to be solved. The goal seems to be confusion, misery, punishment, and even extermination. I am more disillusioned and miserable than you can imagine. I just want things to be peaceful and happy for everyone - but I keep hearing the universe laughing behind my back.

    LUCIFER occurs 1 time in 1 verse in the KJV.

    Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [how] art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

    SATAN occurs 56 times in 49 verses in the KJV.

    1Ch 21:1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

    Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
    Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
    Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that [there is] none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
    Job 1:9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
    Job 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath [is] in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.
    Job 2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
    Job 2:2 And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
    Job 2:3 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that [there is] none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.
    Job 2:4 And Satan answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life.
    Job 2:6 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he [is] in thine hand; but save his life.
    Job 2:7 So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.

    Psa 109:6 Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand.

    Zec 3:1 And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.
    Zec 3:2 And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: [is] not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

    Mat 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

    Mat 12:26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?

    Mat 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

    Mar 1:13 And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him.

    Mar 3:23 And he called them [unto him], and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?
    Mar 3:26 And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.

    Mar 4:15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

    Mar 8:33 But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.

    Luk 4:8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

    Luk 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

    Luk 11:18 If Satan also be divided against himself, how shall his kingdom stand? because ye say that I cast out devils through Beelzebub.

    Luk 13:16 And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?

    Luk 22:3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.

    Luk 22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired [to have] you, that he may sift [you] as wheat:

    Jhn 13:27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.

    Act 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back [part] of the price of the land?

    Act 26:18 To open their eyes, [and] to turn [them] from darkness to light, and [from] the power of Satan unto God by faith that is in me.

    Rom 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ [be] with you. Amen.

    1Cr 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

    1Cr 7:5 Defraud ye not one the other, except [it be] with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.

    2Cr 2:11 Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.

    2Cr 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

    2Cr 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

    1Th 2:18 Wherefore we would have come unto you, even I Paul, once and again; but Satan hindered us.

    2Th 2:9 [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

    1Ti 1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

    1Ti 5:15 For some are already turned aside after Satan.

    Rev 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and [I know] the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but [are] the synagogue of Satan.
    Rev 2:13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, [even] where Satan's seat [is]: and thou holdest fast my [was] my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
    Rev 2:24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.

    Rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

    Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

    Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
    Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

    DEVIL occurs 61 times in 57 verses in the KJV.

    Mat 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
    Mat 4:5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
    Mat 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
    Mat 4:11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.

    Mat 9:32 As they went out, behold, they brought to him a dumb man possessed with a devil.
    Mat 9:33 And when the devil was cast out, the dumb spake: and the multitudes marvelled, saying, It was never so seen in Israel.

    Mat 11:18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.

    Mat 12:22 Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw.

    Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

    Mat 15:22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, [thou] Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.

    Mat 17:18 And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour.

    Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

    Mar 5:15 And they come to Jesus, and see him that was possessed with the devil, and had the legion, sitting, and clothed, and in his right mind: and they were afraid.
    Mar 5:16 And they that saw [it] told them how it befell to him that was possessed with the devil, and [also] concerning the swine.
    Mar 5:18 And when he was come into the ship, he that had been possessed with the devil prayed him that he might be with him.

    Mar 7:26 The woman was a Greek, a Syrophenician by nation; and she besought him that he would cast forth the devil out of her daughter.
    Mar 7:29 And he said unto her, For this saying go thy way; the devil is gone out of thy daughter.
    Mar 7:30 And when she was come to her house, she found the devil gone out, and her daughter laid upon the bed.

    Luk 4:2 Being forty days tempted of the devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.
    Luk 4:3 And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.
    Luk 4:5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.
    Luk 4:6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.
    Luk 4:13 And when the devil had ended all the temptation, he departed from him for a season.

    Luk 4:33 And in the synagogue there was a man, which had a spirit of an unclean devil, and cried out with a loud voice,
    Luk 4:35 And Jesus rebuked him, saying, Hold thy peace, and come out of him. And when the devil had thrown him in the midst, he came out of him, and hurt him not.

    Luk 7:33 For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil.

    Luk 8:12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

    Luk 8:29 (For he had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man. For oftentimes it had caught him: and he was kept bound with chains and in fetters; and he brake the bands, and was driven of the devil into the wilderness.)

    Luk 9:42 And as he was yet a coming, the devil threw him down, and tare [him]. And Jesus rebuked the unclean spirit, and healed the child, and delivered him again to his father.

    Luk 11:14 And he was casting out a devil, and it was dumb. And it came to pass, when the devil was gone out, the dumb spake; and the people wondered.

    Jhn 6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

    Jhn 7:20 The people answered and said, Thou hast a devil: who goeth about to kill thee?

    Jhn 8:44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning , and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
    Jhn 8:48 Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?
    Jhn 8:49 Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.
    Jhn 8:52 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.

    Jhn 10:20 And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him?
    Jhn 10:21 Others said, These are not the words of him that hath a devil. Can a devil open the eyes of the blind?

    Jhn 13:2 And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's [son], to betray him;

    Act 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

    Act 13:10 And said, full of all subtilty and all mischief, [thou] child of the devil, [thou] enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?

    Eph 4:27 Neither give place to the devil.

    Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

    1Ti 3:6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
    1Ti 3:7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

    2Ti 2:26 And [that] they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

    Hbr 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

    Jam 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

    1Pe 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

    1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
    1Jo 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

    Jud 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

    Rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast [some] of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

    Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
    Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, [ye] heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

    Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
    Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.



    Last edited by orthodoxymoron on Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:25 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    Arcot

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    Re: Who is Lucifer? What are they doing?

    Post  Arcot on Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:50 pm

    Hi All,
    Another interesting info.

    Murugan-and-the-Lemurian-Garden-of-Eden (Book)

    Google Search

    All Lucifer Teachings Goes back to This Book ,I read it before in scribd but i am not able to find it now in internet Strange it is been removed from scribd
    (This content was removed at the request of The International Order of Gnostic Templars)

    Info About Murugan Son of God Shiva
    http://kataragama.org/

    It is said Lord Murugan or skanda from Lemuria lived in Planet Venus purpose of destroying dangerous Demon soorapadam,
    Demon soorapadam tormented planet Earth for thousands of years, Lord Murugan and his Army of indras Destroyed the demon and stayed back on planet venus to help humanity in their evolution.
    Murugan and his Army was also cast out from heaven for not respecting his father Shiva, this drama was played by GODS so that Dangers Demon should not know that Gods are Planning to Kill him Kind of Gods art of war version (your enemy is my enemy),till Murugan gets near to Demon on Planet Earth
    His army size was 144 indras,who fought against demon not GOD,So as Lucifer and his Army Fought against the Demon not GOD,it took all the Gods help in heaven to destroy this Powerful Demon.

    Lord Murugan symbolized has six pointed star
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muruga
    Madame Blavatsky referred to him has a Lucifer the morning star and also the Albert Pike
    Madam Blavatsky stayed in Tamil Nadu(INDIA) for many years for spiritual enlightenment.
    if you dig deep enough you will find Out.
    Murugan Primal OM symbolize human Face Not skull which is used for sacred purpose in INDIA,check the Link below
    http://homepage.ntlworld.com/hansens/Kuruntogai/Index.htm

    there are many ritual to overcome Fear of death or Deceiver, 1 kanda sashti piercing and 2,waking in Fire (Please Google for more info)Kind of Freemason ritual when joining the brotherhood to overcome fear of death.

    Murugan is the Head of 18 sages in India who achieved light body transfiguration Like Jesus Christ.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siddhar

    There are 18 siddhars in the tamil siddha tradition. They are [4] [5]
    Patanjali Siddhar
    Agasthyar Siddhar
    Sri Kamalamuni Siddhar
    Sri Thirumoolar Siddhar
    Sri Kuthambai Siddhar
    Sri Korakkar Siddhar
    Sri Thanvandri Siddhar
    Sri Konganar Siddhar
    Sri Sattamuni Siddhar
    Sri Vanmeegar Siddhar
    Sri Ramadevar Siddhar
    Sri Nandeeswarar (Nandidevar) Siddhar
    Sri Edaikkadar Siddhar
    Sri Machamuni Siddhar
    Sri Karuvoorar Siddhar
    Sri Bogar Siddhar
    Pambatti Siddhar
    Sundarandandar

    Any further research on this subject might help to figure out Lucifer and human Evolution Light body Transfiguration.
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    Arcot

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    Re: Who is Lucifer? What are they doing?

    Post  Arcot on Sun Jan 23, 2011 5:36 pm

    Any One can Decipher i got those from My friend

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    orthodoxymoron

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    Re: Who is Lucifer? What are they doing?

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:52 pm

    Thank-you for all of the info, Arcot. I am starting to look at it, but I haven't had the time or energy to deal with it properly. As I mentioned previously, the Bible doesn't reveal a helluva lot about Lucifer, Satan, or the Devil. We need to consider ALL sources - and do a lot of reflecting and speculating. I think our quest for the truth is made impossibly difficult, on purpose. I continue to argue for a Responsible Solar System - where the truth is freely revealed - but also where responsible behavior is required. Riotous and sensual living can be responsibly engaged in, I think. I have never done such a thing - but I might try it someday. Presently - I wouldn't know how to have a good time - even if my eternal life depended on it. I wish I were joking.

    What if a harsh theocracy existed in an ancient 'Heaven'? What if this situation existed because of a rebel faction who was manipulating and exploiting the government of 'Heaven'? What if this hypothetical rebel faction instigated a righteous uprising against this hypothetically infiltrated and subverted government of 'Heaven'? What if the rebel faction financed both sides of the 'War in Heaven'? What if all of us were deceived by this rebel faction? What if we continue to be deceived by this rebel faction? Would a Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom United States of the Solar System (as detailed in another thread) be a possible solution to this nightmare? Should this hypothetical rebel faction be rehabilitated or utterly destroyed?

    I wish I didn't have to continue with this fishing expedition. I wish I knew the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. But perhaps 90% of us really and truly cannot handle the truth. I might be part of the 90%. I am 90% crazy, as it is - but not in a dangerous way. It's sort of a controlled craziness, if you know what I mean. Reality is so harsh and confusing, that it might be necessary to treat it as science fiction - and be sort of flippant, sarcastic, irreverent, and crazy - in a very cold and calculating manner. I have decided that Responsibility is the most significant word in the solar system - and that love, positive thinking, self esteem, faith, hope, and whatever - all take their proper and appropriate places - when Responsibility is focused upon. This may be the first, and most significant, step in our quest for truth, freedom, and happiness. First things first. Seek ye first the Kingdom of God, and His righteousness - and all these things shall be added unto you. I think that 90% of the mythologies and theologies are BS - but I still think that theology should be a major part of our quest for the truth. Read the Teachings of Jesus - as you continue to research aliens, ufo's, earth-changes, ancient technology, forbidden archeology, NDE's, OBE's, DUMB's, etc. Check this out. 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_Vz532wUmM&feature=related 2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbewGohciYw&feature=related 3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVaBzBvVaUs&feature=related

    I am really trying to be neutral in all of my internet posting - including this thread. It might not seem like it, at times, but I am moving passively in the direction which I think might approximate at least some of the somewhat hidden truth. If it weren't for the internet, and my insecurity, I wouldn't be doing any of this. I'm really just trying to make sense out of what is already in the public domain. All I am is a repeater, speculator, dot-connector, smart@$$, et al. I continue to be mystified as to why so few humans (and otherwise) are speaking with me. It seems as though I am in a completely different world (or solar system). I think a lot of the visitors to this site could interact with me in a very intelligent manner, but I sense a certain amount of fear and censorship connected with all of this. I think if I knew who or what I was really dealing with, I would never touch a lot of these subjects ever again. Ignorance is Bliss. Absolute Ignorance is Perpetual Orgasm. But if I'm a completely ignorant fool, as Raven has pointed out, why am I not deleriously happy? Why can't we turn this thread into a big science fan-fiction episode? I suggested doing so at the beginning of this MOA thread. I started an online book - but then I got genuinely scared. It seemed way too real. So I stopped. Once again, I apologize if I have hurt anyone with my posting. I probably am a two-faced, back-stabbing sob. So, all of you are probably wise to steer clear of me. Most of you probably know that I'm a bad accident waiting to happen. If I knew what you knew, I'd probably stay away too. Perhaps, if the opportunity presents itself, I should get out of Dodge. But where in the universe does an orthodoxymoron really fit in? Probably nowhere. Perhaps I will burn forever in an eternally burning hell - as an incurably rebellious sinner in the hands of a loving god...

    If you or I were Lucifer - what would we think of the irreverent posting of orthodoxymoron? Would we feel threatened or hurt? Would we be angry - or would we just laugh at the naive innocence? I hate to say it, but I feel guilty regarding my posting. I think that I am too harsh, sarcastic, and unkind. I poke, prod, and post disrespectful pictures. I also feel guilty regarding my gestures of friendship and reconciliation toward Lucifer. So, in a very real sense, I am a two-faced, back-stabbing sob who is dealing with a phenomenon which might be more problematic and volatile than even I can imagine. I'm not going out of my way to be nasty - but I'm not going out of my way to be nice, either. I could be deceived if I were too nice - but I could be zapped if I were too nasty. But really, I think I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing - for better, or for worse - till death do me part...


    Spiritual Luke Fighters Toast
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    orthodoxymoron

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    Re: Who is Lucifer? What are they doing?

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Mon Jul 11, 2011 2:47 pm

    Please keep posting, but I'm going to keep quiet for a while. All good and bad things must come to an end. Recent events, my review of this thread, and the responding comments, lead me to the inescapable conclusion that this thread must end. "End the Thread!!" I need to stop brainstorming, stop speculating, stop whining, stop trying to be funny, stop ranting, stop raving, stop being so sensitive, stop being so superficial, stop poking, stop prodding, stop being narcissistic, and stop doing what I'm doing. I might reemerge, and I might not. I have a lot of growing-up to do before I resume posting, and when I complete the work which I think is necessary, I probably won't be posting on the internet. I feel very sad about a helluva lot of things. I think I might become a lot more cold and calculating, and a lot more capable of handling large amounts of upsetting information, without emotion. But who knows what's going to happen? All I know is that I need to make a tangential change. I've been sleep-posting, but I woke-up today, and it was quite the rude awakening. I feel very sheepish and embarrassed. People have stopped talking to me, one by one, and I can see why. This test is now officially over. The data analysis and extreme makeover now begin. I see clearly what I need to do, and I can't keep posting, and perform the necessary internal work.

    Thank-you once more for your patience, support, and comments. A special thank-you to Carol and Mercuriel, but there are many others. Thank-you all! I continue to worry that I have gotten it seriously wrong, and been too easy or too tough or too sarcastic or too insensitive or too rude or too crude or too timid or too bold or too anal or too radical or too traditional or too socially unacceptable. I am truly sorry for any harm I might've caused, and I am very willing to make changes and retractions as needed. I still don't know who or what I have encountered. I still agree with Raven, that I am a completely ignorant fool, but I think the nature of my thinking, combined with a very real spiritual war, makes me appear to be less intelligent than I really am. I'm probably more of a burned-out fool than anything. When one is intellectually, spiritually, and emotionally burned-out - as well as being profoundly disillusioned - it's hard to be sharp. Life is hard. Especially when you're a completely ignorant zombie. My life is very hard. But I won't stop thinking about Ancient Egypt, the Queen of Heaven, the God of This World, the Monarchy, the Papacy, and the Nazi Party. Please keep posting, but I'm going to keep quiet for a while. What do you think about the 'Holy Tablets'? http://www.themistsofavalon.net/t2867-the-holy-tablets The winged-serpents of Rome and Egypt remind me of the serpent in the Garden of Eden. It seems that we might have reptilian-roots, and that we might've opened a heretical mammalian-reptilian humanoid branch-office here on Planet Earth, and that this has caused alarm throughout the reptilian universal church. What if the chain of command is as follows? (I still don't really know!)

    1. Draconian Reptilian Queen of Heaven.
    2. Hybrid Hermaphrodite God of This World. (who manifests as male, female, black, white, ?????)
    3. Hybrid Elites.
    4. Human Elites.
    5. Human Front-Men and Errand-Boys. (Patriarchy)
    6. The Rest of Us.

    Regardless of Who Rules, and regardless of Past and Present Star Wars, I desire a Perfected Humanity Living in a Perfected Solar System - Without War and Slavery. Earth seems to be a Prison Planet in Rebellion, with Exploitive and Abusive Prison Management. Some of this might be deserved. We might've brought a lot of this madness upon ourselves, but it seems that we have been taken advantage-of, just the same. If the governance modality changes for the better, I worry that we might blow-it, and end up in worse shape than before. This whole situation seems to be very unstable and precarious. I merely seek more idealistic political and religious modalities for managing the insanity. My best answer, so far, is a Theocratically Implemented United States of the Solar System - Centered in Responsibility. Obviously, we are in deep do-do, and all of the options are probably bad, at this point. I'm thinking a lot about Egypt and Reptilians, but I really need to let the sand settle before I proceed. I'll keep reading, while I mostly keep silent. BTW - I still don't have an enemies-list, but I'm working on one. I continue to worry, day and night, about my potential reincarnational role in this madness known as Life on Earth. I am so very sad that I was, and am, so much less than the best of humanity. I hope you all find who, and what, you are looking for. I shall return. Yes, I shall return. But until then, continue with your beliefs, and I shall continue with mine, and prove to me that I am not mistaken. Solar System Without End - orthodoxymoron.


    1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ffu38PcLqA
    2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikTzDjg7qVc&feature=related
    3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDbXeOvGIgE
    4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5685vhoOx8&feature=related
    5. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBO_Aa7PFlc&feature=related
    6. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ji1xPQX9dAY&NR=1&feature=fvwp
    7. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4w-A54h_GQ8&feature=related
    8. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xjnht1k8M7w
    9. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7C8lG9L4XDk&feature=related
    10. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bB28xXEdBGg&feature=related

    geek BEWARE OF THE COMPLETELY IGNORANT PIOUS-ZOMBIE geek



    "THIS IS SAD" "IT MIGHT'VE BEEN" "GERONIMO"

    I just received another love-letter from the Internal Revenue Service. INTERNAL REVENUE??? DOES THIS HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH REVENUE FOR THE UNDERGROUND BASES WHICH ARE NOT UNDER THE DIRECT AND COMPLETE CONTROL OF HUMAN BEINGS WHO ARE PART OF THE LEGITIMATE AND VISIBLE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA? WHAT PERCENTAGE OF OUR TAX MONEY GOES TO GIZEH INTELLIGENCE? I WANT ANSWERS - AND I WANT THEM NOW. REPEAL THE 16TH AMENDMENT - IF IT WAS EVER PROPERLY RATIFIED. ABOLISH THE FEDERAL RESERVE AND THE INTERNAL REVENUE SERVICE - AND INSTITUTE A 5% NATIONAL FEDERAL CONSUMPTION TAX - WITH POINT OF SALE COLLECTION. NO MORE TAX FORMS. IF THERE HAS BEEN ANY ILLEGALITY - WE THE PEOPLE SHOULD EXPECT FULL TAX REFUNDS - WITH PENALTIES AND INTEREST - ALL THE WAY BACK TO 1913. YOU PEOPLE WHO HAVE KNOWN WHAT HAS REALLY BEEN GOING ON REGARDING THE INFILTRATION AND SUBVERSION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA - WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE. JUSTICE WILL BE SERVED. THE TIDE IS TURNING. DON'T GET CAUGHT ON THE WRONG SIDE OF THIS THING.

    JUST FOR REVIEW. 'America - Freedom to Fascism' is probably a good place to begin. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173# 'The Money Masters' is probably a good second video to view. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-515319560256183936# 'Behold a Pale Horse' should probably be included. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2414574348304077734#docid=-7367255331569182231

    You guys and gals have collected a helluva lot of drug-money, blood-money, insider-trading money, tax-money, tithe-money, etc. for corrupt and destructive activities which are hostile to responsible-freedom and the human-race. We don't owe you. You owe us. The judgment is set, and the books are open. The recording angels haven't missed a thing. Be afraid. Be very afraid. Don't think I don't know how much I'm owed. My intention is to use most everything for charitable purposes. That 600 sq. ft. studio apt. will be just fine. We need to talk. Soon. Game Over.

    I have tried to be idealistic and open-minded, but I have seen no evidence of a change for the better. This thing doesn't seem to be over at all. I grew-up with an eschatological worldview, but I'm not seeing a light at the end of the tunnel. I'm seeing nothing but trouble in our future. I really wish to be happy, but I don't expect to ever be happy. Today, I was reading about the atrocities committed during the Second World War, and so many people were involved. It wasn't isolated at all. It could all happen again, and I expect that it will, only with uber-high technology, and the utmost sophistication. But I will stand for the right, though the heavens fall. I am prepared to die before my time, and I expect that I will. I've created too many problems and burned too many bridges.

    It seems that the good, the bad, and the ugly, are deeply involved in deception and dishonesty. No one (or not very many) are really and truly "good". A while back, someone told me that no one was really good, and I thought about it, on a deep level, and realized that they were right in many ways. Godlike or Angelic Righteousness seems to be very, very rare. I don't think the Substitutionary Atonement is the answer. We really do have to just simply be Good. Religious services are a discipline which can help us to be better people, but eating the bread and drinking the wine doesn't get us off the hook. We still have to be Good, as inconvenient and unpleasant as that might be. Bartleby and Loki were onto something, but I obviously disagreed with their methodology. They needed to be Good too! Why is it so goddamn hard to be Good? Why is it so goddamn bad to say 'goddamn'? Does God really give a damn if we say 'goddamn' occasionally and discreetly? I think not. I mean no disrespect whatsoever.

    My computer just got attacked again. We really are under a Theocratic Technocracy, to keep us Uppity Humans under control, aren't we? Crowd Control is probably necessary, but I don't like the manner in which the Irresponsible Warden and Guards are guarding and punishing the Irresponsible Devil's Island Death-Row Prisoners. The Whole Thing Stinks. Again, I don't have a problem with the ethical and proper management of people, planets, and technology. In fact, I insist on it.

    I continue to think that I don't know much about what's really going on. All I can do is consider possibilities and probabilities. Despite my nasty accusations and speculations, I don't know who the good-guys and bad-guys really are. How can one really know, without exhaustive information. I have to keep thinking about idealistic politics and religion, and then do battle with various challenges. So far, there has been very little support or opposition. I'd like to be like President Martinez in 'The Event', but it's a bit late for that. http://www.nbc.com/the-event/video/arrival/1329374 I will continue to think about Solar System Governance because of my insecurity and disillusionment with the bullshit. I think the truth is really, really bad, and I doubt there is a satisfying solution. I feel a horrible sense of dread. I think my ideas on this thread are reasonable, but I fear that the ancient conflicts and universal realities might be impossible to resolve. The rest of my life will probably be hell, and my life after death will probably be an even worse hell. I tend to doubt that I will be allowed to continue to exist in this universe. Perhaps none of us will be allowed to live as Responsible and Free Male and Female Human Beings. To be, or not to be? That is the question.

    One final disclaimer: Take everything I have said, with a sea of salt. I have engaged in a lot of make-believe, role-playing, bluffing, pseudointellectualizing, speculating, posturing, joking, brainstorming, etc. I haven't lied, but I've come close to telling less than the truth. But now the jokes are over, folks. Just kidding! I'm going to just keep reviewing the mess that I've created, and try to create order out of chaos. I continue to think that this has merely been an introduction to insanity, which just scratches the surface of some very deep subjects. Damn! I just got a burn-notice from the God of This World! http://www.hulu.com/watch/252535/burn-notice-company-man#s-p1-so-i0 Wait a minute! I never worked for the God of This World! Oh, you got the notice from your mom? Well, I might've done some work for her in a previous life, but certainly not in this one! I think that burn-notice is from several thousand years ago! I found out that I was black-listed when I got stabbed in the back! I heard "You'll never work in this palace again!" as I lost consciousness! Just kidding! Or am I? What would Isis say?

    I'd love to keep talking about all of the "out of this world" stuff, but it really isn't resonating with anyone, and it certainly isn't doing me any good. Just the opposite. I think I might write a book, but it probably won't resemble this thread. It might be idealistic sci-fi, but I don't really know yet. All I know is that what I'm doing isn't working. Attempting to solve the world's problems seems to be viewed as being a mental-illness and a threat to national-security. If anything changes, you know where I live and work, and you probably have my phone-number. The ball is in your court. Namaste and Geronimo.



    Last edited by orthodoxymoron on Mon Jul 11, 2011 6:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    malletzky

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    Location : on the other side of the mirror

    Re: Who is Lucifer? What are they doing?

    Post  malletzky on Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:57 pm

    So Oxy, are you really above to leave? But is that worth at all?

    I'm trying to understand your points of view in your last post and I can tell you that no matter what, your commitment, your dedication to solve the problems on this earth by establishing another, much more fair governance not only on this planet but also on a brider scale, is really something unique.

    No matter your decission, you should know that your contribution in the last few years has personaly helped me to become what I am today.

    And I wouldn't want to have it some other way, otherwise, something would be missing. And that would be You.

    Much respect my friend, I sincerely hope you'll be around for many other days...

    Mal...
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    orthodoxymoron

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    Re: Who is Lucifer? What are they doing?

    Post  orthodoxymoron on Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:32 pm

    Thank-you malletsky. I've come to the conclusion that I need to let all of this new information settle, and that I need to become a lot more balanced and functional in the 'real-world'. My intention is to study Avalon 1 and Mists of Avalon, and not just my threads. There is a HUGE amount of information to review. I'll also be watching a lot of documentaries on a wide variety of subjects. A book project might be a possibility, but it would probably be a lot different than what I've done so far. There's an old saying 'A Fool Keeps Talking'. Well, I'm a Completely Ignorant Fool Who Needs to Shut-Up. I also think I need to spend a lot more time considering the thoughts of other forum members. I also need to memorize a lot of things, and just reprogram myself. I'll continue to lurk in the shadows, but I need to read a lot more, and talk a lot less. I've sort of become a fanatic, and I think I need to chill. Maybe listening to Alex Jones and Sherry Shriner will help!! I've appreciated all of your thoughts and comments, malletsky. We need more forum members like you. A forum such as this, should have thousands of well-read members. This sort of thing could be a big part of solar system governance. I envision a core of 10,000 full-time representatives, and then maybe 1,000,000 serious volunteer researchers who communicate with the 10,000 on a regular basis. The idea is peer-review, second-guessing, cross-examination, and oversight. But for an enlightened-democracy to work, we need literally hundreds of millions of truly enlightened humans (and other than humans).


    Last edited by orthodoxymoron on Mon Jul 11, 2011 6:52 pm; edited 1 time in total

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